VTL (Very Tiny Language) for Z80?

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 1:30:49 PM4/21/25

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Does anyone know if there is a VTL version for the Z80?

VTL is a Very Tiny Language that fit into exactly 768 bytes.

Tim Radde

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Apr 21, 2025, 4:38:17 PM4/21/25

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I have never heard of this. What could it be used for?

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:00:29 PM4/21/25

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About the same things you could do with Tiny BASIC.

It's just a really clever programming language that's fun to explore.

I did find an 8080 version that's 1023 bytes.

I'm pretty sure that could be shrunk with the Z80 opcodes.

I doubt no one has ever ported this to the Z80. Just gotta dig some more.

Robb

Andrew Carr

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:07:02 PM4/21/25

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The language concept looks super interesting. A sort of super-micro basic from the looks?

Per https://middleriver.chagasi.com/electronics/vtl.html -- it appears that there _might_ have been one at one point. At the bottom, reference #3 points to "Nobushiro Arika: VTL-Z, Encyclopedia ASCII Volume 2 (published from March 1978 to August 1978) (this article itself was published in the June 1978 issue of ASCII), pp. 177-?, ASCII. VTL for Z-80."

From poking around google, looks like VTL-2 was targeting the Altair 8080... so in theory should be semi-compatible with a z80. I did find this https://altairclone.com/downloads/roms/VTL-2%20(Very%20Tiny%20Language)/ but it only contains the bin for the altair. Plus the manual... Perhaps there's a software archive in a dusty corner of the internet with more info.

Oh, hello! http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?t=2612 Looks like there's some old assembly... and even a zip file that _says_ it's the compiler.... But it's UUEncoded or somesuch. "original vtl-program for the z80 as 26 gif copied pages."

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Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:22:43 PM4/21/25

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Under the hood is really fascinating. It inspired me to write my own script. It fizzled, but I might pick it back up.

I think that last one is for the 6502. I do have the assembly for it and ported it to my 6502 machine. It could be cross ported to the z80 if someone is willing. I'm just now learning z80 assembly, so it's not me...at least right now.

Andrew Carr

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:28:23 PM4/21/25

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From the post http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?p=27509#p27509 - barrym has a 'VTL-Compiler.zip' attached. You'll need to "uudecode" the file before attempting to unzip it. I was able to extract the images and the source listing _looks_ like z80 assembly.

Seems like the original VTL was quickly replaced by VTL-2 but it still fits in the same number of bytes.

I'm going to have to play with this next weekend. :)

For windows, looks like WinZip or WinRar should be able to handle the file. You may have to rename it to VTL-Compiler.zip.uue however.

Andrew

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Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:31:04 PM4/21/25

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I also found this:

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-MITS/40-Software/VTL-2/VTL%20archive/vtl_8080/

Robb

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:32:19 PM4/21/25

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Can you extract and then re-zip and attach?

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:35:05 PM4/21/25

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The one I found looks like 8080 code, which should compile on a Z80, but with effort, it could be compacted a bit with Z80 opcodes.

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:39:32 PM4/21/25

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And this one. Again, 8080 code.

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-MITS/40-Software/minolvtl/mitsvtl2.txt

Andrew Carr

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:39:59 PM4/21/25

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I'm still picking up assembly as well, could be 8080 code... either way, I suspect to run it on the RC2014 stack, we'd need to tweak it somehow.

Added as a google drive link. Let's see if it makes it.

Andrew

On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 5:35 PM Robb Bates <robb...@gmail.com> wrote:

The one I found looks like 8080 code, which should compile on a Z80, but with effort, it could be compacted a bit with Z80 opcodes.

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VTL-Compiler.zip

Andrew Carr

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Apr 21, 2025, 7:50:24 PM4/21/25

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Correction - I'm looking a bit closer at the op codes in the listing and.... they're not quite matching up with Z80. But they are lining up with Intel 8008 / 8080 ones.

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 9:45:12 PM4/21/25

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EUREKA!!! I found it!

https://github.com/akih-san/GAME-and-VTL-for-CP-M

Although it's a *.com file, so it's going to be bigger than 1kb.

And some extra info:

https://middleriver.chagasi.com/electronics/vtl.html

Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 9:56:14 PM4/21/25

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There's even a Star Trek for it under sample programs.

Is there a way to extract the binary from a .com file? I wonder how large it actually is. This may be a C version of it which of course is going to be bigger than a strictly Z80 assembly one.

Andrew Carr

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Apr 21, 2025, 9:59:05 PM4/21/25

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Take a look at:

https://github.com/akih-san/VTLZ80

Beta Firefox Translation of the README:

About VTL

The author, the legend of the computer legend, "Motorola 6800Legend II Chapter3 Program Reproduction"
VTL is introduced, but it is a very compact interpreter.

Again, T. Mr. Nakagawa wrote in C in the Web "VTL (Very Tiny Language)".
VTL is published.

This time, we made this source work with EMUZ80, SBCZ80, AKI-80, SuperMEZ80.
The C compiler uses SDCC. I wrote the device-dependent part in assembler.
I tried to link it using SDCC, but it didn't work.
I couldn't help it, so I created the assembler sauce of VTL in SDCC and combined it with the assembler source.
The assembler uses Macro Assembler AS V1.42 (http://john.ccac.rwth-aaachen.de:8000/as/).

T. Mr. Nakagawa's Web includes the basic VTLs, implementation methods, and sample pro.
There are grams, etc., so please take a look.

In addition, Mr. Shiropyeong's page "Let's play in super mini language (4) Everyone "Star ☆ Tore" in "Star ☆ Tore"
"STAR TREK" is introduced in the MSX version of VTL.
(I wanted to move this, so I first moved VTL with SBCV20.)

VTL (Very Tiny Language)
http://middleriver.chagasi.com/electronics/vtl.html

・Let's play in super-mini language (4) "Star☆Tre" with everyone
https://ameblo.jp/siropyon/entry-11917965564.html

The source code is license-free.
The original source code is subject to the license agreement of the publisher.
I will.

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Robb Bates

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Apr 21, 2025, 10:12:03 PM4/21/25

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Yeah, it's in C.

But here's the code in 8080.

https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100%20Computers%20and%20Boards/00-MITS/40-Software/VTL-2/Binaries/mitsvtl2.txt

Maybe someone can edit and compile this.

You'll need to relocate it away from $F800 to a better location and then edit the I/O routines to hit the CP/M API.