Trivia Quiz (After Phyfe try Stickley)
Roy Dennis
Duncan Phyfe (with one f) trivia question.
Now please try this.
Why does furniture by Gustav Stickley fetch mega
bucks at all the major auctions?
(Looks like British 1940s utility furniture IMO)
Have fun.
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Educated customers are better customers
Esengo
>Why does furniture by Gustav Stickley fetch mega
>bucks at all the major auctions?
>
>(Looks like British 1940s utility furniture IMO)
No, no, no.....true Stickley (not imitation wanna be Stickley) represents a
simplicity and trueness of form that is defiantly pure and beautiful compared
to the overwrought schmaltzy Victorian mass produced furniture that preceeded
it.
I'd love to discuss Frank Lloyd Wright also (being a Wisconsin girl I have
great pride and affinity for Wright) but he would technically exceed the time
boundaries artificially established by this group. In any case, their styles
are similar in their cleanness.
See ya!
LF
Ronnie McKinley
> I'd love to discuss Frank Lloyd Wright also (being a Wisconsin girl I have
>great pride and affinity for Wright) but he would technically exceed the time
>boundaries artificially established by this group.
Who FLW?? .... no he wouldn't!!! ... well ok "technically" by nine years,
however, surely the body of his work, and his imaginative creative years
falls clearly and appropriately within the imposed dateline of this ng.
Just leave out discussing the Guggenheim project, well actually the
building phase bit of it, I don't see why you or anybody else can't
discuss FLW .... beats bloody Alfred Merkin's day out at yabe.
Ronnie
=====
"Rave on, John Donne"
================
Tsu Dho Nimh
>Why does furniture by Gustav Stickley fetch mega
>bucks at all the major auctions?
Because it is scarce, and he lebelled the stuff he made. that
gives the collectors a limited number of pieces.
Tsu Dho Nimh
When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
your kid and run for your life.
Ronnie McKinley
>Why does furniture by Gustav Stickley fetch mega
>bucks at all the major auctions?
Maybe you should rephrase that question, Roy.
Ronnie
=====
jc
area. The arches, door frames, fireplace surrounds, window benches, stair
cases , etc are done in quarter sawn oak. It's a style favored by my
husband. Nothing ornate, just very clean lines.....
http://www.dscweb.com/stickly.html
ARTS AND CRAFTS (MISSION)
-Arts and Crafts movement was popular from 1890's to 1920's.
-simple, often austere, linear designs.
-emphasis on craftsmanship with exposed mortise and tenon joints, corbels.
-reaction against cheap, mass-produced, machine made furniture.
-oak most common wood used for construction; usually quarter-sawn which
produces distinctive "tiger" grain.
-oak often "fumed" with exposure to ammonia to produce a patina.
-sometime hand-hammered copper hardware (usually with dark patina; not
polished).
-popular manufacturers included Gustav Stickley, Roycrofters, Charles
Limbert.
jc
jc
others are noted noted for.......
American Arts and Crafts furniture was the first to reconcile
handcraftsmanship with machine technology. During this movement, which
flourished during the early 20th century, the design, the manufacture, and
the assembly of a piece of furniture became an integrated process. Simple
forms, straight lines and lack of ornament were well suited for mass
production. At the same time, the use of machines for laborious and
repetitive tasks freed-up craftsmen for distinctive hand assembly.
Groundwork for the Arts and Crafts Movement had been laid in England during
the 1880s by the writings of John Ruskin and William Morris, who believed
that well-built furniture revealed the "true dignity of labor." Furthermore,
Morris said the use of beautiful furniture would lead to harmonious
environments and relieve the so-called alienation of the Industrial
Revolution. Thus, furniture was given a "mission" -- social reform.
But Ruskin and Morris rejected what they called the "evils of
machinisation." They cited the "moral superiority" of handcrafted
furniture -- one piece/one man -- over other products of the industrial age,
which they said dehumanized the factory worker. Morris' goal was to restore
the medieval "guild" status of the craftsman.
Morris earned his reputation, not for furniture design, but for the ground
rules he set. Furniture made in his shop, Morris & Co., was not outstanding
or innovative, nor did it make important contributions to the development of
design. However, as author Paul Thompson has written, Morris & Co.'s work,
"has fundamental integrity, respect for material and quality of workmanship.
His call for simplicity É has proved inspirational."
English Arts and Crafts had no clearly defined style. Ideas and
characteristics of past styles were used freely. In addition, allied
artisans and craftsmen used each others' carvings, stained glass, repoussé
panels, inlays, and metalwork, which added variety but not definition.
Eastlake -- English architect, author and artist
Charles Locke Eastlake's best-selling 1868 book, Hints on Household Taste in
Furniture, became enormously influential in the United States in the 1870s.
Sketches of furniture with shallow carving, marquetry, pierced designs, and
turned spindles were included. The book sparked demands for functional and
sound furniture designed according to Eastlake's dictates for good taste.
Eastlake disapproved of the curving forms of Rococo revival furniture and
advocated a return to simple joined and "honest" (i.e., visible)
construction. He said ornament should always be related to function.
Eastlake disliked the use of stain and varnish and favored oil-rubbed
furniture. His book also recommended that furniture be made of solid wood --
oak, walnut or mahogany.
