Tsakismata

[Mene...@aol.com]

I am seeking the views of you, my colleagues, on an ethnomusicological topic
I am currently investigating. In surveying the many early recordings of Greek
urban and rural musics, I have noted, as I am sure many of you have, the
common inclusion of tsakismata or "interjections". Many are simple and common
tsakismata such as aman, more, kale as described by Sam Chianis in his monograph on
Folk Songs of Mantineia, Greece. But many recordings include more lengthy
spoken elements that aren't part of the performance of the song text. They may be
compliments praising a performer, or a suggestion like "have another ouzo" or
"have another puff". On occasion these interjections, if I may call them
such, may take the form of a spoken dialogue.

I would like to ask two questions: 1. Can we call all these "extralyrical"
interjections tsakismata, and, if not, what should we call them? 2. What is
their significance? What purpose(s) do they serve and/or what is their use and
function?

I would especially appreciate responses from Greek musicians
on this list. You may, of course, respond through this forum or to me
privately.

Thank you,


Michael G. Kaloyanides, Ph.D.
Coordinator of Music
University of New Haven
203.393.0310
mkaloy...@newhaven.edu
Mene...@aol.com





Michael G. Kaloyanides, Ph.D.
Coordinator of Music
University of New Haven
203.393.0310
mkaloy...@newhaven.edu
Mene...@aol.com



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[AKRITAS]

Many times the lead performers call out each other's names "Geia sou Marko, karouzo!"  or
"Geia sou re Marko me tis penies sou!"  which someone suggested was a way to "inform" the listener who was playing or singing on the recording....

 

I don't know how true that is....

[mastouras]

Out of pure ignorance I write this.... So dismiss it / correct it as
should be the case !

To me, someitmes tsakismata etc sound like people, who knew the
players, getting into the mood / kefi the song creates while
listening to the playing live...."yeah Marko, with your double pennia...
play rip that taksimi" while quietly nodding his / her head along (?)

In songs like "pente hronia dikasmenos" I think it's more obviously
part of the song....

[The_Walrus]

This is a subject I have asked about in the past. I think it would be
helpful if we knew whether these "shout-outs", or whatever they are
termed, were a common practise at live venues before the advent of
recording. And the only ways we can find out would be if there are
documented records of this, or somebody incredibly old to interview.

[bart....@telenet.be]

A similar kind of loud interjections or "shout-outs" is frequent in
flamenco to encourage the artists (singers, dancers and guitarists)
and is called jaleo (olé being the most famous one, of course).
Friends or relatives of the artists are often even brought in the
recording studios to cheer up the artists' performances. Also in live
settings, musicians often encourage one another loudly in the heat of
the moment, in the hope of invoking the "duende" (the spirit of
flamenco).

On 23 feb, 12:55, "The_Walrus" <christopher.blackm...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

[Nikos A. Politis]

At times before discography and even today it was and is very common
that during dance, singing etc. the performers themselves as well as
other participators to the fun would come up with exclamations like
the ones mentioned. This habit has been transplanted into the
discography too, since the sterile atmosphere of the studio (or of the
large hall of a luxury hotel before studios had been built) was not
the best environment for a singer or musician of this sort of genre.
I can think of course of the face expression of a professional
European sound engineer when facing this kind of behaviour but then I
can think that the locals would explain to him how things are or
should be.

There are numerous passages in greek litereature describing moments
like this but a mere round in greek Panygiria or entertainment sites
today would be enough.

More specifically, "interjections" like aman, more, kale and others
should be seen as tsakismata since in many cases they are necessary to
match the poetical verse to the existing melody. Moreover, there are
cases where a whole phrase may be used as a tsakisma, again taking
advantage of the music e.g. in the popular Constantinople song Kyr
Kostakis:

Emena me to eipane,
*Kyr Kostaki ela konda,
Pos tin kalyteri zoi
Tin kanoun oi bekrides
*papia, china mou, *na'chis to krima mou.

Enan kairo imoun aggelos,
*Kyr Kostaki ela konda,
Tora aggelizoun alloi,
*china, papia mou, *na'cheis ta pathia mou.

The asterisks are tsakismata, not actually belonging to the main text
body but totally integrated in the musical frame of the song.

In no way was an exclamation like Giassou Marko intended to be of help
to future researchers or even to the listener of the song, since it
originated off recording environment, in real life where everybody
knows who the performers are. There are also cases where the
performer praises himself (!) if noone else has volunteered to do so.
Typical is Giassou Rita of R. Abatzi and Giassou Kavoura of Giorgos
Kavouras.

The case of Pende chronia dikasmenos and other similar examples is
typical of the influence of the light musical theater (epitheorissi)
that was very popular at the time. In these cases tsakisma is not the
right word, we use Prosa part or something similar.

Please excuse my english!

Michael, if you use Skype we can talk analytically on the subject.
You can search for me under my email.

[azythos]

On Feb 23, 3:55 am, "The_Walrus"

We should start by making the difference between the shout-outs by the
crew and those by the audience.

The latter have always been there: Where the words or music are
inspiring, someone will let out exclamations like Oooof!, Aman,
Allah!, Pes to, pes to!, etc. etc. Occasionally also calling on a
player by name (and often throwing crockery and money, too, and
getting up to dance if they are drunk enough). Not only with rebetiko,
but also in the tradition of folk song both in Anatolia and Greece.
These can also come from the crew.

