Is bologna bad the feed cichlids?
R-...@webtv.net
Could someone please tell me if bologna is bad for cichlids? I have
hear of pork chops being feed to them when they get so big but how about
bolonna?
liv2padl
balogna is full of preservative chemicals like nitrites, sulfites and
more...bologna is not good for you let alone your fish.
M&L Garner
>Could someone please tell me if bologna is bad for cichlids? I have
>hear of pork chops being feed to them when they get so big but how about
>bolonna?
Most bologna has a lot of fat. Probably not too good for the fish if they get too much. Might
make an oily mess of the water, too.
Lisa Garner (remove the z to email)
E.M. Ennis
R-...@webtv.net wrote:
: Could someone please tell me if bologna is bad for cichlids? I have
: hear of pork chops being feed to them when they get so big but how about
: bolonna?
Hmmm...Why do you think it's called OSCAR Mayer? :)
-Erin...
--
=========================
Mr. Erin M. Ennis |
**see below to reply** |
eennis(at)zoo,uvm,edu |
Water Resources Major, |
Uni. of Vermont |
=========================
Mike Hanlon
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:41:11 -0400, R-...@webtv.net wrote:
>Could someone please tell me if bologna is bad for cichlids? I have
>hear of pork chops being feed to them when they get so big but how about
>bolonna?
I wouldn't bother. Bologna may contain a lot of other fillers that may
not be suitable to your cichlids. Beef heart and beef liver work good
usually. Make sure you clean it thoroughly though.
Remove *SPAMBLOCK*from E-mail address to reply.
Check out CICHLID-MANIA -
http://www.escape.ca/~mhanlon/cichlidmania.html
Philip Deitiker
liv2...@interpath.com (liv2padl) wrote:
>balogna is full of preservative chemicals like nitrites, sulfites and
>more...bologna is not good for you let alone your fish.
major ditto there.
Philip
(No spam: *.com => *.edu)
Stuart Pauker
Somehow or another I managed to fare pretty well and I grew up eating
bologna. Now, not only shouldn't people eat it, but it's too unsafe for
our fish??!! This sounds as insane as those people who were saying that
we shouldn't use windex to clean the outside of our tanks because it
would somehow adversely affect our fish. Now, I'm not suggesting that
bologna is *good* for fish - although I have fed my Oscars hot dogs in
the past - but to say that it's bad for them because there are too many
preservatives is a little silly. Do you really think that hot dogs are
more contaminated than fish food? I don't even want to think what's
*really* contained in the fish food I purchase. I know what's inside
food *fit* for human consumption and that's bad enough. So, give your
Oscar some bologna on occasion but realize that the greatest danger is
not the preservatives in it, but what it's going to do to your water
quality.
Stuart
mailto:sb...@columbia.edu
Stuart Pauker
Philip Deitiker wrote:
>
> Stuart Pauker <sb...@Columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> >Philip Deitiker wrote:
> >>
> >> liv2...@interpath.com (liv2padl) wrote:
> >>
> >> >balogna is full of preservative chemicals like nitrites, sulfites and
> >> >more...bologna is not good for you let alone your fish.
> >>
> >> major ditto there.
> >>
> >> Philip
> >> (No spam: *.com => *.edu)
>
> >Somehow or another I managed to fare pretty well and I grew up eating
> >bologna. Now, not only shouldn't people eat it, but it's too unsafe for
> >our fish??!! This sounds as insane as those people who were saying that
> >we shouldn't use windex to clean the outside of our tanks because it
> >would somehow adversely affect our fish.
>
> would be very careful using it around an african ciclid tank.
Right, don't spray it into the tank. Doh!
> > Now, I'm not suggesting that
> >bologna is *good* for fish - although I have fed my Oscars hot dogs in
> >the past - but to say that it's bad for them because there are too many
> >preservatives is a little silly. Do you really think that hot dogs are
> >more contaminated than fish food?
>
> I have carefully examined the ingredients listed in some of the foods
> and while some are not very pallitable (like alfalfa) most are of good
> quality.
Are you sure you know what the *quality* is or do you just know what the
listed ingredients are. There's a difference.
> > I don't even want to think what's
> >*really* contained in the fish food I purchase. I know what's inside
> >food *fit* for human consumption and that's bad enough. So, give your
> >Oscar some bologna on occasion but realize that the greatest danger is
> >not the preservatives in it, but what it's going to do to your water
> >quality.
>
> There was a study recently which concluded that children fed large
> amounts of hot dogs have a 3 to 4 times higher chance as adults of
> liver, stomach and intestinal cancer. I wouldn't know because my GI
> system always recognizes these as toxins and responds in the
> appropriate manner <barf>.
