PFD, Some incredibly ugly furniture
Richard Ward
incredibly ugly that it damn near makes you dizzy to look at it. What
astonishes me is that this kind of stuff always seems to bring a fairly
good price at auction. I know the UK uses container auctions as a
dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
bit further than most.
The first is a painted pine kitchen cabinet:
http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
I can understand why the UK would like to get rid of pieces like this,
but can anyone explain to me why anyone in the US would want to buy
them?
Richard Ward
Ronnie McKinley
> I know the UK uses container auctions as a
>dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
>bit further than most.
>
This has bugger all to do with the UK, we never painted furniture in
that style, not in a million years ... someone is pulling your chain,
Richard.
Ronnie
=====
DANNY MURPHY
>
> I saw today some furniture at an auction that was not only ugly, but so
> incredibly ugly that it damn near makes you dizzy to look at it. What
> astonishes me is that this kind of stuff always seems to bring a fairly
> dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
> bit further than most.
>
>
> http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
>
> The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
>
> http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
>
> I can understand why the UK would like to get rid of pieces like this,
> but can anyone explain to me why anyone in the US would want to buy
> them?
>
> Richard Ward
in the South of England and I am used to seeing plenty of cheap
furniture of this vintage, it's hard to tell fully from the photos but
it looks pretty modern say 30's ish? In my auction they would probabley
fetch about £40 to £60 each - what was the guide price where you saw
them? I would be interested to know if you can remember. Any more info
on container auctions would also be appreciated as I know a couple of
guys who do this and could give a perspective from the UK.
Danny Murphy.
Richard Ward
English container, and most of the furniture bears that out.
Richard Ward
Ronnie McKinley wrote:
>
> In rec.antiques Richard Ward <rw...@dallas.net> wrote:
>
> > I know the UK uses container auctions as a
> >dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
> >bit further than most.
> >
>
Richard Ward
exactly when these pieces were made, as I didn't examine them
particularly closely, but I'd say 30's through 50's would probably
wouldn't be too far off. The vast majority of the furniture from this
container would fit that time frame.
They don't have a guide price on most of the container auctions around
here, usually only on some of the consignment auctions (which generally
have a higher quality merchandise). The auction is tonight, I can get
the selling price from the auctioneer tomorrow if you're interested.
Richard Ward
DANNY MURPHY wrote:
>
> Richard Ward wrote:
> >
> > I saw today some furniture at an auction that was not only ugly, but so
> > incredibly ugly that it damn near makes you dizzy to look at it. What
> > astonishes me is that this kind of stuff always seems to bring a fairly
> > good price at auction. I know the UK uses container auctions as a
> > dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
> > bit further than most.
> >
DANNY MURPHY
>
> I saw today some furniture at an auction that was not only ugly, but so
> incredibly ugly that it damn near makes you dizzy to look at it. What
> astonishes me is that this kind of stuff always seems to bring a fairly
> good price at auction. I know the UK uses container auctions as a
> dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
> bit further than most.
>
> The first is a painted pine kitchen cabinet:
>
> http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
>
> The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
>
> http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
>
> I can understand why the UK would like to get rid of pieces like this,
> but can anyone explain to me why anyone in the US would want to buy
> them?
>
> Richard Ward
English but the decoration is not, I do agree with Ronnie on that one.
The pediment on the first has surely been added for a larf I think.
Ugly1 may have been a flour sifting unit - a flour sifter would sit in
one of the cupboards and you rolled out on the bottom part.
DANNY MURPHY
>
> This particular container was an unusually tacky lot. I don't know
> exactly when these pieces were made, as I didn't examine them
> particularly closely, but I'd say 30's through 50's would probably
> wouldn't be too far off. The vast majority of the furniture from this
> container would fit that time frame.
>
> They don't have a guide price on most of the container auctions around
> here, usually only on some of the consignment auctions (which generally
> have a higher quality merchandise). The auction is tonight, I can get
> the selling price from the auctioneer tomorrow if you're interested.
>
> Richard Ward
>
> DANNY MURPHY wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I saw today some furniture at an auction that was not only ugly, but so
> > > incredibly ugly that it damn near makes you dizzy to look at it. What
> > > astonishes me is that this kind of stuff always seems to bring a fairly
> > > good price at auction. I know the UK uses container auctions as a
> > > dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
> > > bit further than most.
> > >
> > > The first is a painted pine kitchen cabinet:
> > >
> > > http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
> > >
> > > The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
> > >
> > > http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
> > >
> > > I can understand why the UK would like to get rid of pieces like this,
> > > but can anyone explain to me why anyone in the US would want to buy
> > > them?
