Cheap racers???

[rcl...@aol.com]

OK RDRC!!!!
Last Sunday while at the field, an idea popped in my head. ( lots of room in there because of the lack of brain cells taking up space)
Anyway,,,,, Jacqui and I were flying her Lucky 13 after a long storage period. She did a couple of moderate speed blow by's and for whatever reason I started thinking about racing. ( NO ROBERT!!!)
As many remember, we attempted to get some club level racing going a few years ago using the ARF quicky planes on the market. Well,,,, even with the less powerful motors on the market, these planes were pretty fast and for the most part, intimidating to a lot of our members. Many others still fly theirs occasionally, but the speed thing sorta got a few in trouble with the ground!
So back to Sunday. Jacqui's Lucky 13 has a pretty good 61 size engine in it, and at full throttle and an APC prop, it covers a lot of ground fast. As a lot of you know, the Lucky 13 is rated for a 46 to 90 size engine. So I began thinking,,,,, What if we used the Lucky 13, restrict it to a 46 or less (ball bearing allowed), and not allow more than a 10X7 prop? The speed should remain fairly slow and allow folks to stay ahead of the plane without problem. Also, the Lucky 13 is a really stable model and slows down very nicely. You can use standard size/ torque servo's, and no special hardware is needed. Several folks at the field showed interest in this, so I wanted to see how many others would entertain the thought. I talked with Dave Hockaday to see what kind of deals East RC might be able to work out if we bought in bulk. He's looking into that now. They have plenty in stock, especially the all white ones. All white would be the best choice because you would want to option to put yuor own graphics or colored stripes on it. We dont want to race T-28s!!! Well,,,,,,,,maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol
So what do you think? Here's a few bits of info to think about,

1. All planes must be a STOCK out of the box Lucky 13
( graphics allowed)
2. No engine to exceed a 46 2-stroke
3. STOCK mufflers only, or replacement type.
( No Pipes, Headers, or pitts style)
4.No prop to exceed a 10X7
5. Wheels must be stock, but wheel pants can be left off if prefered. ( most would be torn off anyway)
6.Stock fuel tank or off the shelf replacement. Hayes, Du-Bro, Sullivan. Muffler pressure only.
( No bladder tanks or racing tanks)
7.No fuel to exceed 15%. You can use synt, castor, or blend. No additives!

I do think we should allow one simple modification the the airframe. We can allow members to add flying wires to the tail feathers. This serves to prevent tail flutter because we'll be flying them wide open most of the flight. Also, it certainly doesnt add any speed to the plane, but could slow it down a very small amount. I'll give up 1 MPH !!!

If you guys ( and gals) think you would be interested, lets hear it. Also, I'd be willing to build a proto type to demonstrate the concept. The other cool thing about this is, if you decide youre not liking the racing thing, you still have a great sport model on your hands you can fly anytime! Rules would be pretty simple, and we'd just use the "two pylon" course with callers being stationed well bacl from teh flight line. If we even use callers! This is a fun club level deal. No big rules, no stress, and for the most part. CHEAP!!!! Most all of you have a 46 size or smaller motor laying around, and enough standrad servos to fill the plane. ( It takes 5) It comes with all the hardware you need, so you wouldnt have to spend anything extra on that. I would say the only thing most members would need is the plane itself. And a lot of you have that already!


So jump in here and let us know. Good idea,,,,, Bad idea,,,,,,,,,, No Larry,,we're having too much fun in the club already,,,,,,,,,,,

[Dave Langridge]

Hurumph..Oi’ve got no darn glow motors…but it sounds like a great idea…..If I plead fear of glow fuel can I use ‘lectric?? Please?? Pretty please?? Awww goooo  onnnn…just one…or maybe an electric class??

 

5 cell max, 4120/06 …  g on..you KNOW it’ll be fun ;*)

 

Heheheheeee……..

 

Dave L

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To post to this group, send email to RD...@googlegroups.com
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[Marshall Sanderson]

I'm game.  Let's do it.

 

Marshall

----- Original Message -----

From: rcl...@aol.com

To: RD...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:11 PM

--

[Bob Richards]

I was thinking why don't we have a T-28 pylon competition. Most of us already have them, they stand up well, and we ALL need practice flying the "race course pattern" with them. :-> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Dave Langridge <davela...@gmail.com> wrote:

[david grubb]

Let me know how this goes. I am interested, but I hate two pole racing.

---

From: Marshall Sanderson [mailto:etown...@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:58 PM
To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

[Kenneth Kiesler]

Sounds like fun, are we going to restrict it to only Lucky 13s or can
we expand it to .60 size low or sholder wing aircraft with a wing span
of no more than 62"? Just an Idea
But I am game, and I have just the motor to use if I can get it
running right :)

Ken

On Nov 24, 4:08 pm, Bob Richards <b...@toprudder.com> wrote:
> I was thinking why don't we have a T-28 pylon competition. Most of us already have them, they stand up well, and we ALL need practice flying the "race course pattern" with them. :->
>

> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Dave Langridge <davelangri...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Dave Langridge <davelangri...@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [RDRC] Cheap racers???
> To: rd...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:44 PM
>
> Hurumph..Oi’ve got no darn glow motors…but it sounds like a great idea…..If I plead fear of glow fuel can I use ‘lectric?? Please?? Pretty please?? Awww goooo  onnnn…just one…or maybe an electric class??
>  
> 5 cell max, 4120/06 …  g on..you KNOW it’ll be fun ;*)
>  
> Heheheheeee……..
>  
> Dave L
>  
>
> From: rcla...@aol.com [mailto:rcla...@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: RD...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RDRC] Cheap racers???
>  
>
> OK RDRC!!!!
> Last Sunday while at the field, an idea popped in my head. ( lots of room in there because of the lack of brain cells taking up space)
> Anyway,,,,, Jacqui and I were flying her Lucky 13 after a long storage period. She did a couple of moderate speed blow by's and for whatever reason I started thinking about racing. ( NO ROBERT!!!)
> As many remember, we attempted to get some club level racing going a few years ago using the ARF quicky planes on the market. Well,,,, even with the less powerful motors on the market, these planes were pretty fast and for the most part, intimidating to a lot of our members. Many others still fly theirs occasionally, but the speed thing sorta got a few in trouble with the ground!

