Frontosas in 20 gal
Jamie
I am moving three small (2-3 inch) Frontosas from a 10 gal to a 20 gal (I am
limited to a 20 gal because of apartment rules). I have noticed that the
Frontosas spend the majority of their time in the bottom of the 10 gal. Other
people have told me that this is common for Frontosas. My question is: would
it be better to purchase a 20 gal long (30 in long) than to purchase a 20 gal
tall (about 24 in long). I realize that the tall might be more pleasant to
look at but the long would allow the fish to make better use of the space
since they rarely go into the upper half of the aquarium anyway. Also, would
a single heater and filter be sufficient for the long aquarium?
What are your thoughts on this?
Suzmyers
Jamie wrote:>I am moving three small (2-3 inch) Frontosas from a 10 gal to a 20
A single Frontosa has an expected adult size of 10-14" long. If you are
limited to a 20 gallon tank in your apartment, and even though Frontosa do
grow slowly, a single one will soon outgrow even a 20 gallon long. To be fair
to the fish, IMO you need to trade them at the LFS for some Dwarf Cichlids
which would be happy in your current 20 gallon, or a 20 gallon long. Many
Dwarfs are very beautiful and have interesting breeding habits. There are So.
American and African dwarfs to accomodate most water conditions. I have kept
and enjoyed both, and I'm sure others from this ng would be happy to make
recommendations if you are interested.
Sue
D. Erway
>>>>> "J" == Jamie <sl...@cc.usu.edu> writes:
J> I am moving three small (2-3 inch) Frontosas from a 10 gal to a 20 gal (I
J> am limited to a 20 gal because of apartment rules). I have noticed that
J> the Frontosas spend the majority of their time in the bottom of the 10
J> gal. Other people have told me that this is common for Frontosas. My
J> question is: would it be better to purchase a 20 gal long (30 in long)
J> than to purchase a 20 gal tall (about 24 in long). I realize that the
J> tall might be more pleasant to look at but the long would allow the fish
J> to make better use of the space since they rarely go into the upper half
J> of the aquarium anyway. Also, would a single heater and filter be
J> sufficient for the long aquarium?
J> What are your thoughts on this?
The 20 long would definitely be better. For may cichlids bottom area is far
more important than tank volume. A 30 long would be even better, and probably
no one would ever notice...
The filter & heater requirements are not much effected by tank proportions,
(at least with any proportions you are likely to actually want). A good
single filter, say AquaClear or Whisper, and a sufficiently sized heater will
do fine.
Don Erway derway at ndc.com
NDC Systems 626-939-3847
5314 N. Irwindale Ave Fax:939-3870
Irwindale, CA, 91706
liv2padl
the correct answer is to exchange the Frontosa for some dwarf Tanganyikan
cichlids -- some of the shell dwelling Neolamprologus species such as
brevis or signatus would do well in a 20 gal tank. You cannot keep
Frontosa (12 inches at maturity) in a tank smaller than 55 gal. and three
of them would be better off in a 75.
My question is: would it be better to purchase a 20 gal long (30 in long)
than to purchase a 20 gal tall (about 24 in long). I realize that the
tall might be more pleasant to look at but the long would allow the fish
to make better use of the space since they rarely go into the upper half
of the aquarium anyway. Also, would a single heater and filter be
sufficient for the long aquarium? What are your thoughts on this?
<°){{{{>< <°){{{{>< <°){{{{>< <°){{{{>< <°){{{{>< <°){{{{><
Orly
In article <liv2padl-090...@ecity0-008.dyn.interpath.net>,
liv2...@interpath.com says...
>
>the correct answer is to exchange the Frontosa for some dwarf Tanganyikan
>cichlids -- some of the shell dwelling Neolamprologus species such as
>brevis or signatus would do well in a 20 gal tank. You cannot keep
>Frontosa (12 inches at maturity) in a tank smaller than 55 gal. and three
>of them would be better off in a 75.
I have a better idea... one that I have employed before. Grow the fronts in a
20 or 30 until they hit 4". Then go out and get a larger tank, move them into
it, and proceed with the Tanganyikan dwarf suggestion provided above! See,
there is a way to get necessity to work for you!
