Burying wires

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Gavin

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Jul 26, 2021, 9:46:59 AMJul 26
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I am looking at running power and wired networking to the very top of my garden. Unfortunately there is no fence to clip it to for the final 20m so I am looking at it being on, or ideally in, the ground. 

I do not want to fit the cables until the building is ready to receive them so I am considering investing some time this summer laying a conduit that the cables can be fed through later. If it was brightly coloured it would have the advantage of acting as a visual deterrent to someone putting a spade through it (though the electricity cable will be SWA protected anyway)

So what I am after is advice on where to source  some. In terms of spec, I’d like it to be:
- approx 50mm internal diameter 
- 20-30m long
- brightly coloured 
- smooth lined to aid threading of wires through later
- strong enough to not collapse under weight of 12” soil
- cheap!

I often see reels of fat yellow hose on building sites but don’t know what it is used for (or how expensive it is)

Gavin


Nigel Worsley

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Jul 26, 2021, 10:03:09 AMJul 26
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> I often see reels of fat yellow hose on building sites but don’t know what it is used for (or how expensive it is)

Probably gas pipe, and fairly expensive - at least £5 a metre, I think.

You can get SWA Cat5E if you want to go really OTT!

Nigle

Mr.G

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Jul 26, 2021, 10:03:29 AMJul 26
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I used soil pipe buried about a foot down and some angles to bring it to the surface

Kind regards

Mr.G
Gerald


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Andy Noyes

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Jul 26, 2021, 10:16:03 AMJul 26
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The yellow stuff is MDPE gas pipe, available in a range of diameters, quite cheap up to 32mm, gets more expensive and harder to find in short lengths over that size. Note that it's specified by OD, the ID of the 32mm pipe is about 25mm. You can also get it in blue for water pipe, similar sizes.

Ian Petrie

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Jul 26, 2021, 10:43:58 AMJul 26
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This is the optimum - with enough dia for additional cables

However
I have some black and green rainwater 25mm OD pipe which will probably serve going spare. There is enough.

Add this for local colour


Ian

pipe.jpg

Hugo Mills

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Jul 26, 2021, 10:48:49 AMJul 26
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Purely out of academic interest -- how do you get the cables along
the pipe once it's laid?

Hugo.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 03:43:41PM +0100, Ian Petrie wrote:
> This is the optimum - with enough dia for additional cables
> https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/FXKVR50.html
>
> However
> I have some black and green rainwater 25mm OD pipe which will probably
> serve going spare. There is enough.
>
> Add this for local colour
> https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WT33BY.html
>
>
> Ian
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 2:47 PM Gavin <gavi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am looking at running power and wired networking to the very top of my
> > garden. Unfortunately there is no fence to clip it to for the final 20m so
> > I am looking at it being on, or ideally *in*, the ground.
> >
> > I do not want to fit the cables until the building is ready to receive
> > them so I am considering investing some time this summer laying a conduit
> > that the cables can be fed through later. If it was brightly coloured it
> > would have the advantage of acting as a visual deterrent to someone putting
> > a spade through it (though the electricity cable will be SWA protected
> > anyway)
> >
> > So what I am after is advice on where to source some. In terms of spec,
> > I’d like it to be:
> > - approx 50mm internal diameter
> > - 20-30m long
> > - brightly coloured
> > - smooth lined to aid threading of wires through later
> > - strong enough to not collapse under weight of 12” soil
> > - cheap!
> >
> > I often see reels of fat yellow hose on building sites but don’t know what
> > it is used for (or how expensive it is)
> >
> > Gavin
> >
> >

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Ian Petrie

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Jul 26, 2021, 10:50:24 AMJul 26
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I used a similar pipe to run power to my shed. About the same sort of distance.
To get the leader through I ied a blob of rag to the end of a fishing line - then popped a vacuum cleaner on the far end. It came through a treat.

Ian

Gavin

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Jul 26, 2021, 11:03:20 AMJul 26
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Ha! I was wondering how to do that bit!