Anything in excess can probably be bad for you, including sunglight and
water. I never said, in any event, that bologna and hot dogs are health
food. BTW, you have a very smart stomach - mine just says: Give me more!
> I am now of the mind, because of the
> correlation of my GI tract response and the foundation of carcinogens
> that anything that my GI recognizes as a toxin is probably a toxin.
> Thus bologna, hod dogs, many sausages, most sandwich meats are
> definitely off the list of things to eat. In your case, you probably
> don't have the senstivity trait and thus you have a more adaptable
> pallet, and selection/evolutionarily you'de probably grow faster than
> I do; however, you have increased risk for premature life threatening
> pathology.
I've got an increased risk for a lot of things, but I thought we were
talking about the suitability of bologna for fish and not my heart, and
other, disease risk factors. But as long as we are talking of risk
factors let's make it clear that many people who are under stress from
baseless worrying about spraying Windex on the outside of their fish
tanks and whether a piece of bologna given, on occassion, to a
carnivorous fish will somehow harm the fish because of the preservatives
contained within it, are probably at a greater risk than us foolish
people who dare to eat hot dogs once in a while.
> As far as the fish food is concerned I see no ingredients which
> alarm me. What one needs though is not some, "I'll eat anything you
> throw in front of me (human or fish)" but a fish which is finicky,
> like discus, I have found a handful of foods which they will tolerate,
> on is the tetra bits, other is fresh defatted beef heart, and third is
> Hikair lionhead gold fish food (the aranda food is good but conatins
> air but gives the fish gas).
Like father, like fish. :) BTW, what about all those hormones and
antibiotics in the beef heart?
> My juvenile fish prefer the hikari and
> its great for putting growth, and I might add that it almost smells
> edible.
>
> There are implications I don't think are appropriate to discuss
> here, but needless to say, feeding your fish junk food will allow you
> to more frequently rotate the variety of animals you keep, as a side
> benefit.
> Philip
> (No spam: *.com => *.edu)
As it happens, I provide my fish with a balanced diet. I don't feed
bologna or hot dogs(although I used a hot dog once)not because they have
some preservatives in them, but because they're going to wreak havoc
with my water quality. To suggest that a piece of bologna is unfit for
fish consumption, despite being something which millions of people eat
every day, just seems a little anal retentive to me. Well, I could be
wrong. I might have doomed my fish to a miserable disease-ridden death
because of the hot dog I thoughtlessly gave them a couple of years ago.
-Stuart
Russell B Klein
On 23 Sep 1997 04:02:02 GMT, een...@gnu.uvm.edu (E.M. Ennis) allegedly
wrote:
>R-...@webtv.net wrote:
>: Could someone please tell me if bologna is bad for cichlids? I have
>: hear of pork chops being feed to them when they get so big but how about
>: bolonna?
>
>Hmmm...Why do you think it's called OSCAR Mayer? :)
Because with blogna, many times you have no idea what it is made out
of, so it could conceivably have pieces of oscars in it? Sorry.
Couldn't resist the bad joke. ;-)
> -Erin...
Russ Klein - "remember the day the country died"
/SUB/ /HUM/ /ANS/
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~rklein
LOCKEroots
>>Hmmm...Why do you think it's called OSCAR Mayer? :)
>-Erin.
Now that was funny Erin ! :)
Philip Deitiker
Stuart Pauker <sb...@Columbia.edu> wrote:
>Philip Deitiker wrote:
>>
>> liv2...@interpath.com (liv2padl) wrote:
>>
>> >balogna is full of preservative chemicals like nitrites, sulfites and
>> >more...bologna is not good for you let alone your fish.
>>
>> major ditto there.
>>
>> Philip
>> (No spam: *.com => *.edu)
>Somehow or another I managed to fare pretty well and I grew up eating
>bologna. Now, not only shouldn't people eat it, but it's too unsafe for
>our fish??!! This sounds as insane as those people who were saying that
>we shouldn't use windex to clean the outside of our tanks because it
>would somehow adversely affect our fish.
Windex contains ammonia, which is toxic around fish at high pH, I
would be very careful using it around an african ciclid tank.
> Now, I'm not suggesting that
>bologna is *good* for fish - although I have fed my Oscars hot dogs in
>the past - but to say that it's bad for them because there are too many
>preservatives is a little silly. Do you really think that hot dogs are
>more contaminated than fish food?
I have carefully examined the ingredients listed in some of the foods
and while some are not very pallitable (like alfalfa) most are of good
quality.
