Peyton & Peyton Cast Iron Bed
Darren Cheesman
I have just bought a Peyton & Peyton cast iron bed
Made 1850 - 1870
Curved top
Original paint
Any idea what value ????
moll...@epix.net
Kris Baker
"Darren Cheesman" <che...@senet.com.au> wrote:
>I have just bought a Peyton & Peyton cast iron bed
>
>Made 1850 - 1870
>Curved top
>Original paint
>Any idea what value ????
mollycat@epix net replies:
>What did you pay for it?
>mcat
Molly - this brings up a question I've wanted to ask for
a long long time:
"AFTER someone has purchased an item, why do
they THEN want to know about value?"
Wouldn't one want to ascertain some semblance of
value before they buy something??????
Kris
Gillam Kerley
Kris Baker wrote:
>
>
> Molly - this brings up a question I've wanted to ask for
> a long long time:
>
> "AFTER someone has purchased an item, why do
> they THEN want to know about value?"
>
> Wouldn't one want to ascertain some semblance of
> value before they buy something??????
>
> Kris
Depends.
Suppose someone offers you a 150-year-old cast iron bed for the price of
the scrap metal. Are you going to run home, check your price guides,
post a message on the 'Net, and wait for replies while someone else buys
the bed? I don't think so; I think you'd just hand the seller a ten
dollar bill and figure out if the value is really $100 or $1000 at your
leisure.
I have no idea what much of the stuff I buy at auctions is worth. All I
need to know is that it's worth more than I pay for it.
Case in point: I recently bought 3 box lots of Raggedy Ann dolls for
under $12. I had no idea whether they had any collectible value, but I
did know that, if worst came to worst, I could sell them as used toys
for kids to play with for 2 or 3 times that much. Turns out that some
of them were of modest interest to doll collectors, and a doll dealer in
our mall paid me $60 for about half of them. The rest I'm selling as
used toys.
My best find ever (and I think it would be fun to start a thread of
these stories) was an autographed copy of "Stride Toward Freedom" by
Martin Luther King, Jr. It was in a box of paperback books at an estate
sale, marked 50 cents each. Now, I knew that I could sell a copy
without the autograph for $3.00, but didn't have a clue what the
autograph was worth. It didn't matter, in my worst case scenario it was
worth at least 6 times the price I paid.
It took me five years to get around to researching the book's value.
Result: Last year, I sold it at an autograph auction for $1,100.00.
GK
moll...@epix.net
JDK...@prodigy.com (Kris Baker) wrote:
>"Darren Cheesman" <che...@senet.com.au> wrote:
>>I have just bought a Peyton & Peyton cast iron bed
>>
>>Made 1850 - 1870
>>Curved top
>>Original paint
>>Any idea what value ????
>mollycat@epix net replies:
>>What did you pay for it?
>>mcat
>Molly - this brings up a question I've wanted to ask for
>a long long time:
> "AFTER someone has purchased an item, why do
> they THEN want to know about value?"
>Wouldn't one want to ascertain some semblance of
>value before they buy something??????
>Kris
It was a rhetorical question; I don't really care *what* was paid
for it...it seems that it's value would be whatever one person
was willing to sell it for and another was willing to pay.
mcat
Linda Zinn
Kris Baker <JDK...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> "Darren Cheesman" <che...@senet.com.au> wrote:
> >I have just bought a Peyton & Peyton cast iron bed
> >
> >Made 1850 - 1870
> >Curved top
> >Original paint
> >Any idea what value ????
> mollycat@epix net replies:
> >What did you pay for it?
> Molly - this brings up a question I've wanted to ask for
> a long long time:
> "AFTER someone has purchased an item, why do
> they THEN want to know about value?"
> Wouldn't one want to ascertain some semblance of
> value before they buy something??????
Do you mean to tell me that neither of you ever buys anything
on the hunch that you've made a find, without knowing for certain?
Or that you've never bought something because you simply liked
it, and then wondered if you made a good buy?
Linda
Ronnie McKinley
In rec.antiques Gillam Kerley wrote:
>Depends.
>
>Suppose someone offers you a 150-year-old cast iron bed for the price of
>the scrap metal. Are you going to run home, check your price guides,
>post a message on the 'Net, and wait for replies while someone else buys
>the bed? I don't think so; I think you'd just hand the seller a ten
>dollar bill and figure out if the value is really $100 or $1000 at your
>leisure.
