Review & Instructions for Snobbish Nitto SP-60 Seat Post

[James Valiensi]

FYI,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624644201633/with/4910750479/

James Valiensi, PE
Northridge, CA
H818.775.1847 M.818.585.1796

[William]

Nicely done.

Can you tell me about that pale yellow JPValiensi labelled
frameset?

On Aug 20, 1:51 pm, James Valiensi <valie...@mac.com> wrote:
> FYI,
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624644201...

[cm]

I love the way this post looks. This is my new favorite seat post. All
others now seem inferior.

Great Pics.

Thanks James!

Cheers!
cm

[James Valiensi]

Hi,
Labeled and made by JP Valiensi. It is a 650B frame set made from Columbus tubing. I have Honjo fenders for it, but I don't use them in the summer.
It is the 6th frame I made, about 6 years ago. Here is another photo of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157623193171742/

I make bicycle frames, mostly for myself but sometimes for others. I have a background in metal fabrication and enjoy making stuff (its all I know).

Cheers!

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[JoelMatthews]

James:

Thanks for the step by step. I'm pumped. My stem should arrive
Monday.

I plan on using mine with a Berthoud though!

And hey, your self-made bike is very nice.

On Aug 20, 3:51 pm, James Valiensi <valie...@mac.com> wrote:
> FYI,
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624644201...
>

[PATRICK MOORE]

Why inferior? I'm curious about the advantages of this type.

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--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com

[JoelMatthews]

> I'm curious about the advantages of this type.

The advantage, if you will, is aesthetics. It affords a very pure and
clean look.

Similar product on the market use lower quality metal than the Nitto.
The excellent patina of the stem disappearing into a nice leather
saddle is a special visual.

Aesthetics are personal. I expect from a purely objective point of
you, the Moots cinch post is probably the best mix of function, easy
to adjust, weight and strength. But that big dang cinch mechanism
hangs out there for all to see. So vulgar!

On Aug 20, 7:11 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why inferior? I'm curious about the advantages of this type.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:26 PM, cm <chrispmur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I love the way this post looks. This is my new favorite seat post. All
> > others now seem inferior.
>
> > Great Pics.
>
> > Thanks James!
>
> > Cheers!
> > cm
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact

> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

[EricP]

Two factors keep me from buying one, the primary being my weight. At
220, well beyond what that system can tolerate.

And the top of the post. Just prefer a closed top post. Better to
keep out sweat and the elements.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[ejg]

That's a beautiful bike

On Aug 20, 7:31 pm, James Valiensi <valie...@mac.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> Labeled and made by JP Valiensi. It is a 650B frame set made from Columbus tubing. I have Honjo fenders for it, but I don't use them in the summer.
> It is the 6th frame I made, about 6 years ago. Here is another photo of it:
>

> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157623193171...

>
> I make bicycle frames, mostly for myself but sometimes for others. I have a background in metal fabrication and enjoy making stuff (its all I know).
>
> Cheers!
>
> On Aug 20, 2010, at 2:08 PM, William wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Nicely done.
>
> > Can you tell me about that pale yellow JPValiensi labelled
> > frameset?
>
> > On Aug 20, 1:51 pm, James Valiensi <valie...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> FYI,
>
> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624644201...
>
> >> James Valiensi, PE
> >> Northridge, CA
> >> H818.775.1847 M.818.585.1796
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[Jim Cloud]

I noticed the restriction pertaining to recommended weight (not above
200 lbs.), so that would leave me out as well. My all-time favorite
seatpost is the Nitto Jaguar NJS seatpost, which Rivendell called the
"Frog" when they were selling it. I've used this seatpost on my
Rivendell Road Standard from day one, and also replaced a Campagnolo
Super Record seatpost with the Nitto Jaguar on another bike that I
subsequently sold (a very pretty Wateford W-13).

The prices of the Jaguar seatpost are a little daunting today (I paid
$75.00 back when I bought mine). They seem to be going for about
$170.00 from most on-line retailers at present.

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

[James Valiensi]

The Frog seat post must be the most secure and easy to adjust seat post in the world. I was so disappointed when Rivendell quit brining it in. They had the best price because they directly imported it from Nitto. Maybe there was pressure from the other distributers? If I need one now, I get it from Japan or pay the price, the thing lasts forever.

Cheers!

