Examples of Mangika/Koutsavakika

[Tiffany D]

Geia sas,

Awhile ago, I was talking with a very good friend of mine and he
mentioned that, of the Piraeus Quartet, Batis was the only one to
really speak in the manga style. I 've heard him speak, but of
course, he didn't record many songs, so I couldn't get a clear enough
example of it. Still, I did notice some differences and they didn't
seem to be there for show. I know Markos didn't have that kind of
accent, cause I've heard him speak for extended periods of time in the
interviews. He and Tsitsanis are the only rebetes who I've heard
speak outside of their music. I know I've heard others in passing,
but I didn't know who was who. Anyway, I'd like to know if there are
any examples of real mangika or something close to it, either in
rebetika itself or in film, that I can hear. I'm not talking about
the exagerated stuff done for commedies etc, but something that's
actually similar to how they would've spoken.

Thanks,
Tiffanitsa

[Tiffany D]

Just to clarify, they don't have to include slang. I'm just looking
for tone and speed etc. Anything else is a bonus.

[mastouras]

Kantone ver Koche ena notouzenriako tis voltes mou na paro

On Feb 20, 12:31 pm, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to clarify, they don't have to include slang.  I'm just looking
> for tone and speed etc.  Anything else is a bonus.
>

> On 2/19/08, Tiffany D <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Geia sas,
>
> > Awhile ago, I was talking with a very good friend of mine and he
> > mentioned that, of the Piraeus Quartet, Batis was the only one to
> > really speak in the manga style.  I 've heard him speak, but of
> > course, he didn't record many songs, so I couldn't get a clear enough
> > example of it.  Still, I did notice some differences and they didn't
> > seem to be there for show.  I know Markos didn't have that kind of
> > accent, cause I've heard him speak for extended periods of time in the
> > interviews.  He and Tsitsanis are the only rebetes who I've heard
> > speak outside of their music.  I know I've heard others in passing,
> > but I didn't know who was who.  Anyway, I'd like to know if there are
> > any examples of real mangika or something close to it, either in
> > rebetika itself or in film, that I can hear.  I'm not talking about
> > the exagerated stuff done for commedies etc, but something that's
> > actually similar to how they would've spoken.
>
> > Thanks,

> > Tiffanitsa- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Nikos A. Politis]

Dear Tiffany, it is totally impossible to find genuine recorded
speech. But do not undervalue recordings of the record industry, of
course they are all imitations but some of the actors are good. O
Stavrakas mes' ston teke is a good example and there is also some
prosa from the light musical theatre too.

On Feb 20, 5:31 am, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to clarify, they don't have to include slang. I'm just looking
> for tone and speed etc. Anything else is a bonus.
>

[Tiffany D]

I was under the impression that this was really exagerated and not
true to form, especially O Stavrakas mes' ston teke. As for the other
things, I've never heard them so can't say.

[Nikos A. Politis]

Yes, it is exaggerated but not too far away from reality. Anyway, we
simply don't know what the reality was.

On Feb 20, 3:41 pm, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was under the impression that this was really exagerated and not
> true to form, especially O Stavrakas mes' ston teke. As for the other
> things, I've never heard them so can't say.
>

[Mr. Narghile]

Has that Stavrakas dialogue been translated to english anywhere?

dave

[Nikos A. Politis]

I could try to translate the dialogue in plain, correct English (no
slang) if only one could write down the words for me.

[Tiffany D]

That would be great. I don't think it's written anywhere, but I do
have the song and can put it up if you'd like. I must admit, though,
that I'd be interested in it with the slang as well, if there is slang
used in the original, since it would make it more authentic, like that
beautiful translation of the autobiography of Papioanou.

[Nikos A. Politis]

Well, here is what I could get together:

Ώωωχ!
-Ρε Σταύρακα, αδερφάκι, είσαι εν πλήρει τάξει! Νταλγκαδιασμένο μου
΄σαι, γιατί ακούω διπλοπεννιά στην τρίχα!
-Γιατί ρε Νώντα; σου χάλασε τη μάπα σου;
-Τι λέει ρε το μηλίγκι σου το κλούβιο, ρέ; Η τσίκα μου αδερφάκι
στραβολαίμη είναι εντάξει. Ακροάσου αργελεδάκι!