Until 1900, manufactured furniture that was rectilinear in form, made of
contrasting woods, inlaid, spindled, incised, relief carved and ebonized,
was known as Art Furniture, Eastlake, or East Lake. Eastlake is not known to
have built or designed furniture commercially, however, and was not pleased
to see his name later associated with a generic "Eastlake" style. "I should
be very sorry to be considered responsible for this," he is quoted as
saying.
Even though he agreed with the leaders of the Arts and Crafts Movement in
theory (i.e., the joy of labor, the dignity of work), Eastlake recognized
the role of the machine and the value of mass production in making furniture
affordable to more people. Eastlake was a bridge between William Morris
(whose motto was "Perfection of Craftsmanship") and including advocates of
the machine Gustav Stickley and Frank Lloyd Wright.
From idealism to pragmatism
Arts and Crafts was more successful in America than it ever was in Great
Britain when Americans revised the original English Arts and Crafts idealism
into a more practical working plan. Among those taking up the banner were
Stickley and Elbert Hubbard, both extraordinary entrepreneurs.
A one-time soap salesman, Hubbard founded Roycroft in 1895 in East Aurora,
New York, as a utopian craft guild based directly on Morris' writings. Some
500 persons settled in the community where the main occupation was printing
and bookbinding. To furnish the inn and shops, the Roycrofters began to make
furniture. It was heavy, predominantly oak furniture, fastened with pins,
pegs, mortise and tenon, finished with a dark reddish-black stain, and
polished to a high sheen. This furniture exhibits influences from English
Arts and Crafts prototypes, particularly the bulbous foot of A. H. Mackmurdo
origin.
Within 10 years, Roycroft furniture was sold through catalogs and eventually
in major department stores. Hubbard was more marketing genius than furniture
designer, however, and apparently left the fine points of design to others.
The most versatile Roycroft craftsman was Dard (or David) Hunter, described
as architect, designer, artist, sculptor, cabinetmaker, coppersmith and iron
worker. Work attributed to him includes an oak side chair with carved
inscription on the back.
A&C in Grand Rapids
Probably the earliest Arts and Crafts furniture built in America was an 1894
chair made in Grand Rapids. David Kendall of the Phoenix Furniture Co.
designed a simple, comfortable chair with a curved front apron, cane back
and seat and wide armrests. Made of oak and stained green, it became known
as the McKinley Chair after President William McKinley put one in the White
House. The McKinley chair was in production for 30 years. Kendall was
considered the dean of more than 200 designers practicing in Grand Rapids at
the turn of the century. In 1928 the Kendall School of Design was
established in his name.
In Grand Rapids, the major Arts and Crafts manufacturers were Charles P.
Limbert Co. and Stickley Bros. Albert and J. G. Stickley's early designs
were influenced by Art Nouveau, and they produced a wide range of furniture
that was not exclusively Arts and Crafts. D. Robertson Smith was their
designer.
Limbert produced furniture strongly influenced by the designs of Scottish
designer and architect Charles Rennie Mackintosh: tables with oval tops and
wide, canted sides with square cut-outs, cafe chairs and bedroom pieces. In
1903, Limbert combined Art Nouveau-styled stained glass with a massive Arts
and Crafts buffet. A Limbert dining chair (1906) incorporates a tall back
with square spindles that go almost to the floor, in Prairie style.
Other Grand Rapids manufacturers working in Arts and Crafts style included:
Grand Rapids Desk Co., Grand Rapids Bookcase and Chair Co., Berkey & Gay
Furniture, Luce Furniture, C. S. Paine Co., Sligh, and Michigan Chair, which
showed quarter-sawn oak chairs and spindle-sided tables in its 1898 catalog.
Stickley's strengths
It was Gustav Stickley, however, who is recognized as the principal force
behind the Arts and Crafts Movement in America. Stickley has been called the
first of the Machine Age designers. He recognized that certain basic and
repetitive tasks were more efficiently done by machine to save energy and
time for fine craftsmanship and detailed assembly. In Stickley's Craftsman
furniture, exposed pegs, through tenons and dovetails of its joinery, were
used as design details. In order to keep furniture "honest," no part of the
construction was hidden.
The Craftsman magazine, created and edited by Stickley from 1901-1916,
included plans for furniture and lessons in cabinetmaking and emphasized
Stickley's straightforward approach to construction. An essential source of
information, The Craftsman also was tremendously influential in spreading
Arts and Crafts philosophy.
Before opening his Craftsman Workshops in Eastwood, New York, Gustav
Stickley had traveled to Europe where he met C.F.A. Voysey and other
designers who urged him to quit making colonial-style furniture. At a
turn-of-the-century Furniture Exposition in Grand Rapids, then the center of
the furniture industry, Stickley offered the nation its first peek at modern
furniture when he introduced rectilinear furniture made of solid oak and
strongly influenced by Arts and Crafts principles: simplicity, utility and
honest construction.
His furniture eventually became known as Mission furniture because of its
similarity to furnishings of 18th-century Spanish churches and also because
of Stickley's repeated statement that, "a chair, a bookcase or a bed must
fulfill its mission of usefulness as well as it possible can." Before long,
Mission became a generic term for Arts and Crafts furniture.
Simplified versions of the now-famous Morris chair emerged from the Stickley
factory, as well as countless rockers, tables, hanging shelves, china
cabinets and sideboards. For a short time, Harvey Ellis, architect and
journeyman draftsman, created graceful designs with stylized copper and
pewter inlays to be executed by Stickley's Craftsman Workshops. The inlays
emphasized vertical elements, slenderizing the bulky furniture.
