Art deco (IMHO) radio web page
Robert Casey
web page of the radios I have that I think would qualify as
art deco style.
See: http://www.geocities.com/wa2ise/radios/deco.html
Most are bakelite. One is a transistor with art deco-ish
styling, obviously made after the art deco era was done.
Bill-
Nope, I disagree. Those are all nice representative radios of the era
but don't conform to the defined lines of deco. That Emerson 713 stands
a good chance..even the Philco 38-12. However, you stand a good chance
at MAKING them deco just by insisting so at the point of sale. :-0 That
Admiral with push buttons may qualify for the ugliest surviving
radio...a merit that may be worth a few bux amongst the campers.
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net
Eddie Brimer
deco is in the eye of the beholder.
Eddie Brimer
2480 S. Beersheba Rd.
Sharon SC, 29742
visit my web page "THIS OLD RADIO"
http://members.aol.com/EB062559/THISOLDRADIOINDEX.html
Sylvain
I'm sorry, but I too disagree. Here are somewhat closer (if I can say that) examples of
-deco- styling.
http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_1.jpg
http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_2.jpg
http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_3.jpg
If you want to see real Art-Deco, I can take pictures of lamps I have dating from 1920...
The Chrysler building is a good Deco example also.
Here are good sites explaining what Art-Deco really is:
http://www.decopix.com/
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/1925/
http://www.allaboutdeco.com/
All this said IMHO,
Have fun,
Syl
P.S. I disagree about the ugliness of the pushbutton Admiral...but it's all a matter of
taste...;o)
Robert Casey
Eddie Brimer wrote:
> IMHO, only the emerson 713 comes close to being deco....but, what do i know?
> deco is in the eye of the beholder.
Well, I marked it as "extra deco". :-)
Bill-
> P.S. I disagree about the ugliness of the pushbutton Admiral...but it's all a matter of
> taste...;o)
Feel free to do so. Its an ugly radio and if I find one at the dump, its
yours.
-Bill
John Byrns
<wa2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
I don't have the slightest idea what "Art deco" really is, but I vote for
the Emerson 713 and the Telechron 7F71 as being "Art deco" like, most of
the others just look like dull old brown radios.
Regards,
John Byrns
Surf my web pages at, http://www.enteract.com/~jbyrns/index.html
Hank Forescen
> As "art deco" is hard to define, if at all possible, I made up a
> web page of the radios I have that I think would qualify as
> art deco style.
It is not hard to define at all. Not all the radios on your site are
Art Deco.
Robert Casey
Hank Forescen wrote:
>
> It is not hard to define at all. Not all the radios on your site are
> Art Deco.
Which are not? Seriously, I'd like some feedback to improve this
page. TIA
radio...@webtv.net
them as ``machine age`` The Philco 38-12 and the 7H-71 clock are
certainly `deco`
I would paint most of them red or some other color !!! I like the
Olympic ...
rich...@telocity.com
I think we need some "professional" help here (like a professional antique
dealer...Sotheby's for example) on the definition of "art deco".
Perhaps your radios should be more appropriately classified as "Art
Moderne".
Stewart Schooley
short way to describe the decorative arts, how the more common things
around us, furniture, appliances, jewelry, even the frames around the
pictures on your walls are done. "Art Nouveau" was the style for these
items before this.
"Fine Arts" refers to painting and architecture and architecture plus
Industrial Design is the main influence on American radio design. As
for painting, I've seen some ugly radios, but nothing I would say that
was inspired by Picasso.
At the beginning of the 20th century, Art Nouveau was all the rage and
as the century progressed it sort of slid into Art Deco. This change was
influenced by the culture of the country, economic conditions and the
introduction of new materials. And most of all, by creative men like
Mies van der Rohe, Frank Lloyd Wright and Raymond Loewy.
Separating distinctions between Art Nouveau and Art Deco is not always
easy. Consider American skyscrapers. The Chrysler building in New York
is basically simple in it's modernism, except for the top part and it is
classic Art Nouveau. I've always thought that Ming the Magnifcent of the
planet Mongo lived there. On the other hand, the Empire State building
has none of this "applied elegance" and is actually simple in design,
yet achieves a stately look unmatched by any other skyscraper. They were
built only a few years apart and show widely different design ideas.
Now consider radios. When I look at a cathedral model I usually see
ornate scrollwork over the grillcloth, often other designs there and
sometimes decorative appliques applied on the radio. Also decorative
pilasters at each corner and decorated molding around the bottom. Throw
in contrasting woods on the front, sometimes with exotic grains and you
have a design that is far more Art Nouveau than it is Art Deco. Even
though cathedrals fall within the time frame we consider as Art Deco.
Tombstones? IMO, [notice-no humble] a tombstone without some Art Nouveau
design elements is an ugly radio.
Let's leave the term "Art Deco" to the eBay hucksters. They might catch
some innocent who only wants one old radio for his home, but won't snare
anyone who is active here. You're involved in the history of radio and
radio design, know what models you like, and what years you like. Debate
here is not necessary and could lead to "one of those threads". Worst of
all, it might bring sloopy88 back.
One last thing, I see they are selling computers in neon colors. Do we
call this "digital modernism?
Stewart
Ken Doyle
your brown bakelite radio is catalin. :-)
Ken D.