> I don't even want to think what's
>*really* contained in the fish food I purchase. I know what's inside
>food *fit* for human consumption and that's bad enough. So, give your
>Oscar some bologna on occasion but realize that the greatest danger is
>not the preservatives in it, but what it's going to do to your water
>quality.
There was a study recently which concluded that children fed large
amounts of hot dogs have a 3 to 4 times higher chance as adults of
liver, stomach and intestinal cancer. I wouldn't know because my GI
system always recognizes these as toxins and responds in the
appropriate manner <barf> . I am now of the mind, because of the
correlation of my GI tract response and the foundation of carcinogens
that anything that my GI recognizes as a toxin is probably a toxin.
Thus bologna, hod dogs, many sausages, most sandwich meats are
definitely off the list of things to eat. In your case, you probably
don't have the senstivity trait and thus you have a more adaptable
pallet, and selection/evolutionarily you'de probably grow faster than
I do; however, you have increased risk for premature life threatening
pathology.
As far as the fish food is concerned I see no ingredients which
alarm me. What one needs though is not some, "I'll eat anything you
throw in front of me (human or fish)" but a fish which is finicky,
like discus, I have found a handful of foods which they will tolerate,
on is the tetra bits, other is fresh defatted beef heart, and third is
Hikair lionhead gold fish food (the aranda food is good but conatins
air but gives the fish gas). My juvenile fish prefer the hikari and
Stuart Pauker
Philip Deitiker wrote:
>
> Stuart Pauker <sb...@Columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> >Philip Deitiker wrote:
> >>
> >> Stuart Pauker <sb...@Columbia.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Philip Deitiker wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> liv2...@interpath.com (liv2padl) wrote:
> >> > I don't even want to think what's
> >> >*really* contained in the fish food I purchase. I know what's inside
> >> >food *fit* for human consumption and that's bad enough. So, give your
> >> >Oscar some bologna on occasion but realize that the greatest danger is
> >> >not the preservatives in it, but what it's going to do to your water
> >> >quality.
> >>
> >> There was a study recently which concluded that children fed large
> >> amounts of hot dogs have a 3 to 4 times higher chance as adults of
> >> liver, stomach and intestinal cancer. I wouldn't know because my GI
> >> system always recognizes these as toxins and responds in the
> >> appropriate manner <barf>.
>
> >water. I never said, in any event, that bologna and hot dogs are health
> >food. BTW, you have a very smart stomach - mine just says: Give me more!
>
> things which are not even good at any level. For example, ethidium
> bromide is something that cannot be tolerated even at very low doses.
> Sunlight has an optimal dose, depending on ones latitude, as with
> water, I don't know that there is any optimal dose for many
> carcinogens generated in some fo the foods we eat. There may be a
> tolerable dose, a level of ingestion which is in balance with the
> bodies ability to quickly detoxify the subnstances. Thus instead of
> haing a sinosoidal dose versus response curve the positive response
> for some substance is 100% at 0 and shortly after drug crosses
> threshold level. Such a response is qualified by the LD50, which data
> comes from rats and can be defined in terms of short term observations
> (one or two weeks vs. several years). For example, I can give so much
> of a carcinogen in a single dose that it resembles radiation sickness
> produced by an atomic bomb. When I reach the dose in which half the
> treated die that dose becomes the LD50. However, if the toxin is
> administers in tiny doses over a long period one then has to define
> the affect of the toxin in terms of how long it shortens ones life.
> Eating 2 hot dogs every day might be as bad as smoking 2 packs of
> cigarettes a day, or eating 5 eggs for breakfast every morning all of
> ones life.
> Now suppose that your a stone-age hunter gatherer with an average
> life expectancy of a mature adult of 37 years. You aint gonna have to
> worry about most cancers, heart disease. Thus you could probably wake
> up every day smoke a pack of cigarettes, eat your five ostrich eggs,
> smoke another pack before eating a flaming scourched hot dog for lunch
> and dinner and then retiring, because its that fellow on the other
> side of the mountain who is practiced at spear throwing who is gonna
> releive you of the burden of your 38th birthday.
>
> >> I am now of the mind, because of the
> >> correlation of my GI tract response and the foundation of carcinogens
> >> that anything that my GI recognizes as a toxin is probably a toxin.
> >> Thus bologna, hod dogs, many sausages, most sandwich meats are
> >> definitely off the list of things to eat. In your case, you probably
> >> don't have the senstivity trait and thus you have a more adaptable
> >> pallet, and selection/evolutionarily you'de probably grow faster than
> >> I do; however, you have increased risk for premature life threatening
> >> pathology.
>
> >talking about the suitability of bologna for fish and not my heart, and
> >other, disease risk factors.
>
> they are effective is because they resist the growth of microbes (i.e.