>
So what if it ain't dime and dollar stuff Gillam and you have to part with
real money. Say that $1000 bed is offered to you for $600, what do you then
do, walk away and leave it? Because you really don't know its value? Now
you are not just one of these "dealers" that never pay more than $50 for
ANYTHING? ;)
>I have no idea what much of the stuff I buy at auctions is worth.
You can't possibly buy everything in ignorance? Do you?
>All I
>need to know is that it's worth more than I pay for it.
Well how do you work that out? when as you say "I have no idea what much of
the stuff I buy at auctions is worth." Maybe you make sure whatever you
buy, it's bought for cents, THEN, run home and check your Guide Books and
post on the "net" rather than selling for cents + profit.
You the dealer, determines what something is worth, or what you believe it
to be worth, not some guide book, if you don't know that worth then how can
you buy it in the first place, unless you apply the buy everything "at the
same price" theory. You buy and sell at prices you have confidant with, if
you don't have confidence in judging your own prices, you'll make a pretty
piss poor dealer. Or else you buy with a gut feeling, but sometimes that
means parting with real money, and this is when the boys are separated from
the men. :) We buy and sell to make profit ...... 5% OR 5000% either way,
it's profit but there's never any guarantee in this business there will be
profit at the end of the day. Knowledge is what guarantees rewards in this
business, living in ignorance is the road to no town.
Ronnie
mcki...@netcomuk.co.uk
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~mckinley/index.htm
================================================
please spare a thought,
take a moment, help stop the violence
http://www.iol.ie/~kasst/partis.htm
================================================
rec.antiques FAQs at the following URL
http://lonestar.texas.net/~clough/rafaq.html
Kris Baker
Linda Zinn (Shell) wrote:
>
>Do you mean to tell me that neither of you ever buys
>anything on the hunch that you've made a find, without
>knowing for certain? Or that you've never bought something
>because you simply liked it, and then wondered if you
>made a good buy?
>
>Linda
Sure, I've done that many times.
But my question was a nebulous one; asking why we get
so many questions here about value after an item's been
purchased. I'm not talking about the dealers, I'm talking
about the folks looking for appraisals. Are they looking for
validation of their purchase, or having buyer's remorse?
Actually, I DO wish folks would say "Hey, I bought this
great item for $10 - what's it worth?" -- then, we'd know.
But if they sat at an auction and paid $500 for a green-
antiqued lyre table, well.........
Kris
pat
I love your attitude, Linda Zinn........go for it!!!! Speak out!!
>
>
> >
Gillam Kerley
Ronnie McKinley wrote:
>
>
> So what if it ain't dime and dollar stuff Gillam and you have to part with
> real money. Say that $1000 bed is offered to you for $600, what do you then
> do, walk away and leave it? Because you really don't know its value?
Haven't I mentioned that I'm a cheapskate? The only way I'm going to
invest $600 in anything is if I not only know that it's worth $1000 but
know thew name, address, and phone number of the person who is going to
buy it from me for that price.
Now
> you are not just one of these "dealers" that never pay more than $50 for
> ANYTHING? ;)
$50? I start getting nervous when the bidding goes over ten.
The mall that I'm in tends to serve a "downscale" market, with quite a
bit of "flea market" merchandise among the antiques. Most of my profits
come from buying box lots for $1.00 and finding a dozen items in the box
that I can sell for $8 apiece. My "cost of goods sold" averages 20% of
gross sales.
> >I have no idea what much of the stuff I buy at auctions is worth.
>
> You can't possibly buy everything in ignorance? Do you?
Knowledge cuts into my profit margin. If I know an item is worth $300,
I might be tempted to spend $150 on it. If all I know is that it's
worth somewhere between $30 and $3,000, I'll lie low and wait till I can
spend that $150 to buy 15 of them for $10 apiece, then sort them out
later.
To paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson, "I don't advocate ignorance, but it's
worked well for me."
>
> >All I
> >need to know is that it's worth more than I pay for it.
>
> Well how do you work that out? when as you say "I have no idea what much of
> the stuff I buy at auctions is worth." Maybe you make sure whatever you
> buy, it's bought for cents, THEN, run home and check your Guide Books and
> post on the "net" rather than selling for cents + profit.