> > >
> > > Richard Ward
> > in the South of England and I am used to seeing plenty of cheap
> > furniture of this vintage, it's hard to tell fully from the photos but
> > it looks pretty modern say 30's ish? In my auction they would probabley
> > fetch about £40 to £60 each - what was the guide price where you saw
> > them? I would be interested to know if you can remember. Any more info
> > on container auctions would also be appreciated as I know a couple of
> > guys who do this and could give a perspective from the UK.
> >
> > Danny Murphy.
see who it gets knocked down to... I guess we will have to wait a bit
for live streaming feeds of auctions.
Danny.
Double D Auction
a room around those? The table is not as gaudy as the china
cabinet & if the top was painted in a solid color, would be
more pleasing & restful on the eye.
If these type pieces are bringing good money at auction, it
has to be going to someone who plans to strip & refinish
them.
Debbie
Ronnie McKinley
>I'm gonna sit on the fence on this one! The construction could well be
>English but the decoration is not, I do agree with Ronnie on that one.
>The pediment on the first has surely been added for a larf I think.
>Ugly1 may have been a flour sifting unit - a flour sifter would sit in
>one of the cupboards and you rolled out on the bottom part.
The glazed dresser or kitchen cabinet, call it what you like, looks
Continental to me. I see this style (with the supports holding the
glazed section and sometimes a pull-out slide) coming in from the
former Eastern block countries, Romania, North-eastern Germany, the
Russian republics and generally in and around the Balkan regions. It's
old ok, date range usually varying in and around the late 19th century
through into the 1930s. ..... the style could linger on, post the
1930s, think fashion was fairly static so who knows.
Anyways, it all comes in still "in-the-paint" but the paint condition
is so bad that most pieces need TANKING!! .... the original painting
style is heavy and fussy, dark colours, much like, how one would
imagine a painted Romany Gypsy caravan (or is that trailer) but the
paint, style and finish still looks NOTHING like the paint job on
these pieces. I reckon, it's old pine ok, but newly painted, or
painted over or whatever.
The kitchen table could well be English, or Irish. The vast majority
of Irish pine and country tables had square legs, a major and
characteristic feature in Irish country furniture in generally. But
that paint job!!!!!!!!! ...... my god it is the absolute pits.
Ronnie
=====
When in doubt, TANK the bugger
=========================
Richard Ward
they weren't worth my time stripping. They were fairly crudely done,
the drawers didn't open properly, etc...
I think around here sometimes if you can call something a primitive,
it'll sell, no matter how ugly. A few months ago they had an auction
composed of 1930s and later English furniture that someone had painted
these godawful landscape scenes all over, and the wardrobes were going
for $200 to $300 each. This was on wardrobes that would have brought
under $100 each unpainted. That lot wasn't a container, it was a
consignment from a local woman who bought the wardrobes and painted them
herself. All things considered however, as bad as they were, this new
group is worse.
Richard Ward
Roy Dennis
English either.
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Educated customers are better customers
Ronnie McKinley <rmck...@glenbourne.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote in message
news:38beccef...@news.freeserve.net...
> In rec.antiques Richard Ward <rw...@dallas.net>
wrote:
>
> > I know the UK uses container auctions as a
> >dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but
these pieces really do go a
> >bit further than most.
> >
>
>
Esengo
>>
>> http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
>>
>> The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
>http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
>>
Sort of Mary Englebreit if you ask me. I vote newish paint....someone
excercising their creative side (and now moved on to other things).
Are we saying that *no one* in the UK has such bad taste? HA! And
frankly, Richard, I think you should find another auction house. We all know
the good stuff comes from American Estates. :-D
See ya,
LF
David H. Dean
My guess is that the furniture is not very old at all, picked-up at
boot sales & skips, recently painted, & sold at a healthy profit. I
don't like it, so I've never bothered to see what the asking prices
are. The 2 that you showed were definately more decorated that what
I've seen at the craft shows, but very similar nonetheless. I do
recall seeing at a bric-n-brac shop, a load of cheap boxes & chests
done with the vigor of over-decoration that your examples display.
-dave
On Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:07:24 -0600, Richard Ward <rw...@dallas.net>
wrote:
>I saw today some furniture at an auction that was not only ugly, but so
>incredibly ugly that it damn near makes you dizzy to look at it. What
>astonishes me is that this kind of stuff always seems to bring a fairly
>good price at auction. I know the UK uses container auctions as a
>dumpster for their unwanted furniture, but these pieces really do go a
>bit further than most.
