Need help finding wire

[Brenda Dyer]

Anyone know what the wire is called that's used on the Radiola 25 loop
antenna? I need to find some, but not sure exactly what to call it. The loop
is broken in several places where the wire makes a right angle turn, and
soldering it back together does not appear to be doable.

TIA

[Roger]

Hi Brenda...

Is it many strands of fine wire woven together? If so
it's called Litz wire (Litzendraht). I've seen it on
eBay.

73, Roger

--
Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
http://www.gtr5.com/

[William Sommerwerck]

> Is it many strands of fine wire woven together?

> If so, it's called Litz wire (Litzendraht).

It's called litz wire, not Litz wire. It is not named after a person.
Litzendraht means "stranded". It is not a German noun, and is not capitalized.

I don't apologize for being picky.

[Roger]

Litzendraht IS a German noun!

[Brenda Dyer]

"Roger" wrote in message
news:5120ceab$0$11759$c3e8da3$6901...@news.astraweb.com...

Hi Brenda...

Is it many strands of fine wire woven together? If so
it's called Litz wire (Litzendraht). I've seen it on
eBay.

73, Roger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking it might be litz wire, but it's not quite that..

This is many fine wires, but they are not woven together, just twisted like
standard stranded wire. Each wire is very fine, the totality of the wires
appears to be ~ AWG 16 or 18.

[Roger]

If the strands are not insulated from each other, then almost
any hookup wire of the appropriate diameter will work.

73, Roger




Brenda Dyer wrote:
>
>

[William Sommerwerck]

> I was thinking it might be litz wire, but it's not quite that..
> This is many fine wires, but they are not woven together, just
> twisted like standard stranded wire. Each wire is very fine, the
> totality of the wires appears to be ~ AWG 16 or 18.

Are the individual strands insulated? If so, it's litz wire.

[nesesu]

On Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:11:56 PM UTC-8, Brenda Dyer wrote:
> Anyone know what the wire is called that's used on the Radiola 25 loop antenna? I need to find some, but not sure exactly what to call it. The loop is broken in several places where the wire makes a right angle turn, and soldering it back together does not appear to be doable. TIA

Brenda Ann, roughly how long a piece is needed for your loop? Also what is the exact diameter of the outside of original wire measured with a vernier caliper or micrometer?
The wire is probably Litz if you are having problems soldering it, but I have a large stock of Litz wire up to fairly large sizes [220/44] and may be able to send you a piece to rewind the whole loop coil. The only down side is that the fabric insulation is a pink, so you would have to precolour it with a Sharpy into green or black ot whatever. Contact me 'off line' with the length and diameter and I'll let you know what I have that might do.

Neil S.

[Hank]

In article <kfqjgs$kan$1...@dont-email.me>,

In German, nouns are capitalized. Whether to capitalize "Litzendraht"
in an English sentence is a matter of choice. Worth noting that 250
years ago, English language nouns were commonly capitalized as well.

Hank

[oldco...@gmail.com]

Brenda,
Check out post# 26 for stripping fine gauge wire. It will probably work great on Litz wire too

http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=257295&page=2

[Brenda Dyer]

wrote in message
news:5bbc62f2-517d-40a2...@googlegroups.com...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for this great tip, I'll file that for future use. :)

The issue here is not that I can't solder TO the wire, though, it's that the
wire is too short to reconnect the broken ends, and I don't want to do
something tacky like adding a length of wire to reconnect those ends.
Besides, the original wire is badly frayed and in need of replacement.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Hank" wrote in message news:kfrh96$p15$1...@dont-email.me...

In article <kfqjgs$kan$1...@dont-email.me>,
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> It's called litz wire, not Litz wire. It's not named after a person.

>> Litzendraht means "stranded". It is not a German noun, and is
>> not capitalized.

> In German, nouns are capitalized. Whether to capitalize
> "Litzendraht" in an English sentence is a matter of choice.

No, it's not. It's not a noun or proper noun in German -- it's an adjective.

> Worth noting that 250 years ago, English language nouns were
> commonly capitalized as well.

Not commonly, but sometimes. You still see it today. People randomly
capitalize common nouns for no obvious reason.

