new Riv road bike, and my unwanted input for another

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eric...@gmail.com

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Jul 6, 2009, 7:15:35 PM7/6/09
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This sounds pretty nice (from the keyhole section of the Riv site):

>>>>>>>

We're working on sort-of-a-Ramboiullet replacement, but more of a club-riding bike, so even lighter. It will be called one of these: Rodeo...Roadio...Roadeo. And we'll offer it in your choice of threadless (for most club riders) and threaded (for more traditionalists). No rack braze-ons, light tubes, but still our bike thru & thru, with our lugs, our design and choice of tubing, all that. We'll have the prototype by late July, and Mark will build it up and ride it, since he was the impetus behind it.

>>>>>>>

I was shocked--shocked! when I saw there were to be no rack braze ons, but then I realized it will likely still have fender braze ons. That's fine. I wonder if it will be Taiwanese or Toyo? Expanded or normal?

While I'm doing one of my incredibly infrequent postings, here's a bike I'd like to see:

- Taiwanese Quickbeam replacement (because I'm cheap and I like the sloping/expanded top tube look)
- but with caliper brakes (because I'm tired of cantis in most of my bike history, and it should make the bike a bit cheaper to produce since there are no canti studs to weld on, and there's really no reason now for cantis except when using fat knobby tires)
- and please not light metallic blue (because I really don't like that color)
- and maybe more roadish geometry


Eric D
Dublin OH

rcnute

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Jul 6, 2009, 7:41:55 PM7/6/09
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Cool! That Grant's a tease.

Steve Palincsar

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Jul 6, 2009, 7:59:05 PM7/6/09
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On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 23:15 +0000, eric...@gmail.com wrote:
> This sounds pretty nice (from the keyhole section of the Riv site):
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> We're working on sort-of-a-Ramboiullet replacement, but more of a
> club-riding bike, so even lighter. It will be called one of these:
> Rodeo...Roadio...Roadeo. And we'll offer it in your choice of
> threadless (for most club riders) and threaded (for more
> traditionalists). No rack braze-ons, light tubes, but still our bike
> thru & thru, with our lugs, our design and choice of tubing, all that.
> We'll have the prototype by late July, and Mark will build it up and
> ride it, since he was the impetus behind it.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> I was shocked--shocked! when I saw there were to be no rack braze ons,

There almost were no rack braze-ons on the Rambouillet. I wonder what
Grant means by "light tubes"...

Bill M.

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Jul 6, 2009, 8:42:48 PM7/6/09
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I wonder if it will fit Jack Browns, or be limited to 28's?

On Jul 6, 4:15 pm, ericda...@gmail.com wrote:

James Warren

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Jul 7, 2009, 12:42:40 AM7/7/09
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This is great news. It's the one bike missing in the line-up. I like
the threadless option too. (I've become a
handlebar-2.5-cm-below-the-saddle-guy and no longer care about the ease
of up and down adjustment that the quill offers.)

Jack Browns are by far my favorite tire, but not every ride has to use
them (and maybe this bike will). This is going to be a great bike. (Ask
any Ram, Romulus, Heron Road, Longlow or Riv Road Standard rider. I'm
speculating that this bike will fall somewhere within that spectrum.)

-James

Rocky B

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Jul 7, 2009, 8:45:53 AM7/7/09
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Grant should name the new bike "Arby Juan" :-)

Shaun Meehan

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Jul 7, 2009, 9:44:56 AM7/7/09
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Cool! I've been thinking about buying a "go fast" bike and this would be perfect. I wonder if it will be offered in the full range of sizes like the AHH or if it'll be limited to the middle of the bell curve like the Atlantis is now. I (for one) sure hope they offer it in a 67 or 68 cm. I hope that this bike is successful for RBW. It seems like it should be a welcome addition to their line-up.
 
Shaun Meehan

Seth Vidal

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Jul 7, 2009, 9:52:36 AM7/7/09
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At least from the sales-reports I've heard it sounds like the sam
hillborne has been a rather good success for them. But I like hearing
about new things from riv, too.Their ideas are always interesting and
of course the way they are described is always fun.

-sv

PATRICK MOORE

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Jul 7, 2009, 10:01:16 AM7/7/09
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I think this is great. I commented at some length a year ago or so that the Riv lineup lacks a RB-1 replacement, after the seeming trend toward all rounder type bikes. 

I'm eager to see what this one is like.
--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
Professional Resumes. Contact resumesp...@gmail.com

Steve Park

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Jul 7, 2009, 11:26:27 AM7/7/09
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Yeah, I agree that room for 28's (and fenders) is perfectly adequate.
A classic road bike similar to the RB-1 would be perfect. I think
many, including myself, would be excited to have a true roadie (with
"thin" tires, light tubes, slightly steeper angles and all) built by
Rivendell. Leave the fat-tires and braze-ons to the A Homer Hilsen
and the other versatile bikes in the line-up.

Dustin Sharp

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Jul 7, 2009, 11:57:55 AM7/7/09
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Dunnoh exactly, but aren't the tubes on the Legolas pretty light compared to
other Riv models?