(γκούχ γκούχ!)
-Ξηγιέμαι μαυράκι της Πόλης!
-Κάνε μώκο ρε και είσαι τέρτσος. Το δικό μου ρε είναι από την
Προύσα. Ρε, δεν έχεις μύτη; δεν αντιλήβεσαι; Τράβα μία να οσφρανθούν
τα τσινέρια σου!

-Αδερφέ μου Σταύρακα, λιγώθηκα! Δεν το γυρίζεις στο ζεϊμπέκικο, να
κάνουμε καμμιά βολτίτσα; Άντε μπράβο!
-Το ΄χεις με το πρώτο, αδερφάκι!

Ρε βλάμη, το ΄φαγες το μπουζούκι, το ΄φαγες.
Μπράβο! Όμορφα πράγματα!
Γειά σου Σταύρακα, ποτέ να μην πεθάνεις!
Ώχου ρε Παναγία μου, ντάλα, τα ντουμάνια μας πήρανε βρε, ώχ...
Άρπα την!


Oh!
-Stavraka, brother, you are perfectly all right! You must be in mood,
I note excellent playing!
-Why that, Nonda? did it disturb your head?
-What is your empty head talking about? My dose is ok, brother
twistneck! Listen to the narghile!

-I'm featuring Istanbul black!
-You better shut up, you range last! Mine comes from Bursa. Don't
you posess a nose? Don't you notice? Have a sniff, for your nostrils
to get the smell!

-Brother Stavraka, I'm getting in the mood! Why don't you switch to a
zeibekiko, so we can exercise a round? Come on!
- Immediate response, brother!

Brother, you will rub your bouzouki down!
Bravo! Nice happening!
Cheers to you, Stavraka, you may never die!
Oh, bless me, it's full, the smoke gets thicker!
Have one from me, too!

On Feb 21, 7:28 pm, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That would be great. I don't think it's written anywhere, but I do
> have the song and can put it up if you'd like. I must admit, though,
> that I'd be interested in it with the slang as well, if there is slang
> used in the original, since it would make it more authentic, like that
> beautiful translation of the autobiography of Papioanou.
>

[AKRITAS]

Ηey Niko!  That's a very good translation...

 

One question:  what does "range last" mean?

 

One observation:  near the end, the syntax should be "may you never die"

 

Very good translation - I could never, ever do this one - too much slang! 

 

Nice job!

 

Akritas

"Nikos A. Politis" <nik...@otenet.gr> wrote:

Well, here is what I could get together:

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(㪯??t;br>-Χ㩠졩 졵񜪩 ?м맲!
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?ó©­ ñ©¡ ó¯µ¡

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ѥ ⫝̸짬 ??򠴯 찯?ꩬ ??򮦬t;br>̰񜢯! ?쯱?񜣬ᴡ!
å霠󯵠Ӵά᪡, ð¯´ í¡ ì§­ ð¥¨œí¥©ò¡¦¬t;br>??ñ¥  ᭡㟡 쯵, í´œë¡¬ ??ܭ顠졲 ðž±¡í¥ â±¥, ?t;br>?ñ°¡ ?

Oh!
-Stavraka, brother, you are perfectly all right! You must be in mood,
I note excellent playing!
-Why that, Nonda? did it disturb your head?
-What is your empty head talking about? My dose is ok, brother
twistneck! Listen to the narghile!

-I'm featuring Istanbul black!
-You better shut up, you range last! Mine comes from Bursa. Don't
you posess a nose? Don't you notice? Have a sniff, for your nostrils
to get the smell!

-Brother Stavraka, I'm getting in the mood! Why don't you switch to a
zeibekiko, so we can exercise a round? Come on!
- Immediate response, brother!

Brother, you will rub your bouzouki down!
Bravo! Nice happening!
Cheers to you, Stavraka, you may never die!
Oh, bless me, it's full, the smoke gets thicker!
Have one from me, too!