That's a pretty good description of my technique. Or I ask around, or
look in other shops or booths to see what my colleagues are asking for
similar stuff.
It's also why I buy primarily at auctions, rather than directly from
individuals, since I would feel obliged to pay an individual more than
"pennies" for a potentially valuable object.
>
> You the dealer, determines what something is worth, or what you believe it
> to be worth, not some guide book, if you don't know that worth then how can
> you buy it in the first place, unless you apply the buy everything "at the
> same price" theory.
No, I don't buy everything at the same price, primarily because my level
of ignorance varies from item to item.
If I have complete ignorance, I figure my maximum bid based on the
"pretty thing" theory. In other words, how would someone who walks by
and says "gee, that's a pretty thing" pay for it? (Then adjust from
retail to wholesale.) I might learn later that the pretty thing happens
to be a genuine Galle and price it for resale accordingly. Or I might
give up and conclude that it's just a pretty thing.
At an intermediate level, I know enough about Rookwood to be willing to
pay $100 for just about any piece of it, since I've never seen one go at
auction for less than that. Whether it's $200 Rookwood or $2000
Rookwood I'll find out later.
Finally, there are a few categories that I know quite well.
Unfortunately, I'm generally buying these for my own collection rather
than for resale.
The price of this strategy is that I will never own a piece of Rookwood,
since everyone else knows at least as much as I do. But, given the
market that I'm serving, I can buy a lot of pretty things in the time
that Rookwood would sit and wait for a buyer.
You buy and sell at prices you have confidant with, if
> you don't have confidence in judging your own prices, you'll make a pretty
> piss poor dealer. Or else you buy with a gut feeling, but sometimes that
> means parting with real money, and this is when the boys are separated from
> the men. :)
I'm still searching for the boys-only auctions. My short pants and
beanie cap are ready, along with a fake ID.
We buy and sell to make profit ...... 5% OR 5000% either way,
> it's profit but there's never any guarantee in this business there will be
> profit at the end of the day. Knowledge is what guarantees rewards in this
> business, living in ignorance is the road to no town.
Of course, the most important knowledge is knowing what you do not know.
My strategy is: "Know that you know nothing when you're buying; learn
something before you sell."
GK
Linda Zinn
Kris Baker <JDK...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> Linda Zinn wrote:
> >
> >Do you mean to tell me that neither of you ever buys
> >anything on the hunch that you've made a find, without
> >knowing for certain? Or that you've never bought something
> >because you simply liked it, and then wondered if you
> >made a good buy?
> Sure, I've done that many times.
> But my question was a nebulous one; asking why we get
> so many questions here about value after an item's been
> purchased. I'm not talking about the dealers, I'm talking
> about the folks looking for appraisals. Are they looking for
> validation of their purchase, or having buyer's remorse?
I don't understand the distinction between dealers and collectors
here. Don't dealers look for validation of their purchases? And
don't they have buyer's remorse, just like everyone else? (Only perhaps
more frequently <g>) If you want to call it "looking for appraisals,"
what's the difference whether the person asking is a dealer or not? This
isn't an adversarial-type question...I'd really like to understand
this distinction.
To answer your question, on the very rare occasions when I've asked
"what's it worth" questions on r.a, it was because I'd bought something
that I *thought* was a great deal but was perhaps outside my usual
collecting areas, and I couldn't find any info about it in
any of my references or my library's. So I guess you'd call that
"looking for validation of my purchase." I'd call it wanting
to know if I'd made a big boo-boo or if I was a purchasing genius. :) I
wouldn't call it "looking for an appraisal," any more than if
a full-time dealer asked the same question.
This leads me to another point:
One thing to keep in mind is that probably 75% (totally unscientific data
based on personal observation) :) of the people who seriously
collect antiques do a little (or a lot) of part-time dealing to keep their
collecting coffers full. After all, it's a natural. You're at
estate sales and auctions and so have access to all sorts of dandy
old stuff.
You develop a sense of what's desirable and valuable, if
you're paying attention. You become friends with dealers
and other collectors with whom you wait in line at estate sales,
who ask you to keep your eye out for such-and-such. You buy too many
cool things and find yourself setting up at a flea market or at the
occasional antique show to "thin out" your collection. It just evolves.
Isn't that how most dealers got into the business, really?