> So back to Sunday. Jacqui's Lucky 13 has a pretty good 61 size engine in it, and at full throttle and an APC prop, it covers a lot of ground fast. As a lot of you know, the Lucky 13 is rated for a 46 to 90 size engine. So I began thinking,,,,, What if we used the Lucky 13, restrict it to a 46 or less (ball bearing allowed), and not allow more than a 10X7 prop? The speed should remain fairly slow and allow folks to stay ahead of the plane without problem. Also, the Lucky 13 is a really stable model and slows down very nicely. You can use standard size/ torque servo's, and no special hardware is needed. Several folks at the field showed interest in this, so I wanted to see how many others would entertain the thought. I talked with Dave Hockaday to see what kind of deals East RC might be able to work out if we bought in bulk. He's looking into that now. They have plenty in stock, especially the all white ones. All white would be the best choice because you

>  would want to option to put yuor own graphics or colored stripes on it. We dont want to race T-28s!!! Well,,,,,,,,maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol

> So what do you think? Here's a few bits of info to think about,
>
> 1. All planes must be a STOCK out of the box Lucky 13
> ( graphics allowed)
> 2. No engine to exceed a 46 2-stroke
> 3. STOCK mufflers only, or replacement type.
> ( No Pipes, Headers, or pitts style)
> 4.No prop to exceed a 10X7
> 5. Wheels must be stock, but wheel pants can be left off if prefered. ( most would be torn off anyway)
> 6.Stock fuel tank or off the shelf replacement. Hayes, Du-Bro, Sullivan. Muffler pressure only.
> ( No bladder tanks or racing tanks)
> 7.No fuel to exceed 15%. You can use synt, castor, or blend. No additives!
>
> I do think we should allow one simple modification the the airframe. We can allow members to add flying wires to the tail feathers. This serves to prevent tail flutter because we'll be flying them wide open most of the flight. Also, it certainly doesnt add any speed to the plane, but could slow it down a very small amount. I'll give up 1 MPH !!!
>
> If you guys ( and gals) think you would be interested, lets hear it. Also, I'd be willing to build a proto type to demonstrate the concept. The other cool thing about this is, if you decide youre not liking the racing thing, you still have a great sport model on your hands you can fly anytime! Rules would be pretty simple, and we'd just use the "two pylon" course with callers being stationed well bacl from teh flight line. If we even use callers! This is a fun club level deal. No big rules, no stress, and for the most part. CHEAP!!!! Most all of you have a 46 size or smaller motor laying around, and enough standrad servos to fill the plane. ( It takes 5) It comes with all the hardware you need, so you wouldnt have to spend anything extra on that. I would say the only thing most members would need is the plane itself. And a lot of you have that already!
>

> So jump in here and let us know. Good idea,,,,, Bad idea,,,,,,,,,, No Larry,,we're having too much fun in the club already,,,,,,,,,,,

> --
> To post to this group, send email to RD...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to RDRC-uns...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/RDRC

> Visit our website athttp://www.rd-rc.org

[rcl...@aol.com]

Yo Ken,

  The reason we're looking at using the Lucky13 is to keep everyone on a fair playing ground. Pretty much the same thing they do in Quicky 500 racing. Everyone has the exact wing span, wing area, etc.  So get "That Motor" you have in mind and get ready to Turn Left/Go fast!!

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/RDRC

[Dave Langridge]

Np for you we’ll just have an extra pole J

 

From: david grubb [mailto:dgru...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:15 PM
To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Cc: celc...@nc.rr.com
Subject: RE: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

 

Let me know how this goes. I am interested, but I hate two pole racing.

[Jeff Morgan]

I noticed that Dave & Co. have an electric ARF kit available.  Any consideration for a stock electric class?  Basically, everything that comes with the kit has to stay the same (ESC, motor, recommended prop) and only up to 6S 5000 mAh (or whatever) could be used.  This allow those of us who are electric only to have fun too!
 
A small caveat; I will hopefully be finishing my first electric plane kit by the weekend.  Provided I can fly something without cyclic and collective pitch, I'd be interested in progressing to the (electric) Lucky 13...it looks awesome and has great reviews!
 

 

---

To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:31:50 -0500
From: rcl...@aol.com

---

Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.

[david grubb]

Just an FYI, in AMA 424, most races required the same engine and even then you usually had to shim the head so everyone tach a standard APC provided 9x6 prop to 16,500 or less. It is the only way to keep things fair. I got caught once on the line after simply changing a dead glow plug. It bumped up the RPM a couple of hundred. The flight line guy could tell just by hearing it. I got a zero on that heat. Cost me enough points from a three way tie for first to 3rd place. Also, a minimum total weight without fuel has to be established. Just standard stuff most of you may already know.

