Cannot Format a CF Card ???

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I followed the directions on the web page:  https://smallcomputercentral.com/installing-cp-m-2-2-with-scm/  

I'm using the format program from:  CPM-A_SCM_Apps-2022-03-23   "CPM-A_SCM_CF_Format_code8000.hex"  

Small Computer Monitor - SC114
*Ready

*
*g 8000
Compact Flash card format v1.1 by Stephen C Cousins

Card at address $10: Compact flash card not present

Card at address $90: Compact flash card not present
*


I'm trying to understand why I cannot format a CF card ???  

.

[michael....@gmail.com]

Hi,

It seems to me that the problem could be with the CF card itself.  I think I recall others having problems with larger capacity CF cards. Do you have a 32 or 64 MB card? My largest card is 128MB, but mostly I use smaller ones. 

Regards,

Mike

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

I tried it with the original 128MB and a 64MB cards that came with all the boards, but I get the same error message.  It seems to be an addressing error or the two CF boards just don't work, but that seems unlikely.   

[michael....@gmail.com]

Hi,

 

I assume you've tried all all 4 expansion sockets on the SC114?  

There aren't any bent pins in the  CF socket?  

Is the IC actually a 74LS138? Can you swop the IC for another? 

Which version of the CF card is it?  I have v1.1 which looks slightly different to yours which I think is v1.0.

Regards,

Mike

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

I think it's something to do with the connectors on the back plane.  When I pulled the board up out of the slot the 

WARNING: Format will erase all data from the card
Do you wish to continue? (Y/N)

appeared on the terminal screen, but I had pulled the board completely out of the socket.  

I then tried to reset the board and it fails until I pull it out of the socket!  

So I started the computer without the CF card board, send the CPM-A file to the computer, run G 8000, then gently touch the board on top of a socket and got the following.  

Small Computer Monitor - SC114
*Ready

*

*G 8000

Compact Flash card format v1.1 by Stephen C Cousins

Card at address $10: Compact flash card not present

Card at address $90: Compact flash card not present

*Card size: 2TB
Number of logical drives to format: 16

WARNING: Format will erase all data from the card
Do you wish to continue? (Y/N)

Formatting drives: A
Time-out error
6Card size: 2TB
Number of logical drives to format: 16

WARNING: Format will erase all data from the card
Do you wish to continue? (Y/N)

Formatting drives: A
Time-out error

Compact Flash card format v1.1 by Stephen C Cousins

Card at address $10: Compact flash card not present

Card at address $90: Compact flash card not present

Small Computer Monitor - SC114
*

[Kande Laber]

I had this problems with one of my 128MB CF cards that I bought second hand. 

I then put the card into my Linux PC connected to a card reader and did a low level format.

After that the card worked ok in the SC114/SC145.

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

I think it's a connection problem, not a CF card problem.  The PINs on the bottom of the CF card board seem to make a connection only when they just barely touch the top of the female header on the SC114 board, but when I press the board deeper into the female header, it seems to lose some contact.  

This problem occurs in all the slots!  

.

[Steve Cousins]

I've not seen any issues with connections in the way you describe them. Perhaps you could post close-up photos of the CF module pins and the bus sockets.

From your earlier photo, I notice your CPU is only rated at 6MHz. It has been reported by others here that the Z80 processor is quite tolerant to overclocking, but I don't think we can rule this out as a possible cause of your problems. While the CPU may work it could be the signal timing is not adequate for some CF cards.

From your terminal output, it appears the software has misidentified the CF card as 2TB in size. I think this is just a symptom of the wider problem you are having.

If your terminal output is complete and exactly as it appears on the screen, I would suggest pulling and pushing the module when the system is running has caused the software to 'crash'. According to the terminal output, events are not happening in the correct sequence.

It looks like you have assembled your SC114 from a kit, except for the Z80 CPU. Is there a story here that might throw some light on your problem?

Steve

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

Yeah, I've had this problem in the pas with the female headers.  I prefer the low profile machined headers as the grab from all around.  

[Tadeusz Pycio]

A rather unusually labelled processor, I thought such labelled processors were turn of the century, and here 2007. I'm also puzzled by that letter B after Z80, which was only used for NMOS processors. Interesting.I haven't seen one yet.

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

I didn’t build any of these boards, I got them from a friend.  This is the initial setup from my friend;  
SC114 v1.0 Z80 Motherboard and Serial IO & Clock
Serial I/O and Clock 33f karlab 

I want to add the  Compact Flash Storage v1.0 with CPM-A image. 