>
>The first is a painted pine kitchen cabinet:
>
>http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
>
>The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
>
>http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
>
>I can understand why the UK would like to get rid of pieces like this,
>but can anyone explain to me why anyone in the US would want to buy
>them?
>
>Richard Ward
Tsu Dho Nimh
>The first is a painted pine kitchen cabinet:
>
>http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly1.jpg
Not much detail showing, but in the right location, it might
actually look decent. Or someone like the profile and planned to
repaint. Does it have flowers or dots?
>The second is a painted pine kitchen table:
>
>http://www.dallas.net/~rward/ugly2.jpg
>
>I can understand why the UK would like to get rid of pieces like this,
>but can anyone explain to me why anyone in the US would want to buy
>them?
To put in their double-wide?
Tsu Dho Nimh
When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
your kid and run for your life.
jon...@ukonline.co.uk
Ronnie, I TOLD you that we'd never get away with that last load...!!
Jon
> Ronnie
> =====
> When in doubt, TANK the bugger
> =========================
...and tank you too, sor...top of the mornin' to ya...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard Ward
Ronnie McKinley
>SNIP of ugly stuff discussion
>
>
>Ronnie, I TOLD you that we'd never get away with that last load...!!
>
LOL
Hey, wait until they receive the overshot glass we sent.
Ronnie
=====
Mike Wilcox
$ 600.00 for that lot of rubbish? I'm off the the hardware store for
some paint and I'II pick up some inventory at dump on the way home ;~)))
Man, you have to love this business!
--
Mike Wilcox
Wilcox & Hall Appraisers Online
http://www3.sympatico.ca/appraisers
Roy Dennis
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
One Born Every Minute Antiques
<jon...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:89ofu4$e7n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> SNIP of ugly stuff discussion
>
>
> Ronnie, I TOLD you that we'd never get away with
that last load...!!
>
Ronnie McKinley
>At 650 bucks you DID get away with it!
The table stripped and waxed ... 100-150UKP (160-240US)
The kitchen cabinet stripped and waxed .. 325-375UKP (510-600US)
That's to Dick and Dora Public via an "antique" pine shop.
Cheap considering the price of pot cupboards these day. ;>)
Ronnie
=====
Always a profit left in it
===================
Mike Wilcox
Hi Ronnie ,What would the finishing costs be on that lot be over there?
Here you couldn't make a decent margin on it if you had to strip and
finish it, my stripping costs would be $ 80.00 for the table and $
125-160.00 for the cabinet. When you add on the probable repair costs,
for me it would be a bad deal, in the rough that stuff here would be
lucky to bring $ 400.00 CDN ;~))
Ronnie McKinley
>Here you couldn't make a decent margin on it if you had to strip and
>finish it,
That would depend on your buying in price Mike. I don't want to
mention that in the ng, if you're interested email me and I let you
know what we would buy such things for. Here (and I mean Ireland) the
pieces would be caustic tanked, no question of that **TANKED**
Cost to tank the table (by a pine stripper to the trade) about ten
pound, the kitchen cabinet about 40 pound, most dealers would then
finish themselves using briwax, no grain filling no messing about,
just WAX it, a couple of hours work at most. It's shite Mike but it
still sells.
Looking at the pics again ... the kitchen cabinet does indeed look
like the Eastern European stuff, stripped, waxed and retailed, easily
£350, maybe more depends on the retail outlet. The only dodgy bit
about it would be the top surface of the base section, that could be a
sticky down Formica. ...... The table, a bit on the small size and
looks like it lacks a cutlery drawer (that's a big disadvantage) it
could pass as Irish, and as such would retail here for £150.
Ronnie
=====
Esengo
>>Here you couldn't make a decent margin on it if you had to strip and
>>finish it,
Ronnie replied:>That would depend on your buying in price Mike. I don't want to
>mention that in the ng, if you're interested email me and I let you
>know what we would buy such things for. Here (and I mean Ireland) the
>pieces would be caustic tanked, no question of that **TANKED**
>Cost to tank the table (by a pine stripper to the trade) about ten
>pound, the kitchen cabinet about 40 pound, most dealers would then
>finish themselves using briwax, no grain filling no messing about,
>just WAX it, a couple of hours work at most. It's shite Mike but
>it
>still sells.
