Clem H + Xtracycle

[Bones]

Not sure if this has been discussed here or not, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this. I spent all of last year carrying both of my kids on my Appaloosa (one in front, one in back). They are getting too big for that setup now. Though I can still handle the bike with ease, I think 80lbs is a bit too much for the bike, and it is only going to get worse. So my options, so far as I can see, are the following:

1) Get a bike trailer (Burley or Thule or whatnot)

2) Big Dummy or Big Fat Dummy.

3) Add an Xtracycle to my Clem H

I like the idea of using the Clem the most because I really don't want to bring another bike or trailer into the house if I can help it, and I really like the Clem. So far it has been used as a trail bike, and with a few small children around, that means it doesn't get used that often. And that is a job my Appaloosa can easily fill. I have no experience with the Xtracycle leap kit though, so any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated!

[J Imler]

Due to Clem’s extra length chain stays, I don’t think an extra cycle would fit.

[David B]

Xtracycle is possible!

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-0wCPDA_YV/

[J Imler]

Wow, amazing. My experience was with the original Xtracycle. The Leap version appears to have added a long chainstay solution.

[Eric Daume]

I think that’s longer than my tandem!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/680171e7-a4cb-4f96-b61a-aa2c9b1801d9%40googlegroups.com.

[lconley]

Seems like a lot of trouble to get a rear disc on your Appaloosa.

Laing

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 2:18:12 PM UTC-4, Eric Daume wrote:

I think that’s longer than my tandem!

On Thursday, April 16, 2020, David B <daba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Xtracycle is possible!

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-0wCPDA_YV/

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 10:31:28 AM UTC-5, Bones wrote:

Not sure if this has been discussed here or not, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this. I spent all of last year carrying both of my kids on my Appaloosa (one in front, one in back). They are getting too big for that setup now. Though I can still handle the bike with ease, I think 80lbs is a bit too much for the bike, and it is only going to get worse. So my options, so far as I can see, are the following:

1) Get a bike trailer (Burley or Thule or whatnot)

2) Big Dummy or Big Fat Dummy.

3) Add an Xtracycle to my Clem H

I like the idea of using the Clem the most because I really don't want to bring another bike or trailer into the house if I can help it, and I really like the Clem. So far it has been used as a trail bike, and with a few small children around, that means it doesn't get used that often. And that is a job my Appaloosa can easily fill. I have no experience with the Xtracycle leap kit though, so any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Gabriel Bruguier]

I haven't had experience with the Xtracycle Leap kit, but I did use the Free Radical kit quite extensively.  Once I gave a friend who weighs ~90 lbs a ride on the back and it was dangerous and scary.  All the twist and flex in the back sent the front end to and fro unpredictably.  Pedaling a straight line was practically impossible.   Although that was an extreme case, IME ~30 lbs loads were the limit, after which the bike would become too wobbly.  I've heard that the Leap is more rigid than the Free Radical, but I am skeptical that the improvements are such that they beat an actual cargo frame like the BD or BFD in terms of rigidity.  

After that experience I got a BFD-- the 26" fat tire version.  The first thing I did was give a friend, ~150 lbs, a ride around the parking lot, and though there was some wobble it was manageable, and I could pedal a straight line.  I've attached a photo of ~60 lbs of cargo, which I pedaled trouble free around 2.5 miles home.  

So my suggestions for increased safety would be a BFD or BD over the Xtracycle.  

I don't have enough experience with bike trailers to offer any suggestions.

[Jeremy Till]

Which size is your Clem H? Since the chainstay lengths vary by size, how much flex you will get with a Leap attached would probably vary. The 45cm one probably isn't that different from the old MTB's that Xtracycle attachments work best with. The 52 and 59 are quite a bit longer, making a really long bike with quite a bit of flex if you were to add a Xtracycle kit to it.

I own both a 59cm Clem H and an Xtracycle Edgerunner (another great cargo bike option to consider) and like to point out with humor that the Clem is only an inch or two shorter overall than the Edgerunner.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

[Bones]

Mine is a 59. And yes thanks for the feedback on the ride quality. I’ve read similar things in the past. Part of the reason I was thinking of using the Clem is because it is a nice sturdy frame. But those chainstays are looooong, and I can’t imagine that is ideal. Maybe a new bike is in store after all. I just cringe thinking about having to part with my Clem or Appaloosa.

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

I toyed with this idea a few months ago. Ended up finding an Xtracycle conversion on Craigslist for $300 attached to an old generic MTB-ish thing, very Clem like in geometry without the long chainstays so I'm just using that for the kid taxing and cargo hauling. 

Anyway, someone else on here (Hi, Ed!) who had built up a Clem-Xtracycle DM'd the below to me. He had tons of experience with different cargo bikes and his thoughts are below. 

Short version: It worked brilliantly and he fully recommended it. 

Long version (quoting from Ed here on out): "I "salvaged" a Leap kit off of a Tern Cargo Node, so it's not quite the retail kit but close enough. I've had a Dummy, a 1st gen Edgerunner, and Tern Cargo Node. I really liked the Dummy (regret selling it to this day...) since it was a solid bike that rode well with or without a load. The Edgerunner was a disappointment: a bit too flexy in the wrong places, and pretty "dead" for a cromoly frame. I could never get the fit of the Tern right with that weird Andros stem and the ride was dead too, though as a cargo bike it was serviceable.