But Stickley declared that the only proper decorations were construction
features, such as exposed mortise and tenon joints, butterflies, keyed
tenons or dovetails. He used only quarter-sawn oak, which exposed the tree's
medullary rays, to build Craftsman furniture. Upon completion, it was not
stained but placed in a sealed room and fumed with ammonia for a rich brown
color.
Harmony of house and furnishings
Design unity was another Arts and Crafts goal advocated in England by
Charles Rennie Mackintosh, and shared by American architects Frank Lloyd
Wright in the Midwest and the Greene brothers in California. They believed
that just as buildings should harmonize with their location and landscaping,
so furnishings should correspond with the total design concept of the
architecture. Wright said, "Every chair must be designed for the building it
will be in."
Hence, Wright and the Prairie School architects designed furnishings --
stained glass, light fixtures and textiles, as well as architecturally
styled furniture -- to coordinate with their houses. Among the notable
Prairie School architects was George Grant Elmslie, a Scotsman whose chairs
are distinguished by geometric cut-outs in the splat.
Wright designed his first furniture when he was in his early 20s. By the
time he was 32, he had reduced furniture to a fundamental geometry of
rectangles and horizontal lines. To Wright, a chair was primarily an
architectural problem. He defined interior space with his tall straight
chairs that act as a screen around tables. Wright's idea that the whole must
be considered as an integral unit led to renewed emphasis on built-in
furniture, not unlike what the Shakers were doing in the 1800s.
In Stickley fashion, Wright designed furniture in simple shapes to allow for
machine production. Machines can render clean-cut, straight-line forms far
better than would be possible by hand, he declared.
Lecturing to the Arts and Crafts Society in Chicago in 1901, Wright said,
"The machine makes it possible -- by its wonderful ability to cut, form,
smooth and repeat -- to work so economically that the poor as well as the
rich can enjoy clear and austere forms in the handling of surface detail
that a Sheraton or a Chippendale could only indicate ... "
Wright added, "The machine has liberated the beauties of nature in wood ...
for, with the exception of the Japanese, wood has been misused and
mishandled everywhere."
Without a doubt, the use of machinery had become a major consideration in
furniture design.
Greene and Greene
In California, the elegant designs of Charles Sumner Greene and his younger
brother, Henry Mather Greene, were influenced by Stickley's The Craftsman
magazine and a growing familiarity with Japanese buildings and furniture.
The Greenes are considered to be the consummate American Arts and Crafts
designers, but they inherited some of their aesthetic ideals from the
Japanese as well: asymmetrical design, respect for the materials and superb
craftsmanship.
As teenagers, the brothers attended Washington University's Manual Training
High School in St. Louis, which required students to study woodworking and
metalwork with an emphasis on understanding the inherent nature of the
material. They learned how to use tools and machinery at the same time they
were studying liberal arts.
In 1888, both entered the School of Architecture at M.I.T. After graduation,
they set up practice in Pasadena, California, and designed their "ultimate
bungalows" between 1907 and 1909. Their most famous project, the David B.
Gamble House in Pasadena, visibly celebrates the ways wood can be joined,
interlocked and sculpted. The furniture in this and their other major homes
(for Robert Blacker, Charles Pratt and William Thorsens) was mostly made of
walnut or teak, inlaid with ebony, fruitwood and semi-precious stones.
The decline of Arts & Crafts
A contribution of the Arts and Crafts period that is not always acknowledged
is its elevation of furniture and the decorative arts to a level more
closely aligned to fine arts. Because of the efforts of people like the
Greenes and Wright, and their ideas of "total design," the fussy Victorian
clutter of the 1890s disappeared. People were awakened to new forms in
furniture.
In time, however, the whims of fashion and too many low-cost versions of
Arts and Crafts-style furniture contributed to its decline. The machine
could be used to make inexpensive and reasonably correct copies, but
manufacturers to whom Arts and Crafts was a fashion, not a philosophy, used
veneers to simulate quarter-sawn oak, added on tenons to look structural,
and replaced hammered copper hardware with cast brass.
Production in the East faded about the time of World War I. American
traditionalists continued to seek antiques or period reproductions, as
Europe moved ahead into modern design. Within the next 15 years, these
European design innovations would become universally recognized:
Restrained, but luxurious Art Deco;
Functional, rational styles of the Bauhaus; and
Revised, more ergonomic Arts and Crafts forms from Scandinavia.
Regardless, much of the early American Arts and Crafts furniture was so well
made that collectors continue to seek it out. During the late 1980s, movie
stars and pizza kings paid unprecedented prices for individual pieces of
Mission and Prairie furniture and the boom in reproductions and adaptations
was on in the American furniture industry.
reference: http://www.iswonline.com/centdesign.html
Roy Dennis
beginnings of a good answer. Do the others really
need any more encouragement to discuss the Arts &
Crafts movement 1900 -1940?
The Frank Lloyd Wright theme could also be
interesting. Furniture and decorative items or
motifs frequently followed the contemporary
architects who were popular and stylish.
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
I like to have a thing suggested rather than told
in full.
When every detail is given, the mind rests
satisfied, and the imagination loses the desire to
use its own wings.
Ronnie McKinley <mcki...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in
message
news:38a3cc5e...@nntp.netcom.net.uk...
Roy Dennis
specific article absolutely on target complete
with a reference. I hope everyone will read it.