Sounds like a really cool bike--I'll be seriously tempted to get one when it
comes out as I keep wanting a "go fast" bike (even if I know realistically
that it's not going to make me any faster than I am on my Kirk with its
Cantis and Jack Browns).

Dustin "delusions of speed" Sharp
San Diego, CA

CycloFiend

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Jul 7, 2009, 11:59:37 AM7/7/09
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That's really interesting news. I recall when the Rambouillet came out, it
seemed so dramatic to have the clearances that it did. From there, the
evolution of interest in 650B/584 pushed the development of large volume
700C/622 tires, which, in turn gave us the Hilsen. (And from the Hilsen, we
now have the Hillborne, et. al.)

Once the limit stake got driven into the ground with the big clearance frame
with large volume tires, it seems like it let them refine the lineup in the
opposite direction. The idea of a new design, with all that GP has learned
in the ensuing years, will be very exciting to see.

Anyone who has followed this or the iBob list has heard the lamenting at the
"loss" of the Rambouillet. Based on what folks wished for, it seems like
the .... (new design)... will bring all that and a bag of chips.

Darned good news!

- J

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

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"I threw one leg over my battle-scarred all-terrain stump-jumper and rode
several miles to work. I'd sprayed it with some cheap gold paint so it
wouldn't look nice. Locked my bike to a radiator, because you never knew,
and went in."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"

Esteban

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Jul 7, 2009, 1:58:37 PM7/7/09
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Great news. A pure road bike would be perfect.

From the Riv Road and Long Low thinking comes the Ram/Rom/Redwood,
which, like Jim wrote, detours through 650B country bike riding, and
vectors toward the Hilsen, Hillborne --- Atlantis. Now back to a
lugged steel "road" bike for club riding and all business hard
efforts. Kind of makes me want to take the Jack Browns off my Romulus
and put the 28s Paselas back on.

Or, perhaps like Dustin, I'm watching too much of Le Tour.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

On Jul 7, 8:59 am, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> That's really interesting news.  I recall when the Rambouillet came out, it
> seemed so dramatic to have the clearances that it did. From there, the
> evolution of interest in 650B/584 pushed the development of large volume
> 700C/622 tires, which, in turn gave us the Hilsen.  (And from the Hilsen, we
> now have the Hillborne, et. al.)
>
> Once the limit stake got driven into the ground with the big clearance frame
> with large volume tires, it seems like it let them refine the lineup in the
> opposite direction. The idea of a new design, with all that GP has learned
> in the ensuing years, will be very exciting to see.
>
> Anyone who has followed this or the iBob list has heard the lamenting at the
> "loss" of the Rambouillet.  Based on what folks wished for, it seems like
> the .... (new design)... will bring all that and a bag of chips.
>
> Darned good news!
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> Your Photos are needed! - Send them here -http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines

Esteban

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Jul 7, 2009, 2:37:06 PM7/7/09
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How about the Remus? Sting? Route? Sports?

rcnute

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Jul 7, 2009, 3:00:57 PM7/7/09
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Me too. Funny how the desire for skinny tires and low handlebars
seems to spring up this time of year... :)

On Jul 7, 10:58 am, Esteban <Proto...@gmail.com> wrote:

MichaelH

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Jul 7, 2009, 3:41:51 PM7/7/09
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I love my Rambouillet! I can put a small handle bar bag or a decent
size saddle bag and carry quite a bit, but it really shines on the
long club rides in the mountains - comfy, fast, climbs nicely, and
desends fast and steady, great all around road manners. I don't need
a new bike but I'm glad others will have the opportunity to experience
the joy of the pure road bike.
Michael
> > > -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Christopher Paul

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Jul 8, 2009, 9:55:22 AM7/8/09
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Ditto, I love my Ramboiullet too! I use this for all rides, including
fast club rides, centuries and touring (so far a week at a time). The
Ram is not too heavy nor is it too light. I think Grant got it right
with this one. I was surprised when it was taken out of the line up.
I imagine the costs of producing it Japan may have had something to do
with it. The Ram is a lifetime bike! I can't imagine being in the
bike business without having the "Ramboiulett's space" covered.
Cheers!
Chris

Mike

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Jul 8, 2009, 11:09:41 AM7/8/09
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I hope with this new road bike that it'll be a traditional frame like
the Rambouillet or Romulus and not "expanded". I think the expanded
frame totally has a place but so do traditional frames. I wonder how
they'll do the threadless/threaded fork. Does that mean they'll have
two frames made, a threadless with 1 1/8" headtube and a threaded with
a 1" headtube?

As for clearance... Ram clearance would be more than adequate for a
club bike. I'm sure it'll take "standard reach" brakes. I imagine
those new Paul brakes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gzahnd/
3685396099/) will be perfect for this bike.

--mike

CycloFiend

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Jul 8, 2009, 11:25:12 AM7/8/09
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on 7/8/09 8:09 AM, Mike at mjaw...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> I hope with this new road bike that it'll be a traditional frame like
> the Rambouillet or Romulus and not "expanded". I think the expanded
> frame totally has a place but so do traditional frames. I wonder how
> they'll do the threadless/threaded fork. Does that mean they'll have
> two frames made, a threadless with 1 1/8" headtube and a threaded with
> a 1" headtube?

