Who Is Designer IANTHE of England?

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jki...@burgoyne.com

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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Need more info on designer for pricing to sell at auction.
I have a beautiful 13" coal fireplace tool set with intricately
designed Mayflower ships on top of each tool and the stand. The bottom
of stand has inscription Reg. Design, Made in England, IANTHE. The
logo for Ianthe is a round-ended rectangle with "IANTHE" in the
middle. I have found a couple of small Ianthe items on E-Bay (i.e.
silver plated egg cups and a candle holder) but nothing resembling my
coal fireplace tool set. Any information on who Ianthe is or how to
contact the company in England would be greatly appreciated. Found
nothing on my 2 weeks of internet searching.

jon.d2...@ukonline.co.uk

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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"IANTHE" would just have been one of the trillion foundries/metalwork
shops churning out crap from the late Victorian period onwards. Some
ofthese firms still exist in the Midlands today. Hate to say this, but
personally I would not even admit to my closest friend if I was in
possession of such a mass produced set here in the UK.....almost
unsaleable....but $10 on a good day!

It still seems difficult for some contributors to get the scale of
mass production here in the UK from, say, 1880 onwards.I know I don't
often rise to this these days, but to ask about a 'designer' and look
for 'information on IANTHE' shows no understanding whatsoever in the
difference between craftsmanship and crap.....and why on Earth would
you contact the company in England??????[Hello, Mr Jones.....are you
the director of IANTHE Metalworks and Associated Crap Casting
Ltd....yes... could you tell me everything about a wonderful Edwardian
piece of yours I have........do what with it, you say????..sorry the
line is rather bad from the States.......DO WHAT??....well there's no
need to.. (click...Mr Jones slams the phone down and then promptly
wets himself laughing)
Jon
"Tell it like it is antiques"

Please remove the SRICXK before replying by email.

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Ronnie McKinley

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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In rec.antiques, jki...@burgoyne.com wrote:

>Need more info on designer for pricing to sell at auction.
>I have a beautiful 13" coal fireplace tool set with intricately
>designed Mayflower ships on top of each tool and the stand. The bottom
>of stand has inscription Reg. Design, Made in England, IANTHE. The
>logo for Ianthe is a round-ended rectangle with "IANTHE" in the
>middle. I have found a couple of small Ianthe items on E-Bay (i.e.
>silver plated egg cups and a candle holder) but nothing resembling my
>coal fireplace tool set. Any information on who Ianthe is or how to
>contact the company in England would be greatly appreciated. Found
>nothing on my 2 weeks of internet searching.


Designer?? ... catch a grip for godsake!!


Ronnie
=====

colin doncaster

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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What is wrong with being polite to some one who is asking for advice.what a
pair of merchant bankers the other two people?morons morelike. who have
replied to your query must be.<jki...@burgoyne.com> wrote in message
news:38428661...@news.burgoyne.com...

Ronnie McKinley

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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In rec.antiques, "colin doncaster" <colindo...@bun.com> wrote:

>What is wrong with being polite to some one who is asking for advice.what a
>pair of merchant bankers the other two people?morons morelike. who have
>replied to your query must be.<jki...@burgoyne.com> wrote in message

Anybody got a code-breaker?


Ronnie
=====

jki...@burgoyne.com

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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Thanks to those who gave a "normal and helpful" reply to my post. To
you "other mindless jerks" with your inconsiderate and snide remarks -
just goes to show what you're made of!

jon.d2...@ukonline.co.uk

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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>Thanks to those who gave a "normal and helpful" reply to my post. To
>you "other mindless jerks" with your inconsiderate and snide remarks
just goes to show what you're made of!


Yes, it does. Professional antique dealers with many years of
experience who have given countless hours writing articles and posting
photographs to this group for the last five years. Although mostly
pretty tolerant, we are heartily sick of people who consider any mass
produced itemmore than ten years old as 'antique'. Asking about a
'designer' and 'contacting the maker' whilst discussing what must
obviously be a poorly made, factory produced item in ***anyone's***
eyes deserves short shrift. It was a pretentious posting that begged
to be sat on!
Jon

Mindless-jerks-r-us Antiques


Please remove the EBXYQF before replying by email.

Ronnie McKinley

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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In rec.antiques jon.d2...@ukonline.co.uk wrote:

>
>>Thanks to those who gave a "normal and helpful" reply to my post. To
>>you "other mindless jerks" with your inconsiderate and snide remarks
>just goes to show what you're made of!
>
>
>Yes, it does. Professional antique dealers with many years of
>experience who have given countless hours writing articles and posting
>photographs to this group for the last five years. Although mostly
>pretty tolerant, we are heartily sick of people who consider any mass
>produced itemmore than ten years old as 'antique'. Asking about a
>'designer' and 'contacting the maker' whilst discussing what must
>obviously be a poorly made, factory produced item in ***anyone's***
>eyes deserves short shrift. It was a pretentious posting that begged
>to be sat on!
>Jon
>

Well my dear Jon, all well and good .... but asking information so as
he/she can merely price the object for sale at auction, deserves a
good kick in the bollix .... unless there's a few bob in it for us. ;>

Hasn't this person heard of the "no reserve" auction ... Geez, living
under a stone or wot!!