Alex Gibson

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Jul 26, 2021, 11:08:07 AMJul 26
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Genius, Ian!

 

Even easier is to lay a ‘pull wire’ inside the pipe as you’re laying it.  This can be anything you don’t expect to decay away.  You can then hook your cables to it and pull through – ideally with another length for future upgrades.

 

50mm is a good plan by the way Gavin – I just about managed with 25mm pipe, but fibre optic network cables often come with chunky pre-terminated plugs much bigger than the actual cable, and very hard to DIY ‘crimp’. 

 

Strongly recommend fibre networking to your shed – the cable is slightly more expensive, but the Ethernet converters surprisingly cheap, and they remove a fire risk from high voltages being induced in a long stretch of network cable outdoors.

 

Alex Gibson

 

+44 7813 810 765    @alexgibson3d    37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR

 

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Bob Dunlop

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Jul 26, 2021, 11:09:39 AMJul 26
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Hi,

On Mon, Jul 26 at 03:48, Hugo Mills wrote:
> Purely out of academic interest -- how do you get the cables along
> the pipe once it's laid?

Using the pull through you installed when the pipe was being laid.
15 years ago for the 40m length for my garden office this involved
the builders lad jiggling a nut on the end of a piece of string
lifting and shaking each section of pipe in turn, took about 20
minutes.

Of course each bundle you pull through should include a new pull
through for the next time you need one.

I also have a coil of steel tape for pushing through cables, about
20m if memory serves, probably rusty as hell wherever it is.

Cable companies simply blast fibers along pipes with a small poly
bead on the end and compressed air. Presumably they could blast a
fishing line pull through in the same way.

Could probably improvise something similar with a vacumm cleaner
or compressor and a polystyrene beed.

--
Bob Dunlop

Ian Petrie

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Jul 26, 2021, 11:54:55 AMJul 26
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There is possibly enough to do two runs. One for power, one for network.

Ian

Alex Gibson

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Jul 26, 2021, 12:16:56 PMJul 26
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I’m not an expert but as I understand it, that’s another good reason to go for fibre network – it can go in the same conduit as mains cable, whereas copper wire should not under wiring code. 

 

Unfortunately, I’d already run my mains cable in a (pvc welded) conduit before I came to add the networking – I’d originally planned to use copper - so I ended up using a second 25mm conduit – but at least I could put 4 fibres down it which has helped set up a separate IoS network.

 

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Tom Allen

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Jul 26, 2021, 1:12:20 PMJul 26
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You can run network and mains in the same conduit on a single property. They are normally seperated for ease of maintenance not for legal reasons. 

Buried cables should be marked by the colour code of the conduit, in case of mixed conduit the marking should be that of the higher risk cable, eg electricity for a conduit carrying data and power. It is actually against spec to put power down a blue pipe (which is water) unless you wrap it in a warning tape for power. But as 90% of domestic workshops are run down whatever the builder had laying around... I really wouldn't worry about it.



I've just put 4x gig ethernet and 63A SWA 50m to a workshop down a black 50mm conduit without issue using the hoover and carrier bag method with string. Added electric warning tape buried just above. Working fine, no noise issues on the ether. Copper ethernet protocol was specifically designed not to be effected by mains as it's run side by side all the time. 50mm conduit came from amazon. I can get a link if you need it. 




Gavin

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Jul 26, 2021, 4:17:19 PMJul 26
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Thanks all - great advice as always

@Andy - thanks. Yes, that’s the stuff, and yes, certainly is expensive at higher diameters!
@Alex - yes, I am thinking fibre. I hadn’t considered the issue with running ethernet wire in the same pipe, but rather because I figured it was a job I only wanted to once :)
@Ian - thanks for the offer, I think I am going for 50mm for future proofing / ease of getting SWA’d mains cable and fibre terminations down the pipe, and trick with rag and hoover noted!

So that’s the easy bit sorted, now I have to dig the trench!
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