<rich...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:9p4t3k$g3788$1...@ID-57801.news.dfncis.de...
Sylvain
I'd say the Emerson 713 is a nice example.
Telechron 7F71 has the correct number deco-style but not the case,
GE 7H154 has a closer case style but not the numbers.
The right half of the Raytheon is, not the left half...
That's my opinion, sorry I don't work for Sotheby's, but I would suspect they
would answer something like, it must be from late 10's and the 20's and come
from a known artist ( listed here: http://www.allaboutdeco.com/France.htm ) -just a wild
guess-
Here's a good description of Art-Deco for buildings, giving good guidelines for
other "objects". http://www.decopix.com/intro.html
Syl
Stewart Schooley
exist there. Again, deco is short for the design of the the common, useful and otherwise,
items we use in our daily lives. If you decorate you home in "Early American", you are simply
borrowing the Art Deco style of an earlier period.
Architecture is not a decorative art, so it cannot be called Art Deco. Architects created new
designs that reflected their ideas of a new century and this new style trickled down to the
common things mentioned. Also, new designers called Industrial Designers appeared and gave
the products of industry a look that reflected the dynamicism of the new machine age. This
too, trickled down.
Having said all this, I know it is to no avail because it is obvious that Art Deco has lost
it's original meaning and is now used to define an era and all design of that era. But, as I
pointed out in my other post, styles do overlap and lot's of variations can occur in an era.
Here's the two terms I keep in mind when judging radio design;
Art Nouveau- In 1900, Paris was the artistic and fashion leader of the western world and the
French of that time certainly had a flair for the florid [how's that for alliteration?] Art
Nouveau is characterized by being curvy, ornate and abounding in decorative features. It was
influenced by exotic themes and subjects. Balance and symmetry were not considered so Art
Nouveau is a Romantic style.
Art Deco- I look for this after the early thirties. Very influenced by architecture and
industrial design. It is simpler and geometrical, more symmetrical and balanced than Art
Nouveau. Ornamentation is subtle and in harmony with the over all design. It is a Classical
style.
I don't mind a little mix and match as I mentioned about tombstones. Art Deco can sometimes
be so plain that it becomes dull to me. This was certainly true about most of the radios in
the original post.
Don't forget to check out this page if you haven't read it
http://www.antiqueradio.com/ArtDeco_6-96.html
Stewart
Don May
<ge...@ncweb.com> wrote:
>Let's leave the term "Art Deco" to the eBay hucksters. They might catch
>some innocent who only wants one old radio for his home, but won't snare
>anyone who is active here. You're involved in the history of radio and
>radio design, know what models you like, and what years you like. Debate
>here is not necessary and could lead to "one of those threads". Worst of
>all, it might bring sloopy88 back.
>
The term "Art Deco" is so abused as a selling gimmick I
agree that it is best to stay away from using it when
selling radios. I have a copy of the book "Radio Art" by
Robert Hawes, in it are many examples of what many consider
classic "Art Deco" but I get the impression that Hawes does
not wish to categorize them under the huge umbrella called
Art Deco rather as Radio Art. I suspect most buyers will
have personal preferences of what style radios turn them on
and they will buy accordingly without having to call it by
any particular style. They are not buying the words Art Deco
they are buying radios that visually give them pleasure. in
my humble opinion.
Don
>
>> As "art deco" is hard to define, if at all possible, I made up a
>> web page of the radios I have that I think would qualify as
>> art deco style.
>> See: http://www.geocities.com/wa2ise/radios/deco.html
>> Most are bakelite. One is a transistor with art deco-ish
>> styling, obviously made after the art deco era was done.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane."
--- Mark Twain
Peter Wieck
qualify one without reservation.
Spammers successfully cancelled to date: 2453
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
USA
Peter Wieck
>http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_1.jpg
>http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_2.jpg
>http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_3.jpg
Nope. Not these either.
Deco: Sparton Bluebird. Sparton Sled.
An extreme stretch: Airline 62-228 or Emerson U5A.
Very damn-few deco radios, comes to it.
rjs
<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1009081341>
Regards,
Robert
William Sommerwerck
Any attempt to meld the styles would produce a decidedly odd -- and visually
"contradictory" effect. Their only similarity is that they both have "Art" in
their names.
The top section of the Chrysler building is Art Deco, not Art Nouveau.
Stewart Schooley
http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_1.jpg
If that picture isn't a perfect example of what I was talking about, I'll burn my
B.A. and M.A. in art.
As for the top of the Chrysler building, it is far too exaggerated to be Art Deco.
Stewart
Bill-
>
> Check out the photo in the first web page Sylvain posted about.
> http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_1.jpg
> If that picture isn't a perfect example of what I was talking about, I'll burn my
> B.A. and M.A. in art.
>
> As for the top of the Chrysler building, it is far too exaggerated to be Art Deco.
>
> Stewart
Here's a much nicer example of that set :-)
http://www.sparkbench.com/sw1252-1.jpg
-Bill
Stewart Schooley
Nice job and I don't blame you for posting it. I'd be proud of it too!
Study the radio while trying not to look at the grill area. It is balanced, stately, and
ornamentation is subdued. Height to width proportion is close to the Golden Mean used by
the Greeks in their Classical temples. It is Art Deco at it's classical best.
Then study the grill area. Sweeping curves and unbalanced, irregular, and exaggerated
shapes say Art Nouveau.
The contrast of styles in this radio is a bit more than I like, but I couldn't ask for a
better example.
Stewart
William Sommerwerck
Deco are two different and distinctive styles.
The differences between Art Nouveau and Art Deco are gross. Any attempt to meld
the styles would produce a decidedly odd -- and visually "contradictory" --
effect. Their only similarity is that they both have "Art" in their names.
The top section of the Chrysler building is Art Deco, not Art Nouveau.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/speak/artdeco.html
http://www.adsw.org/resource/websites/About_Art_Deco/
Buck Frobisher
a combo of the two.
--
"Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs."
regards,
Frank Johansen
Aurora, Ontario
Bill Turner
DO WITH THIS NEWSGROUP.
Please Excuse Caps, Visual Problem
Bill Turner, 1117 Pike St., Saint Charles, MO 63301
DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO ADS.
Turntable felt in med. green. dark green, or brown. Flocked turntables
or ? Three sizes/types of am radio loop antennas, round convex glass
dial covers from 2" to 8 7/8", Plastic dial covers custom made, WD-11
duplicates, Eye tubes/adaptors, Hookup, litz and shielded cable. Four
page"catalog" for an SASE.
Eddie Brimer
i think trying to recognize cabinet styles, and being proficient in same is
very ON-TOPIC.
John Byrns
dial...@webtv.net (Bill Turner) wrote:
> ISN'T THERE SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU GUYS CAN FIGHT OVER ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO
> DO WITH THIS NEWSGROUP.
I don't agree that it has nothing to do with this news group, it has to do
with the styling of radios, which seems to me to be a valid topic for a
radio related group. My only complaint, as someone who doesn't know what
"Art Deco" is, is that the discussion doesn't seem to be coming to a
conclusion, and a definition of "Art Deco" that I can use myself. Come on
guys, give us a good simple definition of of "Art Deco" that we can all
understand.
Eddie Brimer
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/EB062559/radios625/15.jpg
William Sommerwerck
nor have everyday objects ever conformed to a single style.
Art Nouveau and Art Deco have little or nothing in common and are eaily
distinguished. Any attempt to meld the styles would produce a decidedly odd --
and visually "contradictory" -- effect. Their only similarity is that they both
have "Art" in their names.
The top section of the Chrysler building is Art Deco, not Art Nouveau.
There was some revival of Art Nouveau during the "hippie" era of the '60s and
'70s. The last consumer product with an Art Deco design (that I'm aware of) was
the Polaroid SX-70 of 1972. (A strong case could be made for the Chrysler PT
Cruiser.)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/speak/artdeco.html
http://www.adsw.org/resource/websites/About_Art_Deco/
William Sommerwerck
Deco are two different and distinctive styles. Art Deco is not a generic term,
pre-industrial civilizations).
Art Nouveau and Art Deco have little or nothing in common and are eaily
distinguished. Any attempt to meld the styles would produce a decidedly odd --
and visually "contradictory" -- effect. Their only similarity is that they both
have "Art" in their names.
The top section of the Chrysler building is Art Deco, not Art Nouveau.
There was some revival of Art Nouveau during the "hippie" era of the '60s and
'70s. The last Art Deco consumer product (that I'm aware of) was the Polaroid
SX-70 of 1972. (A strong case could be made for the Chrysler PT Cruiser,
though.)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/speak/artdeco.html
http://www.adsw.org/resource/websites/About_Art_Deco/
Bill-
>
> ISN'T THERE SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU GUYS CAN FIGHT OVER ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO
> DO WITH THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
> Please Excuse Caps, Visual Problem
> Bill Turner, 1117 Pike St., Saint Charles, MO 63301
Definition of Deco has nothing to do with old radios? You're kidding,
right?
-BM
Jeffrey D Angus
Art Deco: Rectangular, lots of vertical and horizontal lines.
That picture of the Empire radio is a good example.
Art Nouveau: Lots of curves and details. Think Mocha.
That other picture of the swooping lines on the speaker grill.
Side Note - American Craftsman: Dark, wood, lots of details.
And part of an overall appearance. I.e., a chair side radio, in a
living room where the entire room and furnishings were made to
match the look and feel of the radio.
Jeff.
William Sommerwerck
like Art Nouveau.
John Byrns
Three strikes and you are out! In this case three identical replies to
the same message are enough! We got your message, lathough I don't know
that it really rebuts the statement it is responding to, but poting it
over nad over isn't going to make it more right.
Regards,
John Byrns
In article <3BB71B74...@nwlink.com>, William Sommerwerck
<will...@nwlink.com> wrote:
Jeffrey D Angus
William Sommerwerck wrote:
> Correct, but Art Deco also includes simple, streamlined curves -- not elaborated
> like Art Nouveau.
Right, like those great buildings with the rectangular spires and "saturn" rings...
Bill Turner
PEOPLE?
WOULD YOU DISPOSE OF A RADIO BECAUSE YOU DISCOVER ITS ITS "ART DECO"
RATHER THAN "ART NOUVEAU".
DOES AN "ART NOUVEAU" RADIO PLAY ANY BETTER OR "SWEETER" OR RECEIVE
STATIONS AT A GREATER DISTANCE THAN AN "ART DECO" MODEL?