 

---

From: rcl...@aol.com [mailto:rcl...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:32 AM

To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

[Tim Squires]

I have not flown a Lucky 13, but liike the idea of a "RDRC" club racing setup. Being restricted to .46 is good. Cheap props! But, are we free to use any .46? A .46 is one thing, but something like a Nelson or Jett 40 would outrun any .46. So resticting to just .46? Sounds like fun to me. Lets get those rules hardened and on paper!

 

Tim

--

[rcl...@aol.com]

I think an electric class would be awesome!  The basic rules for equipment would have to be drawn up by the electric guys of course. 

[rcl...@aol.com]

Yep,,, but like I was saying. This is low key, club/clubs level stuff. Aside from providing a lot of fun, it could very well inspire some to enter AMA class events in the future. Few rules and inexpensive equipment. We want to keep is very simple any avoid having members spend any more money than needed.

 Running the same engine is great, but again, we want to get folks in the air with what they have on hand already. With any luck, the only expense will the the airframe itself. That is one of our biggest goals. The biggest of course is to HAVE FUN!!!   ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: david grubb <dgru...@gmail.com>
To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:16 am
Subject: RE: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

[rcl...@aol.com]

Hey Tim.

      I posted it on Flying Giants, but forgot to update the Google Forum.

 Here's part of my post from that site.

 

1. All planes must be a STOCK out of the box Lucky 13
( graphics allowed)

2. No engine to exceed a 46 2-stroke ( can not use Nelson or Jett Engines)

3. STOCK mufflers only, or replacement type.
( No Pipes, Headers, or pitts style)
4.No prop to exceed a 10X7
5. Wheels must be stock, but wheel pants can be left off if prefered. ( most would be torn off anyway)
6.Stock fuel tank or off the shelf replacement. Hayes, Du-Bro, Sullivan. Muffler pressure only.
( No bladder tanks or racing tanks)
7.No fuel to exceed 15%. You can use synt, castor, or blend. No additives!

I do think we should allow one simple modification the the airframe. We can allow members to add flying wires to the tail feathers. This serves to prevent tail flutter because we'll be flying them wide open most of the flight. Also, it certainly doesnt add any speed to the plane, but could slow it down a very small amount. I'll give up 1 MPH !!!

 

 

Here is the link to that page on FG.

http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg169/17695-flyn-circus-rdrcs-traveling-circus-886.html

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Squires <tms...@gmail.com>
To: rd...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

[Scott Saxon]

I've participated in this type of discussion before.� Often, trying to make everybody happy with this concession and that restriction etc, kills the whole thing.� I hope you guys can come to agreement and actually succeed in pulling this off.�

One thing we did quite successfully was to have a trainer race.� We limited it to a .25 size trainer.� That was it.� Granted, the guy who put an OS 32FX into a .15 size trainer after beefing up the wing spar outran everybody, but get this.� Everyone had a ton of fun.� What happened was that the planes who were close to each other had a lot more exciting race than the super fast guy.�

Another case in point.� The most exciting race I ever had was a 100 lap race.� I was the only one who took it seriously and built a special plane for the race.� By the time we reached 85 laps I was out front by about 15 laps.� It was cool to be out front like that, but the real race was about who would be second and third etc.� But then a slightly pinched fuel line leaned my engine and slowed my plane and as lap after lap made my lead smaller and smaller, we started to calculate how many more laps and how much I was losing and it all looked like I was going to just barely hold on.� My 15 lap lead came down to less than a half a lap lead with one lap to go and a couple of guys coming on fast.� But as my plane passed in front of me with only that one lap to go, I noticed the engine was no longer running.� I couldn't even make the last lap and lost the race, but everyone who was there agreed it was the most intense and exciting race ever.� It would have been boring if I had won with a 20 lap lead.�

I would say allowing anything and everything to fly with a limit of a .46 engine or equal size electric would probably get five times as many people to join in.� Each and every requirement will eliminate someone.� You could even do time trials and sort people into classes depending on how fast they can do three laps.� Sure, you'll get some sandbagging, but as long as everyone is there for just the fun of it, who cares?�

Now if you're serious about winning, then you should go official and run some real racing classes.� I wonder if anyone would show up for that?� I have noticed that when one race plane goes out, often anyone else with one also heads out.� I bet you could get some to show up.

Scott

rcl...@aol.com wrote:

I think an electric class would be awesome!� The basic rules for equipment would have to be drawn up by the electric guys of course.�

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Morgan <mtnbi...@hotmail.com>
To: RDRC Group <rd...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:05 am
Subject: RE: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

I noticed that Dave & Co. have an electric�ARF kit available.��Any consideration for a stock electric class?��Basically,�everything that comes with the kit has�to stay the same (ESC, motor, recommended prop) and�only up to 6S 5000 mAh (or whatever) could be used.� This allow those of us who are�electric only to have fun too!
�
A small caveat; I�will hopefully be finishing my first electric plane kit�by the�weekend.� Provided I can fly something without cyclic and collective pitch, I'd be interested in progressing to the (electric)�Lucky 13...it looks awesome and�has great reviews!
�

�

---

To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:31:50 -0500
From: rcl...@aol.com

Yo Ken,

� The reason we're looking at using the Lucky13 is to keep everyone on a fair playing ground. Pretty much the same thing they do in Quicky 500 racing. Everyone has the exact wing span, wing area, etc.� So get "That Motor" you have in mind and get ready to Turn Left/Go fast!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Kiesler <kenneth...@gmail.com>
To: RDRC <rd...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 9:35 am
Subject: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