I might be missing something, but it seems to me that whether someone
here is a dealer, purely a collector, or a little of both, we're all
interested in the same thing: antiques! And I think we all ask
"what's it worth" questions for the same reason. Because we haven't
been able to find out for ourselves and because we know there are
a lot of knowledgeable people hanging around r.a whom we can ask. :)
Linda
PS. Oh, and when I have buyer's remorse, I bury the source of
my aggravation in the back yard, so I'll never have to lay eyes on
it again. :)
Ronnie McKinley
In rec.antiques Gillam Kerley wrote:
>At an intermediate level, I know enough about Rookwood to be willing to
>pay $100 for just about any piece of it,
Yea until the market is flooded with repros, then what will you do, look
for one of Kris' stickers on the bottom?
>
>My strategy is: "Know that you know nothing when you're buying; learn
>something before you sell."
>
Gillam I just love "dealers" with your attitude and when I flog them
something, I fell no remorse ....... just pleasure >:)
moll...@epix.net
Linda Zinn (Shell) <zi...@devel.nacs.net> wrote:
>I don't understand the distinction between dealers and collectors
>here. Don't dealers look for validation of their purchases? And
>don't they have buyer's remorse, just like everyone else? (Only perhaps
>more frequently <g>) If you want to call it "looking for appraisals,"
>what's the difference whether the person asking is a dealer or not? This
>isn't an adversarial-type question...I'd really like to understand
>this distinction.
The difference between a collector and a dealer:
The collector will decide what he thinks an item is worth, pay
it's value, and keep it (at least that's the plan, until a better
one shows up.) While it is in his possession and he isn't
thinking of selling it, it's "value" is relevant only to the
insurance company, if it is insured. It is only when it comes
time to get rid of the item that he might need to know the market
value, and that is quite likely to have changed since he bought
it.
A dealer will see an item and guess what someone else might value
it at, then pay substantially less.
>To answer your question, on the very rare occasions when I've asked
>"what's it worth" questions on r.a, it was because I'd bought something
>that I *thought* was a great deal but was perhaps outside my usual
>collecting areas, and I couldn't find any info about it in
>any of my references or my library's. So I guess you'd call that
>"looking for validation of my purchase." I'd call it wanting
>to know if I'd made a big boo-boo or if I was a purchasing genius. :) I
>wouldn't call it "looking for an appraisal," any more than if
>a full-time dealer asked the same question.
>This leads me to another point:
>One thing to keep in mind is that probably 75% (totally unscientific data
>based on personal observation) :) of the people who seriously
>collect antiques do a little (or a lot) of part-time dealing to keep their
>collecting coffers full. After all, it's a natural. You're at
>estate sales and auctions and so have access to all sorts of dandy
>old stuff.
The original post was asking the value of an iron bed. Someone
who collects iron beds would have an idea. Someone who bought it
to sleep in will have paid no more than what it's worth to them
to sleep in an iron bed. A dealer should have *some* sort of
idea what it could sell for, or leave it. Or buy it at scrap
metal prices.
>You develop a sense of what's desirable and valuable, if
>you're paying attention. You become friends with dealers
>and other collectors with whom you wait in line at estate sales,
>who ask you to keep your eye out for such-and-such. You buy too many
>cool things and find yourself setting up at a flea market or at the
>occasional antique show to "thin out" your collection. It just evolves.
>Isn't that how most dealers got into the business, really?
Not me, but that's another story. So, when a collector thins out
his collection, does he remember what he paid for everything, and
have to make a profit?
>I might be missing something, but it seems to me that whether someone
>here is a dealer, purely a collector, or a little of both, we're all
>interested in the same thing: antiques! And I think we all ask
>"what's it worth" questions for the same reason. Because we haven't
>been able to find out for ourselves and because we know there are
>a lot of knowledgeable people hanging around r.a whom we can ask. :)
The answer to "what's it worth?" varies from person to person,
place to place, and with time, and *does* depend on whether you
are a collector of the item, or just like it, or are an antique
dealer, or a scrap dealer.