The Clem build up wasn't too dramatic. The long chain stays aren't a problem. I wanted to run the "shorter" wheelbase slot on the leap but that didn't work the way the dropouts are on the Clem. The rear dropouts do work with the "long" wheelbase option on the Leap without interference, and I didn't find the bike any more unwieldy than the other longtails I've owned. Having a kickstand plate is an advantage and relieves stress on the top of the chain stay tubes. You're already familiar with the "mullet" wheelset I had built up: front rim hub, rear disc hub, using rim compatible Sun Rhyno XL rims F/R. For brakes, I ran BB7 and stock pads with a 180mm rear disc - with a load, 160mm may be too small - and Shimano V-brakes up front with Kool Stop pads. As with any longtail build, I used a full run housing to the rear derailleur and brake. Compressionless is best but super expensive so I used the pro version of Jagwire housing as an affordable alternative. (https://jagwire.com/products/housing)

The built up bike was brilliant. It had all the characteristics of the Dummy in terms of handling with or without a load, but with a step thru/lower standover frame and a more upright, and comfortable, riding position. (I'd recommend the Clem L over the Cheviot for the lower standover.) The mullet brakes are as weird as you'd expect - different modulations - but easy to get used to and always plenty of stopping power.

Eventually, I did take it apart to sell the Cargo Node as a complete bike. I would have opted to get the retail Leap kit and rebuilt the Clem L but I am an old man with twins so opted for a cargo e-bike instead."

[Robert Tilley]

That wasn't my experience with the Xtracycle cargo bikes. I owned a Big Dummy for a number of years and then sold that in order to buy a Tern Cargo Node which used the Xtracycle Leap kit. Both of these rode very well even with heavy loads.

I did use wideloaders or U-bars on my bikes and kept the heavier items as low as possible which may have helped. Now I'm using a Tern GSD but I do miss the longer Xtracycle cargo area. If I had room I'd have a Big Fat Dummy for sure.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device

From: gbru...@gmail.com Sent: April 17, 2020 9:17 AM To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com Reply-to: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Clem H + Xtracycle

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/081b73b1-2d0e-4557-b95e-636b8012b481%40googlegroups.com.

[Bones]

Wow, lots of useful info, thanks everyone. I'm as confused as ever on which way to go though :)

Now I'm wondering how the an xtracycle would work on my Appaloosa. The chainstays are a little bit shorter and it's a double top tube so that could only help with stability. To date that bike has been the heavy lifter anyway. The only real appeal of the the leap kit is to save some money and not add another bike to my collection. A BD of BFD would certainly be the best way to go. One last option is a 10 year old Novara 29'er that's been sleeping in my shed for a few years. It's in great shape, and I was intending to offload that at some point, but maybe that would make a good candidate for a conversion. Bottom line is the cargo bike will get lots of use, and I want to love riding it as much as I have enjoyed riding my Appaloosa.

[Peter H]

Hopefully not add to the confusion on which way you want to go but here's my experience with my xtracycle-Riv mash up.

I had heard great things about the Big Dummy, but came across an old used xtracycle kit for cheap and decided to go with a mash up build. I built up a MB4 about 3 years ago with the older version of the leap xtracycle kit. It was great, however in hopes my wife would use it too the frame I used in the end was just a bit too small for me and uncomfortable for long rides, but the derailluer and other parts were a bit clunky on big climbs, which is basically the last mile on way back home from anywhere.

Last year I picked up a Rosco Bubbe frame from list member Danny :) and swapped out the MB3, with some new & used components.

I couldn't be happier with the handling and upright comfortable riding from the Rosco Bubbe, and with the step through frame the ease of getting on and off without feeling like I'm going to karate kick both of my sons heads while doing so is for sure an added bonus they are pleased by.

My wife will drop the seat post too and take it for rides with our boys, and she finds it comfortable on the handling and hauling.

I've been super pleased by it. Great for grocery runs, commuting, hauling tools, kiddos and even w/ the kiddos bikes in tow.

A few pictures of the old set up & new.

Anyway you go you'll be psyched!

Peter

[Bones]

It is done. Been riding it around for about two weeks now...love it. The kids love it too, especially Charles here. This Clem was my trail bike before the conversion. Other than swapping the bullmooses back out for boscos, I haven't really changed much else yet. It's about 8 feet long, and it rides like a DeVille.

[Pancake]

Good find! And Bones will see that the Instagram x-tra cycled Clem has the stem mount for a Yepp front seat too!

Abe

[Patrick Moore]

Long--long--longer! I'll bet it rides like an old Coupe de Ville!

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 10:12 AM Bones <ekstr...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is done. Been riding it around for about two weeks now...love it. The kids love it too, especially Charles here. This Clem was my trail bike before the conversion. Other than swapping the bullmooses back out for boscos, I haven't really changed much else yet. It's about 8 feet long, and it rides like a DeVille.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/62d674b0-3d37-400e-8c87-7a42707c3766%40googlegroups.com.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum