Ground Zero
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JM
May 21, 2010, 7:31:30 PM5/21/10
to Reader's Round Table
In another Usenet group this morning, I came upon this . . .
> Is a giant mosque at Ground Zero justified?
> By SHMULEY BOTEACH
>
> The issues at stake affect the very heart of
> American democracy. On the one hand it would be
> the height of insensitivity, not to say an
> outright provocation, for the Islamic community to
> build a giant Islamic shrine at the resting place
> of 3,000 innocent Americans who were murdered by
> Islamic terrorists. On the other hand, America is
> a tolerant country that allows for the free
> worship of all its citizens and one bridles
> against the idea of preventing any mosque from
> being built.
<snip>
> I repeat:
>
> If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
In other words, building this mosque at Ground Zero is tantamount to
erecting over the graves of Sharon Tate, Wojciech Frykowski and
Abigail Folger, an equestrian statue of Charlie Manson, or say, Sadie
Mae Glutz, brandishing a butcher knife, and mounted on the rearing
back of Rosemary LaBianca.
There are a few of us who know that, but the city planners in NYC, and
a majority of people, don't. Again, observe these words . . .
> If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
Yes, but you must read the Qur'an totally to know 'what is.' If some
people find the writings of the Talmud and the Holy Bible a heavily
taxing read, they should pick up a copy of the Qur'an sometime. If the
dull, dead weight of what's inside were the actual weight of the book,
you couldn't pick it up with a forklift. Who reads it? Not even most
Muslims. But those few of us who have tackled the terribly onerous
task, having taken the trouble to actually read the bloody thing cover
to cover, okay, those who have gone through the ordeal can only come
out of that tremendously depressing experience in total accord with
this opinion . . .
> If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
Beside the Koran, I would place two other books as being, let us say,
the "Axis of Evil" when it comes to the Three Pillars of Tyranny in
this world:
1. The Communist Manifesto
2. Mein Kampf
3. The Holy Qur'an
And not necessarily in that order, or really NOT in that order, but
the exact reverse.
There are in the United States, laws on the books that make it a
federal offense, no less than sedition (nor more than treason), to
advocate violent overthrow of the government. But does the Koran do
that? Read it. Don't take my word for it. Plug your nose and read it!
Yes, yes, and again, yes. Over and over again, the directly stated
aims of Islam are to take the entire world by force. Nowhere in the
pages of Talmud, Torah or the New Testament can such advocacy be
found. Nowhere! Not by force, not by violence, "Not by might, nor by
power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord." Zechariah 4:6
Although a book, all by itself cannot physically attempt any such act,
persons holding to those books can, and often do, as they set forth to
make the aims, plans and agendas of those three books active and
real. You can't set a copy of Mein Kampf on the hot-seat, pull the
switch and expect any good to arise for the security of a democracy in
that way. No, but set that book on the lap of the condemned Jihadi,
Nazi or Commie convicted of the crime of actively advocating the
violent dictates from those pages; fry, cook, bake the two together as
a soufflé, and something has been served to the good of liberty and
democracy.
But the city planners at NYC and most other people do not know that by
permitting, and therefore advocating for the Ground Zero Super Mosque
plan to proceed, they are complicit not only in sedition with the
violent advocacy of Islam, but in treason as the physical, furthering
agents of it, even making themselves complicit in the acts of the bin
Laden sky-bombers of 9/11--by permitting that this monument to it be
erected. How? But how, do you ask? It should be known without
speaking, understood from the Ground Zero of any man's soul. But since
it isn't . . .
Most people simply do not understand that all Muslims who blithely
dedicate their lives to the teachings of the Koran, and who worship
the author of those teachings, are, if even unwittingly so, in
conspiracy and fully complicit with those who are fully in knowledge
of what is advocated by the Koran; those who do act violently
according to plan. But how can one man be guilty of the acts of
another, as an unwitting conspirator? Because of the law, the dictum
of jurisprudence that states, "Ignorance is no excuse."
A democracy depends for its very existence upon an end to ignorance in
a well informed public, a citizenry that is not ignorant of its rights
and duties with respect to maintaining that democracy in good stead.
In this day, as we are at WAR all around the world with the kind of
people who are NOT ignorant of the Koran and of its content for a
violent jihad against all the non-Muslim world; in this day IGNORANCE
IS NO EXCUSE for anyone, whether Muslim or Infidel. To remain
oblivious of what is written upon the pages of the book which inspires
such hatred, bigotry and violence in the hearts of those who in that
knowledge, go forth to prosecute its bloody aims over the earth--is
without excuse.