Everyone's happy.
Orly
or...@ti.com! There really is no heaven, just
some big lakes in East Africa.
Tom
<GRIN> Just incase you didn't read the original message. It's said_20gal
is max. allowable for that apartment.
Anyway, this is my opinion...get yourself a tropical fish rather than
Afican cichlid. It's much better in such confined space and it's easy
for you to handle in a long run.
--
Tom Hard6, http://www.concentric.net/~thaifarm/
All junk mail are gladly accepted here.
liv2padl
THAT'S HOW I ENDED UP WITH 12 TANKS ;-)
> I have a better idea... one that I have employed before. Grow the
fronts in a
> 20 or 30 until they hit 4". Then go out and get a larger tank, move
them into
> it, and proceed with the Tanganyikan dwarf suggestion provided above! See,
> there is a way to get necessity to work for you!
>
> Everyone's happy.
>
> Orly
>
> or...@ti.com! There really is no heaven, just
> some big lakes in East Africa.
liv2padl
uh, you mean African cichlids aren't "tropical" -- gee, i thought africa
was in the "tropic zone", it's hot as hell there !!
> <GRIN> Just incase you didn't read the original message. It's said_20gal
> is max. allowable for that apartment.
>
> Anyway, this is my opinion...get yourself a tropical fish rather than
> Afican cichlid. It's much better in such confined space and it's easy
> for you to handle in a long run.
> --
>
> Tom Hard6, http://www.concentric.net/~thaifarm/
> All junk mail are gladly accepted here.
joopNO...@ipoline.com
Have you tried adding lots of rocks, all the way to the waterline? It works for
most cichlids which are shy or afraid. Also try creating a ledge using a large
thin rock so that they feel a little more sheltered. Depending on what kind of
frontosa you have, this may or may not work. Some frontosas (ie. Frontosa Zaire)
come from depths of 100m+. If you got a deep water one there probably isn't much
you can do!
The long tanks are nice for younger cichlids, but when they get larger, it seems
somewhat cruel limiting them to a "1-D" world where all they can go is left or
right. By the way: What kind of Frontosa's are they?
I suggest you violate the buildings code, a 20Gallon is peanuts for 3 frontosas.
Jamie wrote:
> I am moving three small (2-3 inch) Frontosas from a 10 gal to a 20 gal (I am
> limited to a 20 gal because of apartment rules). I have noticed that the
> Frontosas spend the majority of their time in the bottom of the 10 gal. Other
> people have told me that this is common for Frontosas. My question is: would
> it be better to purchase a 20 gal long (30 in long) than to purchase a 20 gal
> tall (about 24 in long). I realize that the tall might be more pleasant to
> look at but the long would allow the fish to make better use of the space
> since they rarely go into the upper half of the aquarium anyway. Also, would
> a single heater and filter be sufficient for the long aquarium?
> What are your thoughts on this?
--
----------
Joshua Resnick - IMHO I'm just a beginner!
Remove NOSPAM10Q in email to reply. Thanks For Listening!
Gorak
joopNO...@ipoline.com wrote in message
>I suggest you violate the buildings code, a 20Gallon is peanuts for 3
frontosas.
>
I suggest he checks with his insurance company before violating the rules.
Or with an ethicist. Some of us are concious thet living in society
sometimes asks for some compromises.
Gorak
Orly
In article <352D596D...@ipoline.com>, joopNO...@ipoline.com says...
>Some frontosas (ie. Frontosa Zaire) come from depths of 100m+.
hehe, nice try... I suppose they use portable subs to catch them then huh?
Suggest you read up a bit on Frontosa...
Nathanael Henderson
: >Some frontosas (ie. Frontosa Zaire) come from depths of 100m+.
: hehe, nice try... I suppose they use portable subs to catch them then huh?