>
>Looking at the pics again ... the kitchen cabinet does indeed look
>like the Eastern European stuff,
>stripped, waxed and retailed, easily
>£350, maybe more depends on the retail outlet. The only dodgy bit
>about it would be the top surface of the base section, that could be a
>sticky down Formica. ...... The table, a bit on the small size and
>looks like it lacks a cutlery drawer (that's a big disadvantage) it
>could pass as Irish, and as such would retail here for £150.
>
I agree with Mike. These items went for $250 (table) and $400 (hutch) just
as they were at auction. Maybe even a 10% premium added on. If you ask me,
tanked pine looks like tanked pine. It all starts to look alike. Besides,
we all dont have a "tank" in our backyard. If I did anything to those
pieces I would paint them apple green or robins egg blue or red. Sell them to
a decorator for twice the amount they sold for at auction. ;-)
See ya,
LF
Mike Wilcox
>
> In rec.antiques Mike Wilcox wrote:
>
> >Here you couldn't make a decent margin on it if you had to strip and
> >finish it,
>
> mention that in the ng, if you're interested email me and I let you
> know what we would buy such things for. Here (and I mean Ireland) the
> pieces would be caustic tanked, no question of that **TANKED**
>
> Cost to tank the table (by a pine stripper to the trade) about ten
> pound, the kitchen cabinet about 40 pound, most dealers would then
> finish themselves using briwax, no grain filling no messing about,
> just WAX it, a couple of hours work at most. It's shite Mike but it
> still sells.
>
> Looking at the pics again ... the kitchen cabinet does indeed look
> like the Eastern European stuff, stripped, waxed and retailed, easily
> £350, maybe more depends on the retail outlet. The only dodgy bit
> about it would be the top surface of the base section, that could be a
> sticky down Formica. ...... The table, a bit on the small size and
> looks like it lacks a cutlery drawer (that's a big disadvantage) it
> could pass as Irish, and as such would retail here for £150.
>
> =====
Hi Ronnie, the bottom fell out of market for stripped pine here back in
the mid 1990's and never really came back. No one I know here just waxes
their pieces, our climate changes from season to season and the pieces
requires at least a good sealer under the wax or the stuff would split
and warp all to hell within a year. I'd have much better luck putting
it's "original coat of paint" (Primer red, bottle green...) back on it
and moving it that way ;~)))
Ronnie McKinley
>I agree with Mike.
What do YOU agree with?
> These items went for $250 (table) and $400 (hutch) just
>as they were at auction. Maybe even a 10% premium added on.
We already know that ... 650 ... so what's your point?
> If you ask me,
>tanked pine looks like tanked pine. It all starts to look alike.
I have no idea what this means.
> Besides,
>we all dont have a "tank" in our backyard.
Neither do I.
> If I did anything to those
>pieces I would paint them apple green or robins egg blue or red. Sell them to
>a decorator for twice the amount they sold for at auction. ;-)
So, you don't really agree with Mike after all. You would double your
money then??
Ronnie
=====
Ronnie McKinley
Whatever Mike, you asked me about the finishing costs over here.
Stripped pine STILL sells (Ireland) over here. Painted pine sells
BETTER, although it would be a different clientele, but it must be the
original paint finish, that is rare, and as such, will command SERIOUS
price. Dick and Dora don't really come into this end of the market.
Ireland of course at one time was up to its arm pits in original
painted pine, back in the 60s and 70s, but no one here then wanted the
stuff, the Yanks wanted it, so most of the good Irish pine has already
been shipped years ago. Back then, the Yanks wanted it stripped, so
wonderful pieces of good and original pine were bastardized to meet
those needs. Sad but true. Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s the
shipping continued, both stripped and "in the paint" ... today there
is really very little left. I know no Northern (Irish) dealers that
ships pine to the States these days, putting a container of original
Northern Irish pine together would be almost impossible. The ROI still
continue to ship, but most of it's total shite. made-up and reclaimed.
A good original painted pine Galway dresser these days would find a
home here in Ireland without the need of going into the back of a 40
footer.
Anyway, here's a few (American) sites I found ...
Looking at this one, I wonder what the hell Richard (Ward) is beefing
about, the quoted prices are ridiculous, I guess the owner must wear a
mask and carry a swag-bag over hi shoulder .... there's nothing shown
here that would cost me more than 200 sterling to buy in this side and
I would be buying it already stripped (but not waxed) .. this is all
typical of the Eastern/Central European pine now in wide circulation
over here and in England.
http://www.homecollection-rockyh.com/furniture/armoire.html
This one is the PITS ...
http://www.pine-emporium.com/products.html#antique
This one, is original painted Eastern Euro stuff, probably sourced
direct from Holland. The Dutch are the main source for Western Europe,
with several large warehouses for en bulk shipping purposes. I would
add, the better painted Euro stuff is currently always held back for
the Americans. The Dutch warehouses will give preference to the US
market over the British market when selling the good painted stuff.