Sounds like fun, are we going to restrict it to only Lucky 13s or can
we expand it to .60 size low or sholder wing aircraft with a wing span
of no more than 62"? Just an Idea
But I am game, and I have just the motor to use if I can get it
running right :)

Ken

On Nov 24, 4:08�pm, Bob Richards <b...@toprudder.com> wrote:
> I was thinking why don't we have a T-28 pylon competition. Most of us already 
have them, they stand up well, and we ALL need practice flying the "race course 
pattern" with them. :->
>
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Dave Langridge <davelangri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Dave Langridge <davelangri...@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [RDRC] Cheap racers???
> To: rd...@googlegroups.com

> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:44 PM
>
> Hurumph..Oi�ve got no darn glow motors�but it sounds like a great idea�..If I 
plead fear of glow fuel can I use �lectric?? Please?? Pretty please?? Awww 
goooo� onnnn�just one�or maybe an electric class??
> �
> 5 cell max, 4120/06 �� g on..you KNOW it�ll be fun ;*)
> �
> Heheheheeee��..
> �
> Dave L
> �
>
> From: rcla...@aol.com [mailto:rcla...@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: RD...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RDRC] Cheap racers???
> �
>
> OK RDRC!!!!
> Last Sunday while at the field, an idea popped in my head. ( lots of room in 
there because of the lack of brain cells taking up space)
> Anyway,,,,, Jacqui and I were flying her Lucky 13 after a long storage period. 
She did a couple of moderate speed blow by's and for whatever reason I started 
thinking about racing. ( NO ROBERT!!!)
> As many remember, we attempted to get some club level racing going a few years 
ago using the ARF quicky planes on the market. Well,,,, even with the less 
powerful motors on the market, these planes were pretty fast and for the most 
part, intimidating to a lot of our members. Many others still fly theirs 
occasionally, but the speed thing sorta got a few in trouble with the ground!
> So back to Sunday. Jacqui's Lucky 13 has a pretty good 61 size engine in it, 
and at full throttle and an APC prop, it covers a lot of ground fast. As a lot 
of you know, the Lucky 13 is rated for a 46 to 90 size engine. So I began 
thinking,,,,, What if we used the Lucky 13, restrict it to a 46 or less (ball 
bearing allowed), and not allow more than a 10X7 prop? The speed should remain 
fairly slow and allow folks to stay ahead of the plane without problem. Also, 
the Lucky 13 is a really stable model and slows down very nicely. You can use 
standard size/ torque servo's, and no special hardware is needed. Several folks 
at the field showed interest in this, so I wanted to see how many others would 
entertain the thought. I talked with Dave Hockaday to see what kind of deals 
East RC might be able to work out if we bought in bulk. He's looking into that 
now. They have plenty in stock, especially the all white ones. All white would 
be the best choice because you
> �would want to option to put yuor own graphics or colored stripes on it. We 
dont want to race T-28s!!! Well,,,,,,,,maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol
> So what do you think? Here's a few bits of info to think about,
>
> 1. All planes must be a STOCK out of the box Lucky 13
> ( graphics allowed)
> 2. No engine to exceed a 46 2-stroke
> 3. STOCK mufflers only, or replacement type.
> ( No Pipes, Headers, or pitts style)
> 4.No prop to exceed a 10X7
> 5. Wheels must be stock, but wheel pants can be left off if prefered. ( most 
would be torn off anyway)
> 6.Stock fuel tank or off the shelf replacement. Hayes, Du-Bro, Sullivan. 
Muffler pressure only.
> ( No bladder tanks or racing tanks)
> 7.No fuel to exceed 15%. You can use synt, castor, or blend. No additives!
>
> I do think we should allow one simple modification the the airframe. We can 
allow members to add flying wires to the tail feathers. This serves to prevent 
tail flutter because we'll be flying them wide open most of the flight. Also, it 
certainly doesnt add any speed to the plane, but could slow it down a very small 
amount. I'll give up 1 MPH !!!
>
> If you guys ( and gals) think you would be interested, lets hear it. Also, I'd 
be willing to build a proto type to demonstrate the concept. The other cool 
thing about this is, if you decide youre not liking the racing thing, you still 
have a great sport model on your hands you can fly anytime! Rules would be 
pretty simple, and we'd just use the "two pylon" course with callers being 
stationed well bacl from teh flight line. If we even use callers! This is a fun 
club level deal. No big rules, no stress, and for the most part. CHEAP!!!! Most 
all of you have a 46 size or smaller motor laying around, and enough standrad 
servos to fill the plane. ( It takes 5) It comes with all the hardware you need, 
so you wouldnt have to spend anything extra on that. I would say the only thing 
most members would need is the plane itself. And a lot of you have that already!
>
> So jump in here and let us know. Good idea,,,,, Bad idea,,,,,,,,,, No 
Larry,,we're having too much fun in the club already,,,,,,,,,,,
> --
> To post to this group, send email to RD...@googlegroups.com

[Bob Richards]

Exactly what do you mean by "not to exceed 10x7"?  I think we should define the prop size to be 10x7 period. Everyone uses the same prop.   Bob R

[Jeff Morgan]

Perhaps Larry feels his skills far surpasses everyone else and would like to run a less aggessive prop; thereby providing those with a handicap a better chance at winning? 

 

---

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:14:24 -0800
From: b...@toprudder.com

Subject: Re: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

To: rd...@googlegroups.com

--
To post to this group, send email to RD...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to RDRC-uns...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/RDRC
Visit our website at http://www.rd-rc.org

---

Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.

