OT Vintage MTB rehab project.

[hsmitham]

Hello Rivendellians,

I have a 1995 Salsa Ala Carte and I'd like to rehab it with a new drive and cockpit. It has the original Salsa chromoly stem 130mm and have considered throwing on a Ritchey 30º rise 80mm stem & straight MTB bar for more comfort. The current setup I'm pretty stretched out.The old rapid fire shifters just don't work, I've tried lot's of things to get the shifter working (advice from LBS) but it seems easier to just buy new one's. 

The drive is 8 speed and has a Cook Bros Crank *(they went out of business in the early 2000's) which has a 4 bolt spider. I measured the inner bolts distance between adjacent bolts and determined it was a 58mm BCD ring, I also measured the outside bolts between adjacent bolts and figure it's a 94mm BCD ring. I used this chart which seemed the only one that had my measurements, 34mm & 55mm respectively. It seems MTB's with all the new tech have left these BCD's behind.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/704206-chainring-bcd-chart.html

I went to the Peter White page and found this page  http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/chainrings.asp 

The TA Carmina rings seem like the right ones? But man are they expensive!

Is the bike worth keeping it somewhat period/vintage?  Have I measured this correctly? Are there other ring manufacturers making these ring sizes and importantly less expensive. I've seen Vuelta and Real rings but just don't know whether their quality rings?

I could just purchase a SLX 10 speed group for $230 and be done with it. 

*I heard Cook Bros came back in 2010 but with limited offerings but my search has been fruitless in terms of info regarding BCD ring sizes.

So thanks in advance for any wisdom the group can dispense. 

~Hugh

  Los Angeles, CA

 

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Hugh, that's a neat old frame with cool cranks, but I wouldn't worry too much about "period correct" if you're going to ride it a lot. A nice Petaluma Salsa is still nice with a modern drivetrain.

[Hugh Smitham]

Thanks Joe.

Yes I plan on riding it. So most likely just get a new 10 speed group.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Hugh, that's a neat old frame with cool cranks, but I wouldn't worry too much about "period correct" if you're going to ride it a lot. A nice Petaluma Salsa is still nice with a modern drivetrain.

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[Bill Lindsay]

Hugh

There's a conflict in your measurement procedure, or I'm confused, or both.  

You say your chainrings all are 4-bolt.  That is to say, each chainring is held to the spider with four chainring bolts.  Is this right?  If so, you measure the BCD by measuring OPPOSITE bolts, not adjacent bolts.  If it's 94mm BCD, it will measure 94mm.  

You say you used the linked chart, but that linked chart is exclusively for 5-bolt rings.  5-bolt rings have no opposite bolt to measure, so you measure the adjacent one and look it up on the chart.  

So, if you really have 5-bolt rings, then you did the right measurement and you came up with the right BCDs.  Rings in the $20 range are findable for that BCD, and are all decent.  

But, if you really have 4-bolt rings and really measured the adjacent bolts at 34mm and 55mm respectively, then you don't have 58 and 94mm BCDs respectively.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA  

[Hugh Smitham]

You're right Bill I used the wrong chart.

It's a 4 bolt spider. And I measured from one bolt to the other and those were my measurements. 

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

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[Hugh Smitham]

If I use this chart my BCD isn't even there?

https://www.bikeman.com/bicycle-repair-tech-info/bikeman-tech-info/1628-chainring-bcd

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Joe Bernard]

4-bolt mtb cranks are 104 and 64, and I don't remember ever seeing a Cook Bros 4-bolt crank. Can you post a pic of it? We should be able to make a good guess about what rings you need by looking at it.

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe,

I'll post a pic tomorrow. I don't get MLK off. I assure you its a 4 bolt crank.

[Joe Bernard]

I did some searching and found 58/94 Cook Bros cranks with a hidden 5th bolt behind the crankarm. I think that's what you have.

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 12:50:32 PM UTC-8, hsmitham wrote:

[Garth]

  Hmm, like Joe, I remember Cook cranks but never heard of a 4 bolt one. 4 arm, yes, with 5 bolts and one hidden. 94/58 was common back then for 5 arm and was never available as a 4 bolt.


Here's some info on them : http://mombat.org/MOMBAT/BikeHistoryPages/Cook_Bros.html

If you're saying yours are absolutely 4 arm and 4 bolt then we have an good ol' suspense thriller !   Pics , oh yes !  

[Joe Bernard]

Ok, I guess they did make a 4-bolter.

[Jim M.]

Here's Sheldon's chart. There are many Shimano 4-bolt mtn cranks, so I'm sure you can find rings without too much problem. I've been quite satisfied with Blackspire rings, which come in 8-speed and with various 4-bolt patterns: http://www.blackspire.com/qs/product/83/5948/263223/0/0

jim m

wc ca

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm with Joe on this.  I suspect you've got 4 visible arms and a hidden 5th one.  Like a sugino or a ritchey.  That being the case, your measurements and conclusions are right (94/58) and you should be able to find rings.  Let me know what rings you want, and I might be able to hook you up.  Trade/sell/player to be named later.  Whatever

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 1:36:58 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Garth]

Also, Vuelta makes 94 and 58 chainrings too , about Sugino "basic" ring quality and price .

[Hugh Smitham]

I think you guy's are right. There's gotta be a hidden bolt.

[Hugh Smitham]

Okay, so I'm a moron. Starring square (or round as the case is) back at me are five friggin bolts! Thank you guy's for walking a blind man down the road to the light.

​

Thanks Jim for the Blackspire link they have what I need. 

~Hugh

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

[Joe Bernard]

"Moron" is a little strong, you were trying to describe cranks you weren't looking at. One time I posted, and answered questions about, a Paul hub for sale. A potential buyer kindly pointed out that the pictured hub - which was sitting right in front of me - was a Surly. Doh!

Make sure you get 9- or 10-speed rings if you're going to use a 10 chain with those cranks.

[Patrick Moore]

I've used 10 and 9 speed chain with 5 speed (old TA Pro 5 Vis) chainrings with no problems. 

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Make sure you get 9- or 10-speed rings if you're going to use a 10 chain with those cranks.

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[hsmitham]

Thanks Joe,

You're a kind man.

~Hugh

[Mike Schiller]

Hugh, all of my bikes (except the Commando) have 94/58 BCD cranksets.  There are a number of companies that still make that size as others have pointed out.  But most are 8 or 9 speed based.  You can get a full set of Raceface rings for about $80 on EBAY  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Race-Face-9-Speed-Team-Chainring-Set-58mm-x-94mm-22-32-44-Black-/381510887186?hash=item58d3d22712:g:v5sAAOSwnipWZINw

BTW I have that exact  Ritchey stem in my parts box that you can have for free.  Also all my bikes with 94/58 cranks are set up 8 speed. Some are Shimergo with 10 speed Campy shifters or with Shimano bar ends.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Dave Johnston]

I have some various manf 34, 32, and Stainless 24t rings in 94/58 I would be willing to sell.

Surly also sells Stainless rings in a variety of 94mm sizes up to 36t. I did not like the quality of the Real brand. Really thick cut teeth.

The TA rings are awesome but pricey:

[Dave Johnston]

BTW: The cook brothers crank had a replaceable spider so in theory there are spiders in 110/74 BCD out there. But probably attached to cranks and selling for big bucks on ebay.

-Dave J