Hmm, dynamite tied to rocks with a long fuse? Actually you can get
divers that deep, but not easily (and not on compressed air.) Perhaps
long-line fishing would be within the realm of possibility to CATCH a
fish, but the fish would die on the way up as the air in its swim bladder
expanded under the decreasing water pressure. *shrug*
Nathan H.
joopNO...@ipoline.com
Actually, about the swim bladder, Nathanael is probably right as there is dissolved
gas in this organ. But the diver (who carries more gas) would explode before our
lovely Frontosa Zaire would, so as long as he (or she) makes it, the fishes would
too.
> Nice polemic Nathanael!!!
>
> Actually, they do send divers past 100m+. For those who know not on the
> subject, it is called deco-diving. Decompression results from absorbing more
> nitrogen than the body can resonably eliminate upon resurfacing. Consequently,
> divers must stop at various points of the dive to "offload" excessive nitrogen.
> In a properly planned dive, by a somewhat looney diver (believe me there are A
> LOT of crazy divers) it is not a problem to go to 110-120m. I know, because I
> have an advanced+ PADI certification, and because I went to 97m at the Blue Hole
> in Dahab, Egypt (That was my deepest dive, which lasted 7minutes (my tank
> zeroed), before a 15 minute decompression at 30m on a second tank of air).
> [Please note, to all those who may work at PADI, I will never, never, never do
> that again.]
>
> As for the exploding swim bladder. May I ask you what the bladder is filled
> with, a gas or a liquid?
>
> Liquid, right?
>
> And for those who haven't taken Grade 9 science - Liquids require tremendous
> pressures to compress even slighty. Right?
>
> Care to revise your opinion about the exploding swim bladder?
>
> By the way, Frontosa Zaire, will cost roughly $100-300 if you can find one, a
> fact that reflects the effort and danger a diver endures to place one of these
> suckers in one of our tanks.
>
> Rez...@hotmail.com
joopNO...@ipoline.com
Orly
In article <3532C7C3...@ipoline.com>, joopNO...@ipoline.com says...
>
>Actually, about the swim bladder, Nathanael is probably right as there is
>dissolved gas in this organ. But the diver (who carries more gas) would
>explode before our lovely Frontosa Zaire would, so as long as he (or she)
>makes it, the fishes would too.
Josh,
Frontosa are acclimated from the depths in various ways, all of which seem to
be employed to allow the diver to come up and continue working, while the fish
are slowly ascended from the depths.
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk
On 14 Apr 1998 16:27:22 GMT, or...@ti.com! (Orly) wrote:
>
>Josh,
>
>Frontosa are acclimated from the depths in various ways, all of which seem to
>be employed to allow the diver to come up and continue working, while the fish
>are slowly ascended from the depths.
>
>Orly
Some say frontosa aren't always found in deep water. According a
friend of mine, who has spent a lot of time diving in Zaire, frontosa
can be found above 10 meters while it's still dark. I remember reading
something about early morning feeding in shallow water but I have
forgotten where. I've always been a bit skeptical about shallow water
frontosa but it may be true.
BTW Orly, I found some of that malt you recommended.
Steve
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Wolstenholme: Neural Network Software
Neural-Planner NeuroDiet EasyNN
http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk
Beverly Erlebacher
In article <3532C481...@ipoline.com>,
joopNO...@ipoline.com <joopNO...@ipoline.com> wrote:
>
>As for the exploding swim bladder. May I ask you what the bladder is filled
>with, a gas or a liquid?
>
>Liquid, right?
No, it's full of gas, basically air.
I've read an account by Pierre Brichard about diving for frontosas in
Lake Tanganyika. They come from sufficient depth that the divers have
to wait at at least one stage to decompress. At first they had problems
with the fish dying from the effects of rapid decompression within a
day or two of capture, apparently due to nitrogen bubbles (bends in
humans). They started putting the captured fish in cages attached to
ropes and bringing them up over a period of hours to avoid this problem.
I don't know how deep these dives were, but 100-120 feet sounds reasonable.
Lake Tang is a very deep lake, but below a few hundred meters it is anoxic
and fishless. Tropical lakes don't turn over like lakes in temperate climates
do.
Orly
In article <3533907d.1546430@news>, st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk says...
>BTW Orly, I found some of that malt you recommended.