James Valiensi, PE
Northridge, CA
H818.775.1847 M.818.585.1796

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 20:16 -0700, James Valiensi wrote:
> The Frog seat post must be the most secure and easy to adjust seat
> post in the world. I was so disappointed when Rivendell quit brining
> it in. They had the best price because they directly imported it from
> Nitto. Maybe there was pressure from the other distributers? If I need
> one now, I get it from Japan or pay the price, the thing lasts
> forever.
>

I believe the S83, which is easily available, has the same secure and
easy adjustment mechanism. http://www.velo-orange.com/nisse.html

[msrw]

For everyone who uses traditional frames and subscribes to the "fist
of seatpost extension" aesthetic, Peter White sells 210 mm Nitto
Jaguar seatposts for around US$ 90. Almost everyone else sells the
250 mm version at close to double Peter's price.

I agree with Jim that the Jaguar is arguably the best seatpost ever
made.

[Peter Andrews]

@ Peter White, the Nitto Crystal Fellow (single-bolt) is $95, and the
Nitto Jaguar NJ SP72 (2-bolt) is $130 for the 210mm, and $140 for the
250mm, just to clarify.

[Bob Cooper]

I ordered a Nitto S-83 quite some time ago, and this week I got around
to installing it, mating the Atlantis to the Brooks Team Pro.

As I was lubing and assembling the ensemble, I was struck by the fact
that this was the finest seatpost I had ever installed.

Better than my Dura-Ace, Synchros, Easton, Suntour XC Pro, Suntour
Superbe Pro, American Classic or even the Nitto S-65 of which I think
I have three and the Thompson Elite of which I have three.

None of these is junk, but the S-83 is better. How do they do it? A
masterpiece of design and execution.

Bob Cooper

[EricP]

Totally agree with you, Bob. Before seeing the S-83, the old Suntoure
XC pro was my favorite. Even more so when I was riding mountain
bikes.

Just purchased the VO post for my LHT. Not as nicely finished, but a
bit more setback, which I seem to prefer on this bike. Also was
easier to install than the S-83, which for all it's fine points, takes
a bit of finesse to fit onto leather saddles. Especially with a Nitto
saddlebag grip.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[PATRICK MOORE]

Bob: I've got the earlier aluminum DA posts on two Rivs; even with
their considerable setback I have to use a mallet to get my Flites far
back enough (yes, I ought to have listened to Grant long ago when he
counseled a 72* st; but mine are 73*) and the clamp grips the front
part of the cradle with just mm of contact (no problems over many
years, but ...).

Does the S 83 have more setback than the DAs?

Can't see what the fuss is over the SP 60,though -- looks like a bad
old design resurrected in better quality.

Thanks.

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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact

Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com

[JoelMatthews]

> Can't see what the fuss is over the SP 60,though -- looks like a bad
> old design resurrected in better quality.

Sadly, good taste has become all too rare in this 21st Century. For
those of carrying the flame, there is now the SP-60. Which is, by the
way, the topic of this thread.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact

> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

[Johnny Alien]

I am a bit lost on this as well. While they look great I always
thought the two part seatposts of the past were a bad design
decision. Past nostalgia what would be the benefit of this post?

[Bob Cooper]

"...what would be the benefit of this post?"

Historically, from a practical POV, the clamp went with the saddle and
the post went with the frame.

Lots of frames were manufactured without standardized seat tube IDs.
The plain post would be very inexpensive to manufacture in a plethora
of sized.

Lots of saddles were sold with the clamp.

Some saddles had more than two rails.

Et cetera.

So, in the past, the two-part design had a purpose.

Bob "Who's Getting Old Fast" Cooper

[PATRICK MOORE]

Yes, but it's not nearly as nice as the other, more modern Nitto
seatposts or, for that matter, my Dura Aces and old Simplex (think
it's Simplex) -- whence my question.

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:24 PM, JoelMatthews <joelma...@mac.com> wrote:
>> Can't see what the fuss is over the SP 60,though -- looks like a bad
>> old design resurrected in better quality.
>
> Sadly, good taste has become all too rare in this 21st Century.  For
> those of carrying the flame, there is now the SP-60.  Which is, by the
> way, the topic of this thread.
>

Patrick Moore, *Resolutely* bottom trimming.

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact

Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com

[PATRICK MOORE]

I am old enough to remember when the LaPrad type of post was called a
"micro-adjust" post because it didn't have the coarse serrations of
the old, separate-type clamp. *And* you bet you don't get as much
setback with that old kind of post. I think it's a quirky, nostalgia,
be different type of accessory, a taste for which I can sympathize
(but which I recognize as style, not function or even necessarily
aesthetics).

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact

Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com

[JoelMatthews]

> Past nostalgia what would be the benefit of this post?

Aesthetics and nostalgia are two different things. Assuming the seat
clamp is well made (if not, Brompton makes a very nice one now), it is
quite a stretch to say it is a bad design. The design got a bad rap
mainly because the seat clamps - which were spec'd and sold by the
saddle manufacturer were junk.