[rcl...@aol.com]

I was thinking about those who run 46 vs, smaller engine. If a guy chose to use a .40 he had laying around, he could use a smaller pitch prop so not to load the engine down too much. .40= 10X6, or something like that. On the other side of the fence, we don't want .46 users using 10X8, 10X9 etc.

 We could specify APC props id wanted. All this is dynamic, so lets get more input. Also looking at other airframe choices. I want to keep this as cheap as possible, but offer  fun and easy flying.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Richards <b...@toprudder.com>
To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

[rcl...@aol.com]

lol,I certainly hope that was a joke!!!  I need all the help I can get!!!!!   ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Morgan <mtnbi...@hotmail.com>
To: RDRC Group <rd...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: RE: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

[gull...@gmail.com]

Imho: 

I agree. Make simple rules and you'll get more praticipation.  For the guys that want to be the fastest, let em.  If is for fun the good times are in the close races anyway. Make a suggested set up (for ex. OS .46 w/ 10x4 or what ever) and let any one else play too. If its popular you'll get two groups, one that want to be the quickest and ones that just want to play. In the end evey one wins.    

Sounds fun.

 

Kenny

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Scott Saxon <ama...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've participated in this type of discussion before.  Often, trying to make everybody happy with this concession and that restriction etc, kills the whole thing.  I hope you guys can come to agreement and actually succeed in pulling this off. 

One thing we did quite successfully was to have a trainer race.  We limited it to a .25 size trainer.  That was it.  Granted, the guy who put an OS 32FX into a .15 size trainer after beefing up the wing spar outran everybody, but get this.  Everyone had a ton of fun.  What happened was that the planes who were close to each other had a lot more exciting race than the super fast guy. 

Another case in point.  The most exciting race I ever had was a 100 lap race.  I was the only one who took it seriously and built a special plane for the race.  By the time we reached 85 laps I was out front by about 15 laps.  It was cool to be out front like that, but the real race was about who would be second and third etc.  But then a slightly pinched fuel line leaned my engine and slowed my plane and as lap after lap made my lead smaller and smaller, we started to calculate how many more laps and how much I was losing and it all looked like I was going to just barely hold on.  My 15 lap lead came down to less than a half a lap lead with one lap to go and a couple of guys coming on fast.  But as my plane passed in front of me with only that one lap to go, I noticed the engine was no longer running.  I couldn't even make the last lap and lost the race, but everyone who was there agreed it was the most intense and exciting race ever.  It would have been boring if I had won with a 20 lap lead. 

I would say allowing anything and everything to fly with a limit of a .46 engine or equal size electric would probably get five times as many people to join in.  Each and every requirement will eliminate someone.  You could even do time trials and sort people into classes depending on how fast they can do three laps.  Sure, you'll get some sandbagging, but as long as everyone is there for just the fun of it, who cares? 

Now if you're serious about winning, then you should go official and run some real racing classes.  I wonder if anyone would show up for that?  I have noticed that when one race plane goes out, often anyone else with one also heads out.  I bet you could get some to show up.

Scott

rcl...@aol.com wrote:

I think an electric class would be awesome!  The basic rules for equipment would have to be drawn up by the electric guys of course. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Morgan <mtnbi...@hotmail.com>
To: RDRC Group <rd...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:05 am
Subject: RE: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

I noticed that Dave & Co. have an electric ARF kit available.  Any consideration for a stock electric class?  Basically, everything that comes with the kit has to stay the same (ESC, motor, recommended prop) and only up to 6S 5000 mAh (or whatever) could be used.  This allow those of us who are electric only to have fun too!
 
A small caveat; I will hopefully be finishing my first electric plane kit by the weekend.  Provided I can fly something without cyclic and collective pitch, I'd be interested in progressing to the (electric) Lucky 13...it looks awesome and has great reviews!
 

 

---

To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:31:50 -0500
From: rcl...@aol.com

Yo Ken,

  The reason we're looking at using the Lucky13 is to keep everyone on a fair playing ground. Pretty much the same thing they do in Quicky 500 racing. Everyone has the exact wing span, wing area, etc.  So get "That Motor" you have in mind and get ready to Turn Left/Go fast!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Kiesler <kenneth...@gmail.com>
To: RDRC <rd...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 9:35 am
Subject: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

Sounds like fun, are we going to restrict it to only Lucky 13s or can
we expand it to .60 size low or sholder wing aircraft with a wing span
of no more than 62"? Just an Idea
But I am game, and I have just the motor to use if I can get it
running right :)

Ken

On Nov 24, 4:08 pm, Bob Richards <b...@toprudder.com> wrote:
> I was thinking why don't we have a T-28 pylon competition. Most of us already 
have them, they stand up well, and we ALL need practice flying the "race course 
pattern" with them. :->
>
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Dave Langridge <davelangri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Dave Langridge <davelangri...@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [RDRC] Cheap racers???
> To: rd...@googlegroups.com

> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 6:44 PM
>
> Hurumph..Oi’ve got no darn glow motors…but it sounds like a great idea…..If I 
plead fear of glow fuel can I use ‘lectric?? Please?? Pretty please?? Awww 
goooo  onnnn…just one…or maybe an electric class??
>  
> 5 cell max, 4120/06 …  g on..you KNOW it’ll be fun ;*)
>  
> Heheheheeee……..
>  
> Dave L
>  
>
> From: rcla...@aol.com [mailto:rcla...@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: RD...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RDRC] Cheap racers???
>  
>
> OK RDRC!!!!
> Last Sunday while at the field, an idea popped in my head. ( lots of room in 
there because of the lack of brain cells taking up space)
> Anyway,,,,, Jacqui and I were flying her Lucky 13 after a long storage period. 
She did a couple of moderate speed blow by's and for whatever reason I started 
thinking about racing. ( NO ROBERT!!!)
> As many remember, we attempted to get some club level racing going a few years 
ago using the ARF quicky planes on the market. Well,,,, even with the less 
powerful motors on the market, these planes were pretty fast and for the most 
part, intimidating to a lot of our members. Many others still fly theirs 
occasionally, but the speed thing sorta got a few in trouble with the ground!
> So back to Sunday. Jacqui's Lucky 13 has a pretty good 61 size engine in it, 
and at full throttle and an APC prop, it covers a lot of ground fast. As a lot 
of you know, the Lucky 13 is rated for a 46 to 90 size engine. So I began 
thinking,,,,, What if we used the Lucky 13, restrict it to a 46 or less (ball 
bearing allowed), and not allow more than a 10X7 prop? The speed should remain 
fairly slow and allow folks to stay ahead of the plane without problem. Also, 
the Lucky 13 is a really stable model and slows down very nicely. You can use 
standard size/ torque servo's, and no special hardware is needed. Several folks 
at the field showed interest in this, so I wanted to see how many others would 
entertain the thought. I talked with Dave Hockaday to see what kind of deals 
East RC might be able to work out if we bought in bulk. He's looking into that 
now. They have plenty in stock, especially the all white ones. All white would 
be the best choice because you
>  would want to option to put yuor own graphics or colored stripes on it. We 
dont want to race T-28s!!! Well,,,,,,,,maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol
> So what do you think? Here's a few bits of info to think about,
>
> 1. All planes must be a STOCK out of the box Lucky 13
> ( graphics allowed)
> 2. No engine to exceed a 46 2-stroke
> 3. STOCK mufflers only, or replacement type.
> ( No Pipes, Headers, or pitts style)
> 4.No prop to exceed a 10X7
> 5. Wheels must be stock, but wheel pants can be left off if prefered. ( most 
would be torn off anyway)
> 6.Stock fuel tank or off the shelf replacement. Hayes, Du-Bro, Sullivan. 
Muffler pressure only.
> ( No bladder tanks or racing tanks)
> 7.No fuel to exceed 15%. You can use synt, castor, or blend. No additives!
>
> I do think we should allow one simple modification the the airframe. We can 
allow members to add flying wires to the tail feathers. This serves to prevent 
tail flutter because we'll be flying them wide open most of the flight. Also, it 
certainly doesnt add any speed to the plane, but could slow it down a very small 
amount. I'll give up 1 MPH !!!
>
> If you guys ( and gals) think you would be interested, lets hear it. Also, I'd 
be willing to build a proto type to demonstrate the concept. The other cool 
thing about this is, if you decide youre not liking the racing thing, you still 
have a great sport model on your hands you can fly anytime! Rules would be 
pretty simple, and we'd just use the "two pylon" course with callers being 
stationed well bacl from teh flight line. If we even use callers! This is a fun 
club level deal. No big rules, no stress, and for the most part. CHEAP!!!! Most 
all of you have a 46 size or smaller motor laying around, and enough standrad 
servos to fill the plane. ( It takes 5) It comes with all the hardware you need, 
so you wouldnt have to spend anything extra on that. I would say the only thing 
most members would need is the plane itself. And a lot of you have that already!
>
> So jump in here and let us know. Good idea,,,,, Bad idea,,,,,,,,,, No 
Larry,,we're having too much fun in the club already,,,,,,,,,,,
> --
> To post to this group, send email to RD...@googlegroups.com

[Dave Langridge]

If they say no, don’t worry…we’ll start a rebel breakaway electric race special and fly against them when they are not looking J

 

When is the maiden for the electric??

 

Dave L

 

From: Jeff Morgan [mailto:mtnbi...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:05 AM
To: RDRC Group
Subject: RE: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

 

I noticed that Dave & Co. have an electric ARF kit available.  Any consideration for a stock electric class?  Basically, everything that comes with the kit has to stay the same (ESC, motor, recommended prop) and only up to 6S 5000 mAh (or whatever) could be used.  This allow those of us who are electric only to have fun too!

[david grubb]

I agree completely to having fun as the main goal. At least shim the heads of the different engines to turn the same prop the same RPM and make all the planes weight the same. It is no fun at all to have someone fly worse than you and still beat you due to extra speed due to any of the above conditions. People actually get mad instead of having fun.

---

From: rcl...@aol.com [mailto:rcl...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:40 PM

[david grubb]

I've seen Larry and Robert fly two pole before. They are good, but can be taken.

---

From: rcl...@aol.com [mailto:rcl...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 5:41 PM
To: rd...@googlegroups.com

[Rcnu...@aol.com]

In a club, long, long ago, we raced 40 sized racing planes. They were designed and kitted by a club member with extraordinary skills and stupid extra time on his hands. We each built our planes and threw on the same engines(I think K&B 40's....gives some of you an idea of how long ago this might have been) and we all used the same brand and size prop. Low budget and low key.

 

We had two pylons. The pilots that figured out how to make the turns the best and had their engines tuned the best usually won...I say usually because mid air spatial issues with competing planes and cutting the pylons too short or too long usually made the difference in first place and some other place. Pilot skill did more often than not, make the difference in how you finished.