IN THIS DAY, the Holy Qur'an should be REQUIRED READING in every high
school and university, in classes that are open to full, unbridled
discussion of what is to be found on those pages. IF this were being
done, a great many Muslims presently residing in the free world, would
stop being Muslims; they would desert Islam for the house-a-fire that
it is. And those who are the Infidels described in that book,
particularly a majority of Americans, we would understand why,
according to the letter of the law it is illegal, even downright
unconstitutional to build that mosque at Ground Zero, same as it is a
crime of sedition to allow any mosque anywhere in the United States to
stand, with its doors open in continued violent violation of the laws,
statutes and Constitution of the United States of America--if not the
statutes of the Alien and Sedition Acts, then the Civil Rights Act of
1964 barring all forms of segregation, whether by race or gender.
Oh yes, indeed. As every mosque continues its practice of segregated
worship for men and women; that dirty, smelly little hole of bigotry,
prejudice and discrimination is in contravention to all the highest
institutions of this nation! Oh, but then will you say, what about
Holiness Christians and Hasidic Jews who practice the same form of
segregation? One difference: when Christians and Jews are forced by
law to stop the practice in their places of worship, just as Mormons
were forced to suffer for their crimes of bigamy and polygamy, they
shall be brought to full compliance with the laws and statutes of the
United States.
Not so the mosques of Islam, with their manifesto of violent overthrow
for every government but their own. And with that still standing on
their books, namely, their "holy" Koran; there is the cornerstone, and
at once, the whole citadel and sanctuary of their so-called
"religion". They are, in the mainstream, as is obvious by their
flaming desire to build that Super Mosque, where it shall overshadow
the graves of our dead, not loyal citizens to these United States of
America, but the heartless advocates of an alien ideology which is at
its foundation dedicated in hatred against all that we hold sacred and
dear.
Alien they are to the sensibilities of all who grieve for the dead, so
proud as they are to be Islam, to be Muslim and to say by the building
of that mosque, "We had nothing to do with it." Truly? But if this
were so, wouldn't they have the sensibility to say, "But some of those
who pray from the same book as we, did, and knowing that this was done
in the name of Islam, truly we should step back from that ground which
they hallow, and let them have their grave, that it may BE their
grave, their monument and not our boast."
But they cannot do that, you see. And the reason for it, though it may
be quite obvious to some, will not be so for others who have not read
their "holy" Qur'an. Not that I would wish such an ordeal upon anyone.
--
Shmendrik
> Is a giant mosque at Ground Zero justified?
> By SHMULEY BOTEACH
>
> The issues at stake affect the very heart of
> American democracy. On the one hand it would be
> the height of insensitivity, not to say an
> outright provocation, for the Islamic community to
> build a giant Islamic shrine at the resting place
> of 3,000 innocent Americans who were murdered by
> Islamic terrorists. On the other hand, America is
> a tolerant country that allows for the free
> worship of all its citizens and one bridles
> against the idea of preventing any mosque from
> being built.
<snip>
> I repeat:
>
> If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
In other words, building this mosque at Ground Zero is tantamount to
erecting over the graves of Sharon Tate, Wojciech Frykowski and
Abigail Folger, an equestrian statue of Charlie Manson, or say, Sadie
Mae Glutz, brandishing a butcher knife, and mounted on the rearing
back of Rosemary LaBianca.
There are a few of us who know that, but the city planners in NYC, and
a majority of people, don't. Again, observe these words . . .
> If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
Yes, but you must read the Qur'an totally to know 'what is.' If some
people find the writings of the Talmud and the Holy Bible a heavily
taxing read, they should pick up a copy of the Qur'an sometime. If the
dull, dead weight of what's inside were the actual weight of the book,
you couldn't pick it up with a forklift. Who reads it? Not even most
Muslims. But those few of us who have tackled the terribly onerous
task, having taken the trouble to actually read the bloody thing cover
to cover, okay, those who have gone through the ordeal can only come
out of that tremendously depressing experience in total accord with
this opinion . . .
> If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
Beside the Koran, I would place two other books as being, let us say,
the "Axis of Evil" when it comes to the Three Pillars of Tyranny in
this world:
1. The Communist Manifesto
2. Mein Kampf
3. The Holy Qur'an
And not necessarily in that order, or really NOT in that order, but
the exact reverse.
There are in the United States, laws on the books that make it a
federal offense, no less than sedition (nor more than treason), to
advocate violent overthrow of the government. But does the Koran do
that? Read it. Don't take my word for it. Plug your nose and read it!
Yes, yes, and again, yes. Over and over again, the directly stated
aims of Islam are to take the entire world by force. Nowhere in the
pages of Talmud, Torah or the New Testament can such advocacy be
found. Nowhere! Not by force, not by violence, "Not by might, nor by
power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord." Zechariah 4:6
Although a book, all by itself cannot physically attempt any such act,
persons holding to those books can, and often do, as they set forth to
make the aims, plans and agendas of those three books active and
real. You can't set a copy of Mein Kampf on the hot-seat, pull the
switch and expect any good to arise for the security of a democracy in
that way. No, but set that book on the lap of the condemned Jihadi,
Nazi or Commie convicted of the crime of actively advocating the
violent dictates from those pages; fry, cook, bake the two together as
a soufflé, and something has been served to the good of liberty and
democracy.
