Douzenia

[Odysseas]

Hey, I'm trying to learn the different tuning schemes for my
trichordo...
Anybody know where I could find a list of the Douzenia?
Dromoi are all there thanks to Chris Blackmore (seriously, thank
you)...
But if anybody knows anything else, I'd be greatly appreciative for
the help.

Also, do you guys know if you are supposed to tune down or up to
Anikta?


thanks
Odysseas

[The_Walrus]

Thanks for the thanks!

It's ages since I did any real updates with new information on my web
site, and something about douzenia would be good. If I knew enough to
write it, it would be even better.

Nikos Politis and o Tambouras know about them, and probably other
people do as well.

[Peter S.]

http://home.comcast.net/~lisakritikos/index1.html

 

Hello Odysseas, the above link is a good site that has a list of the most common douzenia, including arabien, karadouzeni, and anikta, douzenia.  I too like the douzenia so I hope this is a help for you as well.  There was another site with great information on the dromoi for bouzoukia, and makami with all of their notes in the turkish system, (I suppose for if you have an oud or saz violin etc. perhaps).  I dont remember the name but Walrus had a link for it on his site.  I think it was trichordo, this site is down for the time being though.  Sadly I fear permanently. 

 

P.S. The part on the dromoi is under the section of the site titled "History"

 

Best Regards

 

Peter

 

 

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Peter Semmes-Hansen

[Peter S.]

Hello again!

 

The douzeni and dromoi section is under (as it should be) the music section! I am not sure why I even though about the dromoi and the history section

 

Hope this helps!

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Peter Semmes-Hansen

[Nikos A. Politis]

I have no practical experience with different douzenia. What's more,
unfortunately all these things are all but standardized and this
confuses things a lot. No doubt it is an extremely interesting
subject, but it will take lots of time to experiment and start sorting
things out. Odysseas, if you are fluent with Greek you can start by
looking into the Klika magazine (www.klika.gr) where one or two
interesting articles can be found.

[Mr. Narghile]

it's interesting to note that there are very few bouzouki recordings
in these other tunings. If you haven't already checked out the
recordings of Manolis Karapiperis if you haven't already. I believe
there are four, maybe they can all be heard on youtube or cd, I don't
have that info in front of me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06f-i7Cufo


I heard an excellent talk and demonstration on Karapiperis at the
Hydra conference in 2008!

dave

[Odysseas]

You guys are fantastic... Thank you.
All this is very helpful.

The Karapiperis song... Is that in a different douzeni?
It's fantastic either way...

You know what got me thinking about playing in different douzenia?
It was that little clip of Vamvakaris talking about playing in
Syrianno/Anikta that I posted a while back.
I started playing it and realized it sounded odd in evropaiko
douzeni.. DAD..
So I got to thinking about it and realized I not only (of course)
didn't know any other douzenia..
But I had no idea where to find them.

Anyway, thank you guys again. Everybody here is always so helpful.
It's a wonderful resource to have.

later
o

On Jul 15, 12:03 am, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> it's interesting to note that there are very few bouzouki recordings
> in these other tunings. If you haven't already checked out the
> recordings of Manolis Karapiperis if you haven't already. I believe
> there are four, maybe they can all be heard on youtube or cd, I don't

> have that info in front of me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06f-i7Cufo

[Odysseas]

Hmmm... So, I was reading up on Karapiperis..
Did you know he recorded the first song with bouzouki as the primary
instrument along with Giannis Ioannidis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqtNdqVCPqI
Toutoi oi mpatsoi pou rthan twra
I know this song because it was the first one I learned to play...
But I never new karapiperis was involved.. Very cool.
Interesting guy.
The two songs of his own that I found were great.
s

On Jul 15, 12:03 am, "Mr. Narghile" <squirrellyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> it's interesting to note that there are very few bouzouki recordings
> in these other tunings. If you haven't already checked out the
> recordings of Manolis Karapiperis if you haven't already. I believe
> there are four, maybe they can all be heard on youtube or cd, I don't

> have that info in front of me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06f-i7Cufo

[Peter S.]