There really is learning outside of yabe!
Regards,
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Educated customers are better customers
jc <jayc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ew0p4.258$Hl....@pravda.msen.com...
> This article by Barbara Garet best defines the
mission style that Gustav and
> others are noted noted for.......
See jc's original post for full article
> reference:
http://www.iswonline.com/centdesign.html
Roy Dennis
American arts-and-crafts movements led at the turn
of the century to the establishment of numerous
ateliers and small factories, such as that of
Gustav Stickley (1857-1942). Stickley devised the
MISSION STYLE (q.v.) , ostensibly based on old
Spanish furniture in the California missions. His
furniture, made between 1900 and 1913, was
straight-lined, simple, and utilitarian, carefully
made of oak, with decoration limited to the
handsomely crafted hardware.
American mass manufacturers took up the Mission
style with a will and produced great quantities of
ponderous imitation Stickley. With the exception
of Louis Comfort Tiffany, who designed furniture
primarily for his own use, the U.S. produced no
outstanding Art Nouveau furniture.
Art Deco flourished in America, mostly in
mass-produced furniture of lesser quality. A
notable exception is the work of the studio of
Donald Deskey (1894-1989), which created in 1932
the palatial Art Deco interiors and the furniture
of Radio City Music Hall in New York City.
The American architect Frank Lloyd Wright also
designed furniture, but its idiosyncratic
appearance defies categorisation, since the
furniture design was entirely subordinated to the
design of the building; the same motifs appear in
both. He consistently favoured built-in furniture,
however, because the furniture thus became part of
the architecture.
Funk & Wagnall's Encyclopaedia
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Educated customers are better customers
Roy Dennis <roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in
message
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Gillam Kerley
Roy Dennis wrote:
>
> The American architect Frank Lloyd Wright also
> designed furniture, but its idiosyncratic
> appearance defies categorisation, since the
> furniture design was entirely subordinated to the
> design of the building; the same motifs appear in
> both. He consistently favoured built-in furniture,
> however, because the furniture thus became part of
> the architecture.
Architect? Frank Lloyd Wright?
An architect is someone who designs building with roofs that don't
leak. FLW was an artist who used buildings as a medium, not an
architect.
GK
Esengo
>The American architect Frank Lloyd Wright also
>designed furniture, but its idiosyncratic
>appearance defies categorisation, since the
>furniture design was entirely subordinated to the
>design of the building; the same motifs appear in
>both. He consistently favoured built-in furniture,
>however, because the furniture thus became part of
>the architecture.
I should think that is what makes FLW so notable, that he defies definition.
Not only did his furniture flow into his architecture, but his architecture
flowed into the environment which surrounded it in a way that would be
considered holistic....creating (technically) a feeling of harmony that few
others were ever able to achieve in their designs.
FLW furniture is beautiful (in my opinion) but perhaps difficult to
incorporate into an environment not designed for it....exactly because of that
holistic intention.
See ya,
LF
Jane Thomas
"Roy Dennis" <roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Lovely long,
> specific article absolutely on target complete
> with a reference. I hope everyone will read it.
>
> There really is learning outside of yabe!
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> mission style that Gustav and
> > others are noted noted for.......
>
Do you agree with the opening sentences, Roy?
"American Arts and Crafts furniture was the first to reconcile
handcraftsmanship with machine technology. During this movement,
which flourished during the early 20th century, the design, the
manufacture, and the assembly of a piece of furniture became an
integrated process."
I'm struggling. The combination of handcraftsmanship and machine
technology doesn't seem so novel to me and I would have thought that the
design, manufacture, and assembly of a piece of furniture had been an
"integrated process" in quite a few workshops in the preceeding
centuries.
And what about this:
"Lecturing to the Arts and Crafts Society in Chicago in 1901, Wright
said, "The machine makes it possible -- by its wonderful ability to cut,
form, smooth and repeat -- to work so economically that the poor as well
as the rich can enjoy clear and austere forms in the handling of surface
detail that a Sheraton or a Chippendale could only indicate ... "
Cheers,
Jane
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Roy Dennis
Catholic cathedral - the current one, not the
Lutyens version that only got as far as the
basement.
I have heard architects complain when their
drawings are referred to as "artists'
impressions"/
Interesting thread.
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Educated customers are better customers
Gillam Kerley <gke...@execpc.com> wrote in
message news:38a63134$0$21...@news.execpc.com...
>
>
> Roy Dennis wrote:
> >
>
> > The American architect Frank Lloyd Wright also
> > designed furniture, but its idiosyncratic
> > appearance defies categorisation, since the
> > furniture design was entirely subordinated to
the
> > design of the building; the same motifs appear
in
> > both. He consistently favoured built-in
furniture,
> > however, because the furniture thus became
part of
> > the architecture.
>
Roy Dennis
One school of thought is with the
"artist/craftsman" - someone who both designs and
makes an object, be it furniture, jewellery, or a
hand-thrown pot - as opposed to an artisan who,
however skilled, merely follows the designs of
others.
There is no particular merit in hand-planing a
piece of wood, when a machine will do it quicker,
often better, and certainly more consistently. On
the other hand a craftsman will select his timber
more carefully and work with it, following grain
and texture and perhaps better exploiting its
inherent beauty or characteristics.
