Scams: A Reminder for all members

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I'm going to post this now and again as a reminder to all members.

Over the weekend (11/10/24), I had a member reach out to let me know they had been taken advantage of by an online scammer. 

Their story followed the most common recent vector:

A group member posts a WTB or ISO or "Looking for..." post

They are contacted directly via email by someone who has exactly that item, wants to sell it to them at a fair/realistic price, includes photos or other visual assets, etc. 

The photos are not theirs. The item doesn't exist. The potential buyer loses their money. 

In these scam attempts, other group members have recognized images that were theirs or belonged to riding partners. These are believable attempts and through the excitement of saving a few bucks or getting a model which is currently unavailable, it would be very easy to fall for the scam. 

And we do not fall for scams because we are stupid.
We fall for scams because we are human. 

The "seller" is not a list member. That means that some other "sleeper" account is harvesting your email address and then using it to contact you. 

If someone is not a list member, they cannot see your contact info and would not be able to contact you directly.

If you are approached after creating a WTB/ISO post
- Search the other person's email in the group archives, to see if they have a track record of posting. If they have no posts, it's likely a scam.

- Search their email in the group member section, to see if they are actually a member. If they are not a member, it's likely a scam. 

If you do choose to proceed with any transaction, you do so at entirely your risk. Due diligence and paying with a protected method are always good practice. 

Please feel free to append this reminder to anyone's WTB/ISO post.

- Jim / list admin

[Glen]

Thank you Jim, could you please pin this to the top of the list?

[Jerry Lynn]

Sound bullet points to be sure - though I would add another measure - perform a "Google Image" search.

Jerry 

Imperial Beach CA

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Unfortunately, Google Groups actually removed that functionality. I am not able to "pin" messages any longer. Been that way for a few years now. 

J

[Matthew Williams]

Maybe we should have a thread with “Trusted Buyers & Sellers of RBWOG”?

Buyers and sellers could vouch for each other, link to the sale, and describe the transaction, sort of like eBay’s Feedback system.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thanks for that suggestion Matthew. 

That might be a little beyond the scope of what we can handle here. Under the best of circumstances, follow through on those types of things are notoriously uneven. 
(And honestly, those types of things have a way of magnifying petty disputes which I don't want to have to moderate...)

One of the upsides of using GoogleGroups is that the "Search" functions are pretty pervasive. Someone who has listed items will show up easily. 

And back to my earlier comments here and in other threads - _NOT_ showing up in any searches is a huge red flag.

Jim

[Garth]

I deleted the previous message. I'm relieved to say that both Mitch and Joey have further reached out to me and they both appear as genuinely interested parties. There's may reasons why someone may not have been a member here and yet wish to buy something, namely privacy and/or disinterest in group interacting. I sure get that ! 

-Garth 

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thanks Garth - I was just catching up on list housekeeping today and saw a couple of responses to your original post in the moderation queue. A few group _members_ pointed out that they aren't active in the list, but use it as a resource and to purchase gear. I get that not everyone wants to be involved in the same way. I'm choosing not to post those so as not to distract from the core message.
I realize there are plenty of folks in this group who don't _post_ much, if at all. That wasn't my point. 

The primary scam vector of the past few months has been from people who are _not_ actual group members. 
If someone is not a member of this group, they literally cannot see your email address (unless you put it into the body of your post). 
That means if someone contacts you directly, they have used one "group member" account to discover your email, then contacted you from a second email address. That checks the "hinky" box on my dance card.

A "lurking" member who simply doesn't post or interact will show up when you go to the Group main page and click on "Members" and search for their email address.
I am talking about being contacted by someone who does not show up when you search for them under the "Members" option. That would cause a red flag for me. 

Having seen that red flag, I would search more widely under that email address to see where else it shows up on the wider internet. Little to no presence? I would be very, very, very, very, very wary. 
It is extremely easy to image search for whatever you can image and preset it as a product available for purchase. 

Everyone tolerates risk differently. I just hate to get emails from folks who got scammed. 
As I've said before, most of the transactions which members choose to engage in go off swimmingly. That has to do with the visibility of each of us within this environment. 

Thanks to all of you who continue to hang out here in whatever way works for you.

Jim / list admin