I doubt they'll do two different frames. It would be simpler to simply be
able to swap forks. I'd bet 1 1/8" as 1" t/less is pretty dead.

- J

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

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rode metal. He hadn't liked it when Chevette had gone for a paper frame."
-- William Gibson, "Virtual Light"


Bill Connell

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Jul 8, 2009, 11:44:05 AM7/8/09
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On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM, CycloFiend<cyclo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> on 7/8/09 8:09 AM, Mike at mjaw...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I hope with this new road bike that it'll be a traditional frame like
>> the Rambouillet or Romulus and not "expanded". I think the expanded
>> frame totally has a place  but so do traditional frames. I wonder how
>> they'll do the threadless/threaded fork. Does that mean they'll have
>> two frames made, a threadless with 1 1/8" headtube and a threaded with
>> a 1" headtube?
>
> I doubt they'll do two different frames.  It would be simpler to simply be
> able to swap forks. I'd bet 1 1/8" as 1" t/less is pretty dead.

Kogswell did a frame with a 1" or 9/8" fork option, using a reducer in
the headset for those wanting the 1" threaded option, but it doesn't
seem like Rivendell would go that route.

As much as there is to like about threaded forks and quill stems, i
have to admit that there is a much more solid feel to a threadless
setup. If the new roadie Riv is going threadless, they should consider
bringing back the half-lugged stem they had a while back.

--
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

JL

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Jul 8, 2009, 12:19:33 PM7/8/09
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When I saw this news on the Riv website I was quite pleased. One of
my Rivs is a road standard and I find myself riding it more and more
often these days. My only complaint (if i could even call it that) is
that the clearance is limited - 28mm Paselas with no room for fenders
(I don't really need a bigger tire on this bike but fenders without
heavy mods would be convenient), I could fit a 30mm tire depending on
the brand I suppose, or a 25 with fenders, but it is a wonderful bike
just how it is. This bike is from 1996, and IMHO is an improvement
over the RB-1s that were designed before it. I am very interested to
see what knowledge and design ideas 12 more years(1995/6 to 2009), and
a progression of other bike models has to offer in terms of a quality
"club ride" bike . I am with the "Legolas for the road" crowd in what
I expect to see. Lighter tubing, Standard reach brakes, slightly
steeper geometry, not an expanded frame (they have their value, I just
prefer "standard" geo), two color paint (I hope), Threadless option is
a good move too.

Jason

Jeremy Till

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Jul 8, 2009, 12:32:13 PM7/8/09
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Even if it's "dead" 1" threadless is pretty easy to do- most 1 1/8"
stems come with a shim for 1" and then all you need is spacers and a
headset, which i'm sure Riv could source easily (i think Ritchey makes
one?). Definitely easier than trying to make a threaded setup work
with a 1 1/8" headtube.

I love this category of bikes- "common sense" road bikes. Excited to
see what GP comes up with!

-Jeremy "Owner of Two 1" Threadless Bikes" Till

On Jul 8, 8:25 am, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> on 7/8/09 8:09 AM, Mike at mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I hope with this new road bike that it'll be a traditional frame like
> > the Rambouillet or Romulus and not "expanded". I think the expanded
> > frame totally has a place  but so do traditional frames. I wonder how
> > they'll do the threadless/threaded fork. Does that mean they'll have
> > two frames made, a threadless with 1 1/8" headtube and a threaded with
> > a 1" headtube?
>
> I doubt they'll do two different frames.  It would be simpler to simply be
> able to swap forks. I'd bet 1 1/8" as 1" t/less is pretty dead.
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com

Esteban

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Jul 8, 2009, 1:01:56 PM7/8/09
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The clearances on the Ram/Rom were about perfect for a road bike -
23mm if you like, 27/28mm as road default, but the ability to fit a 35
(or 37) in there if need be. This makes your road bike "expand-
able" (not *that* kind of expanded) into a great trail bike or even
cyclocross (if you don't have a Legolas in your closet). The Jack
Browns I have on the bike now have taken me over all kinds of terrain,
including singletrack, thanks to David's gutsy Redlands routes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/3683083953/

Esteban

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Jul 8, 2009, 1:09:21 PM7/8/09
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Didn't mean to move too far in to Hilsen terrain, there - road
geometry, please. I just like the clearances on the Ram/Rom - and
those Paul prototypes sound pretty darn cool.

Forrest

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Jul 8, 2009, 1:09:33 PM7/8/09
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Call it "Roadio Flyer." Wonder what the lawyers would do with that?
-- Forrest (Iowa City)

Bruce

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Jul 8, 2009, 1:48:51 PM7/8/09
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How about  the "Roadie - 1."  Then you can abbv it RD-1 instead of the Bstone RB-1...


From: Forrest <ftm...@me.com>
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:09:33 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: new Riv road bike, and my unwanted input for another

Dustin Sharp

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Jul 8, 2009, 1:14:58 PM7/8/09
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I think the things that would really make this a "road bike" to me are:

--steeper angles up front, shorter chainstays out back, and a lighter
tubeset.

IF you make the tubeset as light as it should be, the bike will ride like
poop with a rack and moderate load. So limiting things to fender mounts
seems sensible.

