Brine Shrimp Danger/was I misled-Qick Answer Needed
JOSEPH RIZZI
I went to the best fish store in this city and got some things and then
said I wanted some brine shrimp, so I got some. Person selling them to
me said I should be careful with them. I looked at the person and she
was giving me eye signals. I said,"Aren't they safe to feed?"
She said "Well, I wouldn't give them to your Africans." I said,"Well,
what about my SA Cichlids or community fish." I thought this was a
treat. She gave me some more eye signals and I asked, "Do they have
parasites or something?" but she ne'er said a word and there were
people all around. They are in my refrig. Please advise quick on this
one. I'm the girl who don't want no trouble........................Zee
Nestor10
The only "danger" that I'm aware of is in overfeeding. If you place too many
in the tank, the leftovers will die within a handfull of hours and quickly
decompose.
As for eye signals, practice the old European "evil eye" technique so you
can return the favor...
-Y-
nest...@mindspring.chkr.com
".chkr" is for mail-bots
Susan Scimeca
I'm not sure, but could they have possibly defrosted and have been "re-
frozen"?
Maybe that was what all the strange looks meant.
A friend of mine just recently lost most of her fish in her tank one
hour after feeding frozen brine shrimp.
Just a thought?????..........
Sue
Krampetz
In article <69sjj3$c...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, ri...@ix.netcom.com(JOSEPH
RIZZI) writes:
>I went to the best fish store in this city and got some things and then said
>I wanted some brine shrimp, so I got some. Person selling them to me said I
>should be careful with them. I looked at the person and she was giving me eye
>signals. I said,"Aren't they safe to feed?" She said "Well, I wouldn't give
>them to your Africans." I said,"Well, what about my SA Cichlids or community
>fish." I thought this was a treat. She gave me some more eye signals and I
>asked, "Do they have parasites or something?" but she ne'er said a word and
>there were people all around. They are in my refrig. Please advise quick on
>this one. I'm the girl who don't want no trouble........................Zee
If you have 'mbuna' - P.zebra's and the other 'algae' eating malawi
rock-dwellers,
then you don't want to feed high protein foods to them. They need high
veggie
foods such as spinach, zucchine, spirulina, etc..
Brine shrimp are the *SAFEST* live food for any freshwater fish as there are
no parasites from the high-salt (brine) that the shrimp live in that can make
it
in fresh water.
Feed the brine shrimp to your SA cichlids and *very* sparingly to mbuna.
Bobk
JOSEPH RIZZI
Since that post my new (less than 10 hours) Blue Ram died so I made
the long journey back to the Fish Store. Manager there said that could
feed brine shrimp to all fishes except Africans from Lake Malawi, which
is my biggest and favorite tank. He said that they should only have
spirulina flakes (which I believe is just algae, isn't it?). He said
other flakes, brine shrimp or other such food would give them the
dreaded "Malawi Bloat", which I never heard of, but I don't doubt him.
But this leads me back to an earlier thread, are Mbunas , Tropheus
really algae eaters. I sound confused because I am..............Z
In <69tu17$a...@camel20.mindspring.com> "Nestor10"
JOSEPH RIZZI
In <69ugj5$vv6$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> GDP...@prodigy.com
(Susan Scimeca) writes:
>
Omigosh. Forget the brine shrimp and thank you, Sue. I'm gonna stick
with flakes and not try to get fancy again. Why not leave well enough
alone, right? My fish seem delighted with the flakes........Zee
Mike9997
Zee,
I and many friends use brine shrimp on an occasional basis for african
cichlids... and with no problems. Don't ever hesitate to be assertive and ask
specific questions. Next time you go to that store... ask them why she was so
reluctant.
Mike H.
Steffano2
Feed on there should be no problems at all! Live brine is almost all water
anyway. Now if you were going to start to feed live black worms that is another
story.
Steve
Chicago
Nestor10
Ahh...
For that answer, I'll have to defer to the African experts, as the only ones
I have are Julies and Neolamps, both meat-eaters.
From the threads that I've read, though, even algae eaters get some animal
proteins in the wild. It's hard to see how a fish could graze on algae and
not catch the insects living in it (no, artemia are not native to fresh
water, obviously). It would be about the same as saying carnivores get their
vegetation from that contained in the digestive tract of their prey.
Sorry if my previuos thread caused more confusion - I was answering under
the assumption that the problem was in the shrimp, and not in the dietary
make-up of the specific fish.
Mark Fig
I too use brine shrimp...at least twice a week with no problems and I
have yellow labs.
Mark
bobbrins
ri...@ix.netcom.com(JOSEPH RIZZI) wrote:
I've never had any problems with any frozen foods. Maybe if you're
just careful as to where you buy them...
"Another generation, in a world of hurtful words. I've listened
for a ring of truth but lies are all I've heard."