The reason for that is simple .. MONEY .. the US importers/shippers
will pay more for the stuff than the Brits.
I know several dealers from my area that go to Holland but they are
generally never shown or offered the better painted stuff unless they
are prepared to offer the Yankee asking prices. All the Eastern Euro
stuff is "in the paint" but as I've already said most of it requires
stripping.
http://www.watchhillantiques.com/painted.htm
This one looks like a general importer/shipper of 40 footer, all
typical of stuff that is shipped. The hardwood (brown furniture)
section is the ilk of stuff has been shipped to the US for years. The
site appears to be selling a full range of Irish, British and Euro
stuff, in pine and hardwood, plus Euro smalls
http://www.bbpineantiques.com/gallery.html
Ronnie
=====
Mike Wilcox
Snippage
>
> Ronnie
> =====
Looking at all that pine takes me back a few years Ronnie, I spent most
of the 1960's, 70's and early 80's removing paint from the old pine and
the late 1980's till today putting it back on! In North America a good
piece with original painted decoration intact ,dating from the very
early 1800's, is worth 10 times what a stripped piece is from the same
period. Not many of these original painted pieces remain here in Canada,
like the Irish pine, nearly all of our good stuff went to the States as
well. It's now being sold as " Early American" ;~)))
Roy Dennis
I'd agree with Ronnie's suggested retail prices.
My trade stripper (caustic tank for pine) would
charge me 10 UKP for the table and 25 UKP for the
dresser.
About an hour with an orbital sander on the two
pieces and about the same with the Briwax and if
you do it all yourself there is a profit left
after costing your own time at (? per hour).
We've got a lot of Americans on the bases in East
Anglia and they sometimes distort market prices
for certain types of goods, especially (shudder)
stripped and waxed 1930s - 1950s repro oak,
including plywood.
OTOH I did recently buy a pleasant late-Victorian
painted pine (gungy brown to simulate mahogany)
turned leg Pembroke table at a local auction for
35 UKP, treated as above and sold it for 170 UKP
to an American dealer who shipped it to Georgia. I
wonder how much he would have to retail it for
after shipping costs, (import duty?), profits and
sales taxes?
Roy
--
roy.d...@ukonline.co.uk
Tank 'em and Bash 'em Antiques
Mike Wilcox <appra...@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message news:38C1073E...@sympatico.ca...
> Ronnie McKinley wrote:
> >
> > In rec.antiques, Roy Dennis wrote:
> >
> > >At 650 bucks you DID get away with it!
> >
> > The table stripped and waxed ... 100-150UKP
(160-240US)
> >
> > The kitchen cabinet stripped and waxed ..
325-375UKP (510-600US)
> >
> > That's to Dick and Dora Public via an
"antique" pine shop.
> >
> > Cheap considering the price of pot cupboards
these day. ;>)
> >
> > Ronnie
> > =====
> > Always a profit left in it
> > ===================
>
> Hi Ronnie ,What would the finishing costs be on
that lot be over there?
> Here you couldn't make a decent margin on it if
you had to strip and
> finish it, my stripping costs would be $ 80.00
for the table and $
> 125-160.00 for the cabinet. When you add on the
probable repair costs,
> for me it would be a bad deal, in the rough that
stuff here would be
> lucky to bring $ 400.00 CDN ;~))
Ronnie McKinley
>We've got a lot of Americans on the bases in East
>Anglia and they sometimes distort market prices
>for certain types of goods, especially (shudder)
>stripped and waxed 1930s - 1950s repro oak,
>including plywood.
I think it's this natural desire that some Americans appear to have
for blond or bleached coloured woods. Excepting all the English and
Euro stuff to be sun bleached, and are taken aback when presented with
furniture of deep colour, sometimes assuming the stuff has been
refinished. Certainly in the case of mahogany and other hardwoods.
>OTOH I did recently buy a pleasant late-Victorian
>painted pine (gungy brown to simulate mahogany)
Well that's another point, We tend to think of pine furniture all
being originally painted or stencilled, which was not always the case.
Many times, the pine (British and Irish) was oil scumbled to simulate
hardwoods. Yea, and we stripped that as well, which it also a pity.
Ronnie
=====
Doris Bialas
usable. Why? Why did the bear go over the mountain?
To see what he could see!!!!
Doris
If you drink, don't park
accidents cause people.