Ronnie
----------
Sugar and Spice Antiques
====================

Patricia Jansma

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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First, I think that many people who read this newsgroup want to learn
(more) about antiques. I also think that learning the value of items is a
part of this business. A lot of people who write asking questions (in this
ng) will be indirectly interested in the value. I don't think anybody
should be 'punished' for saying outright that they want to sell something,
as long as they don't ask the ng for an estimate.
If I am correct, this person wasn't asking for the 'apraisals R us'
service, but for information (on the factory) to do further research
him/herself.

Then the question of taste. We all know that what is beautifull for one,
can be ugly in the eyes of somebody else. Most of us improve our taste and
knowledge bit by bit. Let me know if you want me te elaborate on that. ;)

I hang around this newsgroup to learn, learn, have LOL, and to feel there
are a lot of people around who love with this beautifull profession as much
as I do (and who understand the frustration of never knowing it all, of
making mistakes etc.).

I have a lot of respect for people who have 'earned their spurs' in this
trade. I hope though, there is room in this ng for those (a.o. myself), who
are still learning (sometimes by making mistakes).

Regards,


Excuse-my-English Patricia

Richard Ward

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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Patricia, every once in a while I spot someone who has used an
abbreviation where I can't figure out what it's supposed to stand for.
When you used the term "a.o. myself" I assumed from the context that you
were including yourself in the list, but I haven't been able to come up
with two words beginning with "a" and "o" that would give this
interpretation, the opposite interpretation, or in fact anything that
made any sense. I know it's probably obvious (most of the acronyms I
couldn't figure out have been), but what did it stand for???

Richard Ward

Patricia Jansma

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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a.o. = "among others". (?not a common abreviation in English?)


Regards,

EME (excuse my english) Patricia

Richard Ward

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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I've never actually seen the phrase abbreviated that way, but I will be
the first one to admit I should have been able to figure it out.

Charleen Bunjiovianna

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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In article <38441E3A...@cable.a2000.nl> Patricia Jansma <p.ja...@cable.a2000.nl> writes:
>
>I have a lot of respect for people who have 'earned their spurs' in this
>trade. I hope though, there is room in this ng for those (a.o. myself), who
>are still learning (sometimes by making mistakes).

I hope so, too, otherwise I'll have to leave.

Patricia, you've posted before, so I know you have both sense and a sense
of humor. That, and the desire to learn, are all anyone really needs to
thrive here.

Charleen


JC

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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>>I hope so, too, otherwise I'll have to leave

I'm not going anywhere !
jc
~following the FAQ rules~

Ronnie McKinley

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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In rec.antiques Patricia Jansma wrote:

>First, I think that many people who read this newsgroup want to learn
>(more) about antiques. I also think that learning the value of items is a
>part of this business.

>snip>


Well nobody is stopping you ... deal with the post in question. Tell
the poster all about the "designer" and the telephone and contact
number of the current manufacture, and give a value for the object.
Because to be honest, I think that is all the poster really wants, a
value for auction purpose.

I may have been blunt with the poster, but I see no reason for the
attitude the poster has shown towards Jon and Jon's post. IMO, Jon
gave a honest, straight to the point no messing about response. Maybe
some blood as well would have pleased the poster.

But if you can do better and want to be the r.a on-line valuer go
ahead, the more free values you dish out, the more this ng will become
trashed.

So when they wander in here out of the blue, never having made a post
or a contribution to the ng before and merely want a free appraisal, a
free valuation, a price for their up and coming auction, sure I can
point them to you, they will be most pleased, probably come back with
even a THANK YOU.

Ronnie
=====


JC

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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I was drawn to this NG because it was a discussion group. If someone wants
to discuss value after doing an extensive search and needs someone's
feedback regarding that value, that's one thing. Someone on this list is
bound to comment on it if they want.... Most "value" posts are probably for
commercial purposes, asked without any research or even the common search
engine done to find the information for themselves. I've read detailed posts
here , gone to a search engine and pull up 10 or more sites. That took all
of 1 minute to do. Why can't people do that first , unless they are using
the people here for their own What's it Worth quick pre-sale valuation.?
jc

Patricia Jansma

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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Ronnie --

I understand the posters message as a question for information:

quote:
"Need more info on designer for pricing to sell at auction." .... "Any


information on who Ianthe is or how to contact the company in England would be
greatly appreciated."

end quote

Poster states his/her purpose (selling) , but does not ask for an appraisal,
as far as I can tell. He indicates that he has done his homework (look on the
internet, at e-bay) and that he is looking for information in order to find
out the value by himself. And yes, he wants to sell. But don't we all *in the
end* want to sell?
Of course, like you, I also feel that this newsgroup is not an Appraisers R
us, and I have lots of laughs reading the answers of the ng to people who do
try to get an 'free' appraisal without checking what the 'rules' of the ng are
-- don't understand me wrong.

