Pregnant Cichlid dies - what did we do wrong?
W. John Guineau
We had what I believe was a pregnant Ps. Zebra. (see the last 2
pictures on my web page for good images of her).
She started getting bigger by the day for a couple weeks. A male
Red Zebra was staying very close to her. In the last week or so, both
stopped eating and the male had staked out a territory in some plants
where he would not leave.
She seemed fine up until several days ago. Then I noticed she had
tucked into a corner and wasn't moving. I figured we were getting
close! Then one morning she was upside down. The male still close
by, not moving from his spot a few inches away and, not eating. We
left her for a couple days but she never moved. I was hoping it was
a phase of the pregnancy but she appeared dead. So I carefully nudged
her with my hand and she just floated about - dead. We removed
her from the tank.
Now the male has been sulking and still not eating. He has remained in
his staked out area for a few days now and we are worried he is not
going to make it. He seems very upset at the whole thing. He waits
at their area as if hoping she will return... The other cichlids
periodically nudge him from the area. They don't chase or attack him,
they just seem to be trying to get him out and active again. I'm
continually amazed at the show of awareness and emotion by these
fish!
Any ideas on what went wrong?
thanks for any help!
john
--
W. John Guineau gui...@ultranet.com
Brookline, NH
http://www.ultranet.com/~guineau
W. John Guineau
gui...@ultranet.com (W. John Guineau) wrote:
>
>We had what I believe was a pregnant Ps. Zebra. (see the last 2
>pictures on my web page for good images of her).
>
<snip>
I've added 2 more pictures to the web page of the male
red zebra I spoke of in the article.
W. John Guineau
Cich Fish
Dear John,
I'm afraid you've made two serious mistakes in your observations of your
fish.
First thing: MALAWI CICHLIDS DON'T FORM PAIRS & DON'T
CARE HOW THEIR NEIGHBORS FEEL (EMOTIONALLY).
Second thing: MALAWI CICHLIDS DON'T "GET PREGNANT"
THE WAY LIVEBEARERS DO. YOUR FISH LOOK PREGNANT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A
TERRIBLE DISEASE (about the only disease Malawis can get) WHICH IS
COMMONLY CALLED "BLOAT". Your fish aren't sad...they're ILL.
The first thing you need to do is separate any individuals who show
signs of not eating (Malawis should be ravenous always...except
when a female is holding young or eggs in her mouth) and treat the
isolation tank(s) with a medicine called Metronidazole (also known as
Flagil, Hex-A-mit, and other names) daily for at least 6 days (retreat
daily after 80%
water change.)
The next thing you need to do is become aware of your aquarium
parameters...and take steps to correct if the following conditions are not
met.
MALAWI CICHLIDS NEED
no food other than GREEN SPIRULINA FLAKE FOOD
WASHED ROMAINE LETTUCE
GREEN ALGAE
pH above 7.5
hard water w/minerals such as Epsom Salt or Sea salt
0.0 ammonia
0.0 nitrite
low nitrate
(filtering well & doing frequent partial water changes
should take care of the above 3 problems)
---Ned Bowers Uncle Ned's Fish Factory, Inc.
Simon Doherty
cich...@aol.com (Cich Fish) wrote:
>Dear John,
>I'm afraid you've made two serious mistakes in your observations of your
>fish.
> First thing: MALAWI CICHLIDS DON'T FORM PAIRS & DON'T
>CARE HOW THEIR NEIGHBORS FEEL (EMOTIONALLY).
> Second thing: MALAWI CICHLIDS DON'T "GET PREGNANT"
>THE WAY LIVEBEARERS DO. YOUR FISH LOOK PREGNANT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A
>TERRIBLE DISEASE (about the only disease Malawis can get) WHICH IS
>COMMONLY CALLED "BLOAT". Your fish aren't sad...they're ILL.
> The first thing you need to do is separate any individuals who show
>signs of not eating (Malawis should be ravenous always...except
>when a female is holding young or eggs in her mouth) and treat the
>isolation tank(s) with a medicine called Metronidazole (also known as
>Flagil, Hex-A-mit, and other names) daily for at least 6 days (retreat
>daily after 80%
>water change.)
> The next thing you need to do is become aware of your aquarium
>parameters...and take steps to correct if the following conditions are not
>met.