The second build I’m guessing should start with; 
z80 cpu clock and reset Tynemouth
64K RAM RFC2795 Compliant
Pageable ROM RFC2795 Compliant
Storage Module 10e karlab
Dual Serial RFC2795

This is the list of boards I got from my friend;  

BACK PLANES:
·      BackPlane Pro
·      BackPlane-5
·      SC114 v1.0 Z80 Motherboard and Serial IO & Clock

CF CARDS and BOARDS:
·      Storage Module 10e karlab
·      Compact Flash Storage v1.0

RAM & ROM:
·      64K RAM RFC2795 Compliant
·      Pageable ROM RFC2795 Compliant

TERMINALS, SERIAL I/O and Digital I/O:
·      Dual Serial RFC2795
·      Serial I/O and Clock 31e karlab
·      Serial I/O and Clock 33f karlab
·      ESP8266 WiFi Module v1.2 RFC2795 Compliant
·      FTDI 232417A-Y1GB-190219
·      Raspberry Pi Zero Terminal Module v1.2
·      SC129 v1.1 Digital IO

CPU BOARDS:
·      z80 cpu clock and reset Tynemouth
·      Z80 CPU v2.1 RFC2795 Compliant

OTHER PERIPHERAL BOARDS:
·      Dual SN76489 Sound Card Rev1
·      JoyStick
·      SC115 v1.0 Prototype Breakout Module
·      SC115 v1.0 Prototype Breakout Module
·      a CF Card and a PROM R0001009

  

.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:03:30 PM UTC-8 Steve Cousins wrote:

[Steve Cousins]

I'm highly suspicious of that CPU on your SC114 board. I suggest you try swapping the CPU with one from either of your other CPU modules. Alternatively, remove the CPU from SC114 and fit the "Z80 CPU v2.1 RFC2795 Compliant" module to one of SC114's bus sockets.

Also, do you get the same results when using "Storage Module 10e karlab" as your storage module? Note that, if the serial port on module 10e is set for either address 0x80 or 0x40 then SCM will use that port as the primary console instead of the port on SC114. Also, note it will be set for 115200 baud.

Steve

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

I've been "Send file" from TeraTerm to just the SC114 ... dozens of BASIC games to play on the computer.  That works well.  I'm not sure how swapping out the Z80 could make a difference, but I'll give it a try.  

.

[Alan Cox]

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 20:03, Steve Cousins <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've not seen any issues with connections in the way you describe them. Perhaps you could post close-up photos of the CF module pins and the bus sockets.

From your earlier photo, I notice your CPU is only rated at 6MHz. It has been reported by others here that the Z80 processor is quite tolerant to overclocking, but I don't think we can rule this out as a possible cause of your problems. While the CPU may work it could be the signal timing is not adequate for some CF cards.

Z80B should be NMOS and the NMOS processors really don't have enough drive for unbuffered CF adapters. The markings are very weird though - it looks to be CMOS but with Z80B markings which I've never seen before.

On the overclocking - I wouldn not assume that. Processors are binned based on characterisation tests. Processors in the top bin generally overclock well because it's "everything that can do X MHz or better", processors in other bits generally do not because they already tried them at a higher speed and they failed. Not always true with modern runs of older parts because they may sometimes stamp 10MHz parts 8MHz or whatever to fill an order if they don't have enough crap ones.

Given it's 15 years old and oddly marked I have no idea whether that would have been the top bin at the time, but for CMOS I don't think it would.

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

After trying two other Z80 CPUs ... it is still the exact same error messages ??? 

Small Computer Monitor - SC114
*Ready

*
*G 8000
Compact Flash card format v1.1 by Stephen C Cousins

Card at address $10: Compact flash card not present

Card at address $90: Compact flash card not present
*

Small Computer Monitor - SC114

*BASIC

[Steve Cousins]

Unless I've missed something here, you have not determined for sure if the problem is with the SC114, the Compact Flash module, the Compact Flash card, or perhaps even the format utility. Or come to think of it, even the 5-volt supply.

I note you have had the same result with two CF cards but even so, I wouldn't assume the cards are definitely not a factor. 

As you have a good range of backplanes and modules available I think it would be useful to build a system with a different combination of parts and then swap parts until you can pin down the problem to just one item. As things stand there are too many unknowns to determine the cause.

Steve

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

I tried two CF cards ... one that was formatted CPM-B and worked for my friend in the past.  I only have one SC114 board.  the SC114 runs BASIC fine, I can "Send file" from TeraTerm down to the SC114 BASIC and run dozens of programs and games.  

The "CPM-A_SCM_CF_Format_code8000.hex" file I downloaded from the https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-nGLKugvP18k6KBCp9izAIabAUIm48xt/view?usp=sharing

But it's a struggle to figure out how to just download a .zip file when Google Drive opens the thing up and renames file extensions etc.   

Why isn't there just a simple link:  https://smallcomputercentral.com/installing-cp-m-2-2-with-scm/CPM-A.zip ??? 

I did find that if I send the the "CPM-A_SCM_CF_Format_code8000.hex" file to the SC114, then type G 8000 before plugging IN the CF Card board, I can just touch the board connector on top of the female connector on the SC114 and get a message that say's it's ready to format the CF card, but I cannot hold the board steady on top of the PINs.  

The problem seems to be some kind of connection problem.  IF the board is fully connected I can't format the CF card, but if the board is partially connected the computer seems ready to format, but I cannot hold the board steady to complete the format!  

.

[Mark T]

Hot plugging modules on an RC2014 is not a good idea. If you end up connecting signals before power you could damage the ICs.

Did you make sure there are no shorts on the compact flash module? This could be why it doesn’t work when its fully connected.

[r4r...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

The CF card board and card worked before on the SC114 as a CPM-B system before it was mailed to me with a bunch of other boards.  

.