Regards,

EME Patricia

13 Ghosts

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:58:02 +0100 Patricia Jansma

<p.ja...@cable.a2000.nl> wrote:
> First, I think that many people who read this newsgroup want to learn
> (more) about antiques. I also think that learning the value of items is a
> part of this business. A lot of people who write asking questions (in this
> ng) will be indirectly interested in the value. I don't think anybody
> should be 'punished' for saying outright that they want to sell something,
> as long as they don't ask the ng for an estimate.
> If I am correct, this person wasn't asking for the 'apraisals R us'
> service, but for information (on the factory) to do further research
> him/herself.

> Regards,
> Excuse-my-English Patricia
===
Dear Excusee ;)

Why is it, and this is many years of experience with this ng talking
here (and P. please understand that my subject is not you personally
but with the overall situation) that the vast, vast majority of
pro-free appraisals
people are the ones who don't know jack? ;)

No kidding, P., read my FAQ.
13 Ghosts

See the rec.antiques unofficial FAQ!
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/u2b4/index.html

--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)


Gillam Kerley

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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Patricia Jansma wrote:
>
> a.o. = "among others". (?not a common abreviation in English?)

Not yet, but if you keep using it, perhaps it will be. ;-)

GK

Patricia Jansma

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Dear 13 Ghost,

Thank you for the unofficial faq... as I wrote in my last message (a few minutes

earlier) I don't advocate free-apraisals.

Regards,

Patricia
p.s. you can call me P. if I can call you 13.... ;)
(I send this message only to the ng as your ISP responds with "illegal alias".)

Ronnie McKinley

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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In rec.antiques Patricia Jansma wrote:

> But don't we all *in the
>end* want to sell?

Am I selling anything in this ng? Am I coming on here merely to get
some indication of price for my next up and coming auction sale? Am I
looking a free feckin' lunch ....?? and not just me, many folk here
in this ng, give freely and DISCUSS many subjects without touting
their shite at every given opportunity. And NO! we don't ALL "in the
end" want to sell ... this is NOT the prime purpose of the ng. I hope
it all means a little more to you than merely selling things, or
selling anything or everything.

This is a discussion group. So tell me, what was the point the poster
was trying to raise for discussion? There's no more "information" to
find out, it's a piece of crap and not even antique ... I see no area
for discussion, the poster was simply touting his wares looking for a
price 'cos he/she is clueless and obviously can't even recognize crap
when they see it. The poster thinks this is an information bureau,
well that's my opinion.

BTW ... Do YOU actually know! what this poster has? I think it would
be safe for you to assume, that both Jon and I know precisely what
this piece of crap looks like, it doesn't belong in here.

Ronnie
=====
Up the Lough in a Bubble Antiques
===========================

jon.d2...@ukonline.co.uk

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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>
>BTW ... Do YOU actually know! what this poster has? I think it would
>be safe for you to assume, that both Jon and I know precisely what
>this piece of crap looks like, it doesn't belong in here.
>

>>>>What had really annoyed me just before that posting was that there
was a brand new cast brass candle snuffer on eBay described as
Victorian...and it was getting serious bids! If this was in a UK shop
I would first tell the owner and then if no notice was taken the local
Office of Fair Trading....[can I inform eBay of this flagrant
con?]....there was another one involving brand new horse brasses.....

This sort of action is ruining the genuine metalware trade, as well as
ripping off innocent punters and it is one of the very few things that
make me really mad.

Jon

Please remove the MOMIKQ before replying by email.

Ronnie McKinley

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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In rec.antiques jon.d2...@ukonline.co.uk wrote:

>This sort of action is ruining the genuine metalware trade, as well as
>ripping off innocent punters and it is one of the very few things that
>make me really mad.


You know Jon, I really don't believe anyone in America gives two
flying f***ks. It's appears to me, one could sell their granny in the
States, put her up for auction, (without a reserve of course) and when
the hammer drops the auction room would break into a wild rapturous
applause.


Ronnie
=====
Sad State of Affairs Antiques
======================

Patricia Jansma

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Ronnie,

I have the feeling we are not having a discussion, but a fight, and that,
willingly or not, you understand my answers in a very negative way. I pity
the fact that you do so.
Furthermore, I think the question here has changed from "whether or not
antique dealers want to sell" ;) etc. to the question: can a new person
in the newgroup say: "I think you are not right in reacting this way to
this particular mail".