> life), many do this by inhibiting growth substances, these may
> directly affect DNA replication or react inside the microbes cells
> creating agents which are mutagenic. I think this is the case with
> many cured meats because the preservatives lead to the formation of
> nitrosamines which are _general carcinogens_ (i.e. bacteria, yeast,
> plants, vertebrates, etc.). Some animals have compensatory mechanisms,
> for example it has been found that crusteceans in the hudson river
> have evolved to produce higher 'garbage burning' cytochrome p450
> systems which allow them to live in water where which is undrinkable
> and where fish cannot survive. Thus, although there are some
> substances which are specifically toxic to a narrow group of animals
> many are general. As for the nitrosamines, given the fact that humans
> and proto-humans had been cooking with fire for the last 500,000
> years, if any animal would have evolved tolerance it would be
> ourselves. Thus, in the case of your fish which live in water with
> expected low concentrations, they would require time to evolve
> tolerance.
>
> > But as long as we are talking of risk
> >factors let's make it clear that many people who are under stress from
> >baseless worrying about spraying Windex on the outside of their fish
> >tanks and whether a piece of bologna given, on occassion, to a
> >carnivorous fish will somehow harm the fish because of the preservatives
> >contained within it, are probably at a greater risk than us foolish
> >people who dare to eat hot dogs once in a while.
>
> >> alarm me. What one needs though is not some, "I'll eat anything you
> >> throw in front of me (human or fish)" but a fish which is finicky,
> >> like discus, I have found a handful of foods which they will tolerate,
> >> on is the tetra bits, other is fresh defatted beef heart, and third is
> >> Hikair lionhead gold fish food (the aranda food is good but conatins
> >> air but gives the fish gas).
>
> >antibiotics in the beef heart?
>
> steroid hormones are in highest concentration in the fat. Antibiotics
> are not much of a concern since they are generally microbe specific.
> Antibiotics tend to concentrate in the liver anyway, not the heart. I
> switched from beef heart because a certain perentage of fish would die
> from impacted bowel as a result of a fiber free diet. As a result I
> began looking for more balanced diet, particualrly one which the fish
> would accept very young and would tolerate well as adults.
>
> >> My juvenile fish prefer the hikari and
> >> its great for putting growth, and I might add that it almost smells
> >> edible.
> >>
> >> There are implications I don't think are appropriate to discuss
> >> here, but needless to say, feeding your fish junk food will allow you
> >> to more frequently rotate the variety of animals you keep, as a side
> >> benefit.
>
> >bologna or hot dogs(although I used a hot dog once)not because they have
> >some preservatives in them, but because they're going to wreak havoc
> >with my water quality. To suggest that a piece of bologna is unfit for
> >fish consumption, despite being something which millions of people eat
> >every day, just seems a little anal retentive to me. Well, I could be
> >wrong. I might have doomed my fish to a miserable disease-ridden death
> >because of the hot dog I thoughtlessly gave them a couple of years ago.
>
> in a garage and wash your hands with petro like people used to do the
> outcome can be very different. I don't think a single feeding will
> kill any animal; however, I wouldn't make'm a stable of any animals
> diet (fish or otherwise) unless the goal is to develop new mutant
> strains of fish. No, you don't have to fell guilty about feeding once
> a hot dog, unless of course you found that later that nigth he coughed
> it into the corner, then you'de be guilty of bad taste.
The only thing I'm guilty of is bad judgment for getting into a debate
about hot dogs and bologna.
-Stuart
mailto:sb...@columbia.edu
Philip Deitiker
Stuart Pauker <sb...@Columbia.edu> wrote:
BTW, if a substance is so fatty that you worry about it clouding your
water, think about what it does to your blood stream. There is a
solution every time you eat a hot dog eat about a pound of saw dust
that way the cellulose will absorb the chemicals and fat.
Brent A. Blomquist
My cichlids love a hot pastrami with extra mustard!!
Russell B Klein
>My cichlids love a hot pastrami with extra mustard!!
Do you throw in a little bit of cream soda to quench their thirst?
;-)
Ilan ashkenazi
If you don't want an infestation of parasites, and fucked up water, I woud
advised only raw meat as a dietary supplement.
Russell B Klein wrote in message <342d7c9b....@news.buffalo.edu>...
Ilan ashkenazi
Russell B Klein wrote in message <342d7c9b....@news.buffalo.edu>...
>On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:32:38 -0700, "Brent A. Blomquist"
><andr...@skylink.net> allegedly wrote:
>
>>My cichlids love a hot pastrami with extra mustard!!
Only use raw meat, or E-mail me at ash...@ibm.net