[Joe Bento]

On 2/17/2013 5:15 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>
> No, it's not. It's not a noun or proper noun in German -- it's an
> adjective.
>

Not according to my German dictionary. It shows it as a noun.
Litzendraht is a compound noun - litzen + draht. Literal definition is
stranded wire.

Joe

[us...@domain.invalid]

But in English we don't say "litz", we say "litz wire". Thus "litz"
refers to "litzen", an adjective meaning stranded.

If English "litz" referred to "Litzendraht", then "litz wire" would mean
"stranded wire wire" which makes no sense.

[Paul P]

"Brenda Dyer" <newsg...@jadephoenix.org> wrote in message
news:gNudncgMbvbu7LzM...@giganews.com...

Wow,

I like that. One aspirin kills two headake at once :~)

Paul P.

[Roger]

As is usual in English, we shorten everything. We say laptop
rather than laptop computer thereby turning an adjective into
a noun.

We say litz wire because we mean a particular type of stranded
wire.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire

73, Roger

>
> But in English we don't say "litz", we say "litz wire". Thus "litz"
> refers to "litzen", an adjective meaning stranded.
>
> If English "litz" referred to "Litzendraht", then "litz wire" would mean
> "stranded wire wire" which makes no sense.
>

[William Sommerwerck]

I need to apologize for my error.

I checked my German dictionary, and "Litzendraht" does, indeed, mean "stranded
wire". It is a noun, and therefore should be capitalized.

Litz does not appear to be a German word. However, Litze means strand or
braid. So I guess we might as well capitalize Litz.

Sorry about that.

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 2/18/2013 11:31 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> I need to apologize for my error.

Mein Gott im Himmel!

Be still my beating heart, he admitted he was wrong.

Pant pant, gasp wheeze.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

[William Sommerwerck]

"Foxs Mercantile" wrote in message news:kfu0sr$fe1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

The problem is yours. I am /almost/ never wrong. Almost. But you don't
understand that, so an admission of error on my part takes on near-cosmic
significance.

[Hank]

In article <kfu1rc$afo$1...@dont-email.me>,

I don't think the problem is ours, and since your response was to my
post calling Litzendraht a noun, I'll just laugh at "almost/never
wrong."

Hank

[William Sommerwerck]

"Hank" wrote in message news:kfun3r$pki$1...@dont-email.me...

You, Hank, are an illiterate idiot. I take back having apologized. You're too
stupid to deserve courteous treatment.

I said /almost/ never wrong. Which is true. I rarely make mistakes. I did not
say almost/never wrong (which is meaningless, because it's ambiguous).

Learn how to read, moron.

[William Sommerwerck]

Let me add another necessary insult.

Do you know what "functionally illiterate" means? It refers to people who can
read words, but have no understanding what a sentence means.

You are functionally illiterate. Or a jerk who takes perverse pleasure in
misreading what someone wrote.

Does it bother you that I'm usually right? Or is that such an offense to your
imagined intelligence (or masculinity, or whatever) that you (apparently)
deliberately misread what I write, so you'll have an excuse for attacking me?
Grow up.

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 2/18/2013 10:03 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> Let me add another necessary insult.

And this is why people think you're an arrogant prick William.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

[meanmrmustard]

Does your zhit almost never stink?

[William Sommerwerck]

"Foxs Mercantile" wrote in message news:kfuvg0$qeo$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

On 2/18/2013 10:03 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> Let me add another necessary insult.

> And this is why people think you're an arrogant prick William.

And what does that make someone who attacks a person who apologizes for a
mistake?

[Foxs Mercantile]

Let's see, first off you started it by going completely off topic
about the capitalization of Litz wire. Then you HAD to insist you
were right until you begrudgingly admitted you were wrong.

You did it to yourself William, then you proved once again you have
no sense of humor. Hank just commented on the irony of your almost
never wrong comment and as usual, you took it as a personal attack.

It really doesn't matter how right you are, your ability to "Play
well with others" is seriously lacking.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

[William Sommerwerck]

"Foxs Mercantile" wrote in message news:kg06de$40c$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

On 2/19/2013 7:33 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "Foxs Mercantile" wrote in message news:kfuvg0$qeo$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On 2/18/2013 10:03 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>>> Let me add another necessary insult.