The most famous of designers often made little or
none of the items they left for posterity, relying
on the craftsmanship of others to give substance
to their creativity. Sheraton, Hepplewhite and
Chippendale fall into this category as does
Stickley. Phyfe, on the other hand, was a
craftsman who copied and interpreted the designs
of others, an in later years had other artisans
working for him.
In my earlier days I organised major craft shows
and could always tell the work of a true
"artist/craftsman" from that of a merely competent
worker. It is almost an intangible difference and
only by comparison and training the eye and
developing your aesthetic values could you say why
one 10 inch turned bowl was worth X and another
was worth 10X (but could often be bought for 2X
and thus gave the greater value for money).
You pays your money and takes your choice.
Thanks for the thought.
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Roy's philosophy of education:
Teaching is a profession whose business it is
to explain to others
what it personally does not understand.
Jane Thomas <jth...@webtime.com.au> wrote in
message news:886534$kam$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article
<884ru8$4qb$1...@apple.news.easynet.net>,
> "Roy Dennis" <roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk>
wrote:
> > Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Lovely long,
> > specific article absolutely on target complete
> > with a reference. I hope everyone will read
it.
> >
> > There really is learning outside of yabe!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Roy
> >
> > --
> > roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
> > Educated customers are better customers
> >
> > jc <jayc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ew0p4.258$Hl....@pravda.msen.com...
> > > This article by Barbara Garet best defines
the
> > mission style that Gustav and
> > > others are noted noted for.......
> >
> > See jc's original post for full article
> >
> > > reference:
> > http://www.iswonline.com/centdesign.html
>
> Do you agree with the opening sentences, Roy?
>
> "American Arts and Crafts furniture was the
first to reconcile
> handcraftsmanship with machine technology.
During this movement,
> which flourished during the early 20th century,
the design, the
> manufacture, and the assembly of a piece of
furniture became an
> integrated process."
>
> I'm struggling. The combination of
handcraftsmanship and machine
> technology doesn't seem so novel to me and I
would have thought that the
> design, manufacture, and assembly of a piece of
furniture had been an
> "integrated process" in quite a few workshops in
the preceeding
> centuries.
>
> And what about this:
>
> "Lecturing to the Arts and Crafts Society in
Chicago in 1901, Wright
> said, "The machine makes it possible -- by its
wonderful ability to cut,
> form, smooth and repeat -- to work so
economically that the poor as well
> as the rich can enjoy clear and austere forms in
the handling of surface
> detail that a Sheraton or a Chippendale could
only indicate ... "
>
Doris Bialas
One school of thought is with the
"artist/craftsman" - someone who both designs and makes an object, be it
furniture, jewellery, or a hand-thrown pot - as opposed to an artisan
who, however skilled, merely follows the designs of others.
Roy , Is this a trade definition? My dict.
uses craftsman and artisan as the same.
There is no particular merit in hand-planing a piece of wood, when a
machine will do it quicker, often better, and certainly more
consistently. On the other hand a craftsman will select his timber more
carefully and work with it, following grain and texture and perhaps
better exploiting its inherent beauty or characteristics. <big snip>
I think hand-planing, sanding , staining
anything that prepares the object for display gives the maker the "feel"
for
what the wood is saying. Like any other
artist who says "I just let the brush and paints speak for themselves".
IMHO
Doris
Why do we say something is out
of whack? What is a whack?
Maryann
>"artist/craftsman" - someone who both designs and
>makes an object, be it furniture, jewellery, or a
>hand-thrown pot - as opposed to an artisan who,
>however skilled, merely follows the designs of
>others.
This is very interesting to me, personally. I do needlework. It is
really lovely and is much envied and admired by others. However I
keep telling people anyone who can read and count can do this but am
constantly assured that is not true. I have indeed found out that
this is not true! I have no creative ideas of my own and just
loveingly follow the designs of artists. I guess that I am a skilled
craftsman. This is good to know. thanks.
Maryann
Tish
>
>
> I should think that is what makes FLW so notable, that he defies definition.
> Not only did his furniture flow into his architecture, but his architecture
> flowed into the environment which surrounded it in a way that would be
> considered holistic....creating (technically) a feeling of harmony that few
> others were ever able to achieve in their designs.
> FLW furniture is beautiful (in my opinion) but perhaps difficult to
> incorporate into an environment not designed for it....exactly because of that
> holistic intention.
Not to mention blasted uncomfortable!
Richard Ward
the machine did a better job than a man could. It was also cheaper,
but it gave a surface that was closer to what the person with a hand
plane was trying to achieve than hand planing ever could. The slight
irregularities from hand planing were only there because the craftsman
couldn't get rid of them.
I'll be more than willing to admit that most of the time hand work done
by a skilled craftsman gave a more attractive, pleasing result than
something turned out by machine, but in the case of planing on a table
top I just don't see it.
Richard Ward
P.S. Someone already answered your "whack" question. Now you've got to
come up with something new. :>
Ronnie McKinley
Do you agree?
>"American Arts and Crafts furniture was the first to reconcile
>handcraftsmanship with machine technology. During this movement,
>which flourished during the early 20th century, the design, the
>manufacture, and the assembly of a piece of furniture became an
>integrated process."
>
In England, machines served to make talented artisans better. In America,
machines served to make entrepreneurs more productive.
Ronnie
=====
Tish
>
> In rec.antiques, Jane Thomas wrote:
>
> Do you agree?
>
>
> machines served to make entrepreneurs more productive.