 

This can be a blast. Just likely want to define a specific power system and plane to narrow down the variables. Bob's idea of the T-28 might be a great starting point to see what kind of interest there is.

 

Also, an anything that flies race might be fun as a starting point as well. Yes, the really fast planes will come in ahead of the trainers, but this avenue utilizes existing planes and lets the participants get a quick feel for this aspect of the hobby before they invest in something they have not tried.

 

It is a rush to fly in a pylon race. Often, just finishing the race is a victory(sorta of like the T-28 mass flys)

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

John

[rcl...@aol.com]

It already has the thumbs up!  But like I was saying. You electric guru's would have to set the motor restrictions on that. In talking with Chris, it would be VERY easy for some to build rockets that were not visible detectable! lol

[rcl...@aol.com]

And we're really out of practice to!!!   ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: david grubb <dgru...@gmail.com>
To: rd...@googlegroups.com

[Jim]

2 cents well spent

 

Jim

jcharb...@nc.rr.com   

 

From: Rcnu...@aol.com [mailto:Rcnu...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:29 AM
To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

 

In a club, long, long ago, we raced 40 sized racing planes. They were designed and kitted by a club member with extraordinary skills and stupid extra time on his hands. We each built our planes and threw on the same engines(I think K&B 40's....gives some of you an idea of how long ago this might have been) and we all used the same brand and size prop. Low budget and low key.

--

[Jim]

Right! “Robert and I are out of practice” is an Oxymoron. BTW any control mistakes made with my new "Urge" would be my error, it flies better than a T-28 even in the wind…nice job!

Jim

jcharb...@nc.rr.com   

[rcl...@aol.com]

Good points John.

 

   I'm not quite sold on the "Fly Anything" plane though. We do have a lot of the quicky 500 planes in the club still. In fact, I still have a Nelson equipped Viper RTF stitting on the shelf. As does Robert, and two or three Jett 46 powered Vipers are still flown by other members on occasion.. Not that I would even bring mine out to race with, but I wouldn't want any of the others to either. Like one person has already said, it's just not fun when you're so much faster than everyone else,and pilot skill contributes little. I'm just not going to watch some guy with a Viper blow my doors off when Im flying a Sig Razzle! No matter how good a line I fly, Im toasted! Also, I wouldn't want folks heavily modifying other planes to speed them up. Hey,,, who says you cant get a trainer to haul butt? But when they do these modifications, who will check to see they are structurally sound? Most trainer type planes are not designed to take heavy G loads in turns.
  What I was hoping to do is much like you guys did back in 1955. Well,,,,,you DID say you guys used the old K&B 40 !!!! LOLOLOL    Keep the airframe the same,  As for the motor, I have no problem running the same engine, but I was trying to keep any purchases to a minimum.  I do think running the same prop is a good idea. Most everyone would probably run a  decent .46 of some sort.

 

  On the airframe. I'm still waiting for East R/C to give us a price on bulk purchase of the lucky 13, but I have already started looking at other airframes as well.  In looking at Horizon Hobbies site, I see we could buy ARF 40 size "Sticks" complete with all hardware for $99 !  Only small problem is they have graphics on them already. If I'm correct on this, they are printed. I can check in to this. Obviously our planes will need to have some separation in colors or graphics. I have no problem ripping off the top portion of the wing covering and replacing it, (  20 minute task) but what does everyone else think about doing that? Just another thought.

 

  T-28 racing?  Yup,,that would be fun! I'm not so sure we don't do it now! lol  What worries me is we'll be working the mess out of our batteries. I worry about puffing them. I know we could limit the laps to avoid this, but that could really cut the race short. Not the mention the cost of batteries! One good 3 cell 2200 MaH battery cost what some inexpensive glow motors cost. There are advantages to electric that glow doesn't offer. No Tuning, no idling and waiting on others, But to me one of the biggest issues is cost itself. If you don't already own one, your looking at spending $169 for the plane,at least 3 batteries at $65 and a charger if you don't have one. Those range in price but you'll spend at least $60 for a good one. One could quickly spend over $400 to get a T-28 in the air. Even if you do have one, many will have to invest in several batteries. ( I know some folks already have an arsenal of them) Yes, I'm one of those that will have to drop a wad of cash on batteries. I just ordered three batteries a couple of days ago. All of them different sizes to do some testing. $192 test plus shipping! And those are just 20C packs !  Just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 Regardless of which way we go, it's AWESOME to see the interest among members in us doing some sort of racing. We've already had another club send word they have members interested in doing the same, and compete with us. Again, we need to keep the rules simple, but we do need SOME rules. In any form of racing they have them because they are needed. We don't want to over do them ( NASCAR) , but we want everyone to have a chance at being competitive. More than anything, we want them to have fun. Being able to stay in the mix of racers adds to your chances of having fun! ;)

 

  You guys keep the ideas coming!!!!!  Already this is looking to be a blast!!!

 

Larreeeeeee

-----Original Message-----
From: Rcnu...@aol.com
To: rd...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2009 8:28 am
Subject: Re: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

[rcl...@aol.com]

Well,,,maybe I don't remember which pylon is #2 !!!

  Those URGE's really are a great flying foamy. I need to get another one going soon. My current NEW one looks pretty rough after that motor departure! lol   Amazing how much foam disappeared in in that APC prop in just one second!   LOL

[Jeff Morgan]

All of the details for the electric class will probably be worked out by the time I'm ready (need a bit of stick time under my belt).  However, I will probably jump on a kit well before I can actually fly it. 
 
I was hoping to maiden the electric this weekend, but I'm caught up in the holiday stuff so it may get delayed a week.  It's a really neat design.
 
