Crown Jewels of Ireland
Tom Bellhouse
I stumbled across a fascinating story about the Irish crown jewels,
which seem to have turned up missing in about 1907. Lots of suspects
and suspected coverups.
What's the "real" story on the theft of the jewels? Have they ever
turned up, or been seen in passing?
Best regards,
Tom Bellhouse
Brunssum, NL
Mike Wilcox
Tom , I have always considered Ronnie as one of the "Crown Jewels of
Ireland" ;~)))
--
Mike Wilcox
Wilcox & Hall Appraisers Online
http://www3.sympatico.ca/appraisers
Tina Sutherland
Mike Wilcox wrote:
That would be for Mrs. Ronnie to comment on.
Or Cyn.
Tina - not sayin a thing
Ronnie McKinley
>What's the "real" story on the theft of the jewels?
Hi Tom, I doubt that I can shed anymore light or disclose any startling
revelations on this subject, certainly no more than you may already know.
I suppose today, as back then in 1907, Frank Shackleton still remains the
prime suspect. Although, (Sir) Arthur Vicars, who denied any involvement
in the crime, was made the official scapegoat. The jewels were kept in
the strongroom at Dublin Castle under the custody of (Sir) Arthur Vicars
then the Ulster King of Arms, the Principal Herald of Ireland, and his
three assistants - Pierce Mahony (Vicars' own nephew) Francis
Bennett-Goldney, and Frank Shackleton, brother of the famed Antarctic
explorer Sir Ernest Shackleton. All four men were forced to resign their
office in 1908 and there was indeed evidence that a cover-up took place.
Vicars and his three assistances indulged in what was described at the
time as "scandalous stag-parties." Further complications, in that Frank
Shackleton, was a practising homosexual, at a time when such behaviour
usually led to secrecy and blackmail, he had a strong "association" with
the Duke of Argyll, who was none other than the King's (King Edward) own
brother-in-law, so nervousness in royal circles over the whole affair was
understandable and the likelihood for a cover-up and conspiracy would
seem reasonable. I think it would be probable that King Edward knew more
than was said about the whole affair, and following the initial
investigations he (Edward) imposed a dictum upon the Government in
Ireland to ensure that the authorities officially ignored the case of the
missing jewels. By all accounts the whole affairs appears to have been an
"inside job" and avoiding further scandal being the prime objective.
It is worth noting that Sir Arthur Vicars was assassinated in 1921,
Pierce Mahony died in 1914, victim of "a strange shooting accident" and
in 1918 Francis Bennett-Goldney died as the result of a motor accident.
Following the death of King Edward, Frank Shackleton, found himself in
severe financial difficulties, was declared bankrupt and was imprisoned
for fraud, after his release he lived under a pseudonym, shrouded in
secrecy and died in obscurity.
>Have they ever
>turned up, or been seen in passing?
In name, at least, successive English kings remained Head of State in
Ireland until 1937. Bear in mind, that these "Irish Crown Jewels" did not
historically have any association with ancient Ireland nor the ancient
Kings of Ireland. The term is one that can lead to confusion, the jewels
were not connected with any coronation ceremony and included no crown.
Rather, they comprised a jewelled star of the Order of St. Patrick
(created by royal warrant in 1783) and a diamond brooch and five gold
collars of that order, all of which, at the time, were Crown property and
introduced into Ireland by the British. Created in 1830 by the Crown
Jewellers, Rundell & Bridge from jewels that had belonged to Queen
Charlotte, the consort of George III.
In about 1976, a file of the Irish government that was declassified for
the first time and contained an intriguing memorandum, dated 1927
"The President (Irish Free State) would not like them [the jewels] to be
used as a means of reviving the Order [of St. Patrick] or to pass into
any hands other than those of the State . . . He understands that the
Castle Jewels are for sale and that they could be got for £2,000
or £3,000. He would be prepared to recommend their purchase for the same
reason."