>Linda
>PS. Oh, and when I have buyer's remorse, I bury the source of
>my aggravation in the back yard, so I'll never have to lay eyes on
>it again. :)
Some archeologist (or dog) is going to have fun.
mcat
I am: mcat at epix dot net
Suxcess
--snip--
Kris Baker <JDK...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> Linda Zinn wrote:
> >
I don't understand the distinction between dealers and collectors
here. Don't dealers look for validation of their purchases? And
don't they have buyer's remorse, just like everyone else? (Only perhaps
more frequently <g>) If you want to call it "looking for appraisals,"
what's the difference whether the person asking is a dealer or not? This
isn't an adversarial-type question...I'd really like to understand
this distinction.
Asking for free valuations will get you what you pay for...nothing.
Gerald Clough
No arguement. Just making distinctions.
I think there's a real distinction between a
dealer asking another dealer about value and an
owner asking.
To be accurate, isn't an appraiser's value
generally sought as an "expert opinion" in the
legal sense that it should be valid for insurance
and other matters where a certified value must be
placed on an object? It is rare, I think, to see
a value query on r.a. for an object that would
justify a professional appraisal fee. In a way,
it seems the appraiser has the easier time (not
that there's not a great deal of work in earning
the fee in serious matters) in that the appraiser
knows what definition of "value" to use.
Now, dealer to dealer, we usually are asking about
experience with that particular object in a
particular market under particular conditons (to
move quickly; to the right person; etc.), and we
both know what we mean by "value" - retail actual
expected selling price. We also, mostly, don't
mind telling each other outright when we think the
other dealer screwed up. I don't necessarily
expect an appraiser to know about that particular
market. I do expect an appraiser to be able to
back up his valuation if I need to file an
insurance claim for $50,000 of contents. Two
different things.
The difference between talking to other dealers
and to just folks, is we just don't know what they
mean by "value", and I don't think they do either,
most of the time.
>
> Asking for free valuations will get
> you what you pay for...nothing.
Asking for a free "appraisal" will get you a
worthless appraisal. Asking a knowledgeable and
disinterested dealer specifically about local
market value may give you a warm feeling (or cold
chill), but the opinion is of no real use unless
you're actually going to sell it and have access
to that market, and, like the professional
appraisal, gives you no guarentee you can readily
sell it for that, except a "likely value" when
it's conditioned on all the variables of the
business.
And, about the best you can hope for by asking for
value on r.a. is either straight out of the book;
what someone bought or sold for somewhere,
sometime; or just a general idea if it has any
significant market value; and maybe an idea if it
justifies a profesional consultation if you want
to make sure it's covered properly by insurance.
--
Gerald Clough clo...@texas.net
"Nothing has any value unless you know you can
give it up."
Linda Zinn
ink.com>:
Organization: Netcom On-Line Services
Distribution:
Suxcess (jo...@inlink.com) wrote:
: > Kris Baker <JDK...@prodigy.com> wrote:
: > > Linda Zinn wrote:
: > > >
: > I don't understand the distinction between dealers and collectors
: > here. Don't dealers look for validation of their purchases? And
: > don't they have buyer's remorse, just like everyone else? (Only
: > perhaps
: > more frequently <g>) If you want to call it "looking for appraisals,"
: > what's the difference whether the person asking is a dealer or not?
: > This
: > isn't an adversarial-type question...I'd really like to understand
: > this distinction.
: Well, there's a BIG distinction. If you seeking a value from a person
: who is a true, certified appraiser (not some auctioneer, dealer, or some
: wanna be with a price guide), and pay for that appraisal, you should
: walk away with a value that's based on local- national- international
: market conditions, provenance research (if possible), and a value from
: someone without a vested interest in screwing you out of the value, and
: happily "...taking it off your hands." Check their credentials.
Heheheh good advice, but I think you missed my point. :)
Context, my dear, context. The original question pertained to
people who ask "value" questions on rec.antiques after they've
bought something. I asked if she'd never bought items on a hunch
and then later asked what they're worth and she said yes and at
some point commented, "I'm not talking about dealers, etc." That
was the distinction I was talking about...as to what difference
it made who *asked* the question, not who *answered* the question. I
apologize if I've confused you. I have that effect on myself
sometimes!
Kris later clarified her original "why do ppl do that?" question
in another post, btw.
: Asking for free valuations will get you what you pay for...nothing.
This is very true. However, many of us in this ng ask each other's
opinions about our "finds." I think most of us realize that
that's exactly what we receive...opinions and not bonafide
appraisals.
Linda