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/5465/index.htm
For details on free web access visit the following site:
http://proweb.dyn.ml.org
Charles Jolliff
Don't worry about the brine shrimp. The only way they could have been
trouble is if package had thawed and then been refrozen. I have seen this
happen before...how do you know...glad you asked...package will appear
distorted (assuming you buy a package other than the frozen small cubes, I
don't know how you would tell with this other than there is a distinctive
odor to bad brine shrimp...let em' sit out a while and see for yourself).
By distorted I mean will not be smooth when layed flat....
Chuck
JOSEPH RIZZI <ri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<69uv1b$d...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>...
Krampetz
In article <01bd26c7$1a7d2b40$22ef10d0@default>, "Charles Jolliff"
<chu...@bootheel.net> writes:
>Don't worry about the brine shrimp. The only way they could have
>been trouble is if package had thawed and then been refrozen. I have seen
>this happen before...how do you know...glad you asked...package will
>appear distorted (assuming you buy a package other than the frozen small
>cubes, I don't know how you would tell with this other than there is a
>distinctive odor to bad brine shrimp...let em' sit out a while and see for
>yourself). By distorted I mean will not be smooth when layed flat....
Refrozen food will have the texture more icy. But 'bad'?? Look at
all the food 'rotting' in your tank as fish pick at it.. I keep a piece of
cooked zuccini in my tanks all the time, and that sometimes takes
3-4 days before the skins breakdown enough for the fish to eat it.
And what do you suppose 'detritus' is? (rotting organic material)
If there is a problem with the frozen brine, I highly doubt it was due
to thawing and refreezing.
bobk
Benson
I have feed my malawi cichlids live brine shrimp bi weekly with no
problems. Other times they get "green" flakes. They are breeding like
rabbits. I think the algae scrapers get a fair number of other critters as
they eat the rift lake algae. Could there have been something else wrong
things in your tank? I have a mix of mbuna and open water predatory
cichlids in my tank. they both appear to enjoy live brine shrimp. I keep
the brine shrimp in the fridge, they last longer. I also find it
interesting that the open water predators likes feeders and the mbuna won't
touch them. Do these fish know what's good for them?
Dave
The gal at the store may have been refering to Mbuna diet
considerations. Alot of protein can be dangerous to their digestive
systems. One of the main causes of bloat is too much protein.
Benson
Dave, I think you are correct regarding the mbuna diet, These fish have a long
digestive tract that is designed to break down veggie food. I feed them live
brine shrimp as a treat to supplement their diet. Most of the time they get
"green" flakes. I think a constant diet of live brine shrimp will cause
problems.
JOSEPH RIZZI
According to my forty dollah book, my Hap. Moorii need live food,
beef heart or tablets, and my Pseudotrophs need flakes, algae, and live
food. HOWEVER, when I first started with Cichlids, they LFS insisted I
feed them Spirulina, which is algae. In fact, he said that if I fed
them anything else they would get Malawi bloat. I am quite confused. Do
I feed them the green only or mix a diet with flakes and BEEF HEART?
I'll just run down to the store and pick up some of that....I don't
think so. What do I do......I know somebody knows...........Zee
(my fish are all Malawi fish--Zebras,Labs &Haps)
T. Alfieri
I know nothing about Malawi cichlids or their diet requirements. But, I
do know that, at least around here, you *can* actually get beef heart in
stores. It's not easy to find, but I think I finally found mine at
either Kroger or Meijer. It's mixed in with the misc beef parts.
(Tongue, etc.) Just understand that you'll probably get alot of really
weird looks from the cashier when you go to pay for this huge heart!!! I
used a cheese grater and fed the pieces to my neotropicals; they loved
it! (My husband wasn't so fond of the practice though. Although, he
definitely liked it more than the earthworms in the blender! That's a
whole different story though!!! ;-)
HTH,
Tracie
Steffano2
I think we all should understand that the BLOAT is a 2 fold situation that is
caused by water chemisrty break down and over crowding. Diet is not the main
cause of this problem. If you have poor water quality and over crowded then you
are heading for big troubles. Key here is to feed small portions often as
Mbunas are constant grazers and keep you tanks under stocked. Plus lets not
forget those ever populare water changes.
As for feeding brine shrimp, go for it. The fish eat in the wild all the little
copeapods and small crustaions that are in the algae layer when they are
rasping away at the aglae layer. I did feed my Mbunas Black worms without
troubles. They were not feed it more then once a week. Key here is again water
quality and stock levels kept low. Oh and yes the ever populare green flakes in
their diet. Hope this helps.
Steve
Chicago
Mainesrus
>distorted (assuming you buy a package other than the frozen small cubes, I
>don't know how you would tell with this other than there is a distinctive
>odor to bad brine shrimp...
It isn't exactly a "distinctive" odor, it will about knock you over. Kinda
imagine cat food gone bad combined with iodine, and you get the point...
The stink is noticeable in frozen brine....