As for the obviously calculated interventions by the crew (proza)
where the artists are mentioned by name, it sure looks as if those
came after the start of the recording history: I don't remember having
heard them at lowly taverna performances in the late Fifties or
Sixties. Also they are not universal: If you listen to Pente chronia
dikasmenos by, say, Efstrathiou, you'll see they are all full in
mastoura or anyway only interested in enjoying themselves and just let
out an "oof!" when it gets heavy.

[Mr. Narghile]

FYI, it's not unique to greek recordings...american blues, hillbilly
and cajun music all use expressions equivalent to "Aman" as well as
trying to excite the performer, either for real or to simulate a live
performance.
Blues in particular is full of "work that thing", "that's what I'm
talkin about", etc.

[The_Walrus]

That would explain why my practice recordings are full of "oops" and
"duuh"...

[Tiffany D]

I wish that I could say something scholarly on the subject, but since
I'm still in the process of learning Greek, I can't. I will say that
as a listener, I love the tsakismata and always have. It makes the
music feel real, as if you're just listening to a bunch of friends,
which they were in many cases. Furthermore, as a blind person, it is
really special to me, since I can't see the pictures of the rebetes.
It allows me to hear them talking, if only for a short time. this is
why I love spoken interviews or bootlegged recordings of them, where
they were really able to be themselves. I personally find today's
Greek music lacking on many levels, but the tsakismata is one of the
things I miss the most when I listen to it. Just my thoughts.

Tiffanitsa

[Mene...@aol.com]

Thanks to all of you have responded to my questions about tsakismata with very thoughtful and informed answers. It is certainly apparent that one reason tsakismata appeared in the earliest recordings as they did in live performances of the era was the absence of a bright line distinguishing the aesthetics of studio performances from live performances. That is, studio recordings were mostly thought of as just a "record" of what a performance in an audience context would be like. I suspect as recording evolved, the tsakismata began to be created and used for reasons particular to the recording context and perhaps distinct from their role in live performance.

Niko, can you tell me more about light musical theater (Epitheorissi) and the Prosa? I am not familiar with this tradition. I don't use Skype but you can certainly contact me directly at Mene...@aol.com.

I agree, Tiffanitsa, that the tsakismata are little gems embedded in the rebetika and nourish the soulfullness of the recordings and the tradition.

Certainly, I would love more comments, insights, and speculations about the tsakismata in the older recordings.

Michael

[Nikos A. Politis]

Michael, thank you for the nice words. I fully agree to your
interpretations. regarding light theater, you will certainly have
noticed my contribution in another topic.

[zorz bate]

the musicians are not forgotten when they are called on the songs

On 24 Feb., 03:48, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wish that I could say something scholarly on the subject, but since
> I'm still in the process of learning Greek, I can't. I will say that
> as a listener, I love the tsakismata and always have. It makes the
> music feel real, as if you're just listening to a bunch of friends,
> which they were in many cases. Furthermore, as a blind person, it is
> really special to me, since I can't see the pictures of the rebetes.
> It allows me to hear them talking, if only for a short time. this is
> why I love spoken interviews or bootlegged recordings of them, where
> they were really able to be themselves. I personally find today's
> Greek music lacking on many levels, but the tsakismata is one of the
> things I miss the most when I listen to it. Just my thoughts.
>
> Tiffanitsa
>

[Joe Graziosi]

One of my all time favorite exclamations is by Roza Eskenazi. On a
Standard Colonial 78 RPM (USA produced) she shouts out in Greeklish :
"Na zisi i evening". It is not unusual either to hear the voice of a
well known singer shouting out an exclamation even though he/she is
not being recorded at the time, indicating that recording sessions
were alot more loose and sociable than these days.

On Feb 23, 9:48 pm, "Tiffany D" <tiffani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wish that I could say something scholarly on the subject, but since
> I'm still in the process of learning Greek, I can't. I will say that
> as a listener, I love the tsakismata and always have. It makes the
> music feel real, as if you're just listening to a bunch of friends,
> which they were in many cases. Furthermore, as a blind person, it is
> really special to me, since I can't see the pictures of the rebetes.
> It allows me to hear them talking, if only for a short time. this is
> why I love spoken interviews or bootlegged recordings of them, where
> they were really able to be themselves. I personally find today's
> Greek music lacking on many levels, but the tsakismata is one of the
> things I miss the most when I listen to it. Just my thoughts.
>
> Tiffanitsa
>

> On 2/23/07, The_Walrus <christopher.blackm...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > That would explain why my practice recordings are full of "oops" and
> > "duuh"...
>
> > On Feb 23, 8:33 pm, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > FYI, it's not unique to greek recordings...american blues, hillbilly
> > > and cajun music all use expressions equivalent to "Aman" as well as
> > > trying to excite the performer, either for real or to simulate a live
> > > performance.
> > > Blues in particular is full of "work that thing", "that's what I'm

> > > talkin about", etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Fabian Philippoussis]

Hello Joe, how are your knees holding up? If you still speak with John Lulias tell him I say hello....Ciao, Fabian

 

[Mene...@aol.com]

Cousin Joe Graziosi, could you tell me what Roza song you were referring to and if it is currently available? Also, please email me your email address so we can converse off list.

Cousin Michael
Mene...@aol.com