>
> Ronnie
Oh, Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie!
Does that sneer ever leave your fine Irish face?
Doris Bialas
I'll be more than willing to admit that most of the time hand work done
by a skilled craftsman gave a more attractive, pleasing result than
something turned out by machine, but in the case of planing on a table
top I just don't see it.
Richard Ward
P.S. Someone already answered your "whack" question. Now you've got to
come up with something new. :>
I know a table top would be difficult to attain the smoothness of a
machine done
top, but I just like to think that those who had no choice did a much
better job with
what they had to work with. IMO it was
not "hurry up and get it done" it was "I
need time to make it perfect" There was a love for what they were doing
and they wanted everything to be their best work.
I know today it's "I want it yesterday".
This should be an easy one .
Doris
Do Roman paramedics refer
to IV's as 4's?
Ronnie McKinley
>Oh, Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie!
>
>Does that sneer ever leave your fine Irish face?
Not a sneer at all Tish, and I must say, I do just a little, resent your
above comment. Now, perhaps you will consider this little article
//////////
The Two Countries That Invented The Industrial Revolution
............. by Curt Anderson
Why do the British and American approaches to machinery differ? A short
history of machine tools explains why. No two countries were more
responsible for the Industrial Revolution than America and England. In
England, during the 18th and 19th centuries there was no shortage of
skilled labor. Rather than replacing English workers, their machines made
work more precise. Meanwhile, in sparsely populated America, the needs of
a new nation required rapid and simple means of production. Machines
augmented the scant work force.
ENGLISH CONTRIBUTIONS
In 1769, Englishman James Watt sparked the Industrial Revolution. His
steam engine's large cylinders posed a vexing problem. They had to be
precise in interior size so that steam could not leak between cylinder
and piston.
Another Englishman, John Wilkinson invented a precision horizontal-boring
machine in 1775. Wilkinson's machine made efficient steam engines
possible. The steam engine cylinder could not be manufactured until
machine tools had been devised that were capable of producing accurate
parts.
A British subject, Henry Maudslay, developed the first engine lathe and
developed an improved micrometer. Other creative Englishmen, invented,
perfected and produced various machines around the turn of the century.
Joseph Whitworth developed in 1830, a measuring instrument accurate to a
millionth of an inch.
AMERICAN CONTRIBUTIONS
Eli Whitney. The term "Yankee ingenuity" could have been coined with
Whitney in mind. Americans solved issues of speed and mass production. In
1798, American Eli Whitney, secured a US government contract (for
$134,000) to produce 10,000 army muskets. Whitney refined and
successfully applied the "Uniformity-System" of production using
inter-changeable parts. However, Whitney met bureaucratic disbelief and
delays in implementing his ideas. He overcame these obstacles by
convincingly demonstrating to President John Adams the workability of the
inter-changeable parts concept. He showed Adams that randomly selected
parts would fit together as a whole working musket. Whitney then
single-handedly designed and built all the machinery to produce the
weapons ... all before a solitary worker entered the factory.
Later, in 1818, Whitney invented the first milling machine.
Also in the same year, Thomas Blanchard of Worcester, Mass. invented a
copying machine for turning the stocks of rifles, using a model to key
the machine.
Americans Elias Howe, Isaac Singer (sewing machines) and Cyrus McCormack
(harvesters) and Henry Ford (automobiles) followed with inventions and
innovations that used Whitney's examples of mass production and
interchangeable parts.
(end)
/////////////
So, I stick firmly to the statement .... " In England, machines served to
make talented artisans better. In America, machines served to make
entrepreneurs more productive."
My case rests. ;>)
Ronnie
=====
Ridiculously Stupid Antiques
======================
Richard Ward
on a table top, the difference isn't just a matter of time, it's the
fact that using a large planing machine to put a flat surface on the top
of a table gives the result that the person using a plane would be
striving for. In most cases, the machines attempt to match the result
of handwork, in the case of planing a table top, the machine finished
top is going to have a superior surface. It's not just a matter of the
machine finished top being faster to produce, it's a case of the machine
finished top being flatter.
Just as an example, talk to a few wordworkers, and see how many people
turing out handmade furniture today use a machine to plane a table top.
I'm not talking about furniture you buy in a store, I'm talking about
people who make furniture because they love to make furniture. A lot of
hand work goes into this type of furniture, but almost all of them will
put the table top in the back of a truck, and haul it to shop that can
run it through a machine.
Richard Ward
Doris Bialas
important things
that was first made in the US. S'mores
I think the Girl Scouts get credit. <g>
Doris Bialas
planer to clean up boards cause I usualy use old
wood. After I put them together to make the top I use a handplane and
lots of sand paper. The sanding goes a lot faster if I did a great job
of connecting them, but I
would never take it to someone to plane the whole top. But ,no one is
beating on my door to finish their table so I can take my time and I
feel really good afterward.
I have such admiration for our ancestors
that did everything from scratch, I guess
I'm living in the wrong time. But your
opinion is welcomed .
Richard Ward
made furniture as a hobby, not as a career, and his woodworker friends.
They'd take all sorts of time on the detail work, but the table tops
went over to Wood World, where they ran the top through a machine to get
the surface flat. My father didn't do this a lot, because he preferred
making small tables that would fit through the thickness planer he had
in the garage. He did sell some of his stuff, but my mothers house is
still full of small tables. Most of what he sold were small boxes and
bowls.