>> And this is why people think you're an arrogant prick William.

> And what does that make someone who attacks a person who
> apologizes for a mistake?

You didn't answer my question.

>> Let's see, first off you started it by going completely off topic
>> about the capitalization of Litz wire. Then you HAD to insist you
>> were right until you begrudgingly admitted you were wrong.

And there's something wrong with admitting that, that justifies attacking
someone?

>> You did it to yourself William, then you proved once again you have
>> no sense of humor.

There are many things I lack, but a sense of humor -- and self-deprecation --
aren't among them. I'm not so stupid to think that your and Hank's remarks
were meant humorously.

>> Hank just commented on the irony of your almost
>> never wrong comment and as usual, you took it as a personal attack.

No, he didn't. He deliberately misinterpreted what I wrote, and attacked. I
have no objection to personal attacks -- if they're justified. But if I
apologize, and then am kicked in the teeth for it... How do you expect me to
respond?

> It really doesn't matter how right you are, your ability to "Play
> well with others" is seriously lacking.

And you and Hank set such fine examples.

[Hank]

In article <kfutg7$jsb$1...@dont-email.me>,

****YAWN***

[Hank]

In article <kg0bi2$fio$1...@dont-email.me>,

Attack you? Why would I bother to do such a thing?

You got caught out being wrong, and posted that you had, which is
fine.

But then claiming that all of this was "our" problem doesn't fly very
high much of anywhere I can think of. And then to go on with
ridiculous statements about almost never being wrong? What can I say.
"Consider the Source."

I think it may be time for you to quit banging your tin cup on your
high chair, particularly now that you've wet your pants to boot.

Hank

[Hank]

And I think that at this point we can get back to helping Brenda Ann
get that old Radiola playing again.

I can't help with a UX120 or 20 tube, as I don't have anything that
old lying around here.

On the loop antenna, I don't think the wire used to wind the loop is
critical. As I recall, those loops were wound on an open frame with
spacing between the wires. So long as you have the correct number of
turns and the original spacing, you should have the proper inductance
for tuning with the RF tuning condenser. If you've got a grid dip
that will go that low (the standard Millen dips and Megacycle Meters
didn't, though there were MF coils for the Millen and a head for the
Megacycle Meter for MF as options). My recollection was that the
portable model 26 I got working in the early 1950's had a weak point
in the flex leads to the loop---those would break.

Hank

[William Sommerwerck]

> Attack you? Why would I bother to do such a thing?

Because you're a jerk who enjoys putting down people.

> You got caught out being wrong, and posted that you had,
> which is fine.

But you couldn't leave it there. Instead of saying "thanks for admitting your
mistake", or remaining silent, you had to make snide remarks. Ask yourself
why.

I often make self-deprecating remarks. When I sat on the board of a social
club, the president would take advantage of them to belittle me. About the
third time, the rest of the members told him to cut it out.

I know what sort of a person you are.

> But then claiming that all of this was "our" problem doesn't fly
> very high much of anywhere I can think of. And then to go on with
> ridiculous statements about almost never being wrong? What
> can I say. "Consider the Source."

But I /am/ rarely wrong. (I'm not talking about problem diagnosis, but factual
stuff.) Why does that bother you so much? I'm in other groups with people who
are hardly ever wrong about anything. And it doesn't bother me one bit.

[Michael Black]

That sounds like it should be fine. If nothing else, she can do it with
regular wire now, and get things operating, then deal with making it like
the original later.

There is a legit reason for litz wire, but at the same time, I dont' see
Litz being used in current AM broadcast loops, and I've plenty of external
tuned loops that don't bother. So there's likely some drop in
performance, but not necessarily a lot.

Michael

[Jim Mueller]

Using current AM radios as a comparison probably isn't valid. All the
ones I've seen have poor performance compared to early '60s pocket
portables and AA5s.

--
Jim Mueller wron...@nospam.com

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.

[Michael Black]

But as an interum measure, the idea is sound.

But at what point did AM loopsticks stop using litz wire? I can't
remember, but I think the decline is independent. After all, at a certain
point AM became less important, the money spent on FM, which then caused
AM to decline even further. This goes back decades.