But the city planners at NYC and most other people do not know that by
permitting, and therefore advocating for the Ground Zero Super Mosque
plan to proceed, they are complicit not only in sedition with the
violent advocacy of Islam, but in treason as the physical, furthering
agents of it, even making themselves complicit in the acts of the bin
Laden sky-bombers of 9/11--by permitting that this monument to it be
erected. How? But how, do you ask? It should be known without
speaking, understood from the Ground Zero of any man's soul. But since
it isn't . . .
Most people simply do not understand that all Muslims who blithely
dedicate their lives to the teachings of the Koran, and who worship
the author of those teachings, are, if even unwittingly so, in
conspiracy and fully complicit with those who are fully in knowledge
of what is advocated by the Koran; those who do act violently
according to plan. But how can one man be guilty of the acts of
another, as an unwitting conspirator? Because of the law, the dictum
of jurisprudence that states, "Ignorance is no excuse."
A democracy depends for its very existence upon an end to ignorance in
a well informed public, a citizenry that is not ignorant of its rights
and duties with respect to maintaining that democracy in good stead.
In this day, as we are at WAR all around the world with the kind of
people who are NOT ignorant of the Koran and of its content for a
violent jihad against all the non-Muslim world; in this day IGNORANCE
IS NO EXCUSE for anyone, whether Muslim or Infidel. To remain
oblivious of what is written upon the pages of the book which inspires
such hatred, bigotry and violence in the hearts of those who in that
knowledge, go forth to prosecute its bloody aims over the earth--is
without excuse.
IN THIS DAY, the Holy Qur'an should be REQUIRED READING in every high
school and university, in classes that are open to full, unbridled
discussion of what is to be found on those pages. IF this were being
done, a great many Muslims presently residing in the free world, would
stop being Muslims; they would desert Islam for the house-a-fire that
it is. And those who are the Infidels described in that book,
particularly a majority of Americans, we would understand why,
according to the letter of the law it is illegal, even downright
unconstitutional to build that mosque at Ground Zero, same as it is a
crime of sedition to allow any mosque anywhere in the United States to
stand, with its doors open in continued violent violation of the laws,
statutes and Constitution of the United States of America--if not the
statutes of the Alien and Sedition Acts, then the Civil Rights Act of
1964 barring all forms of segregation, whether by race or gender.
Oh yes, indeed. As every mosque continues its practice of segregated
worship for men and women; that dirty, smelly little hole of bigotry,
prejudice and discrimination is in contravention to all the highest
institutions of this nation! Oh, but then will you say, what about
Holiness Christians and Hasidic Jews who practice the same form of
segregation? One difference: when Christians and Jews are forced by
law to stop the practice in their places of worship, just as Mormons
were forced to suffer for their crimes of bigamy and polygamy, they
shall be brought to full compliance with the laws and statutes of the
United States.
Not so the mosques of Islam, with their manifesto of violent overthrow
for every government but their own. And with that still standing on
their books, namely, their "holy" Koran; there is the cornerstone, and
at once, the whole citadel and sanctuary of their so-called
"religion". They are, in the mainstream, as is obvious by their
flaming desire to build that Super Mosque, where it shall overshadow
the graves of our dead, not loyal citizens to these United States of
America, but the heartless advocates of an alien ideology which is at
its foundation dedicated in hatred against all that we hold sacred and
dear.
Alien they are to the sensibilities of all who grieve for the dead, so
proud as they are to be Islam, to be Muslim and to say by the building
of that mosque, "We had nothing to do with it." Truly? But if this
were so, wouldn't they have the sensibility to say, "But some of those
who pray from the same book as we, did, and knowing that this was done
in the name of Islam, truly we should step back from that ground which
they hallow, and let them have their grave, that it may BE their
grave, their monument and not our boast."
But they cannot do that, you see. And the reason for it, though it may
be quite obvious to some, will not be so for others who have not read
their "holy" Qur'an. Not that I would wish such an ordeal upon anyone.
--
Shmendrik
Fattuchus
May 23, 2010, 12:43:59 AM5/23/10
to Reader's Round Table
On May 21, 7:31 pm, JM <jpd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In another Usenet group this morning, I came upon this . . .
>
> > Is a giant mosque at Ground Zero justified?
