What is "Baleek"?
Shane K. Bernard
anyone tell me what this means? (Is it a manufacturer? If so, does it
still exist? Or is it just a generic term for this type of ceramic?)
Please reply to "bern...@bellsouth.net" and not to my phony anti-spam
address, which I used above. Thanks,
S. Bernard
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"Lāche pas la patate"
Kris Baker
>
>I have a ceramic pepper shaker that is identified as being
>Baleek" -- can anyone tell me what this means? (Is it a
>manufacturer? If so, does it still exist? Or is it just a generic
>term for this type of ceramic?)
>Please reply to "bern...@bellsouth.net" and not to my phony
>anti-spam address, which I used above. Thanks,
>S. Bernard
I doubt that the item was identified as "Baleek" -- the
word is "Belleek," most of which was/is made in Ireland
but has also been produced in other countries.
Now that you know the word that you're researching, you
can find more than you'll ever need to know at your local
bookstore or library. Items are dated/valued by the
age/origin of the item, based on the marking and its color.
Kris
Ronnie McKinley
>the
> word is "Belleek," most of which was/is made in Ireland
> but has also been produced in other countries.
>
Which "other" countries has "Belleek" been produced in Kris?
The extensive local deposits of white feldspar and Cornish china clay found in
County Fermanagh and its highly polished iridescent glaze (made under license
from the patentee Jules-Joseph Brianchon of Paris) with a frostlike appearance
contributed to the early success of this factory and it's renowned name. It
can't be made elsewhere and still termed "Belleek" Granted, American, or
Lenox, Belleek, which was/is only an imitation, but NOT "Belleek" :) Produced
by Walter Scott Lenox in about 1889 at the Ceramic Art Company and has been
made by Lenox, Inc., since 1906.
Belleek which was made in Ireland ..... and which now is made in Northern
Ireland Kris, you insult my country :-)
Ronnie
=====
Michele Mauro
Lenox). All three got the formula for Belleek from William Bromley,
along with his sons William and John. They came to NJ in 1882 from the
Belleek factory in Ireland and developed a Belleek with native clay,
with as high a quality as what they'd made in Ireland. So, Belleek was
first made in this country in 1882 by Ott & Brewer, not by Lenox in
1906!
North and South Jersey clays vary in quality, but a lot of good art
pottery has also come out of NJ clay... Fulper, TEPECO (Trenton Pottery
Co), Clifton Art Pottery, and Volkmar, just off the top of my head. And
for high quality porcelain and American Belleek (designed and developed
by the same people who did Irish Belleek ), we had Ott & Brewer, Willets
and Lenox.
Sorry to contradict you, but this time you've insulted my country! And,
we're talking about the state I was born and raised in, so I know a
little something about it! :-)
Have fun! Michele
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Ronnie McKinley wrote in message
<360a8f49...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>...
Rich Maxson
>Sorry to contradict you, but this time you've insulted my country! And,
>we're talking about the state I was born and raised in, so I know a
>little something about it!
what exit? ;-)
--
Rich Maxson
Misery Bay Antiques
Ronnie McKinley
>
>Sorry to contradict you, but this time you've insulted my country! And,
>we're talking about the state I was born and raised in, so I know a
>
My dear Michele, I don't wish to get into yet another pointless argument with
you, however, suffice to say, there is no comparison what-so-ever to the
porcelain and Parian ware made at Belleek and to its imitators in American,
either in the craftsmanship, or style, or in the relationship that existed
between the pottery industry at the time on mainland England and Ireland which
brought about its development in the late 1840s-to mid 1850s. What was brought
to your shores by immigrating Irish workmen was little to do with what was
really happening at the time in Ireland.
As to my "insult" comment you would do best to read that in context.
Kris commented ... "Belleek," most of which was/**is** made in Ireland" ..
I responded with ... "Belleek which was made in Ireland ..... and which now
is made in Northern Ireland Kris, you insult my country :-)" ....
Kris obviously took this as a friendly piece of craic, perhaps you are not
familiar with a previous thread in which Kris and I discussed the
relationships and differences that existed/exist in the Islands over here,
re-reading that may further enlighten you.