I thought the point of Litz wire was to increase Q, or at lesat not
decrease Q from the wire, and that's more an issue of front end
selectivity than sensitivity. A bigger loop, like in the old radios is
going to work better than a small loopstick in some of the more recent
radios.

If I was stuck, I'd look around. I don't suppose an old RF choke has
enough Litz wire for the loopstick in the radio. I might start looking at
junk IF transformers of loopsticks I'd taken out of something to see if
they had Litz wire, and then wonder if they offered up enough length.

Michael

[dave]

On 02/21/2013 01:24 PM, Jim Mueller wrote:
>
>> Michael
>
> Using current AM radios as a comparison probably isn't valid. All the
> ones I've seen have poor performance compared to early '60s pocket
> portables and AA5s.
>

I have one of these and it performs as well as any consumer grade AM
radio I've had.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-Digital-AM-FM-Walkman-Radio-with-Weather-Band-Tuning/14912313

There are also several Kaito radios which are quite nice as well.

[oldco...@gmail.com]

On 02/21/2013 01:24 PM, Jim Mueller wrote:

> I have one of these and it performs as well as any consumer grade AM
> radio I've had.
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-Digital-AM-FM-Walkman-Radio-with-Weather-Band-Tuning/14912313

I'm on my second one of those. Granted it performs well, great AVC action and all. Single AAA battery is a boon.
But the one gripe is the on/off pushbutton becomes harder and harder to operate, requiring harder and harder pressure until the radio becomes unservicable. The second one is nearing the end of its service life, requiring a ton of pressure to turn it on and off.

Bill(oc)

[John Robertson]

Why not re-carbon the rubber pad surface? I've heard some people have
had great success doing this on obsolete remote controls, and expect it
would work on the Walkman - assuming it comes apart easily enough.

Here's a guy who wrote a page on the subject:

http://www.sandman.com/button.html

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Michael A. Terrell]

Michael Black wrote:
>
> I thought the point of Litz wire was to increase Q, or at lesat not
> decrease Q from the wire, and that's more an issue of front end
> selectivity than sensitivity. A bigger loop, like in the old radios is
> going to work better than a small loopstick in some of the more recent
> radios.

A higher 'Q' not only improves selectivity, but sensitivity as well.
The higher the 'Q", the higher the voltage in the parallel tuned
circuit. Think about IF transformers, and the change in gain as they
are aligned. You can tune for maximum gain, or slightly stagger tune
for better audio in exchange for a few dB gain at each stage. Do you
think early radio companies would have bothered with Litz if they could
have used cheaper wire?

[John Robertson]

John Robertson wrote:
> oldco...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 02/21/2013 01:24 PM, Jim Mueller wrote:
>>> I have one of these and it performs as well as any consumer grade AM
>>> radio I've had.
>>> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-Digital-AM-FM-Walkman-Radio-with-Weather-Band-Tuning/14912313
>>
>>
>> I'm on my second one of those. Granted it performs well, great AVC
>> action and all. Single AAA battery is a boon. But the one gripe is the
>> on/off pushbutton becomes harder and harder to operate, requiring
>> harder and harder pressure until the radio becomes unservicable. The
>> second one is nearing the end of its service life, requiring a ton of
>> pressure to turn it on and off.
>> Bill(oc)
>
> Why not re-carbon the rubber pad surface? I've heard some people have
> had great success doing this on obsolete remote controls, and expect it
> would work on the Walkman - assuming it comes apart easily enough.
>
> Here's a guy who wrote a page on the subject:
>
> http://www.sandman.com/button.html
>
> John :-#)#
>

Opps, well he is actually SELLING a kit to repair these dead carbon
pads. I guess that is useful too...

[oldco...@gmail.com]

> Why not re-carbon the rubber pad surface? I've heard some people have
> had great success doing this on obsolete remote controls, and expect it
> would work on the Walkman - assuming it comes apart easily enough.

I tried rejuving the pad but it didn't take. Had to cut away part of the case around the button to get to it. Thought about mounting a mini slide switch outboard, but after interminable futzing trying to determine where to connect it, gave up and got another radio (which has developed the same problem). Just hafta consider these as disposable after 3 - 4 years. For the price that's OK i guess, since there doesn't appear to be any comparable radio on the market.
Bill(oc)