DID THE MANUFACTURER SPECIFY PRECISELY WHAT STYLE EACH MODEL WAS OR DID
THEY MIX STYLES IN ORDER TO SELL RADIOS.
EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS THIS GROUP GETS IN A HARANGUE ABOUT THIS, NEVER
COMING TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE OTHER SIDE WILL ABIDE BY. IS THIS OF
ANY GREAT IMPORTANCE IN VIEW OF THE WORLD SITUATION?
WILL THE PEOPLE WHO LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE WERE TALKING ABOUT OUR
NEED TO COME TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE, TO REALIZE WHAT WAS IMPORTANT AND
WHAT WAS NOT NOW BACKSLIDE INTO OUR PRIOR WAY OF LIFE? ITS AS IF THE
EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11th NEVER HAPPENED.
Please Excuse Caps, Visual Problem
Bill Turner, 1117 Pike St., Saint Charles, MO 63301
DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO ADS.
John Byrns
dial...@webtv.net (Bill Turner) wrote:
> HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO ENDURE THE SAME ARGUMENTS FROM THE SAME
> PEOPLE?
I would like to see it discussed until its settled.
> WOULD YOU DISPOSE OF A RADIO BECAUSE YOU DISCOVER ITS ITS "ART DECO"
> RATHER THAN "ART NOUVEAU".
No, but I might dispose of it because I discovered it was "Art Nouveau"
rather than "Art Deco".
> DOES AN "ART NOUVEAU" RADIO PLAY ANY BETTER OR "SWEETER" OR RECEIVE
> STATIONS AT A GREATER DISTANCE THAN AN "ART DECO" MODEL?
Generally not, but it may seem to play less well than an "art Deco" model
because it's looks may have a subjective influence on how it seems to
play. The flip sise of the coin is, does a radiot that plays well look
better than one that doesn't play well.
> DID THE MANUFACTURER SPECIFY PRECISELY WHAT STYLE EACH MODEL WAS OR DID
> THEY MIX STYLES IN ORDER TO SELL RADIOS.
Don't know, I would consider that to be part of the discussion.
> EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS THIS GROUP GETS IN A HARANGUE ABOUT THIS, NEVER
> COMING TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE OTHER SIDE WILL ABIDE BY. IS THIS OF
> ANY GREAT IMPORTANCE IN VIEW OF THE WORLD SITUATION?
Is anything related to old radios of importance in view of the world
situation? I think we need some diversion from the world situation, we
can't be ocessing over the world situation every waking minute.
> WILL THE PEOPLE WHO LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE WERE TALKING ABOUT OUR
> NEED TO COME TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE, TO REALIZE WHAT WAS IMPORTANT AND
> WHAT WAS NOT NOW BACKSLIDE INTO OUR PRIOR WAY OF LIFE? ITS AS IF THE
> EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11th NEVER HAPPENED.
Why don't you practice what you preach and stop lambasting people for
discussing radio cabinet styles. You seem to be the main one acting as if
the events of September 11th never happened.
Stewart Schooley
attending classes at the local WPA Art Center. These centers were set up as part
of the New Deal to give employment to artists. I attended Saturday morning
classes for kids and evening classes with adults until eary1942 when the WPA was
disbanded because of WW2.
My career was in teaching art and I have taught every grade level from first
grade through community college. This doesn't make me the world's greatest
expert, but the reason I am in this thread is because I believe I know what I am
talking about.
The only question remaining here is what is a good definition of Art Deco? I've
looked at all the links posted here and you are not going to find it in any one
of them. You're going to find more confusion.
I recommend that you turn to your TV as a learning guide. If you're killing time
watching TV, see if there is a musical or comedy in an urban setting and made
from 1932 to 1940. Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, William Powell, and Carole
Lombard movies are the best. Forget the movie and notice the tables, chairs,
every aspect of the decor including doors, stairs and handrails. It won't take
many movies before you begin to "absorb" a good sense of what Art Deco is.
Interestingly, as you see later 30s movies, Art Deco becomes more and more
simplified. To the point that that simplicity beomes exaggerated. That sounds
oxymoronic, but take my word for it. You'll notice it. This exaggeration is part
of the normal development of a style and is called the Flamboyant Period. This
signifies that the style is coming to an end.
Don't forget the popcorn,
Stewart
Jeffrey D Angus
or something?
jeff
Sylvain
> Check out the photo in the first web page Sylvain posted about.
> http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/deco_1.jpg
> If that picture isn't a perfect example of what I was talking about, I'll burn my
> B.A. and M.A. in art.
Need a match ?
Hey, just joking....-haha
But as for the Chrysler building, it is of the correct era, you really think it's too
exaggerated ?
Syl
Sylvain
> Bill,
>
> Nice job and I don't blame you for posting it. I'd be proud of it too!
>
> Study the radio while trying not to look at the grill area. It is balanced, stately, and
> ornamentation is subdued. Height to width proportion is close to the Golden Mean used by
> the Greeks in their Classical temples. It is Art Deco at it's classical best.
>
> Then study the grill area. Sweeping curves and unbalanced, irregular, and exaggerated
> shapes say Art Nouveau.
>
> The contrast of styles in this radio is a bit more than I like, but I couldn't ask for a
> better example.
Darn...you're right Stewart...but if the grille had straight lines it would have been
Art-Deco,
right ?