Yeah I had heard that his were the first.  I have his two other songs he did on my ipod, very cool songs as well, a lot different in a way from later recordings.  I am not sure what tuning 2 of his songs are though.

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Peter Semmes-Hansen

[Odysseas]

I was actually wondering that myself.
From matching the notes on my bouzouki, I'm pretty sure the one he did
with Ioannides was in standard evropaiko DAD...
But that other one that Dave posted sounds like it is definitely not
in DAD.

Another one I always wondered about was Markos song Karadouzeni...
Seems like it should be in karadouzeni... But it doesn't particularly
sound like it.

Anyway.

later
O

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> > .

[Mr. Narghile]

The Markos tune Karadouzeni, along with his Arap, are both in standard
DAD tuning, but you'll notice that the pitch is raised to FCF or so. I
assume he was playing an instrument with a shorter neck on these, and
a few others that sound like F from his first recording sessions.
d

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[Peter S.]

Geia sas pali philoi,

 

@Odysseas

 

Oops, I forgot which song he did with ionnidis, is that touti batsi? Because that one was definetetly evropaikos (I played along with it on utube after you brought up this thread.

 

  I love his other song in ousak, dont know the title the words go some like "ach rixe ta malia sou piso..." or something like that.  I think that in an a different tuning.

 

@Mr. Nargile

 

I at first thought Karadouzeni and Arap were in a different tuning, but then I played the song higher and the sound matched that of the audio on utube I found it was dad, both Arap and Karadouzini are two of my favorite Markos songs, especially Arap. (btw what does Arap mean?) also, isnt the song o sinachis in markos' version raised? I had to play a fret or two higher to sound right when I tried that song.

 

I did not know bouzoukis came in different leck lengths, I just assumed that the different "keys" used in many of the old songs were just for variety of sound.

 

p.s isnt the only difference in karadouzeni from evropaikos that the octave pair is tuned to g instead of d?  

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Peter Semmes-Hansen

[Mr. Narghile]

Some of MV's earliest are tuned up to F, Efoumernam' Ena Vradi for
instance. Others throughout the 30s are tuned a bit high or low. Not
many electronic tuners hanging around the taverna.
Do bouzoukia come in different neck lengths? Of course. there was no
standard in the old days, even in the 30s. I'm sure you've seen a
Tzoura, this has a shorter neck than the average bouzouki and MV may
have been playing something like that.
Last year I put together a blog about old bouzoukia and included the
neck lengths and other measurements of as many bouzoukia as I could
find:
http://oldbouzoukia.wordpress.com/

some as short as 630mm from the nut to the bridge.

Arap and Arapien I believe mean Arab/Arabian.

I'm really not sure about the other tunings, the info is scant, to say
the least. Still, putting the low strings at G instead of D would make
a huge difference.
dave

[Peter S.]

"Not many electronic tuners hanging around the taverna." Lol, good point, I suppose they usually used tuning forks (don't we have it easy these days).  Personally, Instead of retuning my instrument I have just changed my position on the neck for those songs, although I suppose I could just play the songs in D, but I usually like to imitate the sound of what I hear.  Also, thanks for answering my question about the name Arap.

 

I have seen tzouras, actually tried to buy one on ebay this winter, but I have decided to upgrade my bouzouki instead.  I will take a look at your blog now!

 

 

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Peter Semmes-Hansen

[Kriko]

If you don't retune or play at a different pitch from the original,
you can't play the open strings then...

[Peter S.]

True, but often I play a selected group of songs on youtube while sitting in front of my computer, so just to get the basic notes down I dont bother changing the tuning. 

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Kriko <ph...@voila.fr> wrote:

If you don't retune or play at a different pitch from the original,
you can't play the open strings then...

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Peter Semmes-Hansen

[Odysseas]

Oh hey, I found this:
www.museumofworldmusic.com/saz.html

Are the douzenia in this the same?

[Mr. Narghile]

check out the recent publication "from Tambouras to Bouzouki", a book with a cd that covers the various tunings and lists many of them (although I found the info to be presented in a confusing manner).

[Odysseas]

Cool! I'll definitely check that out. Thanks for the tip!