Tighter clearances for brakes and tires are an aesthetic must for some--they
make the bike look racey--but it's hard to see how they really make the bike
feel more racy once you put some nice 25s on there and are actually riding
it. I think clearance for 28s + fenders would be about perfect.

Dustin


> From: Esteban <Prot...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:01:56 -0700 (PDT)
> To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [RBW] Re: new Riv road bike, and my unwanted input for another
>
>

BPu...@aol.com

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Jul 8, 2009, 2:01:02 PM7/8/09
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Whatever it's named - it's exciting news. Can't wait to see it.
Bill
Louisville, Ky
 
 
In a message dated 7/8/2009 1:56:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fully...@yahoo.com writes:
How about  the "Roadie - 1."  Then you can abbv it RD-1 instead of the Bstone RB-1...

Mike

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Jul 8, 2009, 2:06:31 PM7/8/09
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I like that. Or even RBW-R. Some variation on the RB-1 name would be
good.

On Jul 8, 10:48 am, Bruce <fullylug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> How about  the "Roadie - 1."  Then you can abbv it RD-1 instead of the Bstone RB-1...
>
> ________________________________
> From: Forrest <ftme...@me.com>

Gino Zahnd

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Jul 8, 2009, 2:09:39 PM7/8/09
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I have a reliable source* that tells me it'll be 1" for both. And a
shim + 1 1/8th stem for the threadless version. There are several
sources for shims, etc. I have a lot of interest in this bike due to
its "fragile" tubing (I weigh 135lbs), and there seem to still be a
good number of 1" threadless high end stems around as well. The stem
thing doesn't worry me.

And yep, standard reach brakes. Optimal/designed tire size is 30-33mm
(think JB Green, Schwalbe Marathon Racer, etc.), but 25 or 35 will
work too. Shorter than Ram chainstays, but not race short. No rack
mounts.

The upcoming Paul lightweight medium reach centerpull will be quite
nice for sure, and the Tektro & Shimano standards might be a bit less
sweater-vesty for those looking to appear sporty.

Maybe Grant or John can chime in here to quell any rumors.

As for names, I have my opinions, but they do not matter. :-)

Thanks,
Gino

*Grant Petersen

Seth Vidal

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Jul 8, 2009, 2:13:22 PM7/8/09
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On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Gino Zahnd<gino...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a reliable source* that tells me it'll be 1" for both.  And a
> shim + 1 1/8th stem for the threadless version. There are several
> sources for shims, etc.  I have a lot of interest in this bike due to
> its "fragile" tubing (I weigh 135lbs), and there seem to still be a
> good number of 1" threadless high end stems around as well. The stem
> thing doesn't worry me.
>
> And yep, standard reach brakes.  Optimal/designed tire size is 30-33mm
> (think JB Green, Schwalbe Marathon Racer, etc.), but 25 or 35 will
> work too.  Shorter than Ram chainstays, but not race short. No rack
> mounts.
>
> The upcoming Paul lightweight medium reach centerpull will be quite
> nice for sure, and the Tektro & Shimano standards might be a bit less
> sweater-vesty for those looking to appear sporty.
>
> Maybe Grant or John can chime in here to quell any rumors.
>

I'd love to see some pictures of the brand-v bags, if anyone has any
secret insider pictures.

a teaser with a 10-day wait time is just evil. :)

-sv

James Warren

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Jul 8, 2009, 3:28:03 PM7/8/09
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In the spirit of a bike that will be welcoming on FRIENDLY and athletic
club rides, I would like to recommend the name "Compadre".

-James

d2mini

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Jul 8, 2009, 5:16:51 PM7/8/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
I like this idea, too!
I'm building up a weekend roadie bike now and had a HECK of a time
finding a road frame that would take 28mm tires!
It was pretty much impossible.
I finally settled on a Tommasini Sintesi, ordered direct from their
factory in Italy.
They recommend 25's, but i found that I could just barely squeeze 28's
in there. No fenders of course.
I'm almost done building it up but here's their website
www.ridetommasini.com
At least it has lugs!!! :D

Here's a pic of my frame from the day it arrived...
http://d2creative.smugmug.com/photos/524352096_STQND-O.jpg

I would definitely be interested in a new road frame from Riv.

Dan Abelson

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Jul 8, 2009, 7:06:11 PM7/8/09
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I think the frame is a great idea.  The one thing that I would like to see on such a frame is stops for downtube shifters.  Some of Rivendell recent offerings have been trending away from this but I think on a go fast bike for riers who are not using STI they are an essential option.

Dan Abelson
St. Paul, MN

Mike

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Jul 8, 2009, 7:11:00 PM7/8/09
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Agreed. DT shifter mounts are essential.

Bruce

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Jul 8, 2009, 7:35:18 PM7/8/09
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This isn't EXACTLY the list to suggest this, but you can fit 37s in a true crit design steel race frame, IF you do a 650B conversion. I know, I'm running them now. Generally, when I go from 700 to 650B, I run 32s (Maxy Fasty or Cypres).


