Sea Salt and Malawi Bloat?
Karen Seybold
and that I should add about half a cup of instant ocean to my tank. What do
you guys think?
--
Karen Seybold <kw...@earthlink.net>
( For those of you who remember what size tank I have, and that I have some
young Tangs in there, Please don't flame me. I've upped to changing water
twice a week as I don't have to treat the water at all. So far everyone
seems pretty happy, including the Brichardi who loves have more fish to
bully.)
Munk
salt
"Karen Seybold" <kw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B691AF63.1C3D%kw...@earthlink.net...
CK
I didn't think Bloat was a disease that was passed from fish to fish? I
guess that my several experiences with Bloat was due to feeding to much
Protein to the wrong type of fish, and mainly because of poor water
conditions. I would be interested to hear others view on this.
Take care,
Craig
sisc0
worry about anything...it's not transmitted via the air...atleast I hope
not, of so were all doomed ;)
sisc0
"Karen Seybold" <kw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B691AF63.1C3D%kw...@earthlink.net...
se...@theaquariumexchange.com
in the diet. It is much more likely that it is a bacterial infection
which is more than likely either brought on or aggrevated by poor water
quality maybe in combination with stress. The reason why I hold this
view is because perhaps the biggest importer of Rift Lake Cichlids in
the country feeds his fish a homemade shrimp meal mixture and brine
shrimp and does not have signifigant problems with Malawi Bloat. I
would say the proof is in the practice.
Sean
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Mala...@webtv.net
agree that salt will help. If they have fish that have bloat I would not
buy them thinking salt will cure them.
edwar...@hotmail.com
se...@theaquariumexchange.com wrote:
> I have serious doubts that Malawi Bloat is related to to much protien
> in the diet.
It is reported quite frequently that Malawi Bloat is associated with
high protein diets. However, it doesn't mean that feeding high protein
foods to Africans leads to bloat. You mentioned bacterial infection of
the gut - this is commonly believed to be the cause of bloat and it can
be brought on by stress etc (that you pointed out) but it can also be
brought on by fish ingesting large amounts of high-protein foods at
once, for example big lumps of half thawed bloodworm. This is the main
culprit. The big lumps of bloodworm sit in the gut, and can cause
infection before it gets digested - most African's guts aren't upto
digesting this type of food. This is the reference to the high-protein
diet.
The key is to feed thawed out bloodworm etc, so that no one fish can
grab a huge mouthful at once.
This is by no means a definative cause of Malawi Bloat, but it is
likely to be one of the main causes.
I've got some more stuff about Bloat and Malawis here:
http://www.dot-aquaria.com
Cheers,
Ed
Dot Aquaria - http://www.dot-aquaria.com
Karen Seybold
LFS does not sell sick fish. They are using salt in their tanks to prevent
it. When the guy who works there said it was going around, I think he meant
that his fish from the same shipment (place?) that the LFS has, now have it.
And that's why they are using salt now.
-Karen
NOSPA...@SPAMFREEcanada.com wrote on 1/22/01 6:55 PM:
sisc0
store.
sisc0
"Karen Seybold" <kw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B692FEB1.1C8B%kw...@earthlink.net...
Munk
"sisc0" <NOSPA...@SPAMFREEcanada.com> wrote in message
news:lAib6.134$D05....@sapphire.mtt.net...
Peter B
I think we have to make an important distinction here. Feeding mammalian
protein to these fish is the big no-no, not brine shrimp. What else is in the
shrimp mix? Some veggies/roughage too, I would imagine.
I agree wholeheartedly, stress can lead to bloat. With some fish, maybe the
stress is caused by feeding (or changing to) the wrong foods or poor water
quality like you suggested.
take care,
Pedro
In article <94iric$qs2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, se...@theaquariumexchange.com wrote:
Peter B
But the secondary bacterial infection is what kills the fish, not the 'bloat'
per se. Wish I knew how to eliminate bloat, other than removing the fish
which was affected (& getting picked on).
regards,
Pedro
In article <vl5b6.5626$Mu1.4...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "CK"
CK
really thought of.
d
Bloat is an intestinal inflammation. Secondary parasitic infections
are what kill your fish. So salting the water is not a bad
preventative measure on parasites if you think conditions in your tank
are not ideal.
However, since bloat is not parasitic or viral, it is not something
that "goes around". Fish get it from stressful conditions.
Conditions thought to promote bloat include improper diet, poor water
conditions (in our tanks typically high nitrates), excessive
aggression among tank mates, stray voltage from powerheads and
heaters. Fish seem more prone in higher temperature environments.
Suggested precautions are proper diet, control nitrates by regular
water changes and/or live plants if you can grow them, keep
temperature below 80 (76-78 ideal), and grounding probe, and careful
tankmate selection (this being the hardest work in a cichlid tank!)
Dave K
d
>are what kill your fish. So salting the water is not a bad
>preventative measure on parasites if you think conditions in your tank
>are not ideal.
>
>However, since bloat is not parasitic or viral, it is not something
>that "goes around". Fish get it from stressful conditions.
>Conditions thought to promote bloat include improper diet, poor water
>conditions (in our tanks typically high nitrates), excessive
>aggression among tank mates, stray voltage from powerheads and
>heaters. Fish seem more prone in higher temperature environments.
>
>Suggested precautions are proper diet, control nitrates by regular
>water changes and/or live plants if you can grow them, keep
>temperature below 80 (76-78 ideal), and grounding probe, and careful
>tankmate selection (this being the hardest work in a cichlid tank!)