Syl
Sylvain
> HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO ENDURE THE SAME ARGUMENTS FROM THE SAME
> PEOPLE?
>
> WOULD YOU DISPOSE OF A RADIO BECAUSE YOU DISCOVER ITS ITS "ART DECO"
> RATHER THAN "ART NOUVEAU".
>
> DOES AN "ART NOUVEAU" RADIO PLAY ANY BETTER OR "SWEETER" OR RECEIVE
> STATIONS AT A GREATER DISTANCE THAN AN "ART DECO" MODEL?
>
> DID THE MANUFACTURER SPECIFY PRECISELY WHAT STYLE EACH MODEL WAS OR DID
> THEY MIX STYLES IN ORDER TO SELL RADIOS.
>
> EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS THIS GROUP GETS IN A HARANGUE ABOUT THIS, NEVER
> COMING TO A CONCLUSION THAT THE OTHER SIDE WILL ABIDE BY. IS THIS OF
> ANY GREAT IMPORTANCE IN VIEW OF THE WORLD SITUATION?
Bill,
If you think a radio cabinet has no basis for discussion, get rid of all your radio cases
and start collecting
chassis. A cabinet and style is part of collecting radios, I don't collect radios based
only on their technical
specs. This is a discussion and it has to do about radios, right on topic.
Syl
Bill-
> I recommend that you turn to your TV as a learning guide. If you're killing time
> watching TV, see if there is a musical or comedy in an urban setting and made
> from 1932 to 1940. Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, William Powell, and Carole
> Lombard movies are the best. Forget the movie and notice the tables, chairs,
> every aspect of the decor including doors, stairs and handrails. It won't take
> many movies before you begin to "absorb" a good sense of what Art Deco is.
>
> Interestingly, as you see later 30s movies, Art Deco becomes more and more
> simplified. To the point that that simplicity beomes exaggerated. That sounds
> oxymoronic, but take my word for it. You'll notice it. This exaggeration is part
> of the normal development of a style and is called the Flamboyant Period. This
> signifies that the style is coming to an end.
>
> Don't forget the popcorn,
>
> Stewart
Since this issue really needs more belabouring, where does 'Moderne' fit
into the picture? Would you say that alot of what was called Moderne in
the 30s is what we are calling Deco in this era? If not, where's the
difference.
What would you call this style?
http://www.sparkbench.com/decoormoderne.jpg
-Bill
BH
'art yucko' or whatever and there is no clear definition of any of
it, like so much art it is a matter of personal interpretation.
There will be as many opinions as the number of people discussing
the subject and it can go on and on and never come to a single
conclusion.
Bill H.
Stewart Schooley
As for the radio, the grill could have been round and cut out in any
number of geometric
patterns that had order and regularity to them and it would be Art Deco.
And it would
have been a better looking radio. As I said, the contrast of styles in
this radio is a
bit more than I care for. This radio is a candidate for what William
Sommerwerk was
talking about, differing styles creating conflict. It's a general rule
in art that when
you combine strong contrasts you have to make one clearly dominant. In
this case the
grill area fights for equal attention with the rest of the radio. That
is conflict.
For a really interesting radio, look at the cathedral in the photo
posted by Eddie
Brimer. It is Art Deco, but the oval grill and curved cutouts give it a
sensuous quality
that is derived from Art Nouveau. This is my idea of a good looking
radio and how
something from one style can be successfully integrated into another
style.
Hmmmn!.....sensuous? Most be a French influence there, don't you think?
I can understand some people doubting my claim that the top of the
Chrysler building is
more Art Nouveau than Art Deco, but if it was finished in 1930 the
design must have been
completed in 1927. Look at radios of that year and see how much
ornamentation and other
Art Nouveau design elements they have. Then compare them both to radios
and architecture
of 1937 and I think you will see what I mean.
BH
John Byrns wrote:
>
> > WOULD YOU DISPOSE OF A RADIO BECAUSE YOU DISCOVER ITS ITS "ART DECO"
> > RATHER THAN "ART NOUVEAU".
>
> No, but I might dispose of it because I discovered it was "Art Nouveau"
> rather than "Art Deco".
>
So you have this radio you really like because you think it is
'art deco' but you discover it is really 'art nouveau' so now you
no longer like the style?
Bill H.
Bill Turner
THAT IS ENOUGH, I BUY AND RENOVATE IT. CONTRARIANS MAY DISPOSE OF A
RADIO BECAUSE OF ITS STYLE, NOT I. READ MR. SCHOOLEYS DISSERTATION AS
TO THE SUBLE CHANGES, I THINK IT POINTS OUT THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THIS
ENTIRE DISCUSSION AND MOST LIKELY THE LENGTHS HUMANS WILL GO TO TO BE
"RIGHT" ABOUT A GIVEN SUBJECT. WITH THIS POST I WITHDRAW FROM THE
SUBJECT BEFORE SOMEONE SUGGESTS THAT THE CHASSIS ALSO HAS A STYLE AND
INVITES ME TO SELL THEM TOO.
William Sommerwerck
Have you ever heard of ISP errors?
My message was posted four or five times because my ISP kept telling me that it
could not connect to the mail server. From my point of view, the message hadn't been
sent at all. So I sent it until I got a valid reply.
You really ought to ask before pointing a finger. And, yes, my message does properly
rebut the original statement.