On Feb 21, 7:28 pm, "Tiffany D" wrote:
> That would be great. I don't think it's written anywhere, but I do
> have the song and can put it up if you'd like. I must admit, though,
> that I'd be interested in it with the slang as well, if there is slang
> used in the original, since it would make it more authentic, like that
> beautiful translation of the autobiography of Papioanou.
>

> On 2/21/08, Nikos A. Politis wrote:
>
>
>
> > I could try to translate the dialogue in plain, correct English (no
> > slang) if only one could write down the words for me.
>

> > On Feb 20, 9:52 pm, "Mr. Narghile" wrote:
> > > Has that Stavrakas dialogue been translated to english anywhere?
>
> > > dave
>

> > > On Feb 20, 10:22 am, "Nikos A. Politis" wrote:
>
> > > > Yes, it is exaggerated but not too far away from reality. Anyway, we
> > > > simply don't know what the reality was.
>

> > > > On Feb 20, 3:41 pm, "Tiffany D" wrote:
>
> > > > > I was under the impression that this was really exagerated and not
> > > > > true to form, especially O Stavrakas mes' ston teke. As for the other
> > > > > things, I've never heard them so can't say.
>

> > > > > On 2/20/08, Nikos A. Politis wrote:
>
> > > > > > Dear Tiffany, it is totally impossible to find genuine recorded
> > > > > > speech. But do not undervalue recordings of the record industry, of
> > > > > > course they are all imitations but some of the actors are good. O
> > > > > > Stavrakas mes' ston teke is a good example and there is also some
> > > > > > prosa from the light musical theatre too.
>

> > > > > > On Feb 20, 5:31 am, "Tiffany D" wrote:
> > > > > > > Just to clarify, they don't have to include slang. I'm just
> > looking
> > > > > > > for tone and speed etc. Anything else is a bonus.
>

[Tiffany D]

Wonderful translation! Maybe, I'll forget about trying to find Lexiko
Tis Piatsas and call on you whenever I need some koutsavakika. I've
gotta test Spiros with this, now that I know it's full of slang. I'm
so bad! *smile*

On 2/21/08, AKRITAS <akri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ηey Niko! That's a very good translation...
>
> One question: what does "range last" mean?
>
> One observation: near the end, the syntax should be "may you never die"
>
> Very good translation - I could never, ever do this one - too much slang!
>
> Nice job!
>
> Akritas
>
>
> "Nikos A. Politis" <nik...@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
> Well, here is what I could get together:
>

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> ?ïµ ?ó¥ ´ç ¬Ü°á ³ïµ»

> -Ô(c) ë ¥é ±å ´ï ¬ç«Ÿãª(c) ó¯µ ?믽â(c)¯, ñ »
> Ç ?á ¬ïµ á¤¥ñ¶œªé¦¬t;br>ó´±¡â¯«áŸ¬ç ¥ß­á(c) å­´Ü(R)å(c)(R)

> ?ñ¯œ³ïµ ᱣ嫥䜪顦lt;br>

> (㪯??t;br>-Χã(c) ì¡(c) 졵ñœª(c) ?м맲!
> -Êœí¥ ì¾ªï ±å ªá(c) 埳á(c) ?ó¯²(R) Ô¯ ä(c)ª?ñ¥ ¥ß­á(c) á°¼ ?lt;br>бｳá(R) Ñ¥, 䥭
> Ý·å(c)² ì½´ç» ä¥­ ᭴髞⥳á(c)» Ô±Ü¢á ¬ß¡ í¡ ï³¶ñ¡­¨ï½­
> ?ó(c)­ ñ(c)¡ 󯵡
>
> -?å±¶Ý ì¯µ Ӵά᪡, ë(c)£? Ä¥í ´ï £?å(c)² ó´¯ æ¥ºì°
> ê(c)ªï¬ í¡¦lt;br>êœ­ïµ¬å ªá¬¬éœ â¯«?á» ?í´¥ 찱ܢlt;br>-Ô¯ ?? ì¥ ?ñ¾´¯,