Regards,

EME Patricia


Ronnie McKinley wrote:

> In rec.antiques Patricia Jansma wrote:
>
> > But don't we all *in the
> >end* want to sell?
>
> Am I selling anything in this ng? Am I coming on here merely to get
> some indication of price for my next up and coming auction sale? Am I
> looking a free feckin' lunch ....?? and not just me, many folk here
> in this ng, give freely and DISCUSS many subjects without touting
> their shite at every given opportunity. And NO! we don't ALL "in the
> end" want to sell ... this is NOT the prime purpose of the ng. I hope
> it all means a little more to you than merely selling things, or
> selling anything or everything.
>
> This is a discussion group. So tell me, what was the point the poster
> was trying to raise for discussion? There's no more "information" to
> find out, it's a piece of crap and not even antique ... I see no area
> for discussion, the poster was simply touting his wares looking for a
> price 'cos he/she is clueless and obviously can't even recognize crap
> when they see it. The poster thinks this is an information bureau,
> well that's my opinion.
>

> BTW ... Do YOU actually know! what this poster has? I think it would
> be safe for you to assume, that both Jon and I know precisely what
> this piece of crap looks like, it doesn't belong in here.
>

Mike Wilcox

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to

That would have to be a 'Livestock Auction' Ronnie, a whole other kettle
of fish ;~)).
--
Mike Wilcox
Wilcox & Hall Appraisers Online
http://www3.sympatico.ca/appraisers

Ronnie McKinley

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to
In rec.antiques Patricia Jansma wrote:

>I have the feeling we are not having a discussion, but a fight, and that,
>willingly or not, you understand my answers in a very negative way. I pity
>the fact that you do so.
>Furthermore, I think the question here has changed from "whether or not
>antique dealers want to sell" ;) etc. to the question: can a new person
>in the newgroup say: "I think you are not right in reacting this way to
>this particular mail".


Look, if you feel so cut up about this and believe the poster has been
"hard done by", then YOU deal with the poster - YOU answer his/her
post - YOU enter into a meaningful "discussion" with the poster. But
so far, YOU have failed to respond to the poster, (within the ng at
least) instead, you have chosen to respond to me. Are you just some
kind of devil's advocate? ... defender of the helpless and clueless?

.... so, answer the poster, provide the further "information" he/she
is so desperately seeking and be done with it!!

Me, I think it's bloody pointless. I believe the poster has already
received honest and professional advise, and all for free, if the
poster didn't like it, then tough cookie.

----------------------------------- <----- See that Patricia?
that's what I "think" of the subject


Ronnie
=====
Mindless Jerk Antiques
==================

Ronnie McKinley

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to


I believe the French have placed a ban on the UK selling grannies into
the rest of the EU .... so we are looking for alternative markets, now
it would appear, we'll have to look a little further? ;>)


Ronnie
=====
Rent a Granny Antiques
==================

David H. Dean

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Most of your grannies are a bit bananas & we all know the problems our
respective governments have with the banana trade.

Speaking of trade... >=^)

-dave


Tina Sutherland

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Ronnie McKinley wrote:
>
> I believe the French have placed a ban on the UK selling grannies into
> the rest of the EU .... so we are looking for alternative markets, now
> it would appear, we'll have to look a little further? ;>)
>

> Ronnie
> =====
> Rent a Granny Antiques
> ==================

Well don't ask the World Trade Organization to deal with the situation!!!
For those who haven't come up for air in awhile, the WTO is in Seattle
and the peaceful protests got out of hand and my city is under Martial
Law...really. The whole of Downtown is closed off and there are police
lines and tear gas in the streets.
There has been a lot of destruction and looting already and the WTO
doesn't leave till the end of the week.
My shop is in the north end of town and not affected, except that many
downtown shop owners came by yesterday because they were shut out.
Tina - be careful out there

JC

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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So this is Xmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Xmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas
For weak and for strong
For rich and the poor ones
The world is so wrong
And so happy Xmas
For black and for white
For yellow and red ones
Let's stop all the fight

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear
War is over, if you want it

Ronnie McKinley

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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In rec.antiques Tina Sutherland wrote:

> For those who haven't come up for air in awhile, the WTO is in Seattle
>and the peaceful protests got out of hand and my city is under Martial
>Law...really. The whole of Downtown is closed off and there are police
>lines and tear gas in the streets.
> There has been a lot of destruction and looting already and the WTO
>doesn't leave till the end of the week.


My God Tina are ya alright!!??!! Do you need reinforcements??
Hey, it sounds more like West Belfast, than sleepy Seattle ... except
"tear gas" is illegal over here, haven't the cops over there got any
plastic baton rounds? That'll scare the crap out of the rioters.


BANG!! WHIZZ! .. LOOK OUT! .. WHICH WAY IT THAT ONE HEADED??