> MALAWI CICHLIDS NEED
>no food other than GREEN SPIRULINA FLAKE FOOD
> WASHED ROMAINE LETTUCE
> GREEN ALGAE
Uh... What about the fish eating Malawian cichlids (wish I could spell
piscivore). They require a significant amounts of live/frozen/specially
adapted food to flourish.
>pH above 7.5
>hard water w/minerals such as Epsom Salt or Sea salt
>0.0 ammonia
>0.0 nitrite
>low nitrate
> (filtering well & doing frequent partial water changes
> should take care of the above 3 problems)
> ---Ned Bowers Uncle Ned's Fish Factory, Inc.
Simon Doherty
si...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu
Scott Gregory
> MALAWI CICHLIDS NEED
>no food other than GREEN SPIRULINA FLAKE FOOD
> WASHED ROMAINE LETTUCE
> GREEN ALGAE
>pH above 7.5
>hard water w/minerals such as Epsom Salt or Sea salt
>0.0 ammonia
>0.0 nitrite
>low nitrate
> (filtering well & doing frequent partial water changes
> should take care of the above 3 problems)
> ---Ned Bowers Uncle Ned's Fish Factory, Inc.
Just wanted to reemphasize this since the person who asked the original question is
a newbie. As Ned said, feed only vegetable matter. What he didn't stress is that
it is likely that feeding animal protein is what caused your malawi bloat in the
first place. Malawi cichlids like mbuna eat VERY little meat in nature and cannot
digest it properly. Hence the bloat.
Also, when you look for spirulina flake food, make sure that the #1 ingredient is
spirulina. Often foods will be sold as spirulina but its the 14th ingredient on the
list. Wardley makes an all vegetable spirulina food. It takes the fish a few days
to get used to it IME but is good healthy stuff.
-Scott
James R McCown
re: Malawi bloat
In article <4r911l$d...@twizzler.callamer.com>,
Scott Gregory <sgre...@slochamber.org> wrote:
>
>> MALAWI CICHLIDS NEED
>>no food other than GREEN SPIRULINA FLAKE FOOD
>> WASHED ROMAINE LETTUCE
>> GREEN ALGAE
>>pH above 7.5
>>hard water w/minerals such as Epsom Salt or Sea salt
>>0.0 ammonia
>>0.0 nitrite
>>low nitrate
>> (filtering well & doing frequent partial water changes
>> should take care of the above 3 problems)
>> ---Ned Bowers Uncle Ned's Fish Factory, Inc.
>
>Just wanted to reemphasize this since the person who asked the original questi
>on is
>a newbie. As Ned said, feed only vegetable matter. What he didn't stress is
>that
>it is likely that feeding animal protein is what caused your malawi bloat in t
>he
>first place. Malawi cichlids like mbuna eat VERY little meat in nature and ca
>nnot
>digest it properly. Hence the bloat.
>
>-Scott
Malawi bloat is a bacterial infection of the kidneys and has no direct
relationship with the digestive tract of the fish. There is a related disease
that attacks the intestines and results in long, stringy, translucent feces.
Both of these conditions are usually fatal.
There are many icthyologists who have studied the Mbuna and their counterparts
in Tanganyika who have come to the conclusion that these fish are omnivorous in
nature. They graze on the aufwuchs and find many small worms and crustaceans
there, which they eat in addition to the algae.
Stuart Hall
In article <4r9397$c...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
jmc...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James R McCown) wrote:
>Malawi bloat is a bacterial infection of the kidneys and has no direct
>relationship with the digestive tract of the fish. There is a related disease
>that attacks the intestines and results in long, stringy, translucent feces.
>Both of these conditions are usually fatal.
>
>There are many icthyologists who have studied the Mbuna and their counterparts
>in Tanganyika who have come to the conclusion that these fish are omnivorous in
>nature. They graze on the aufwuchs and find many small worms and crustaceans
>there, which they eat in addition to the algae.
(Applause!)
I think it's appalling that so many people propagate this myth that
Mbuna are strict herbivores. There's no way that, in grazing on the lawn
of algae, they WOULDN'T be ingesting some of the little animals that
live there. I'm conivinced of that based on what I've read written
by biologists who study cichlids.
It's also distressing that someone who runs a "fish factory" would call
"MALAWI CICHLIDS" herbivores. There are more than just the putatively-
herbivorous Mbuna in Lake Malawi. Nor are all Malawi cichlids piscivores,
as another poster implied.
As for Malawi bloat, I agree with J. McCown. I have read that it's perhaps
in sifting decayed food from the bottom that cichlids get that particular
kind of infection . . . which isn't even restricted to Malawi cichlids
at all.