Ronnie
=====
Kris Baker
>In rec.antiques Kris Baker wrote:
>>the word is "Belleek," most of which was/is made in Ireland
>>but has also been produced in other countries.
>Which "other" countries has "Belleek" been produced in Kris?
Not insulting your country, Ronnie - but I remember our
infamous go-rounds on Delft ;)
Actually, my references state that Belleek was produced in
Ireland (of course the best <g>), Europe and the USA. There
are items marked "Belleek" that are not Irish - and we don't
know (from the limited amount of info provided by the original
poster whether he has Irish Belleek or something made by
Lenox.
Kris
>
>The extensive local deposits of white feldspar and Cornish china clay
found in
>County Fermanagh and its highly polished iridescent glaze (made under
license
>from the patentee Jules-Joseph Brianchon of Paris) with a frostlike
appearance
>contributed to the early success of this factory and it's renowned name.
It
>can't be made elsewhere and still termed "Belleek" Granted, American,
or
>Lenox, Belleek, which was/is only an imitation, but NOT "Belleek" :)
Produced
>by Walter Scott Lenox in about 1889 at the Ceramic Art Company and has
been
>made by Lenox, Inc., since 1906.
>
>Belleek which was made in Ireland ..... and which now is made in
Northern
>Ireland Kris, you insult my country :-)
>
>
>Ronnie
>=====
Michele Mauro
that you did :-) so I don't know why you took me literally when you
didn't expect to be.
As to workmanship, how much Willets or Ott & Brewer Belleek have you
actually seen from the turn of the century? The quality IS there! I've
yet to see you comment on glass and/or pottery from the USA with
anything but disdain, as if only the British Isles and Europe were
capable of any elegance in these areas. You (as in Europe) have got
Moorcroft and we've got Rookwood, you've got Loetz and Lalique and we've
got LC Tiffany and Steuben.
While I know you can be very helpful here in the ng, there are times
when your jingoistic attitude can be trying at times.
Have fun, Michele
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Ronnie McKinley wrote in message
<360acbb6...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>...
>In rec.antiques Michele Mauro wrote:
>>
>>Sorry to contradict you, but this time you've insulted my country!
And,
>>we're talking about the state I was born and raised in, so I know a
>>little something about it! :-)
>>
>
>My dear Michele, I don't wish to get into yet another pointless
argument with
>you, however, suffice to say, there is no comparison what-so-ever to
the
>porcelain and Parian ware made at Belleek and to its imitators in
American,
>either in the craftsmanship, or style, or in the relationship that
existed
>between the pottery industry at the time on mainland England and
Ireland which
>brought about its development in the late 1840s-to mid 1850s. What was
brought
>to your shores by immigrating Irish workmen was little to do with what
was
>really happening at the time in Ireland.
>
>As to my "insult" comment you would do best to read that in context.
>
>Kris commented ... "Belleek," most of which was/**is** made in Ireland"
..
>
>I responded with ... "Belleek which was made in Ireland ..... and
which now
Ronnie McKinley
> I've
>yet to see you comment on glass and/or pottery from the USA with
>anything but disdain, as if only the British Isles and Europe were
>capable of any elegance in these areas. You (as in Europe) have got
>Moorcroft and we've got Rookwood, you've got Loetz and Lalique and we've
>got LC Tiffany and Steuben.
Total tripe, I slate all rubbish, have given British crap a dogin on many a
occasion, don't post untruths, get your facts right.
When have I ever run down Rookwood, Tiffany or Frederick Carder, have you a
reference for that? Even my friend GK knows I'm a big Rookwood fan.
When have I run down Federal furniture? Search for passed discussions on
Federal furniture, I'm a big fan, of that true American "style"
But I ain't going to praise some crap pressed glass from the 1930s, or
19th/20th century bric-a-brac, either from the U.S of A or the same type of
rubbish from over here, Europe or where it comes from, rubbish is rubbish and
whatever the badge it supports.
>While I know you can be very helpful here in the ng, there are times
>when your jingoistic attitude can be trying at times.
>
Well Michele if ya don't like it, or me, then killfile me, cause I ain't going
to censor my personal comments.
Your comments on Belleek are ridiculous, there's only one Belleek, like there
was only one Tiffany - miss that, and you miss the point of it all.
I will not respond to you any further.