> ᤥ񶜪顦lt;br>

> Ñ¥ ⫝̸짬 ??ò ´¯ ì°¯?ê(c)¬ ??ò(R)¦¬t;br>Ì°ñœ¢¯! ?쯱?ñœ£¬á´¡!
> Ã¥éœ ó¯µ Ó´á½±áª¡, ð¯´ í¡ ì§­ 𥨜í¥(c)ò¡¦¬t;br>??ñ¥ ᭡㟡 쯵, í´œë¡¬

[mastouras]

(Niko, A lot I didn't understand, the explanations make it more fun to
listen to….I felt very few words could be translated slightly
differently … maybe/maybe not… respectfully submitted):

-Ρε Σταύρακα, αδερφάκι, είσαι εν πλήρει τάξει! Νταλγκαδιασμένο μου
΄σαι, γιατί ακούω διπλοπεννιά στην τρίχα!

-Stavraka, brother, you are perfectly all right! You must be in mood,

I hear excellent playing!

( I would have thought this related to a high mood, good mood, good
spirits .. ."in a mood" in English can sound like someone is in bad
spirits or bad mood.
The "I hear excellent playing" sounds a tad too formal for the way
Nonda says it to his comrade… However you would have to use slang
relevant to different current subcultures.. " hear double pickings in
the mix !")

Γιατί ρε Νώντα; σου χάλασε τη μάπα σου;

I believe Mapa in this sentence -refers to this arghile (Evidenced in
another song sung by Nina where she says she want to watch how they
hold the mapa in the teke and smoke it - Mes tou mathou tou teke, or
another, it' son the Mortika cd in any case)
So what Stavraka is effectively saying is "-Why that, Nonda? did it
disturb your arghile?"

-Αδερφέ μου Σταύρακα, λιγώθηκα! Δεν το γυρίζεις στο ζεϊμπέκικο, να
κάνουμε καμμιά βολτίτσα; Άντε μπράβο!
-Το ΄χεις με το πρώτο, αδερφάκι!

-Brother Stavraka, I'm getting in the mood! Why don't you switch to a
zeibekiko, so we can exercise a round? Come on!
- Immediate response, brother!

(I'd have thought the last sentence was more like "You got it right
from the start brother !" (right as in correct, not "from the
beginning", meaning you're playing it right my brother))

Ρε βλάμη, το ΄φαγες το μπουζούκι, το ΄φαγες.
Μπράβο! Όμορφα πράγματα!

Brother, you will rub your bouzouki down!
Bravo! Nice happening!

(Re brother, you've "eaten" the bouzouki, "eaten it" (literally -
you would have to translate that to a slang/colloquial term, to get
the gist as you did, I The way I speak/hear I'd have suggested
something like "You killed the bouzouki, killed it!" Meaning he
played it so well)

Γειά σου Σταύρακα, ποτέ να μην πεθάνεις!
Ώχου ρε Παναγία μου, ντάλα, τα ντουμάνια μας πήρανε βρε, ώχ...
Άρπα την!

Cheers to you, Stavraka, you may never die!
Oh, bless me, it's full, the smoke gets thicker!
Have one from me, too!

(In the 2nd line is he referring to themselves having gotten full, of
the smoke they smoked ?
(I'd have though the last line meant "grab it" (literally grab her)..
of course, he is talking about the arghile, so telling his 'brother'
to grab it to have his smoke, probably he got it ready especially for
him )

On Feb 22, 8:01 am, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wonderful translation!  Maybe, I'll forget about trying to find Lexiko
> Tis Piatsas and call on you whenever I need some koutsavakika.  I've
> gotta test Spiros with this, now that I know it's full of slang.  I'm
> so bad! *smile*
>

> On 2/21/08, AKRITAS <akrita...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ηey Niko! That's a very good translation...
>
> > One question: what does "range last" mean?
>
> > One observation: near the end, the syntax should be "may you never die"
>
> > Very good translation - I could never, ever do this one - too much slang!
>
> > Nice job!
>
> > Akritas
>

[Nikos A. Politis]

Mastouras, Botani (also Botano) is Herb in Greek. Generally, not a
specific herb.