From: d2mini <d2cre...@gmail.com>

PATRICK MOORE

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Jul 8, 2009, 7:35:24 PM7/8/09
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It's too bad that the LORT names are no longer available, but I'd
suggest something like "Glamdring": or "Orcrist" -- it's really not
the thing to be too obviously nice, you know. Nice, yes, obvious, no.
And serious, yes. There is that rightfully deprecatory term, "the unco
guid" -- see Bobby Burns.

I don't like the "Rodeo" name; let's hope Grant comes up with
something a little more stylish in the customary Riv vein. What about
the Normand, after Jacques?
--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
Professional Resumes. Contact resumesp...@gmail.com

Dustin Sharp

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Jul 8, 2009, 7:43:28 PM7/8/09
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Too bad Quickbeam is already taken. This really will be the "hasty Ent" of
the Riv lineup.

Dustin


> From: PATRICK MOORE <bert...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

James Warren

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Jul 8, 2009, 8:45:51 PM7/8/09
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Using Middle Earth names, they could go with Haldir. Or Glorfindel. He
wasn't in the movie. (Haldir was.)

Christopher Paul

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Jul 9, 2009, 12:09:46 AM7/9/09
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Assuming that this bike is worthy of "stealing hearts", how about a
classy French name, like "Rogue" ?

TJ Ramb

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Jul 9, 2009, 12:10:14 AM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
what was wrong with the rambi- it did all the new frame is offering
and more!
sure take the weight down a bit - outsource it - but try to keep the
versatility and neutral handling, or at least let it take at at least
32c with fenders.

and make it a really bright metallic blue --LOL

BrianMcG

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Jul 9, 2009, 8:37:47 AM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
I can't wait. Maybe in a few years they will offer a carbon
version. :)

On Jul 8, 1:48 pm, Bruce <fullylug...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> How about  the "Roadie - 1."  Then you can abbv it RD-1 instead of the Bstone RB-1...
>
> ________________________________
> From: Forrest <ftme...@me.com>

CycloFiend

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Jul 9, 2009, 10:28:24 AM7/9/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
on 7/8/09 11:09 AM, Gino Zahnd at gino...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> I have a reliable source* that tells me it'll be 1" for both. And a
> shim + 1 1/8th stem for the threadless version. There are several
> sources for shims, etc. I have a lot of interest in this bike due to
> its "fragile" tubing (I weigh 135lbs), and there seem to still be a
> good number of 1" threadless high end stems around as well. The stem
> thing doesn't worry me.

FWIW - I was referring more to the dearth of 1" threadless headsets.
Although, I _do_ seem to have one of those left over from the my last CX
frame.... And then I could use my Nitto stem again...
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cx/images/cx001r2-5.jpg

Oh, man... I think I better start selling some things.

- Jim

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com


Current Classics - Cross Bikes
Singlespeed - Working Bikes

Get your photos posted: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines

"Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and
just like that I knew it was dead"

-- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life"

Grantm...@gmail.com

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Jul 9, 2009, 5:21:56 PM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
Newlite Roadbike. The ROADEO <---final name, final spelling, thanks
for all your input and don't take offense.

This is really Mark's bike, by which I mean he asked for it/suggested
it as a bike for clubbies. He's a club rider a couple of days a week,
and rides his cross bikes--which to me are light enough, at 19-20lb,
even with fatty tires (and he's still the fastest by a good margin,
and the humblest). But he sees his fellow clubbies buying road bikes
with carbon this and that, and was thinking hmm, they should get a
nice lugged steel bike, and if we made it light enough and roadynuff
they probably would.
Originally,'twas gunnabe for short reach brakes, but nobody here
really rides with those anymore, so, with some input from Jay's,
they'll use standard reach brakes, which means...about 56mm reach,
about like the 'bouillet.
TUBING: The goal is a clubbie bike, so it's going to be clubbie light,
and it should, ideally, be ridding by somebody who is, if not clubbie
light, at least knows how to ride light. A Nureyev-like 225-pounder
who lifts over bumps and veers around pothholes and rides 32mm tires
at 85psi rides lighter than a Nagurski-like 150-pounder who rides 23mm
tires at 115psi and hits everything with a stiff body and locked arms.
So, it's hard to give this bike a weight limit. I should point out
that you aren't buying an engine with this bike; you're supplying the
engine, and it's good to somewhat match the engine's weight with the
frame's weight.
OK: Up to 57cm, the main tube butts are 0.65, with 0.4 bellies. Bigger
than that, 0.8 butts with 0.6 bellies. It's superstrong heat-treated
steel, so strength isn't much of an issue. Flex is more of an issue,
but nobody really anymore believes that flexless frames are the goal
(I never have). A more rigid frame matters if you're toting weight,
but not as much if you aren't, and as we introduce this as a
superlight clubbie-bike, its flex-under-a-touring-load shouldn't
matter.

NEW SS bike (QB's replacement): The name is locked in, we have the
artwork, and I'm reluctant to throw it out there at this point, but
Gino knows, and if you can pry it from him (he loves the name, I'm
happy to say!), more power to you. It's a simple name, a humble name
that befits the bike.