Ronnie
=====
Ronnie McKinley
> Not insulting your country, Ronnie - but I remember our
> infamous go-rounds on Delft ;)
Yes a good one that, eh :) and from that you know that right period, right
origins are very important to me. Delft made in Timbuctoo in the 1920s isn't
the same as Delft made in Holland in the 18th century.
> Actually, my references state that Belleek was produced in
> Ireland (of course the best <g>)
Of course it was. much better than that Timbuctoo stuff.
>There
> are items marked "Belleek" that are not Irish - and we don't
> know (from the limited amount of info provided by the original
> poster whether he has Irish Belleek or something made by
> Lenox.
Not disputing that, but if it ain't Irish then it ain't Belleek, it may as
well be "Baleek" made in Timbuctoo. :)
Ronnie
=====
Slanejess
Trying to get back to the orginal message here. Shane, could the pepper shaker
actually say 'beleek' rather than 'baleek'? There was one company in the U.S.
that marked its wares as such, probably hoping to avoid the legal fight that
took place over the use of the name belleek. Like Wedgewood and RPR Roseville,
some people do get the names confused with the more famous product.
The value of american ceramics marked with 'belleek' or 'beleek' varies
considerable with the decoration. Very ornate, hand-painted examples can be
quite expensive, as a check of ebay will show. However, a single pepper shaker,
without a matching salt, would most likely have minimal value.
I hope this is of some help.
Susan
Patricia V. Lehman
>
> Trying to get back to the orginal message here. Shane, could the pepper shaker
> actually say 'beleek' rather than 'baleek'?
Actually, the word misspelled is meant to be "baleen" rather than
"baleek": the shaker is woven whalebone, a big fad once the 20's killed
the sale of whalebone for corsets. Not too effective, as the pepper
sifts out, but the resulting sneezing was an important impetus both to
the rise of Kleenex brand tissue and the fall of the all-important nasal
douche. A New Mexican company also tried using baleen for porch
furniture, but found it pinched too much, especially at the waist and rib
cage....
Tish
Shane K. Bernard
background on my question:
What I have is a ceramic pepper cruet or shaker that is shaped like an actual red
pepper. The pepper portion is painted red, and the foliage at the base is painted
green. It was manufactured for E. McIlhenny's Son, the forerunner of McIlhenny
Company, which still exists and has manufactured Tabasco brand pepper sauce at Avery
Island, Louisiana, since 1868.
I date the item to 1899-1907, because an antique print ad (from same period) for the
item that came with it refers to Tabasco being made for "over 30 years," and because
in 1907 the name E. McIlhenny's Son was dropped in favor of McIlhenny Company. So
it had to be made sometime during that 8-year window.
The antique print ad that accompanied the item refers to it as being a "Genuine
Balleek [sic] Pepper Cruet" and says that it was made by a well-known _American_
maker of "Balleek" items. (Any idea which company this could be?)
Sincerely,
S. Bernard
Kris Baker
>by a well-known _American_maker of "Balleek" items. (Any idea
>which company this could be?)
>Sincerely,
>S. Bernard
There's absolutely no markings on the cruet itself?
Your item was made after the country of origin was required
to be marked on all items.
"Belleek" (not "Balleek") is a very fine type of porcelain (most
pieces are thin and lightweight), with a pearly, cream-colored
glaze that can best described as looking like it's wet. Your
item doesn't sound at all like that to me ;)
The US company most noted for making Belleek-type wares
is Lenox - but they marked all items, and I've never seen a
red and green one. Even when shaped like a pepper.
Of course, truth-in-advertising may have prevailed at that
time, and your manufacturer WAS the most noted "Balleek"
producer. Being that they may have been the only.
Kris
Shane K. Bernard
> There's absolutely no markings on the cruet itself?
On the bottom of the cruet is printed "McIlhenny's Powdered Tabasco."
The "Balleek" reference appears on the ca. 1899-1907 cruet advertisement
that accompanied the cruet itself, and I render the spelling exactly as it
appears. The ad also states that the cruet was manufactured in the U.S.
The piece is "thin" and "lightwight," and its original unpainted color is
slightly off-white, but most of the exterior is painted bright red and
green -- it also does look "wet" as you stated.
S. Bernard