Ronnie
=====
CS-Gas and Curfew Antiques
--------------------------------------------

Tina Sutherland

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Well, I'd hardly compare our situation to yours, but they are using
tear gas and pepper spray and rubber bullets. This morning seems
quieter, but the National Guard is arriving and we'll have a ton of
police out there on the streets.
Yup, it's not so sleepy in Seattle. The curfew is off for now, but who
knows what happens next.
Tina - glad for once to be out of the action

Patricia Jansma

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to
Totally agree with you that this has got a bit out of hand. Shall *try* not to
defend 'the helpless and clueless' anymore (better to leave it up to them to
defend their own case).

EME Patricia
p.s. LOL about JC's "so this is christmas" remark.

Mike Wilcox

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Ronnie wrote,

>
> I believe the French have placed a ban on the UK selling grannies into
> the rest of the EU .... so we are looking for alternative markets, now
> it would appear, we'll have to look a little further? ;>)
>
> Ronnie
> =====
> Rent a Granny Antiques
> ==================

It probably relates to those "Mad Granny" attacks on hapless young
people reported by the Python gang ;~))

Ronnie McKinley

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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In rec.antiques Tina Sutherland wrote:

> Well, I'd hardly compare our situation to yours, but they are using
>tear gas and pepper spray and rubber bullets.


Geez, it's as quiet as a mouse over here, haven't ya heard .... it's
a B I G day here tomorrow.

Stay loose, Tina ... I just heard on the old tom-toms they are flying
George Mitchell up to Seattle ... you'll be alright now. ;>)

Ronnie
=====
Tearless in Belfast
==============

Roy Dennis

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Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
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Only on the bone!

--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Deadstock Auctions

Ronnie McKinley <rmck...@glenbourne.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote in message
news:38451e7a...@news.freeserve.net...


> In rec.antiques Mike Wilcox wrote:
>

Marshall Schuon

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Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
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On Wed, 01 Dec 1999 00:34:19 +0100, Patricia Jansma
<p.ja...@cable.a2000.nl> wrote:

>Dear 13 Ghost,
>
>(You can call me P. if I can call you 13.... ;)


>(I send this message only to the ng as your ISP responds with "illegal alias".)

_______

I love it, T. -- an illegal alias! Always knew you had it in ya, kid.

Marshall
Mind your P's and T's

Marshall Schuon

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Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
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On Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:43:06 GMT, rmck...@glenbourne.fsnet.co.uk
(Ronnie McKinley) wrote:

>
>You know Jon, I really don't believe anyone in America gives two
>flying f***ks. It's appears to me, one could sell their granny in the
>States, put her up for auction, (without a reserve of course) and when
>the hammer drops the auction room would break into a wild rapturous
>applause.
>
>Ronnie
>=====

Coming late to this thread, and I don't know what it's about because I
was away. But my granny always *liked* my flying forelock because it
gave her yet another chance to tell me to get a haircut (this, when
she wasn't asking "Why are you SO shy?") At the time, I gladly would
have put her on the block, but I do have to dispute one thing.
Granny, when she wasn't chiding me, did have reserve. Now. What are
we talking about?

Marshall

D.M.Mackel

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
Roy Dennis wrote:
>
> Only on the bone!

That's all that's left of my granny.

--
Delboy
who has an excellent taste in furniture
balanced with a complete lack of it in humour

D.M.Mackel

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to

I've been following this thread and all I can say is that looking on
e-bay is hardly what I would call an "extensive search". The original
poster obviously doesn't recognise a simple trademark or maunfacturing
stamp for what it is. I think that people took umbrage at the term
"designer" being used for what sounds very much like a mass-produced
product and the sort of thing that I might have put a tongue in cheek
price on in the junkshop extension of my shop (if I still had it), and
that would stay there until the next local general auction unless I sold
it beforehand.

The whole problem with the antiques game is that so many people feel
that they have something of real value just because it looks old to
them, or because they dug it out from great aunt Esmerelda's house
before the funeral. They might look it up in Miller's Guide and believe
that they have exactly the same item and believe the optimistic
valuations in there as being realisable. Then they want a dealer to buy
at that price, forgetting that the true value of anything is what a
buyer is prepared to pay.

The item in question in this post was obviously not of earth-shattering
importance to the culture of the English-speaking world (nor any other)
and really just deserves a best guess by the seller. It's the sort of
thing that anyone can buy new today from all sorts of shops in the UK
and, I would guess, other countries.

Sounded to me as though they wanted to price it for e-bay. Personally,
I never buy anything sight unseen unless I have a direct route to
reclaim my money. In this game there too many fakes doing the rounds,
some are deliberate fakes, others are poor descriptions by the
ill-informed or the deceptive.

--
Delboy

Ronnie McKinley

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
In rec.antiques D.M.Mackel wrote:

>Roy Dennis wrote:
>>
>> Only on the bone!
>
>That's all that's left of my granny.
>

>Delboy
>who has an excellent taste in furniture
>balanced with a complete lack of it in humour


Delboy? ... oh! Trotter Enterprises?


Ronnie
=====


Ronnie McKinley

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
In rec.antiques Marshall Schuon wrote:

> Now. What are
>we talking about?