Chris, I tried entering your Dr. Dark page but was not fortunate
enough to find Track 14 anywhere. Could you please guide me? (and
keep it uploaded until further notice?).

Don’t bother about colds, I take my homoeopathic pills and they seem
to work! Still, I must search for a specific preparate for
Intrainternet infections, but they tell me there is not any such.

Comments to the comments: (General remark: most of the
misunderstandings / false interpretations, questions and whatever, is
due to my incomplete knowledge of English, especially slang but also
plain English).

range last: Είσαι τέρτσος means “you come third in row” (italian
origin), in other words you are not first in row. Now, being third,
second or tenth, merely means you are not as high as me, who am the
first. That is why I chose the word “last”.

Of course, “may you never die” is the correct expression, not the
hypothetical expression I wrongly used.

When I chose to use “you must be in mood” I thought of a good mood,
high mood. I didn’t know mood in itself could mean a bad mood.

Διπλοπεννιά στην τρίχα vs. excellent playing: I chose the expression
because the music we listen to is not a diplopennia technique (primo /
secondo in double string mode) so what the compiler of the text had in
mind was to focus on the nice / expressive playing rather than on
double pickings, which do not occure in our case. The use of “mix” is
not familiar to me, so the ones more familiar with english slang could
use this expression. It’s a collective work, anyway.

Μάπα: The original meaning of the (slang) word is Head. The Manges
encoded it to also mean the narghile. But they changed the genre of
the word to masculine. So “ti mapa” should mean “the head”, not the
narghile which would be referred to as “to mapa”. Sorry, the time
machine has not yet been invented and I cannot ask the guys for
clarifications.

Το ΄χεις με το πρώτο, αδερφάκι! Actually “you get it from the first
demand, brother”. You don’t have to ask for it twice.

Το ΄φαγες το μπουζούκι: Any corrections / improvements from those
more familiar to English slang welcome.

Ώχου ρε Παναγία μου etc.: Yes, I think they refer to themselves
having lots of smoke around. But this “Άρπα την» really confused me:
It simply doesn’t fit: the expression, as I know it, is something like
“here is a strong, heavy hit from me to you in response to what you
have said / done. I can’t see any relevant case. And, don’t forget,
an arghile is never “she”.

[The_Walrus]

Niko, the track is in the files section of this site, not on my web
site.

On Feb 22, 9:40 pm, "Nikos A. Politis" <nika...@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
> Chris, I tried entering your Dr. Dark page but was not fortunate
> enough to find Track 14 anywhere.  Could you please guide me? (and
> keep it uploaded until further notice?).

Symantec antivirus should keep you safe from my cold!

[mastouras]

Geia sou Niko, We weren;t translating it I don;t think for
publsihing, but I wsa ipressed by the bits I didn;t know, I guiess I
couldn' keep my nose out of it :-)

thanks for the details, No I didn' pick up on the fact that the
arghile is never feminine and othr things you pointed out...

on another note, I rememgber being told by someone that the Zagoraios
(?) verson of "enas magkas sto Botaniko" (ente le magket.. that one),
was maggiko slang !?!

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[Tiffany D]

I've heard the same thing about that version. I have it, and to be
honest, it sounds more like a mixture of Greek and French. I've never
heard anything in rebetika like it, even in the really heavy stuff.

[mastouras]

I thought the person who told me was just naiive

On Feb 25, 10:18 am, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've heard the same thing about that version.  I have it, and to be
> honest, it sounds more like a mixture of Greek and French.  I've never
> heard anything in rebetika like it, even in the really heavy stuff.
>

[Nikos A. Politis]

Mastouras, Tiffany, the Zagoraios version of enas mangas is – plain-
rubbish. An attempt to create a personal slang, based on French
endings of words. Better forget it.

> ...
>
> read more »

[zorz bate]

THX a lot!!!!!!