 
 
Jeff
 

---

From: davela...@gmail.com
To: rd...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [RDRC] Re: Cheap racers???

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:20:10 -0500

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[Marshall Sanderson]

Just read your latest post Larry.  Just a few commentsand  thoughts.  I occasionally have thoughts.  I'm game for whatever combo is chosen.  Anyway, my thoughts.  Several clubs in NC are using AMA 424 racers with a 25 size engine and APC prop.  This would allow anyone to continue racing if they found they enjoyed it and wanted to compete with other clubs, etc.

 

Don't know the cost of the combo but it shouldn't be significantly different if someone were starting without any plane or engine.  One drawback would be limited fun flying if they lost interest, which the Lucky 13 would allow.

 

Any way it goes, sounds like fun. 

 

Happy Thanksgiving .

 

Marshall

----- Original Message -----

From: rcl...@aol.com

[Bob Richards]

Larry,   Don't know where you are getting your batteries, but you can get Zippy packs for about $25. I have a whole slew of them and have nothing but good things to say about them.   http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7228   I don't see how you can puff those. We fly a LONG time on a charge since the static current draw is less than 10c with the stock prop. A fixed number of laps can keep the capacity used to a safe level for the packs.   All the talk about having to spend money on the T28s is a little confusing. The reason I suggested it is because LOTS of club members already have them - nothing more to spend for a lot of us. They hold up well, more durable than the L13 or any other balsa plane. We could announce a race tomorrow and probably have a dozen people ready to go. If we went with the L13, most of us would have to buy a plane and possibly an engine and put it all together (I would).   Remember also that the Space Cowboys have already announced a T28 competition for next year. They did not say exactly WHAT type of competition, but pylon racing is what it sounded like.   Anyway, those are the reasons why I suggested T28s.   Bob R.

[Dave Langridge]

http://budget-rc.com/products-page/combat/p-51-mustang-epp/

 

there are always deals like this one….could be fun J

 

Dave L

 

From: rcl...@aol.com [mailto:rcl...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:11 PM
To: RD...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RDRC] Cheap racers???

 

OK RDRC!!!!
Last Sunday while at the field, an idea popped in my head. ( lots of room in there because of the lack of brain cells taking up space)
Anyway,,,,, Jacqui and I were flying her Lucky 13 after a long storage period. She did a couple of moderate speed blow by's and for whatever reason I started thinking about racing. ( NO ROBERT!!!)

As many remember, we attempted to get some club level racing going a few years ago using the ARF quicky planes on the market. Well,,,, even with the less powerful motors on the market, these planes were pretty fast and for the most part, intimidating to a lot of our members. Many others still fly theirs occasionally, but the speed thing sorta got a few in trouble with the ground!
So back to Sunday. Jacqui's Lucky 13 has a pretty good 61 size engine in it, and at full throttle and an APC prop, it covers a lot of ground fast. As a lot of you know, the Lucky 13 is rated for a 46 to 90 size engine. So I began thinking,,,,, What if we used the Lucky 13, restrict it to a 46 or less (ball bearing allowed), and not allow more than a 10X7 prop? The speed should remain fairly slow and allow folks to stay ahead of the plane without problem. Also, the Lucky 13 is a really stable model and slows down very nicely. You can use standard size/ torque servo's, and no special hardware is needed. Several folks at the field showed interest in this, so I wanted to see how many others would entertain the thought. I talked with Dave Hockaday to see what kind of deals East RC might be able to work out if we bought in bulk. He's looking into that now. They have plenty in stock, especially the all white ones. All white would be the best choice because you would want to option to put yuor own graphics or colored stripes on it. We dont want to race T-28s!!! Well,,,,,,,,maybe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol

So what do you think? Here's a few bits of info to think about,

1. All planes must be a STOCK out of the box Lucky 13
( graphics allowed)
2. No engine to exceed a 46 2-stroke
3. STOCK mufflers only, or replacement type.
( No Pipes, Headers, or pitts style)
4.No prop to exceed a 10X7
5. Wheels must be stock, but wheel pants can be left off if prefered. ( most would be torn off anyway)
6.Stock fuel tank or off the shelf replacement. Hayes, Du-Bro, Sullivan. Muffler pressure only.
( No bladder tanks or racing tanks)
7.No fuel to exceed 15%. You can use synt, castor, or blend. No additives!

I do think we should allow one simple modification the the airframe. We can allow members to add flying wires to the tail feathers. This serves to prevent tail flutter because we'll be flying them wide open most of the flight. Also, it certainly doesnt add any speed to the plane, but could slow it down a very small amount. I'll give up 1 MPH !!!

If you guys ( and gals) think you would be interested, lets hear it. Also, I'd be willing to build a proto type to demonstrate the concept. The other cool thing about this is, if you decide youre not liking the racing thing, you still have a great sport model on your hands you can fly anytime! Rules would be pretty simple, and we'd just use the "two pylon" course with callers being stationed well bacl from teh flight line. If we even use callers! This is a fun club level deal. No big rules, no stress, and for the most part. CHEAP!!!! Most all of you have a 46 size or smaller motor laying around, and enough standrad servos to fill the plane. ( It takes 5) It comes with all the hardware you need, so you wouldnt have to spend anything extra on that. I would say the only thing most members would need is the plane itself. And a lot of you have that already!

So jump in here and let us know. Good idea,,,,, Bad idea,,,,,,,,,, No Larry,,we're having too much fun in the club already,,,,,,,,,,,