Er .. just the usual old shite, Marshall ... never mind.


Ronnie
=====
Ye Olde Poker Antiques
==================


Marshall Schuon

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to

Hee hee. Right up my alley.

Marshall
Ever the straight man


Ronnie McKinley

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
In rec.antiques "D.M.Mackel" wrote:

>not snipped>


Welcome to rec.antiques, Delboy. I hope to god you are an American. ;>

Excellent post ... rave on.


Ronnie
=====
Street-Wise Antiques
=================


Maryann

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
It brings back memories of the 60's--anti-war protests and civil
rights rallies. I have been spit on, tear gased and run over by a
policeman on a horse. I wish some times that I was still that
passionate about issues but I guess that age does bank the fires a
bit.

Maryann

Tina Sutherland

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
Well it's continuing here today, and it looks like for the rest of the
week. And things are getting uglier. They closed off downtown and then
had people go to the next neighborhood over. That area wasn't off limits
and was far from the WTO folks, but there was tear gas, ect. all through
the night, with the people who live there getting police "treatment".
Now they are arresting hundreds, and maybe because Clinton is here the
police and national guard are really taking over. It's amazing and
awful. I never expected to see such things in my town. If any of you
live where they are planning to bring in a big event learn from this.
Political Conventions and the Olympics have been talked about for
Seattle. Now people won't stand for it.
I have heard about your "Big Day" and I'm hoping for good things too. I
feel like I'm complaining about my steak to a starving man, but we are
getting a tiny taste of what life has been for you and I don't want it.
And neither do you.
Lets ALL be careful out there.
Tina

Tina Sutherland

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to

I think many folks agree with you, nice to see that much passion, ect.
The problem came when behind the peaceful protesters where were thugs.
Dressed in black and ready to destroy. They broke glass, looted and
spray painted everything standing still. They didn't have a issue with
the WTO, they didn't know anything about it. So the (many!) peaceful
protesters got overshadowed and their messages lost behind all of this
ugliness. I'm sure this will be getting press for awhile, but just now
everybody I've talked to is just sorta stunned and confused. Who do you
be mad at? The WTO? The protesters? Nobody is blaming them. We weren't
even mad at the police till last night...they had been pretty controlled
till yesterday, but now the power seems to have got to their heads and
they are getting out of hand. And sure, we can all be mad at the
thugs...but who are they?
I also have marched the streets...but nobody ever tear gasses
nurses.:-) And the protests are a good thing...but I own my little shop
and am glad we aren't downtown. Other shop owners I know are and they
may or may not be able to survive this. I guess my fires are banked a
bit now too. No matter how good the cause I don't want my shop
vandalized, and it's sad to see it happen to others.
I will get off my soap box now.
Tina

Maryann

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to

Tina
It is such a shame when thugs ruin things for peceful sincere people.
I think one of the things I remember with gladness about the crazy
time in the 60's is how little bad stuff was done by the protestors.
(Lots of bad stuff by the police and by-standers!!) I was in
washington, DC at a anti-war march where there was maybe 200,000+ and
the only damage done was litter (not enough trashcans and never enough
porta-potties!) and the wear and tear on the grass etc. from the shear
number of marching feet. I was a parade marshall and stationed in
front of a government building and had my picture taken from the roof
of the building with Dr. Spock and Julie Newmar!! I suppose that I am
in the FBI files somewhere but in those two pictures I am sure no one
will notice me.

Maryann

colin doncaster

unread,
Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
to
like I said before,there are a lot of merchant bankers about.He was only
asking for advice.We are all fellow travellers in the river of life
<pwr...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:3847ABFE...@pacbell.net...
>
>
> 13 Ghosts wrote:
>
> > Why is it, and this is many years of experience with this ng talking
> > here (and P. please understand that my subject is not you personally
> > but with the overall situation) that the vast, vast majority of
> > pro-free appraisals
> > people are the ones who don't know jack? ;)
> >
> > No kidding, P., read my FAQ.
> > 13 Ghosts
>
> Sorry to butt in, but why else would they ask?
> Rhiannon 8-)
> --------------------------------------------------
> The children of Israel wandered around
> the desert for 40
> years. Even in biblical times, men
> wouldn't ask for
> directions.
>
> >
> >
> > See the rec.antiques unofficial FAQ!
> > http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/u2b4/index.html
> >
> > --
> > Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
> > Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
>

jki...@burgoyne.com

unread,
Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
to
Let this poster set the record straight - once and for all!
I am NOT seeking any FREE information nor did I ask for a value, nor
did I seek the many snide remarks within this newsgroup. I simply had
never heard of Ianthe and wanted to know who he, she, it was. I did
not know my item was mass produced. I spent many hours researching on
the internet looking for info on Ianthe. When I found absolutely
NOTHING about the company, I mistakenly turned to this newsgroup.