The memorandum is signed by the Assistant Secretary of the Executive
Council, Michael McDunphy, and the President referred to is William
Cosgrave, President of the Executive Council and Prime Minister of the
Irish State, 1922 to 1932. It would appears from this memorandum that the
"Irish Crown Jewels" may still have been in existence in 1927 and, may
still exist today. Stories abound that the jewels may have been recovered
and found their way into private collections in the United States.
If the jewels still exist, then the question of ownership may be a
controversial point. During the time of Cosgrave, the early existence and
early days of the Irish Free State (ROI), following partition and
independence from the British Crown I don't believe the Irish would have
given a toss about these "Irish Crown Jewels" one way or the other.
Today, however, with a better understanding and a closer relationship
between Britain and Ireland that may not be the case. I suppose legal
ownership would still remains with the British Crown, but no doubt the
ROI would claim ownership or at least the jewels would be Irish State
property. Whatever, I think the jewels would have to remain in Ireland,
either at the National Museum of Ireland in Dublin, or at the Ulster
Museum in Belfast, that in itself would be a fun discussion, god we may
even have to engage the services of dear old George Mitchell to sort it
all out. :)
Personally, I think the IRA (Irish Republican Brotherhood) stole the
Irish Crown Jewels and flogged them off to some Yankee tourist. ;>
Ronnie
=====
Tom Bellhouse
McKinley) wrote:
>In rec.antiques, Tom Bellhouse wrote:
>
>>What's the "real" story on the theft of the jewels?
>
>
>Hi Tom, I doubt that I can shed anymore light or disclose any startling
>revelations on this subject, certainly no more than you may already know.
>
(and then he shed quite a bit of light and revealed a great deal of
information)
>Personally, I think the IRA (Irish Republican Brotherhood) stole the
>Irish Crown Jewels and flogged them off to some Yankee tourist. ;>
>
>
>Ronnie
>=====
Thanks for the reply, Ronnie. What a relief after all the ebay
bullshit ads that've been mounting up on the list!
I always wondered what kind of person would want to own something like
the stolen jewels, or a stolen art masterpiece. Couldn't show it off,
couldn't take pride in ownership, couldn't sell it easily if the need
arose. Couldn't even insure it against theft ... er, yes.
If your theory of the eventual fate of the jewels is correct, we
should probably look in Boston -- or New York -- or Philadelphia -- or
Chicago -- damn, that really narrows it down! I'll keep my eyes open
for them when I'm at boot sales back in the states. ;<)
Best regards, and thanks for the reply.
Tom Bellhouse
Brunssum, NL
mcat
Dooley) wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:48:21 GMT, alt...@brunssum.net (Tom Bellhouse)
>wrote:
>
>>Did I get your attention, Mr. McKinley? ;<)
>>
>>I stumbled across a fascinating story about the Irish crown jewels,
>>which seem to have turned up missing in about 1907. Lots of suspects
>
>Just curious, but how can something "turn up" "missing?" Not
>possible. ;-)
>
>N. (How's life over there, Tom?)
Is that like Dan Rather (US news anchorman) "expecting a surprise" in
the primaries last night?
mcat
(sorry, I can't think of a reasonable antique tie-in.)
Doris Bialas
Tom,I have always considered Ronnie as one of the "Crown Jewels of
Ireland" ;~)))
--
Mike Wilcox
Wilcox & Hall Appraisers Online
http://www3.sympatico.ca/appraisers
That would be for Mrs. Ronnie to comment on.
Or Cyn.
Tina - not sayin a thing
Tina , Isn't that the family jewels,<g> I think I remember many years
ago that Richard
Burton had the family jewels stolen , which could explain Eliza Taylor
looking
around for another husband. IKC.
Doris
Why isn't 11 pronounced
onety one?
Ronnie McKinley
>I always wondered what kind of person would want to own something like
>the stolen jewels, or a stolen art masterpiece. Couldn't show it off,
>couldn't take pride in ownership, couldn't sell it easily if the need
>arose. Couldn't even insure it against theft ... er, yes.