>
>Dave K
Following up on my own post - salt is beneficial to help control
secondary parasitic infections. Metronidazole is considered to be
beneficial for the intestinal inflammation. I have had recoveries
using these. It is much better to prevent. Buy yourself a Meridian
water changer from the mail order folks and feed a varied but
reasonable diet.
Dave K
The Klines
I've had mbuna eat ones sick with bloat with no ill effects. (I have a
relatively large tank with lots of rocks. It's hard to catch even a sick
fish.) I'm in agreement with those who believe bloat is caused by improper
diet.
At "http://www.dot-aquaria.com/Index.cfm?p=32", there's a paragraph
stating that Epsom salt can help in avoiding bloat.
W. Kline
Tom
> I just got a a few Auloncara. The LFS told me that bloat is going around
> and that I should add about half a cup of instant ocean to my tank. What do
> you guys think?
> --
Adding salt to your tank is not that necessary but to yes you can use salt or
preferable epsom salt "magnesium sulfate" to cure bloat. You'll need about
1/2-1 cup of Epsom salt per 10 gallons of water. Increase temp up to 85-90*F.
You'll also need to dose the tank with wide spectrum antibiotic to control
internal bacteria infection. One of the best med. I've seen is Clout. Clout
works by deafening the nervous system of fishes and thereby calm them down in
order to reduce fighting, environment impacts and overall stresses, this is a
crucial step for treatment. However, Clout can lead to many side affect. One of
the main concerns is damaging reproductive system.
good luck...
--
Located in S. California. We specialized in fresh and marine, cichlid, tank set
up, and services. Information, pictures and aquarium supply also available
here. Home on the web http://www.paps2000.com
Derek Llewellyn
se...@theaquariumexchange.com
dam...@hotmail.com (Peter B) wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
> I think we have to make an important distinction here. Feeding
mammalian
> protein to these fish is the big no-no, not brine shrimp. What else
is in the
> shrimp mix? Some veggies/roughage too, I would imagine.
>
> I agree wholeheartedly, stress can lead to bloat. With some fish,
maybe the
> stress is caused by feeding (or changing to) the wrong foods or poor
water
> quality like you suggested.
>
> take care,
> Pedro
I do not believe that they add any roughage to it. I believe it is
just shrimp meal and water.
Dave
How much salt are we talking about here?
Should I be adding salt to my cichlid tank on a regular basis?
Tank = 20gal long
Temp.= 78
KH = 214
GH = 300
Nitrite=.25
PH = 7.8
Don't ask...long story. I've been messing around moving fish, filters, and
now monitoring until things settle down a bit.
Thanks
Dave T
d
>What is a Meridian water changer????
The Meridian Water Changer is available from mail order sites 'That
Fish Place' and 'Pet Warehouse' for $20. If your tank is within 30
feet of a faucet and drain, you just hook up the dual line from the
sink to the tank. Turn on the water which runs to the tank, creates a
syphon that draws water back down the 2nd line to the drain. Water is
changed out at a rate of 5 gallons per hour. You turn on the water,
leave for a couple of hours, then turn it off and you are done!
My tank is in the den which is next to the laundry room. I have added
a Y valve (Home Depot $2) to my washing machine faucet. One line for
the washer, the other for the water changer. I put a cheap carbon
water filter inline to remove chlorine, though probably not necessary.
Drilled a small hole in the baseboard to run the hose thru the wall
from the laundry to the den and to the tank. So it is always hooked
up. I just open the valve, go do errands or watch TV or whatever for
a couple of hours, and then close the valve. I just did a 10 gal
water change with no mess, no effort, no electricity. Its great!
Dave K
d
salt can eradicate parasites and stimulate the slime coat that helps
protect your fish. Some fear that when using a constant level of
salt, parasites will gain a tolerance over time that defeats the
usefullness of the salt.
My experience is that most fish adapt and thrive in any reasonable
water condition. My fish generally live long lives, have great color,
and breed like rabbits in any pH, salinity, with or without additives.
The important thing is clean water, no ammonia, no nitrite, and little
if any nitrate, stable temperature, good diet, and thoughtful
selection of tankmates (i.e low stress). I don't use salt except as
a treatment. I don't use any additives. The only pH adjustment I
have results from a 50/50 mix of crushed coral and gravel. This
raises my pH from 7.4 at the tap to 7.8 in the tank.
No additives means no expense and no effort.
If you do use salt to re-create the fish's natural environment,
remember that lake salt results from heavy mineral deposits that are
of different composition than sea salt and definitely different than
the aquarium salt sold at Petsmart. You want to use one of the rift
lake salts. I think it is unnecessary, but I'm sure there are
hobbyists who will swear by it.
Dave K
"Dave" <lay...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>How much salt are we talking about here?
>
>Should I be adding salt to my cichlid tank on a regular basis?
>
>
d
>Thanks Dave, sounds like a Pithon
Sort of, but not really. With a Python you can remove water, then you
can re-fill, at a high volume pace. The Meridian does both at the
same time, at a slow pace.
The Python is hands on, and the Meridian, if set up like I have it, is
hands off.
Karen Seybold
the great detailed information. I think I will not use salt as a
preventive. Everyone looks healthy so far. I will definitely keep in mind
the Meridian water changer. Right now, I use the old water for my aspens. I
do a lot of water changes now anyway
-K
--
Karen Seybold <kw...@earthlink.net>
Derek Llewellyn
d
I'm not intending to advertise for them, but I really like the
Meridian.
Dave K