John Byrns wrote:
> Three strikes and you are out! In this case three identical replies to the same
> message are enough! We got your message, although I don't know that it really
> rebuts the statement it is responding to, but posting it over nad over isn't going
William Sommerwerck
Communists -- ie, people whose point of view differs in any way from his.
Jeffrey D Angus wrote:
> Geeze Bill, did you sit down wrong with a bunch of keys in your pocket or
> something?
>
>
Stewart Schooley
I'm enjoying this thread. Right now I am supposed to be doing a couple "honey do" jobs
for my wife. If she complains, I'll blame it on you guys.
Modern, Moderne is the big word, the big picture of the 20th century. All the Fine
Arts were caught up in the Modern movement. There were proably hundreds of different
expressions of Modernism going on. Some were very influential and lasted and others
quickly faded away.
You are right, people of the 30s would not have used the term Art Deco. Tey would
have used Moden Art or just plain Modernism. The name Art Deco was first used in a
1968 book about the Paris exhibit of decorative arts in 1925.
Here's where your radio fits into the four stages of a style. They are;
Archaic Period- The first expressions of a new style.
Classical Period- The style reaches the full development of it's particular
expression. This is where your radio belongs. It has all the elements of classical Art
Deco.
Flamboyant Period- Exaggeration sets in and the style is on it's way out.
Return to a previous style- Old styles are brought back during the period before new
styles emerge.
The big word today is Post-Modernism and it implies that all that was Modern is out
and new styles will develop. I have no idea what will shake out from what is going on
today. If I did, I would be out there leading the way.
Stewart
Stewart Schooley
I'm enjoying this thread. Right now I am supposed to be doing a couple "honey do" jobs
for my wife. If she complains, I'll blame it on you guys.
Modern, Moderne is the big word, the big picture of the 20th century. all the Fine
Arts were caught up in the Modern movement. There were proably hundreds of different
expressions of Modernism going on. Some were very influential and lasted and others
quickly faded away.
You are right, people of the 30s would not have used the term Art Deco. They would
have used Moden Art or just plain Modenism. The name Art Deco was first used in a 1968
book about the Paris exhibit of decorative arts in 1925.
Here's where your radio fits into the four stages of a style. They are;
Archaic Period- The first expressions of a new style.
Classical Period- The style reaches the full development of it's particular
expression. This is where your radio belongs. It has all the elements of classical Art
Deco.
Flamboyant Period- Exaggeration sets in and the style is on it's way out.
Return to a previous style- Old styles are brought back during the period before new
styles emerge.
The big word today is Post-Modernism and it implies that all that was Modern is out
and new styles will develop. I have no idea what will shake out from what is going on
today. If I did, I would be out there leading the way.
Stewart
Gridleak
Why do you have to turn discussions into arguments?
Don
BH
them. My philosophy is pretty simple, if I like the radio, I keep
it, if not I may get rid of it, art deco or art whatever has
nothing to do with it.
Bill H.
Sylvain
> SYL, I'M NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO CARE WHAT CASE ITS IN. IF IT PLEASES ME
> THAT IS ENOUGH, I BUY AND RENOVATE IT. CONTRARIANS MAY DISPOSE OF A
> RADIO BECAUSE OF ITS STYLE, NOT I. READ MR. SCHOOLEYS DISSERTATION AS
> TO THE SUBLE CHANGES, I THINK IT POINTS OUT THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THIS
> ENTIRE DISCUSSION AND MOST LIKELY THE LENGTHS HUMANS WILL GO TO TO BE
> "RIGHT" ABOUT A GIVEN SUBJECT. WITH THIS POST I WITHDRAW FROM THE
> SUBJECT BEFORE SOMEONE SUGGESTS THAT THE CHASSIS ALSO HAS A STYLE AND
> INVITES ME TO SELL THEM TOO.
Bill,
If you can provide an Art-Deco chassis, I'm buying -hahahaha
I don't agree with your saying about being stupid by being interested in radio
cabinet's style. The point is not that people would dispose of a radio because
they thought it was Art-Deco when in fact it isn't (J.B. saying about this was
meant as a joke, I'm sure) Unless again, someone is collecting radios
of a certain style, even then....BTW, lotsa collectors did dispose of
radios (I am sure) because they do not like their -style- anymore. Taste
in radios may change, may be it about cabinet styling, technical etc.
I have a friend who's deep into catalin and is getting rid of his entire Bakelite,
wood and other plastic radios. His taste has changed and I'm not the one to
tell him he's stupid. This is the kind of radio I got from him:
http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/majestic.jpg
And I took it BECAUSE of the style (although I couldn't care less what style it
is, I like it, period) and that is part of the discussion here. I don't think anyone
is trying to be any more right than others, just to get a somewhat definitive answer
on defining what Art-Deco really is...we'll see...;o)
Syl
Sylvain
> Dear Mr. Byrns;
>
> Have you ever heard of ISP errors?
I hate to do this, but I think JB was joking about your multiple posts. I was tempted
to do the same -although you KNOW when "I" am joking- but refrain myself after
JB's post -I saw that coming...- whatever...
Syl
Sylvain
> What would you call this style?
> http://www.sparkbench.com/decoormoderne.jpg
>
> -Bill
Art-toodeetoo...? (got it?)