It will be virtually the same geo as a QB, which seems to be able to
handle any road and nearly any trail just fine. The same 2-deg
upslope. It will be simplified and downpriced accordingly. Still
cantilevers, although a case can be made for sidepulls. But cantis it
is, and they're good, you know.
------
We are getting a new shipment of Atlantis frames in mid-August, and if
you've ever wanted one, and you can barely afford it, this might be a
good time to buy. They're still built in Japan by Toyo, but Toyo's
prices have climbed, and the US dollar has fallen, to the point where
something's got to change, and it will. Not sure what yet, but it is
truly a good time to buy the Atlantis.

-----
The economy is stressing everybody out. We are doing OK, not great,
but better than some, and for that I can't complain. Your purchases
mean everything. They are all that keeps us going. I hope we can
continue to make things you need and like. Thanks.

G

Aaron Thomas

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Jul 9, 2009, 7:08:25 PM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
Very interesting info on the new clubbie!

The tubing appears to be even slightly lighter than the much-loved
Columbus EL-OS (.7/.4/.7).

Just out of curiosity, how does the tubing differ from that used in
the old RB-1 and RB-2 bikes? What were the butts and bellies used back
then? And for comparison's sake, what tubing was used for the
Romulus?

Also, do you plan to optimize the handling around a certain tire size?
From personal experience, I find that my Romulus handles best with
700x27 or 28. With anything larger the steering feels sluggish, while
with narrower tires, the handling quickens considerably, but sometimes
feels erratic, and is something I continually wrestle with since my
preferred tire for fast club rides happens is a 25mm Michelin Pro
Race. (I haven't even dared try a 23mm!)

"Mark's bike" sounds intriguing, despite what I view as an unfortunate
the name choice. No offense, but I was hoping for a moniker less
cutesy, or at least without the wrangler connotations.

Aaron

cyclofiend

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Jul 9, 2009, 8:08:55 PM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
On Jul 9, 4:08 pm, Aaron Thomas <aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The tubing appears to be even slightly lighter than the much-loved
> Columbus EL-OS (.7/.4/.7).
>
> Just out of curiosity, how does the tubing differ from that used in
> the old RB-1 and RB-2 bikes? What were the butts and bellies used back
> then? And for comparison's sake, what tubing was used for the
> Romulus?

Romulus, I believe used the same tubing as the Rambouillet:
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/rambflyer/14.html

There's also more Romulus/Rambouillet contrasting here:
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus

I think we had a discussion of B'stone tubing spec's before, but
haven't gone looking for it.
You might check the iBob archives - it was probably over there.

http://search.bikelist.org/

- Jim "brief post cuz I'm working..."

Rocky B

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Jul 9, 2009, 9:24:07 PM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
Besides the name. I wonder how more different the new SS bike will be
compared to the current Quickbeam?

TJ Ramb

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Jul 9, 2009, 11:11:28 PM7/9/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
I get it now - Marc is a clubby but not in the club so to speak.
Just hate to see the loss of versatility in the Rambi and ALL the
other Riv bikes past and present.
But being able to take even to 32c tires would see it do more than a
modern road bike and not tread to heavily on the toes on either it's
Rivish or Carbonesq bretheren

I'd certainly like artful roadbike, there's always room for one more.
so Bring it on ,

Perhaps it could be called the Arty (Arthur) Tarmac

Now to get shipping to Australia to something reasonable ..........

Mike

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Jul 10, 2009, 1:07:30 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
Did Grant hint a while back to a economical singlespeed called The
Simpleton?

Esteban

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Jul 10, 2009, 2:22:35 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
Bravo, Grant.

Singolo, maybe? Roadeo will catch on. Sounds perfect.

JGS

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Jul 10, 2009, 8:43:13 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
Sounds like you're about to put the Atlantis to "sleep." I hope not!
To me, it's the ultimate Riv bike. Truly capable of doing anything.
It's not a middle of the road, good at doing a lot of things type of
all-around bike that's become popular now like the Velo Orange bikes
or the Homer Hilsen. You can really build it up to do almost anything
except downhill racing. And it's sturdy enough to be real urban city
bike which is unusual amongst these all-around bikes. Plus, and I
know some won't like this, I have an Atlantis because I really
actually wanted to buy one bike that I could have for the rest of my
life. (I'm not saying i won't have others along the way.) No matter
how much you love 650b, and I don't mind it, if you're buying a bike
to have for the rest of your life, you should buy one with a more
common wheel size in my opinion.

I guess it's too expensive to keep making it at Toyo, so why not make
the Atlantis 3, a taiwanese made version?

Mike

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Jul 10, 2009, 9:06:53 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
I agree, it would be a very sad day to see the Atlantis put to sleep.
Hopefully that won't happen. That said, I'd love to see a Taiwanese
version of it. But then again they have the Hillborne. Who knows what
the future holds, perhaps the economy will change and the Toyo frames
will be more affordable.

--mike

JoelMatthews

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Jul 10, 2009, 9:28:17 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
> No matter how much you love 650b, and I don't mind it, if you're buying a bike
> to have for the rest of your life, you should buy one with a more
> common wheel size in my opinion.

I don't think getting 650b tires will be much of a problem as long we
have the internet. In fact, bike tire companies are increasingly
adding 650b tires to their line ups. You may never want to take a
650b on tour in Africa or Central Asia (at least not without a ready
source of replacement tires). Otherwise, even if your LBS refuses to
carry 650b, replacements are only an internet order away. If you are
real worried about replacements, just buy ten or so pair and keep them
in cool dark place. If you are over 30 and maintain your bike, that
should last you a life time.