>
HaHaHa .... Iam not so sure about all that, Tom. If there was no market
for high end stolen "works of art" then there wouldn't be any point in
stealing the stuff in the first place. The low end stuff, of course, is
also rife within the antiques trade. I am afraid in many cases it's part
and parcel of the trade itself and (honest) dealers have to be on their
guard at all times.
The crooks that steal such high-end objects aren't half-wits, they know
(at this level of crime) precisely what they are stealing and know their
market place. I think it would be safe to assume, in many cases, they
have stolen the stuff to order and a customer, or customers, are but a
mere phone call away or at least, contacted and set-up by a go-between.
And if all else fails, or the stolen piece/s becomes too hot to handle,
then there is always the insurance company, immoral bastards themselves
that will pay to get the stuff back at the right price and no questions
asked. And also the question of out and out blackmail, the threat by the
thieves to destroy the stuff unless SOMEONE, anyone, pays up.
We here (in Ireland) are in the unfortunate situation that many stolen
"works of art" (State and private) have indeed turned out to be the work
of one of the various paramilitary organizations. The British and Irish
intelligent services have uncovered and foiled quite a number of these
"art" crimes, some with high profile and wide press coverage and others
no doubt well hidden from the gaze of the general public. The fact that
there is and has been ongoing involvement by **all** the paramilitaries
does somewhat keep the lid on, brushing it under the carpet and turning
the blind eye for the fear of losing both eyes. It is really no different
to that of any other organized crime "mob" in any other country. It
happens and that's a fact.
Fancy a "cheap" 16th century Icon?? then a trip to Russia and take your
pick. How about a nice urn from some old guy's tomb? Really no difference
between tomb-treasure, official or unofficial, removed from some other
country and placed in the British Museum or any other Western Museum, or
going into the private collection of some rich fat-cat with a high, well
connected, society rating, but I suppose that's another debate. ;>)
Sure the recipient isn't going to show off the stolen "work of art" to
every Tom (sorry) Dick and Harry but at the same time, a close and chosen
few will get to see the stolen "pride and joy" and mum's the word. In the
end, it merely comes down to personal ethics. Maybe, it is viewed much
like defrauding the large corporate banks, the stock market or the
Government itself, doesn't seem so personal and maybe the recipient can
morally justify it all when there really isn't a private individual or an
individual loss involved. Not that I am condoning crime or theft, just
attempting to address and ponder your questions. :)
Ronnie
=====
Honest Ron's Antique Emporium
=========================
Doris Bialas
He who dies with the most money
and things , WINS, but he's still dead.
Tina Sutherland
Doris Bialas wrote:
> Doris
>
> Why isn't 11 pronounced
> onety one?
Actually in Liz's case I think she was hanging around because of the
Crown jewels. The family jewels might have being fine, but La Liz really
wants the real thing. :-)
Tina - who settles for paste in the crown jewels, but...
Tina Sutherland
Ronnie McKinley wrote:
Great stuff Ronnie, I'd love to read more on this...the motives ect. It got
me to wondering....I know that many famous stones have almost fingerprints,
and can be identified. I assume that is new technology, but if these stones
were to show up today could they be identified? I'm thinking they would have
been taken out of their settings...if so how would anyone know for sure? (
Maybe my ruby is out of the Irish Crown Jewels? )
How do they identify these stones and when did they start doing it?
Tina - striving for antique content
Ronnie McKinley
> Great stuff Ronnie, I'd love to read more on this...the motives ect.
Tina, there are loads of books containing many theories and stories
relating to the "Irish Crown Jewels affair", both factual and fictional,
and if I recall, even a Sherlock Holmes one. If you go to one of those
on-line book thingy sites you should turn up the titles and authors. Or
even better, just visit your local library. ;>
As to motives, if it was Frank Shackleton and his cohorts then money
would have been the motive, if on the other hand, it was the work of the
Irish Republican Brotherhood (later the IRA) then embarrassment
and "up-yours-you-Brit-imperialist" would have been the motive. :)
> How do they identify these stones and when did they start doing it?