I don't have any problem with your admiration for our ancestors, who did
everything from scratch, I just feel that in some cases they did
everything from scratch because no other way existed. Our ancestors
also heated their houses with wood, used toilets fifty feet from the
house, and pumped their water from a well.
I look upon a tool as a tool, nothing more and nothing less. I look at
a piece of furniture as an expression of the craftsmanship of the maker,
using whatever tools are appropriate. While I have a problem with tools
that merely speed up the process while reducing the quality of the
finished product, I don't have a problem with tools that improved the
finished product, while reducing the physical labor involved.
I tend to prefer older furniture to new because most of the new
furniture uses lots of mechanical processes in the manufacturing process
that reduce the quality of the finished piece as opposed to enhancing
it. I also like the way the wood looks as it ages. The time the
craftsman spent in finishing the top doesn't matter to me, what matters
to me is how good a job he did.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Richard Ward
Esengo
snip:
>I don't have any problem with your admiration for our ancestors, who did
>everything from scratch, I just feel that in some cases they did
>everything from scratch because no other way existed. Our ancestors
>also heated their houses with wood, used toilets fifty feet from the
>house, and pumped their water from a well.
>
I would have to agree with Richard on this one. "Doing everything from
scratch" sounds very romantic until you have to do it. I've lived in a third
world country where I had to do everything from boiling my water, sifting bugs
out of the flour before baking bread, heating water for dishes (usually just
took a cold shower), washing clothing in a wringer washer (this a luxury),
etc. Trust me, at the end of the day there was no time to feel pride in my
work or how I got it done. I was exhausted.
:-D
LF
Smorgass Bored
I would have to agree with Richard on this one. "Doing
everything from scratch" sounds very romantic until you have to do it.
(*<~ Amen ! And,I should know. I once made a lamp out of a bowling
pin.
Doug
~>*)))>< Big fish eat Little fish ><(((*<~
Tina Sutherland
quilted quilt "less" of a quilt? Wouldn't granny have used a machine if
she'd had one? What about contemporary works? Is a piece automatically "not
as good" if the seams are done by machine...if the quilting is done by
machine?
It isn't being answered by quilters, they go round and round. Most shows
now award separate prizes for the different categories of quilting.
Tina - who did one all by hand...just one.
Richard Ward wrote:
> The difference I draw on this particular issue is that with hand planing
> on a table top, the difference isn't just a matter of time, it's the
> fact that using a large planing machine to put a flat surface on the top
> of a table gives the result that the person using a plane would be
> striving for. In most cases, the machines attempt to match the result
> of handwork, in the case of planing a table top, the machine finished
> top is going to have a superior surface. It's not just a matter of the
> machine finished top being faster to produce, it's a case of the machine
> finished top being flatter.
>
> Just as an example, talk to a few wordworkers, and see how many people
> turing out handmade furniture today use a machine to plane a table top.
> I'm not talking about furniture you buy in a store, I'm talking about
> people who make furniture because they love to make furniture. A lot of
> hand work goes into this type of furniture, but almost all of them will
> put the table top in the back of a truck, and haul it to shop that can
> run it through a machine.
>
> Richard Ward
>
> Doris Bialas wrote:
> >
> > Richard wrote:
> > I'll be more than willing to admit that most of the time hand work done
> > by a skilled craftsman gave a more attractive, pleasing result than
> > something turned out by machine, but in the case of planing on a table
> > top I just don't see it.
> > Richard Ward
> > P.S. Someone already answered your "whack" question. Now you've got to
> > come up with something new. :>
> >
> > I know a table top would be difficult to attain the smoothness of a
> > machine done
> > top, but I just like to think that those who had no choice did a much
> > better job with
> > what they had to work with. IMO it was
> > not "hurry up and get it done" it was "I
> > need time to make it perfect" There was a love for what they were doing
> > and they wanted everything to be their best work.
> > I know today it's "I want it yesterday".
> > This should be an easy one .
jc
SNIP :
I would have to agree with Richard on this one. "Doing
everything from scratch" sounds very romantic until you have to do it.
SNIP: (*<~ Amen ! And,I should know. I once made a lamp out of a
bowling
pin.
And I totally agree....I thought I'd learn how to make baskets at one time.
I paid $42.00 for the lessons and bought the many supplies. It was a
nightmare, I was all wet from soaking the reeds, fingers were cut, nerves
were frazzled from turning, weaving and tucking. I couldn't stay contained
within my workspace allowed. The clean up took as much time as the session.
I hated every minute of it. I have complete respect for artisans, no matter
what they do from scratch. A well made antique basket is well worth the
money spent in my mind.
jc
Ronnie McKinley
>And I totally agree....I thought I'd learn how to make baskets at one time.
Yea, me too, me too!! .... I once thought I could become a famous
concert pianist, so I bought a Steinway.
Ronnie
=====
Tone-deaf Antiques
----------------------------
Doris Bialas
here. To start: I have a farm in the winter there is not much for me to
do so I have lots of time. I have found the longer something takes me
the less I'm sitting
<getting larger by the minute> in front of
a screen,eting, drinking and smoking. So
it is a health issue for me. LF: I have been
called by many people a pioneer because of the fact that I try to be
very independent
and do most things myself. Wringer washer ? we used one up until 15 yrs
ago.