Best, Reva
Fred Hamilton
Steffano2 wrote:
>
> I think we all should understand that the BLOAT is a 2 fold situation that is
> caused by water chemisrty break down and over crowding. Diet is not the main
> cause of this problem. If you have poor water quality and over crowded then you
> are heading for big troubles.
For what it's worth, "Malawi bloat" should really be seen as a symptom,
not a disease. In the usual presentation of this syndrome, the fish
swell up due to an underlying bacteremia (bacteria in the blood stream)
which can be caused by a variety of things, but most commonly stress and
unclean tank conditions. The infection eventually produces electrolyte
imbalance (probably an excess of sodium relative to potassium in
tissues) which deranges the animals' ability to actively transport water
in and out of cells. The result is what is known as the "third spacing"
phenomenon, in which water accumulates in and between tissues as the
tissue attempts to dilute the excessive sodium. This happens in acutely
ill humans and the fluid accumulation is often treated with a diuretic
such as Lasix. Cure depends on eradication of the underlying bacteremia
with an appropriate antibiotic (depending on the organism involved). In
fishes, achieving the proper level of antibiotic in tissue poses a host
of practical difficulties, the first of which is "which antibiotic?"
I've been fortunate enough to have had only one outbreak of "Malawi
bloat" in about 20 years. It occurred in an isolated, but very
stressed, wild fish. Coincidentally I had access to a clinical
microbiology laboratory, and when the fish expired, I took it to a
"laminar flow" chamber where I isolated some blood and tissue for
culture. The organism which was identified was a somewhat obscure bug
of the genus Bacillus, but I can't remember the species name. It would
have been amenable to treatment with a variety of antibiotics, but, at
that point, of course, the fish was long gone.
Having said all that, I agree that the best way to avoid "bloat"
syndrome is simple water changing and maintaining low population
densities relative to tank size. Most of the reports of "bloat" are
accompanied by indications of poor water conditions, overcrowding (which
is the same thing), etc. It is also reasonable, based on the long
digestive tract found in most mbuna and in Tropheus, to take a hint and
feed primarily vegetable-based foods. However, IMO there is no *direct*
relationship between feeding high protein foods and the development of
"Malawi bloat."
Fred
Krampetz
In article <19980131025...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, main...@aol.com
(Mainesrus) writes:
>>distorted (assuming you buy a package other than the frozen small cubes,
>>odor to bad brine shrimp...
>It isn't exactly a "distinctive" odor, it will about knock you over. Kinda
>imagine cat food gone bad combined with iodine, and you get the point...
>The stink is noticeable in frozen brine....
I've fished brine shrimp from the salt flats ( the shrimpers pay for
'fishing'
rights and keep amature away!) -- and brine shrimp smell is pure
'briney' .. I've frozen my own, and they still should smell 'briney' when
thawed.. Any other odor and I'd agree - they spoiled!
Fish in the wild eat detritous - or rotten vegetation, and dead fish &
drowned
birds -- but with spoiled frozen food, there has to ammonia and probable
harmful bacteria.
Bobk
Bobk
JOSEPH RIZZI
Tracie, Indeed my hat is off to you for being so diligent for your
little ones but you missed my drift completely. It wasn't that I
couldn't find a beef heart, it was that I did not want to find it or
its tongue, eyeballs, etc. Your a good fish mommy, but there must be an
easier and less nauseating solution......................Zee
In <34D1C14C...@ix.netcom.com> "T. Alfieri"
Steffano2
Fred,
Thanks for the deep technical explanation of "Bloat". I learned a lot and glad
that we agree. I sure hope this clears the tank water a little.
Steve
Chicago
T. Alfieri
JOSEPH RIZZI wrote:
>
> Tracie, Indeed my hat is off to you for being so diligent for your
> little ones but you missed my drift completely. It wasn't that I
> couldn't find a beef heart, it was that I did not want to find it or
> its tongue, eyeballs, etc. Your a good fish mommy, but there must be an
> easier and less nauseating solution......................Zee
It's actually not that bad. I think that a more nauseating practice is
feeder fish. I threw a goldfish in a tank with my Jaguar and he killed
it and spit it out. (In a little poof of scales.) I'd much rather grate
up a piece of meat than go through that again! ;-)
Just don't think of it as a heart. Once it's frozen, it could be a steak
or anything. Of course, the eyes or tongue would be a little nastier!
Tracie
Mainesrus
Zee,
Almost any good LFS will be happy to sell you prepared minced beefheart, either
in handy little frozen cubes, or in flat packages where you break off what you
need.
I can remember cleaning fresh beefheart years ago (you have to remove each and
every vein, speck of fat, clot...yeeech!), running it thru the mincer and
freezing it on cookie sheets. Yah...the frozen stuff costs a LOT more, but it
is sure neater and easier.
Best, Reva ( a BIG fan of frozen fishfoods!)