> > By SHMULEY BOTEACH
>
> > The issues at stake affect the very heart of
> > American democracy. On the one hand it would be
> > the height of insensitivity, not to say an
> > outright provocation, for the Islamic community to
> > build a giant Islamic shrine at the resting place
> > of 3,000 innocent Americans who were murdered by
> > Islamic terrorists. On the other hand, America is
> > a tolerant country that allows for the free
> > worship of all its citizens and one bridles
> > against the idea of preventing any mosque from
> > being built.
>
> <snip>
>
> > I repeat:
>
> > If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> > ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
I would not say Islam is the GREATEST curse and tragedy . . . just one
of the greatest, along with WW II, the Black Plague, etc.
JM
May 23, 2010, 1:36:45 AM5/23/10
to Reader's Round Table
On May 22, 11:43 pm, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 7:31 pm, JM <jpd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In another Usenet group this morning, I came upon this . . .
>
> > > Is a giant mosque at Ground Zero justified?
> > > By SHMULEY BOTEACH
>
> > > The issues at stake affect the very heart of
> > > American democracy. On the one hand it would be
> > > the height of insensitivity, not to say an
> > > outright provocation, for the Islamic community to
> > > build a giant Islamic shrine at the resting place
> > > of 3,000 innocent Americans who were murdered by
> > > Islamic terrorists. On the other hand, America is
> > > a tolerant country that allows for the free
> > > worship of all its citizens and one bridles
> > > against the idea of preventing any mosque from
> > > being built.
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > I repeat:
>
> > > If Islam is not the greatest curse and tragedy
> > > ever inflicted on mankind, I don't know what is.
>
> Thanks for inviting me to join. Great idea.
>
> I would not say Islam is the GREATEST curse and tragedy . . . just one
> of the greatest, along with WW II, the Black Plague, etc.
My man. :-)
--
JM
Fattuchus
May 31, 2010, 3:38:09 AM5/31/10
to Reader's Round Table
> In another Usenet group this morning, I came upon this . . .
>
> > Is a giant mosque at Ground Zero justified?
> > By SHMULEY BOTEACH
>
> > The issues at stake affect the very heart of
> > American democracy. On the one hand it would be
> > the height of insensitivity, not to say an
> > outright provocation, for the Islamic community to
> > build a giant Islamic shrine at the resting place
> > of 3,000 innocent Americans who were murdered by
> > Islamic terrorists. On the other hand, America is
> > a tolerant country that allows for the free
> > worship of all its citizens and one bridles
> > against the idea of preventing any mosque from
> > being built.
>
> <snip>
"One bridles against the idea of preventing any mosque from being
>
> > Is a giant mosque at Ground Zero justified?
> > By SHMULEY BOTEACH
>
> > The issues at stake affect the very heart of
> > American democracy. On the one hand it would be
> > the height of insensitivity, not to say an
> > outright provocation, for the Islamic community to
> > build a giant Islamic shrine at the resting place
> > of 3,000 innocent Americans who were murdered by
> > Islamic terrorists. On the other hand, America is
> > a tolerant country that allows for the free
> > worship of all its citizens and one bridles
> > against the idea of preventing any mosque from
> > being built.
>
> <snip>
built"??? I don't bridle against it. Why should Americans be upset
by the notion that building a mosque is forbidden? Doesn't Islam do
this almost everyday . . . . destroying the symbols of other
religions? Placing severe restrictions on other houses of worship?
JM
May 31, 2010, 5:04:51 PM5/31/10
to Reader's Round Table
On May 31, 2:38 am, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "One bridles against the idea of preventing any mosque from being
> built"??? I don't bridle against it. Why should Americans be upset
> by the notion that building a mosque is forbidden? Doesn't Islam do
> this almost everyday . . . . destroying the symbols of other
> religions? Placing severe restrictions on other houses of worship?
politics of Islam cannot be reconciled with an American way of life.
In the case of veils and burkhas, it's as if we were being expected to
turn a blind eye to the spectacle of an Afro-American slave being
paraded through the street with a chained collar about his neck. Our
laws and constitution as they now stand will not permit for it, nor
for any practice of segregated worship as they have it in the mosque.
People are not allowed in this country to enter voluntarily into a
condition of slavery. We are not allowed that "freedom". We are not
allowed it because here we are free only to be free.
Above all, the most central doctrines of Islam as found in the Qur'an
are explicit in a demand that all the world must, by force of
threatened violence, be brought into submission to Muslim power. We
have laws against sedition, i.e. against any active advocacy of
violent overthrow of our secular state. Nowhere in Hebrew or Greek
Christian scripture is there any such agenda to be found. But you will
find it in the Communist Manifesto just as it is in the Qur'an.
No different than we tend to demand that aliens seeking citizenship
should learn to speak English, they should also learn to love freedom.
This means they may not be good, liberty loving citizens of a
democracy, and love the precepts of Islam both. They are free to love
Islam in Arabia. They are free to go there where they may love being
slaves, and love holding slaves. This is not the place for it.
--
JM
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