>
Can't answer that question but I am sure you are right. It's mostly
likely that the objects were broken up for the stones alone and maybe the
stones could still be identified, however, we would need a gemmologist to
confirm that. As I've already said, Rundell & Bridge the Crown Jewellers,
created the regalia from jewels that had belonged to Queen Charlotte. The
diamonds, rubies, and other stones possibly included the rose diamond
given to the Queen by the Sultan of Turkey and the jewels she received
from Mogul Emperor Shah Alam ... Well connected rich bitch or what??!!??
As a matter of interest, these were not the only or the first "Crown
Jewels of Ireland" to go missing. Other Irish crown jewels existed
c1150s, being supplied by a couple of Popes in Rome to the English Crown.
It was a plot for power (what's new, eh??) involving the only Englishman
to become Pope (Adrian IV) and the English king, Henry II. Both wishing
to rule over Ireland and attempting to strike a deal, but the Pope/s and
Henry fell out, furthermore, Henry offended the Irish chieftains (what's
new, huh!!) and these crown jewels also eventually disappeared this time
into the mist of time itself and long forgotten history. The jewels
consisted of a golden ring, set with a single emerald and a gold crown
adorned with peacock feathers.
Keep your eye out. ;>))
Ronnie
=====
Doris Bialas
Great stuff Ronnie, I'd love to read more on this...the motives ect. It
got me to wondering....I know that many famous stones have almost
fingerprints, and can be identified. I assume that is new technology,
but if these stones were to show up today could they be identified? I'm
thinking they would have been taken out of their settings...if so how
would anyone know for sure? ( Maybe my ruby is out of the Irish Crown
Jewels? )
How do they identify these stones and when did
they start doing it?
Tina - striving for antique content
Your right about how could they be identified if they were taken out of
original
settings. Got any answers Ronnie?
Tom Bellhouse
wrote:
Well folks, things can "turn up missing" if they're lost in Georgia,
or in much of the rest of the Southern USofA.
Nancy, thanks for asking about how things are going over here. We're
fine, the kids are adjusting somewhat, and I go back and forth between
thinking: 1. this is really a great experience, and, 2. this move was
a terrible mistake. ;<) This is a fantastic country, right in the
middle of Western Europe (nearly) and full of Dutchpeople who speak
English well. All the fun of foreign travel, but with the security of
your own native tongue. (Down Cyn!) For an old country boy from the
USA, this is like walking around in a history lesson.
Talk about "antique". Try "antiquities." Did you know that the
Romans built more miles of highway here than the US Interstate system
has? And that many of the roads are still there, in daily use? Stuff
like that blows me away. I'm used to thinking "history" in a
different time frame, like from 1492 on. I understand that after a
while you say "oh well, it's just another castle" (or Roman wall, or
cathedral) but I'm not there yet!
I'm learning a little Dutch, drinking some strange beers (Lambic beers
are very different) and daytripping around the area when we can.
Headed on the train to Amsterdam on Friday, taking my boy out of
school and dragging him off to some dusty old museum. ;<) In my
spare time, trying to find the best coffee in town. I keep going in
these coffeeshops and then come out unable to remember what the coffee
was like. They must put something in the coffee, do you think?
So, to answer the original question, it's different over here.
Something to learn all the time -- usually something you wish you had
already known. You can't go through life on automatic pilot when
you're living in a strange country, and that's good.
Swerving back onto topic --- we did go to Tongerin, Belgium for their
famous Sunday morning antiques. Lots to see, even on a rainy day.
We'll be going back there, as well as to the show in Maastricht this
Spring. It's supposed to be the cream of the cream of decorative
arts, with incredible antiques and art. I'll post about it when it
happens.
Best regards,
Tom
(Ready for a vacation!)
David H. Dean
In 'Lord of the Rings', the 111th birthday of Bilbo Baggins was
referred-to at "eleventy-first".
-dave