Ah yes, what do you think? One of my favorites to date, and that is without
regard to cost. I have enjoyed $300 malts that are not as smooth as that one,
at least not in the long haul.
joopNO...@ipoline.com
I'm glad the issue surrounding frontosas, mini-subs, sticks of dynamite,
deco-diving, and exploding swim-bladders is finally resolved... Now what was that
about apartment regulations and 20g tanks? ; p
Orly wrote:
> In article <3532C7C3...@ipoline.com>, joopNO...@ipoline.com says...
> >
> >Actually, about the swim bladder, Nathanael is probably right as there is
> >dissolved gas in this organ. But the diver (who carries more gas) would
> >explode before our lovely Frontosa Zaire would, so as long as he (or she)
> >makes it, the fishes would too.
>
> Josh,
>
> Frontosa are acclimated from the depths in various ways, all of which seem to
> be employed to allow the diver to come up and continue working, while the fish
> are slowly ascended from the depths.
>
> Orly
>
> or...@ti.com! There really is no heaven, just
> some big lakes in East Africa.
--
Vantak
"Durango" Dave wrote:
> >I'm glad the issue surrounding frontosas, mini-subs, sticks of dynamite,
> >deco-diving, and exploding swim-bladders is finally resolved... Now what
> was that
> >about apartment regulations and 20g tanks? ; p
>
> 20gals * 8lbs/gal = 160 lbs. Ask the manager if he forbids fat people,
> bathtubs, water beds, pianos, ancient hide-a-beds, etc from the complex. If
> management is paranoid about water damage, well, time to look for some new
> digs...
>
>
Most apartments won't let you have anything greater than 20 gallons, and
that's due to the threat of water damage. Alll of the apartments that I've lived
in (and the one that I currently live in) only allowed 20 gallon tanks max.
However, this hasn't stopped me from having three tanks over 40 gallons (40gal,
50gal, and 60gal). Ethical purists feel free to shred me, I don't care. The
bitter irony of what you said Dave, is that apartments don't say anything about
waterbeds, which have more water capacity than my largest tank, wieghs alot
more, and the only thing that holds the water in is a thin layer of plastic, not
3/8 in. of glass.
Best Regards,
John
--
Who pee'd in your wheaties?
e-mail: vantak.d...@mediaone.net
(remove the diespamdie to email)
Nathanael Henderson
: >dissolved gas in this organ. But the diver (who carries more gas) would
: >explode before our lovely Frontosa Zaire would, so as long as he (or she)
: >makes it, the fishes would too.
You missunderstand the diving physics involved. The diver's lungs
would explode and kill him *if* he held his breath all the way up--as
long as the diver keeps breathing the pressure in his lungs will stay
equalized to the surrounding water pressure. The fish doesn't have an
easy way to quickly vent air from their swim bladders. (At least most
don't--I expect the species that use it as an auxiliary breathing
mechanism could easily release the excess air.) It's a common practice
with collecting deep reef fish to use a syringe to vent air from their
swim bladders on the way up.
Nathan H.
Tom
When I was a kid, still in my country, I usually do fish'g at night if I want to
catch deep water fish or certained predatory fish and believe it or not, the harder
it can be cought the greater it taste. Never know why...
After read some of the thread, I still can't figure out of how do they actually
catch them "front's" in large quantity. Send a diver down with a giant net or
something ? Anyone know ?
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk wrote:
> On 14 Apr 1998 16:27:22 GMT, or...@ti.com! (Orly) wrote:
>
> >
> >Josh,
> >
> >Frontosa are acclimated from the depths in various ways, all of which seem to
> >be employed to allow the diver to come up and continue working, while the fish
> >are slowly ascended from the depths.
> >
> >Orly
>
> Some say frontosa aren't always found in deep water. According a
> friend of mine, who has spent a lot of time diving in Zaire, frontosa
> can be found above 10 meters while it's still dark. I remember reading
> something about early morning feeding in shallow water but I have
> forgotten where. I've always been a bit skeptical about shallow water
> frontosa but it may be true.
>
> BTW Orly, I found some of that malt you recommended.
>