Matthew Z.

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Jul 10, 2009, 2:32:53 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
All,

How about North Road, High Road, or Open Road? Wait, wasn't it
supposed to contain the word Rodeo? Uh-oh. I would lean toward terms
that meant companion or traveler, myself. Wanderer would suit me fine
as a name.

Let's stay away from Roadmaster, though :D

Time to search for terms that bring the Old West to mind. There are
plenty of great synonyms out there for the cowboy, as well. Would
even focus on his horse - Palomino, anyone? I wouldn't mind Vaquero,
or Gaucho, either

Cheers,

Matthew Z

Patrick in VT

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Jul 10, 2009, 10:16:46 AM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
On Jul 10, 8:43 am, JGS <jonat...@jonfipro.com> wrote:
> And it's sturdy enough to be real urban city
> bike which is unusual amongst these all-around bikes.<  

how so? i think every bike Riv offers is "sturdy." as far as "real
urban city" riding (??) is concerned, i'd be more concerned with a
strong wheelset - every frame riv offers is bomber.

anyway, the Atlantis is a touring rig - yes, i know, it can do more
than that. but, if you're using an Atlantis on a club ride or
commuting with a light or even medium load, then you're riding a bike
that's overbuilt.

please read that for what it is. i'm not saying that you can't do it
- only that it's overbuilt for those purposes.

hence the reason for an offering like the Roadeo - which is very
exciting. can't wait to see it!

JGS

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Jul 10, 2009, 12:12:34 PM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
I guess I was being a bit provocative. You're probably right and any
well built steel frame will do pretty well in most urban
environments. But here's what I think about: I ride my bike for
transportation everyday in New York City. I lean it up against poles;
I lock it on the street; people knock it over; I carry it up my stairs
where it gets banged a bit; I have to carry it through two annoying
springloaded swinging doors every time I enter my building. I don't
have a ding or a dent in the Atlantis but I won't be surprised if I
get one one day. Don't get me wrong, I take precious care of my bike,
but I mean for it to be ridden and I live in a pretty rough place to
ride a bike. Also, no matter how skilled or light a rider you are,
you're going to hit some holes hard when riding around NYC. If you
try to go around them you'll get run over and and I'm just not skilled
enough to hop them with a 7 pound chain in a rear basket (or without
the chain for that matter). So is the Atlantis overbuilt for that
use? I dunno. But I do feel like it's more likely to still be doing
that same thing 25 years from now than some other well built steel
bikes. So I agree, it's probably overbuilt for club rides, but I
don't think its overbuilt for me to do long rides out of the city or
laps around the park because I'm not racing or even trying to keep up
with anyone. I do have a lighter bike that I use for the laps and
thats a nice luxury. But for commuting where I commute I just don't
think its overbuilt. The 1.5 inch tires soak up the bumps with room
to spare, plus the more upright position let's me see what going on
around me. And when I want to go to the grocery store and load up a
basket and backpack full of groceries I don't think twice about it.
All on the same bike! I'm sure a Sam Hilborne or a Cross Check or an
old steel bike would do fine, but the Atlantis is close to what I
think of as perfect for this type of riding.

Actually, as I read over this, here's my vote for the next riv bike
after the Roadeo. How about the Riv Urban bike? In fact, I've always
been a bit resentful of the terms "Country Bike." Why is a sturdy
bike with biggish wheels and fenders supposed to be ridden in the
country??

James Warren

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Jul 10, 2009, 1:18:37 PM7/10/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

On Jul 10, 2009, at 5:43 AM, JGS wrote:
> I guess it's too expensive to keep making it at Toyo, so why not make
> the Atlantis 3, a taiwanese made version?


That would be good. I'd go so far to say that to keep the Atlantis
alive, it would be good to absorb the Hillborne line into
Taiwan-Atlantis line in the same way that the Saluki was absorbed into
the AHH. It wouldn't be identical, since the Saluki/AHH discrepancy was
more clear-cut based on wheel-size, but the point here is that if cuts
need to made, do everything possible to keep Atlantis name alive, even
if it means letting the name Sam Hillborne become one of those
shortlived things in Rivendell history (just the name, not many of the
bike's characteristics).

If Atlantis production were to get moved to Taiwan and some things
about the bike got less fancy, I really hope that they keep its name
the same. The Atlantis is a known product, a classic, an outstanding
bike, perhaps the Rivendell flagship.

If one bike had to replace both Sam and the current Atlantis, let it
have Atlantis-strong tubes, Atlantis clearance, perhaps the Hillborne
expanded geometry (or not), and the name Atlantis. That would be A-OK.

Other bike brands' models have undergone more radical changes than that.

-James

James Warren

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Jul 10, 2009, 1:38:09 PM7/10/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sorry, for the posting inefficiency here, but I want to add to my
comments below the underscore that all of what I said is my opinion if
economic realities make such cuts necessary. Without that condition, it
may sound like I'm poo-poo-ing the Hillborne too much in advocating
that its line be cut in favor of the Atlantis brand. Poo-poo-ing the
Hillborne wasn't my intention. I've test-ridden the Hillborne. It's a
home run, and if I didn't already have a bike of that style, I would
have been one of the first buyers.