On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:35:28 GMT, rmck...@glenbourne.fsnet.co.uk
(Ronnie McKinley) wrote:

>Well nobody is stopping you ... deal with the post in question. Tell
>the poster all about the "designer" and the telephone and contact
>number of the current manufacture, and give a value for the object.
>Because to be honest, I think that is all the poster really wants, a
>value for auction purpose.
>
>I may have been blunt with the poster, but I see no reason for the
>attitude the poster has shown towards Jon and Jon's post. IMO, Jon
>gave a honest, straight to the point no messing about response. Maybe
>some blood as well would have pleased the poster.
>
>But if you can do better and want to be the r.a on-line valuer go
>ahead, the more free values you dish out, the more this ng will become
>trashed.
>
>So when they wander in here out of the blue, never having made a post
>or a contribution to the ng before and merely want a free appraisal, a
>free valuation, a price for their up and coming auction, sure I can
>point them to you, they will be most pleased, probably come back with
>even a THANK YOU.
>
>
>
>Ronnie
>=====
>


13 Ghosts

unread,
Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:00:54 -0000 "colin doncaster"
<colindo...@bun.com> wrote:
> like I said before,there are a lot of merchant bankers about.He was only
> asking for advice.We are all fellow travellers in the river of life
===
Colin, are you calling me names?
You may find yourself out of your depth
if that is what you are about. ;)

Listen, my knowledge belongs to me. I own it.
I worked for it, I earned it. It's mine to do
with as I please.
Yours belongs to you. You do with it what you please.

So far you have not contributed one positive thing
to this group. Your posts are what?
A For Sale advert and some bitching.
Period.
Forgive me if I am unimpressed with
the demonstration of what you have
to offer.

I suggest that you put your oar in the water
and row with us, put your back into it and do
some of the work that is required. If you can.
Are you just lying back on your fat
butt, a passenger, a parasite riding along
thanks to the work others have done?
Or are you willing and able to do something
besides bitch and ignore the FAQ?
;)
13 Ghosts

colin doncaster

unread,
Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
to
Is there any chance that the 13 ghosts could go and haunt another group?
All this lot started by someone mistakenly thinking that a group entitled
rec.antiques was the place to enquire about a bit of old brass.he didn't ask
to be insulted,he asked for advice from this group.shame on all of you who
ridiculed him.Or am I out of my depth again!
regards
colin doncaster

13 Ghosts <13Gh...@go.com> wrote in message
news:9NZ14.7360$Mg.1...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com...

13 Ghosts

unread,
Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99
to
Colin, you are still just bitching and you have yet
to make one positive contribution to this group.
I am not going to waste a lot of my time on you, either.
We have seen your kind here a thousand times.
If you want to hand out free appraisals, if you want
to dazzle us with your knowledge of antiques,
go for it. Who is stopping you? Nobody.
If you want to make this group into something
more of your liking, then do it with something
besides this impotent whining you are doing.
Do it with your positive contributions.
If you can.

And pardon me, Colin, if I decline to speak to you
any further on this subject. If you want to talk
antiques, great. But I have wasted a lot of my
time and a lot of this group's time on whiney
little know nothings in the past and it is
a losing game. I have found that you cannot
use logic to convince the stupid of anything.
I don't know if you are stupid or not, but you
sure are whiney.

So, you are on your own now. It's just you
and your ability to make positive contributions
to the group. Let's see what you can do besides
whine and post For Sale advertisements.

Ronnie McKinley

unread,
Dec 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/6/99
to
In rec.antiques jki...@burgoyne.com wrote:

>Let this poster set the record straight - once and for all!
>I am NOT seeking any FREE information nor did I ask for a value

In rec.antiques jki...@burgoyne.com wrote:
>Need more info on designer for pricing to sell at auction.

Ronnie
=====

JC

unread,
Dec 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/6/99
to
Colin,
That's way more than we needed to know! Thanks for letting us know you have
knowledge regarding motorbikes and old cars. If that is so, please take a
look at the thread that Marshal posted about his old Chevy. More than one
head is always welcome.
jc


colin doncaster <colindo...@bun.com> wrote in message
news:384c5...@news1.cluster1.telinco.net...
> Dear 13 ghosts.i did'nt realise there was only one of you! you reckon you
> don't want to waste time on such as me but you certainly keep rising to
the
> bait.
> question--how else do i find out about antiques unless i ask?>
> if having asked, i got the response that was dished out to the bloke
who
> wanted to know something about his brass companion set by you and your
> hoppo's, i never will get to know owt!.
> another thing, i did'nt know it was objectionable to advertise something
for
> sale on a newsgroup.it certainly seems to have got up your nose! at least
i
> never fell into the trap of asking you lot to value it for me.
> reference the impotent whining [your words]. most folks at my age [63]are
> impotent anyway.mine,s not through wine though.
> bass or tetleys more like.
> i tried viagra but all i got was a stiff neck!. the quack says it usually
> works itself down.
> antiques apart,if you need advice about oldish cars or motorbikes i,m
> your man,no conditions or restrictions i promise to be obliging to
> allthirteen of you
> regards
> colinl


> 13 Ghosts <13Gh...@go.com> wrote in message

> news:N5i24.7883$Mg.1...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com...