Stuart
--
Stuart Hall
(stu...@onramp.net)
Kiroilen, kiroilet,
me kaikki kiroilemme parsaa!
-Esa Larsilainen
Scott Gregory
I cede the point to both of you. Obviously, there are numerous small organisms in
the aufwuchs, and certain species such as labidochromis are even specialized feeders
to maximize their ability to chomp on those little creatures. I obviously
overstated my point if I gave the impression that all mbuna are _strict_ herbivores,
or that all cichlids in the lake are herbivores at all.
However, I believe that most people err on the wrong side with these fish and that
probably influenced the strength of my response.
How often do messages show up that say : "I've been feeding my pseudotropheus beef
heart, frozen brine shrimp, and live earthworms. Now they have all bloated and
died."
Compare to how many messages that say : "I am feeding my pseudotropheus high grade
spirulina flake, with peas as a treat and they have all starved or developed
diseases from malnutrition."
I've seen a lot of the former, and very little of the latter. Personally, I feed my
mbuna a varied diet, but it is 90%+ vegetable matter. I believe that to be a good
ratio, and I never have problems with them (knock on wood) :-)
-Scott
Simon Doherty
stu...@onramp.net (Stuart Hall) wrote:
>Nor are all Malawi cichlids piscivores, as another poster implied.
Uh... I read through the responses and found no mention or implication that all
Malawian cichlids are piscivores (maybe I missed one). The only thing close was
my post which spoke of the Malawian cichlid piscivores. Not Malawian cichlids.
Not Malawian fish. But Malawian cichlid piscivores. How can this be taken to
mean that all of the Malawian cichlids are fish eaters. In fact I even used
common terminology (fish eating as opposed to piscivore to ensure that I was
understood). If they all ate one type of food then one wouldn't describe them
by what they ate. Ex. Carnivorous insects. You would only describe an insect
as such if there were species that were not carnivorous.
The only other idea I have is that you are referring to the post concerning
small worms and crustaceans being eaten with the aufwuchs. Neither of these
would constitute a piscivorous (sp.) classification.
I realize that there are newbies and even those who just don't know better
looking for advice here but come on. I was making the point that there are
Malawian cichlids that are not herbivores or even omnivores. The best bet is
not to give a general diet for all Malawians but to discover the needs of your
individual fish.
Simon Doherty
si...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu
Dean Hougen
In article <4rbsi9$9...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Simon Doherty <Si...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
>stu...@onramp.net (Stuart Hall) wrote:
>
>>Nor are all Malawi cichlids piscivores, as another poster implied.
>
>Uh... I read through the responses and found no mention or implication that all
>Malawian cichlids are piscivores (maybe I missed one). The only thing close was
Well, if you missed one, so did I. In fact, it must never have made it to
this site, since I went back and reread all the messages in the thread.
I think Stuart probably was referring to your post but, if so, he misread
it. There is no way an honest reading of your message could be seen as
implying that all (or even most) Malawian cichlids are piscivores.
Dean Hougen, cichlidiot.
--
"Hey, someone, you listening? Yeah, I bet you are." - the Clash
Orly
One person said:
>> MALAWI CICHLIDS NEED
>>no food other than GREEN SPIRULINA FLAKE FOOD
>> WASHED ROMAINE LETTUCE
>> GREEN ALGAE
... and he is full of shit.
And someone else said:
>Malawi cichlids like mbuna eat VERY little meat in nature and cannot
>digest it properly. Hence the bloat.
... and he is also full of shit. These statements cannot be made in such a
general fashion ("Malawi cichlids"). Find out what you have before you try
to investigate their dietary requirements.
Genarally speaking, what *can* be said is that most Malawians will fair quite
well when kept on any general purpose cichlid flake. It is not entirely
impossible that this person's fish suffered bloat for some other reason, you
know.
or...@ti.com There really is no heaven, just
some big lakes in East Africa.
Orly
In article <4rbsi9$9...@netnews.upenn.edu>, Si...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu
says...
>
>stu...@onramp.net (Stuart Hall) wrote:
>I was making the point that there are
>Malawian cichlids that are not herbivores or even omnivores. The best bet is
>not to give a general diet for all Malawians but to discover the needs of
>your individual fish.
Wow, and I thought I was going to read all of this thread without finding a
bit of accurate information. Cheers Simon, "right on the head."