Syl
Alan Douglas
Stewart wrote:
>For a really interesting radio, look at the cathedral in the photo
>posted by Eddie Brimer. It is Art Deco, but the oval grill and
>curved cutouts give it a sensuous quality that is derived from
>Art Nouveau. This is my idea of a good looking radio and how
>something from one style can be successfully integrated into
>another style.
This is the most interesting topic of discussion in the past few
weeks, but I'm losing track of who posted photos of what where. Can
someone repeat the URLs all in one place?
I dug out my copy of ARC for June 1996. Since it has lots of photos
grouped together for easy reference, I wonder what people's opinions
are of the various models shown? I guess we already know Gerald
Schneider's take, since he wrote the article, but evidently there are
many opinions possible, from knowledgeable people. I admit I don't
know anything, except that the only radio shown in that article that I
would have in my house is the Crosley Gemchest. And in fact I've had a
pair of red and green ones in an upstairs bedroom doing service as
night stands, for twenty years or more.
Cheers, Alan
Bill-
Yeah, but R2D2 from an OLD movie, not the new one. I actually like it
but have been informed that I'm in the minority.
-Bill
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net
John Byrns
No, you got me there, I think I got mixed up in my meaning.
John Byrns
dial...@webtv.net (Bill Turner) wrote:
> SYL, I'M NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO CARE WHAT CASE ITS IN. IF IT PLEASES ME
> THAT IS ENOUGH, I BUY AND RENOVATE IT. CONTRARIANS MAY DISPOSE OF A
> RADIO BECAUSE OF ITS STYLE, NOT I. READ MR. SCHOOLEYS DISSERTATION AS
> TO THE SUBLE CHANGES, I THINK IT POINTS OUT THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THIS
> ENTIRE DISCUSSION AND MOST LIKELY THE LENGTHS HUMANS WILL GO TO TO BE
> "RIGHT" ABOUT A GIVEN SUBJECT. WITH THIS POST I WITHDRAW FROM THE
> SUBJECT BEFORE SOMEONE SUGGESTS THAT THE CHASSIS ALSO HAS A STYLE AND
> INVITES ME TO SELL THEM TOO.
Well yes, the chassis does have a definate style, or styles, but that is a
different discussion. The same rules apply to selling though, as apply to
cabinet style.
John Byrns
Oh no, Stewart has caught William's ISP disease.
Regards,
John Byrns
In article <3BB777E4...@ncweb.com>, Stewart Schooley
<ge...@ncweb.com> wrote:
John Byrns
<old_r...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> Bill Turner wrote:
>
> > SYL, I'M NOT STUPID ENOUGH TO CARE WHAT CASE ITS IN. IF IT PLEASES ME
> > THAT IS ENOUGH, I BUY AND RENOVATE IT. CONTRARIANS MAY DISPOSE OF A
> > RADIO BECAUSE OF ITS STYLE, NOT I. READ MR. SCHOOLEYS DISSERTATION AS
> > TO THE SUBLE CHANGES, I THINK IT POINTS OUT THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THIS
> > ENTIRE DISCUSSION AND MOST LIKELY THE LENGTHS HUMANS WILL GO TO TO BE
> > "RIGHT" ABOUT A GIVEN SUBJECT. WITH THIS POST I WITHDRAW FROM THE
> > SUBJECT BEFORE SOMEONE SUGGESTS THAT THE CHASSIS ALSO HAS A STYLE AND
> > INVITES ME TO SELL THEM TOO.
>
> Bill,
>
> If you can provide an Art-Deco chassis, I'm buying -hahahaha
>
> I don't agree with your saying about being stupid by being interested in radio
> cabinet's style. The point is not that people would dispose of a radio because
> they thought it was Art-Deco when in fact it isn't (J.B. saying about this was
> meant as a joke, I'm sure)
No, actually I think I was just confused, it may have been what some call
a senior moment, or something like that.
Basically I like waht I like, but I am interested in knowing what it might
be the proper name for any particular radio's style, if it has a well
defined style.
> Unless again, someone is collecting radios
> of a certain style, even then....BTW, lotsa collectors did dispose of
> radios (I am sure) because they do not like their -style- anymore. Taste
> in radios may change, may be it about cabinet styling, technical etc.
>
> I have a friend who's deep into catalin and is getting rid of his entire
Bakelite,
> wood and other plastic radios. His taste has changed and I'm not the one to
> tell him he's stupid. This is the kind of radio I got from him:
>
> http://pages.infinit.net/oldradio/temp/majestic.jpg
>
> And I took it BECAUSE of the style (although I couldn't care less what
style it
> is, I like it, period) and that is part of the discussion here. I don't
think anyone
> is trying to be any more right than others, just to get a somewhat
definitive answer
> on defining what Art-Deco really is...we'll see...;o)
>
> Syl
Stephen W. Worth
<will...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> Oh, come off it. The differences between Art Nouveau and Art Deco are gross.
Deco incorporates a lot of ornamentation. Many 20's movie palaces
like the Wiltern in Los Angeles are Deco. Radios are usually not
in this style though. They are either Moderne or Streamline Moderne.
See ya
Steve
High Quality CDs of Classic Historical Recordings
VIP Records: http://www.vintageip.com/records/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Spumco Cartoons: http://www.spumco.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vintage Ink & Paint Animation Art
http://www.vintageip.com
Stephen W. Worth
grend...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Art Deco: Rectangular, lots of vertical and horizontal lines.
