Anyone know how the Ferdinand's suspension worked?

[Pete Arundel]

I'm not planning on building a Ferdinand / Elefant or a Porsche Tiger
but does anyone understand how it's suspension works? The description
is 'paired wheels sprung on longitudinal torsion bars' but I can't
work out just how. So, knowing how bright*, educated* and good
looking** the membership here is, I thought I'd ask.

Just curiosity, you understand.

*except Neil
** absolutely except Neil

[Steve Tyng]

I found a diagram of a Ferdinand suspension bogie here:

http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/history2.htm

The diagram shows a torsion bar internal in the bogie assembly running
the length of the bogie. The front axle was solidly mounted to the
bogie. The aft axle was attached to the torsion bar by a linkage that
is not well documented in the diagram. So the action is the bogie
pivots on the hull and the springing action is provided by the aft
axle which moves in relation to the bogie arm. I can see why this
design was not widely used. It's very highly stressed and doesn't
provide much suspension travel. It does have the benefit of taking up
no internal hull volume.

The closest design to this built by our members would be the pivoting
unsprung bogie system used by Marc on his big Leopard.

http://members.upc.nl/m.methorst9/7.JPG
http://members.upc.nl/m.methorst9/8.JPG
http://members.upc.nl/m.methorst9/9.JPG

Steve Tyng

[Pete Arundel]

It's not very clear, Steve, but thanks for the link. The best I'd come
up with was a plastic model . . .

http://www.bpmodels.net/Model/TigerP/Step2.jpg

You don't fancy a little trip to Aberdeen to have a look for me, do
you? :-)

[Steve Tyng]

The model pic brings it into sharp focus for me. Are you planning on
replicating this design in scale?

Steve

[Odyssey...@aol.com]

it pretty much looks like it starts a torsion suspension (cylinder shown on the top of the parts) that is connected to the first wheel, and then off of that same attachment, there is a oil filled shock of some sort.

 

I am wondering how much steel they saved by doing it this way and how much weight difference there was between this style suspension and the regular all torsion bar system.

 

i would think it could be possible to do this arrangement is used on a larger 1:6th scale tank. use your 1/4" rod to the top of the side arm (what would you call it?). then have the side bar drilled, pinned, bolted or what have you to mount your first wheel to it. on the top end of the bar, i would then think about drilling for a pieces of 1/8" rod (i would think anything else would be too stiff - maybe the main rods should be made as 5/16? but that might be too heavy or stiff for the suspension to work properly).

 

then you would take pieces of 1/8" rod, figure how deep in would need to go into the arm, then you would need to have it bent go roll around and under the bolt that you would be attaching the first wheel to. i would think it should have some downward angle to it when the tank is off the ground so when it's on the ground, it's able to apply some pressure to the tracks. because the rod is thinner for this part, it should allow the wheel to flex a bit more easier, letting the main wheel take the initial shock (of the bump on the ground) and then let the trailing wheel act more like a shock absorber to a leaf spring.

 

at least that would be my take.

 

the only problem i would see is attaching the second wheel. i think if you took a rod or bold and drilled it so the 1/8" rod can go through it, you might be able to pin it in place or something (trying to keep it simple for those that can't get it welded).

 

now i was toying with an idea a few weeks ago that someone might be able to use, i thought that if you took a regular 1/4" torsion set up and leave about an inch between the rear of the wheel and the arm and drill through it for a piece of 1/8" rod to run through it - this rod would extend to both sides of the wheel leading to wheels to both sides of the first, main wheel. the rod for the central wheel needs to pivot somehow (haven't thought about that part yet) to help aid with the movement of the 2 side wheels. i thought if this could be figured out a bit further, it could save on some weight as you wouldn't need all of them steel rods underneath or in the bottom of the tank.

 

(maybe someone with google sketch experience can work them both up so they can be easier to understood)

 

Chris,
Odyssey Slipways

[Pete Arundel]

On Mar 9, 11:10 pm, Steve Tyng <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The model pic brings it into sharp focus for me.  Are you planning on
> replicating this design in scale?
>
> Steve

Good grief, no! I just have a suspension fetish and I like to know how
things work. As you said, the system used on the Elefant / Tiger (p) /
VK3001 (p) seems to have no great advantages and some serious
disadvantages. Makes me wonder why ol' Ferdinand didn't use Horstman
suspension or leaf springs like the 38(t). Looks like they'd have
greater travel and leafs and coils are much easier to make than
torsion bars.

Pete.