I would love to see a world where Rivendell could offer Sam Hillborne
and an Atlantis and a Rambouillet and a canti-Rom and an AHH and a
Roadeo and a Quickbeam and a Bombadil and a resurrected MTB like the
1991 MB-4, and all of these models in sizes that fit everybody.

-James

Mike

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Jul 10, 2009, 2:53:11 PM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
"I would love to see a world where Rivendell could offer Sam
Hillborne
and an Atlantis and a Rambouillet and a canti-Rom and an AHH and a
Roadeo and a Quickbeam and a Bombadil and a resurrected MTB like the
1991 MB-4, and all of these models in sizes that fit everybody. "


Wouldn't that be great. Still, I think Rivendell is doing an excellent
job with what sounds like limited resources.

--mike

Patrick in VT

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Jul 10, 2009, 3:32:33 PM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch
On Jul 10, 12:12 pm, JGS <jonat...@jonfipro.com> wrote:
> I ride my bike for transportation everyday in New York City

yeah, I don't miss that. i did time in the Bronx. it's hard to keep
a pristine bike there! good for you for riding it though, despite the
obvious perils.

> Also, no matter how skilled or light a rider you are,
> you're going to hit some holes hard when riding around NYC.<

that was my point about having a strong wheelset for urban riding - i
don't think super stout frame is a necessity. a frame with clearance
for fat tires (which the Atlantis has in abundance), yes - that
certainly helps with the potholes.

> But I do feel like it's more likely to still be doing
> that same thing 25 years from now than some other well built steel
> bikes.

that's all that matters, man! it's great to have confidence in a
bike.

> The 1.5 inch tires soak up the bumps with room
> to spare, plus the more upright position let's me see what going on
> around me. And when I want to go to the grocery store and load up >a basket and backpack full of groceries I don't think twice about >it. All on the same bike!

I don't think this is unique to the Atlantis. at all. In fact, what
you're describing sounds like any number of mountain/touring bikes set-
up for commuting. The only potential advantage the Atlantis would
have is superior handling at speed with a big load - and in the city,
I don't think that's an issue. or maybe it is? handling is
debatable, nonetheless.

one disadvantage that I see is drivetrain - with the amount of
jostling and potential for abuse that you described, derailer damage
seems inevitable. This is why many folks do the IG (if you need
gears) or ss thing in the city - something the Atlantis wasn't
designed for.

in any event, don't get me wrong - it's clear that the Atlantis serves
the "urban riding" purpose well, in addition to being a fine touring
bike.

>How about the Riv Urban bike?

sounds like two already exist - the Atlantis and the Bombadil.

Steve Palincsar

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Jul 10, 2009, 4:01:50 PM7/10/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

Advertising that brings the Old West to mind... OK, here it is, perhaps
the most significant ad ever. June 1923, and nothing's been the same
since.

> SOMEWHERE west of Laramie there's a bronco-busting girl who knows what
> I’m talking about. She can tell what a sassy pony, that’s a cross
> between greased lighting and the place where it hits, can do with
> eleven hundred pounds of steel and action when he's going high, wide
> and handsome. The truth is - the Playboy was built for her. Built for
> the lass whose, face is brown with the sun when the day is done of
> revel and romp and race. She loves the cross of the wild and the tame.
> There's a savor of links about that car - of laughter and lilt and
> light - a hint of old loves - and saddle and quirt. It’s a brawny
> thing - yet a graceful thing for the sweep o' the Avenue. Step into
> the Playboy when the hour grows dull with things gone dead and stale.
> Then start for the land of real living with the spirit of the lass who
> rides, lean and rangy, into the red horizon of a Wyoming twilight.
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Jordancarad.jpg/444px-Jordancarad.jpg

Gino Zahnd

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Jul 10, 2009, 4:27:59 PM7/10/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
You guys did see that the final name and final spelling, of the
upcoming road bike is Roadeo, right?

Seth Vidal

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Jul 10, 2009, 4:46:46 PM7/10/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Patrick in VT<psh...@drm.com> wrote:
>
> one disadvantage that I see is drivetrain - with the amount of
> jostling and potential for abuse that you described, derailer damage
> seems inevitable.  This is why many folks do the IG (if you need
> gears) or ss thing in the city - something the Atlantis wasn't
> designed for.


The atlantis can take a nexus or a rohloff - you just need the special washers.


-sv

Patrick in VT

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Jul 10, 2009, 6:23:25 PM7/10/09
to RBW Owners Bunch


On Jul 10, 4:46 pm, Seth Vidal <skvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The atlantis can take a nexus or a rohloff - you just need the special washers.

yes, and probably a tensioner too. i know it can be done. my point
was that the Atlantis wasn't specifically designed for that - which in
the context of a discussion around "purpose" built bikes seemed
relevant.

Ray Shine

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Jul 10, 2009, 6:58:03 PM7/10/09
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

That's a silly name, even for rivendell.

Sent From My iPhone

Anne Paulson

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Jul 10, 2009, 11:07:07 PM7/10/09