Mari miller

unread,
Dec 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/6/99
to
Colon,
You seem like a very dear man with a sense of humor, an eye for
fairness and a grip on reality. There are some other shining examples
such as yourself in this group. After the venting I just posted, I'm
afraid I don't qualify. I'm going to lurk for awhile, rather than post
"shite for the sake of posting". Stick around, the saga of Cyn and the
mating of Marshall is enough to put viagra out of business. Well worth
reading. (I never miss a post) I'll bet you and carguy would have a lot
worth discussing. (if he doesn't have 4 on the floor!) Keep a stiff
upper...whatevers next!
mari...exit=stage left.


colin doncaster

unread,
Dec 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/7/99
to

Cyanogirl

unread,
Dec 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/7/99
to

But there *are* some very potent 63-year-olds out there. Good luck with the
neck. ;)

David H. Dean

unread,
Dec 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/8/99
to
This is a length of the river that one should walk & take note of the
hazards before blindly rowing-on. There are loads of places on the
river where it is wiser to look before leaping.

-dave

On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:00:54 -0000, "colin doncaster"
<colindo...@bun.com> wrote:

>like I said before,there are a lot of merchant bankers about.He was only
>asking for advice.We are all fellow travellers in the river of life

><pwr...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:3847ABFE...@pacbell.net...
>>
>>
>> 13 Ghosts wrote:
>>
>> > Why is it, and this is many years of experience with this ng talking
>> > here (and P. please understand that my subject is not you personally
>> > but with the overall situation) that the vast, vast majority of
>> > pro-free appraisals
>> > people are the ones who don't know jack? ;)
>> >
>> > No kidding, P., read my FAQ.
>> > 13 Ghosts
>>
>> Sorry to butt in, but why else would they ask?
>> Rhiannon 8-)
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> The children of Israel wandered around
>> the desert for 40
>> years. Even in biblical times, men
>> wouldn't ask for
>> directions.
>>
>> >
>> >

thomp...@gmail.com

unread,
Nov 20, 2015, 5:13:37 PM11/20/15
to
On Monday, November 29, 1999 at 8:00:00 AM UTC, jki...@burgoyne.com wrote:
> Need more info on designer for pricing to sell at auction.
> I have a beautiful 13" coal fireplace tool set with intricately
> designed Mayflower ships on top of each tool and the stand. The bottom
> of stand has inscription Reg. Design, Made in England, IANTHE. The
> logo for Ianthe is a round-ended rectangle with "IANTHE" in the
> middle. I have found a couple of small Ianthe items on E-Bay (i.e.
> silver plated egg cups and a candle holder) but nothing resembling my
> coal fireplace tool set. Any information on who Ianthe is or how to
> contact the company in England would be greatly appreciated. Found
> nothing on my 2 weeks of internet searching.

Sorry for the rudeness you have experienced, this is not typical of the English but you found yourself some thoroughly arrogant and horrible people. The answer to your question in Ianthe was a trademark of Ian Heath Ltd of Birmingham, England.

penni...@gmail.com

unread,
Nov 16, 2016, 1:51:12 PM11/16/16
to

Loudon Briggs

unread,
Nov 18, 2016, 10:53:40 AM11/18/16
to
Sorry!

"IANTHE" would just have been one of the trillion foundries/metalwork
shops churning out crap from the late Victorian period onwards. Some
ofthese firms still exist in the Midlands today. Hate to say this, but
personally I would not even admit to my closest friend if I was in
possession of such a mass produced set here in the UK.....almost
unsaleable....but $10 on a good day!"
--
Loudon Briggs lar...@bbz.net Phoenix, Arizona, USA)

julia....@ft.com

unread,
Jun 22, 2017, 8:16:57 AM6/22/17
to
On Monday, 29 November 1999 08:00:00 UTC, jki...@burgoyne.com wrote:
> Need more info on designer for pricing to sell at auction.
> I have a beautiful 13" coal fireplace tool set with intricately
> designed Mayflower ships on top of each tool and the stand. The bottom
> of stand has inscription Reg. Design, Made in England, IANTHE. The
> logo for Ianthe is a round-ended rectangle with "IANTHE" in the
> middle. I have found a couple of small Ianthe items on E-Bay (i.e.
> silver plated egg cups and a candle holder) but nothing resembling my
> coal fireplace tool set. Any information on who Ianthe is or how to
> contact the company in England would be greatly appreciated. Found
> nothing on my 2 weeks of internet searching.


Ianthe - Trdemark of Ian Heath Ltd of Birmingham from 1952 - http://www.925-1000.com/silverplate_I.html

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forth...@gmail.com

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Oct 20, 2017, 11:33:41 AM10/20/17