You have deco mistaken for Moderne. There is also the Bauhaus
style which is sparer and more refined.
If anyone wants definitions and examples of these terms, a
trip to the public library would be in order.
Stephen W. Worth
<will...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> Correct, but Art Deco also includes simple, streamlined curves
> not elaborated like Art Nouveau.
That isn't true. Deco incorporates abstract ornamentation. Nouveau
uses naturalistic forms. They are both heavy with ornamentation.
Bauhaus and Moderne are the styles with simple streamlined curves.
(Yes, I went to design school and studied this stuff...)
Eddie Brimer
>SUBJECT
THANK YOU
Eddie Brimer
2480 S. Beersheba Rd.
Sharon SC, 29742
visit my web page "THIS OLD RADIO"
http://members.aol.com/EB062559/THISOLDRADIOINDEX.html
Sylvain
>
> Yeah, but R2D2 from an OLD movie, not the new one. I actually like it
> but have been informed that I'm in the minority.
> -Bill
Whenever you get in the majority, send it in, someone has to be in the minority then...
Syl
Jeffrey D Angus
*grin* Let's see anyone else admit that...
Jeff
Both this and the previous reply on Art Deco vs Modern
DaveW
Now that's what I would call Art Deco. So is my Zenith 10S464.
The question is where does Art Nouveau turn into Art Deco and then turn into Streamline
Modern?
Streamline Modern? See the the now destroyed Pan Pacific Auditorium in Los Angeles. (Or
the Coca Cola plant on 14th and Central, still there as of last Saturday!)
Art Nouveau... Woolworth Building...touches of Gothic are a characteristic to Nouveau, I
think.
Art Deco...Chrysler Building, the old Bullocks Wilshire Building in LA.
Streamline Modern...see above.
Flamboyant....Disney animation building in Burbank!
Or we could use automobiles.
38 Packard Art Deco
Buick "Yjob" show car Streamline Modern
Buick LeSabre show car and 59 Cadillac and 60 Chevy Flamboyant!
Dave
Robert Casey
Alan Douglas wrote:
>
>
> This is the most interesting topic of discussion in the past few
> weeks, but I'm losing track of who posted photos of what where. Can
> someone repeat the URLs all in one place?
Well I rearranged my page from feedback from this thread I started:
http://www.geocities.com/wa2ise/radios/deco.html
Reclassified some radios as "moderne" and only a few stayed in
"deco". And a few "somewhat deco". All my pages are
"works in progress", ie, getting updated and changed over time.
Peter Wieck
what/who Art Deco might be, but I know what I like.
For the most part, Art Deco is a specific segment of Art Moderne and Machine
Art (for what I think may be one of the most gorgeous examples of Machine Art
would be Raymond Loewys GG-1 Locomotive)
http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/elec/gg1/xpc4808ef.jpg
even in Olive Drab, it is gorgeous.
I would also posit that there are considerable overlaps and mixes of the types
and styles, some of them quite confusing were they to be required to be
"defined".
Please also note that all of these names were designated "after the fact" and
therefore imposed on (a) style(s). This leads to dangerous assumptions if any
level of precision is required.... and with art that is a silly requirement in
any case.
Like most academic debates the battles are most vicious when the stakes are the
smallest....
As it applies to radios, my tastes run towards the unusual and/or brightest
designs... then to function. I also very much enjoy hidden details... I have a
rather ordinary looking coffin-box with the absolutely wonderful nickel-silver
innards and other detailing that most would not waste on something mostly
concealed. I like the earlier examples of Zenith Black Dials up to the classic
shutterdials, but the dial on the 10S464 noted previously looks overly small on
the cabinet (which I would classify as Machine Art, rather than Deco... but
that is also splitting hairs). Most would put the Sparton Sled & Bluebird as
deco, I would suggest that they are more clearly moderne....
In any case, like the blind men and the elephant, opinions may vary, but the
object in question remains the same.
Spammers successfully cancelled to date: 2453
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
USA
Tim Mullen
I, too, find this one of the most interesting threads to pass thru
my newsreader in quite some time. I'm an electrical engineer by trade,
but a lot of the reason for collecting old radios and televisions, for
me, is style. They look drop-dead gorgeous even when turned off!
Styling that trips my trigger is mostly that which the meat of this
discussion has been about so far -- deco/moderne/streamline/noveau.
In that direction I'll confess to a penchant for what might be called
"Rocketships-with-rivets deco", that extreme machine styling usually
only found in Buck & Flash epics.
This leads me to a question. Tying in with the above-mentioned
styling, I find some of the early electrical looks to blend quite
well, at least so far as my decorating tastes go. A radio example
of this would be the AK breadboard series. Just what, if anything,
would this be called? Yes, it's utilitarian, but at the same time
there's distinct styling. (And if style weren't important, I can't
think of any other reason these go for so much more that the AK
coffins.) Certainly there was *some* attempt at beautification,
but for the life of me I'd be at a loss to desribe it.
And why is this important? Well, it helps when shopping, for one.
Just saying "I like old radios" is a wee bit broad for me. I've been
reduced to waving my hands about and asking for electrical stuff that's
kinda "Frankenstein". Franken-style, perhaps?
--
Tim Mullen
------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc.
------ finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552 -------