No time and exhaustion at the end of the day? Maybe that's the solution
to our crime problem. Mike: My SO just brought me one yesterday how did
you know? He was cleaning up and knew he would never use it. His father
started this farm in 1939
and did almost all of his own building and repairing himself so he had a
vast collection of different tools which my SO
doesn't want to use, but he knows I'll give it a shot. Doug: why would
anyone want a lamp from a bowling pin ?<g>
Tina: I'm not saying that something machine made is inferior I'd rather
do it all myself that's all. jc: I've never tried making baskets so I
can't comment on the time involved, is it lke caning or ash splint? I
have done both of those and compared to the woodworking part of a
chair I find the caning to be relaxing, although the last time I caned I
didn't need glasses so I'll have to see soon about that.
Richard : I guess your right we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks
for all your thoughts.
Mike Wilcox
snipped stuff
jc: I've never tried making baskets so I
> can't comment on the time involved, is it lke caning or ash splint? I
> have done both of those and compared to the woodworking part of a
> chair I find the caning to be relaxing, although the last time I caned I
> didn't need glasses so I'll have to see soon about that.
> Richard : I guess your right we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks
> for all your thoughts.
> Doris
>
>
>
> Do Roman paramedics refer
> to IV's as 4's?
I remember well the first time I did a rush seat, it took me three hours
and took all my attention, by the 8th one I could zip one off in 22
minutes and watch TV at the same time;~)). The cabinet scraper is a bit
of a beast to set up first time, if you need a hand I have a couple of
articles on it I could wire you.
--
Mike Wilcox
Wilcox & Hall Appraisers Online
http://www3.sympatico.ca/appraisers
jc
> Yea, me too, me too!! .... I once thought I could become a famous
> concert pianist, so I bought a Steinway.
*gasp*...talent can not be bought, borrowed, loaned, pilfered, acquired or
absorbed through association other than through generics?
jc
~Back to the 'ole drawing board..... :-Ş
jc
jc
Roy Dennis
journeyperson, machinist, maker, manufacturer,
mechanic, skilled worker, smith, specialist,
technician, wright See also BUSINESSPERSON
1 : WORKINGMAN
2 : ARTISAN
WOODWORKING TOOLS: Artisans down through the
centuries have developed hand tools and power
tools to bring out the special qualities of woods.
They have invented a wide range of fasteners to
hold pieces of wood together, and they have
created waxes, shellacs, and varnishes to enhance
and protect the beauty of wood . Because the
dimensions of wood building materials can change
slightly under the influences of moisture and
heat, the skilled woodworker must be able to
anticipate these variations in order to maximize
the strength and utility of the finished product.
artist [n] person skilled in creative activity
artisan, artiste, authority, composer,
craftsperson, creator, expert, handcrafter,
inventor, painter, virtuoso, whiz
ARTS AND CRAFTS MOVEMENT, art movement of the last
half of the 19th century that strove to revitalize
handicrafts and applied arts during an era of
increasing mass production.
The movement coalesced in 1861, when the English
designer William Morris founded the firm of
Morris, Marshall, & Faulkner. Arguing that the
true basis of art lay in the crafts, Morris and
his followers attacked the sterility and ugliness
of machine-made products; his firm promoted
handmade textiles, books, wallpaper, and
furniture. Around him grew a circle of other
artisans, notably the architects Philip Webb
(1831-1915) and C. F. A. Voysey (known for his
"cottage" style), the cabinetmaker Ernest Gimson
(1864- 1919), the potter William De Morgan
(1839-1917), and the designers Walter Crane and C.
R. Ashbee (1863-1942). The Arts and Crafts
Exhibition Society (founded 1888) and the
magazines The Studio and Hobby Horse provided
forums for the dissemination of the movement's
ideas.
In Scotland, Glasgow became a lively center of the
movement in the 1890s, under the leadership of the
brilliantly innovative architect Charles Rennie
Mackintosh. In Vienna, the movement was the
inspiration for the craft-oriented Wiener
Werkstätte (Vienna Workshop). In the U.S. it led
to the establishment of notable craft workshops
and exhibition societies, while the mission style
in furniture and architecture carried arts and
crafts ideals up to the years of World War I.
The movement was the principal forerunner of the
ART NOUVEAU style, and, in its emphasis on plain
materials and surfaces, it was one of the dominant
sources of 20th-century modernism.
Like I said, you pays your money and takes your
choice.
However, in combination "artist/craftsman" or
"designer/craftsman" means the person who made it
designed it and the person who designed it made
it. Singly the artist designed it but did not make
it and the craftsman made it but did not design
it. Again in isolation an artisan is a (skilled)
workman. Craftsman is a synonym for artisan.
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Educated customers are better customers
Doris Bialas <dora...@webtv.net> wrote in
message
news:16814-38...@storefull-622.iap.bryant.web
tv.net...
> Roy wrote:
> One school of thought is with the
> "artist/craftsman" - someone who both designs
and makes an object, be it
> furniture, jewellery, or a hand-thrown pot - as
opposed to an artisan
> who, however skilled, merely follows the designs
of others.
>
> Roy , Is this a trade definition? My dict.
> uses craftsman and artisan as the same.
>
> There is no particular merit in hand-planing a
piece of wood, when a
> machine will do it quicker, often better, and
certainly more
> consistently. On the other hand a craftsman will
select his timber more
> carefully and work with it, following grain and
texture and perhaps
> better exploiting its inherent beauty or
characteristics. <big snip>
>