The aesthetic is not for everyone, nor, as we see above, will the S-60
work on every bike. I have Thomson, Nitto, CLB, classic Campy Super
Record, and a horde of old Simplex, Atom and other no name French seat
posts. I am really looking forward to taking possession of the modern
Nitto iteration.

[JoelMatthews]

> Yes, but it's not nearly as nice as the other, more modern Nitto
> seatposts or, for that matter, my Dura Aces and old Simplex (think
> it's Simplex) -- whence my question.

Really not sure how you can say this without actually having one at
hand. As I say in my prior post, I have a horde of old Simplex seat
posts, two of them NOS. I fully expect the Nitto product to be head
and shoulders above the Simplex in both looks and quality.

And this is coming from an avid collector of Simplex components. The
Retrofriction DT shifters duly excepted, most Simplex components
belong on the display shelf or a ceiling hanging decoration bike.
Even the vaunted Simplex SLJ derailleurs had their share of foibles
Huret and Campy consistently made better product (save, of course, the
lovely to look at but horrid Campy Rally rear der).

On Aug 22, 9:18 am, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, but it's not nearly as nice as the other, more modern Nitto
> seatposts or, for that matter, my Dura Aces and old Simplex (think
> it's Simplex) -- whence my question.
>

> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:24 PM, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> Can't see what the fuss is over the SP 60,though -- looks like a bad
> >> old design resurrected in better quality.
>
> > Sadly, good taste has become all too rare in this 21st Century.  For
> > those of carrying the flame, there is now the SP-60.  Which is, by the
> > way, the topic of this thread.
>
> Patrick Moore, *Resolutely* bottom trimming.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact

> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

[JoelMatthews]

> *And* you bet you don't get as much setback with that old kind of post.

Not a problem if you are using it on a custom bike.

> (but which I recognize as style, not function or even necessarily
> aesthetics).

Now we are getting into the splitting hairs category. I hope to use
mine on a custom rando style bike that will have braze on brakes,
integrated fenders and front racks, internal cabling, a stem with
built in stradle cable holder. It is my opinion the seat post will
match the aesthetics - not just style - of the rest of the bike.

> I am old enough to remember when the LaPrad type of post was called a
> "micro-adjust" post because it didn't have the coarse serrations of
> the old, separate-type clamp.

Based on James' report above, I am hopeful the clamp will be more than
up to the job. If not, and as I say above, Brompton recently put a
very nice stepped clamp on the market.

[Johnny Alien]

> Aesthetics and nostalgia are two different things.  Assuming the seat
> clamp is well made (if not, Brompton makes a very nice one now), it is
> quite a stretch to say it is a bad design.  The design got a bad rap
> mainly because the seat clamps - which were spec'd and sold by the
> saddle manufacturer were junk.

OK...past aesthetics what is the benefit. Maybe "bad" design is too
strong but certainly having less moving pieces makes more sense. If
you had multiple bikes with these it would make moving the saddle
easier but I would think that would not be a common scenario.

I don't have a problem with the stem I am sure it is well made I was
just wondering what make one choose this over another and I think the
answer is aesthetics (or nostalgia). :)

[cm]

With a seat post, I stick it on there and never adjust it again. So
why not look cool? And I doubt NItto would make a bad product, and it
reminds me of bikes I had when i was a kid, and I think it looks like
a post that was made to do a specific job without trying to look
streamlined or modern or like a piece or art (it is, after all, just
something to hold your saddle in place).

I think of it a lot like I think of the lugs on my bike.

Cheers!
cm

[JoelMatthews]

> OK...past aesthetics what is the benefit.

Aesthetics aren't enough? This is, after all the Rivendell site. One
can certainly argue a good Tig welded frame and solid color powder
coat with the appropriate dimensions and tubing will meet Rivendell
ride standards. So why get lugged steel with heart cut outs and
beautiful paint?

It has always been a bit of a drag to work your keester off to come up
with a full integrated look on your bike only to have the seat post
mechanicals loudly make their presence known.

Until now, most post and clamp options were decidedly on the budget
side of the market. Assuming this post and clamp meet Nitto's until
now exacting standards, There is a fairly good chance this will be the
missing component.

As CM says, once I get my saddle set, I don't monkey around with it
much. Not like my legs are changing length.

[Johnny Alien]

> Aesthetics aren't enough?

Absolutely it's enough. I just wanted to see if there was any benefit
past that.

[James Valiensi]

Johnny,
The seat post was not really a bad design at all, but you must understand how things are manufactured to see why. When this type of post was made, the type of machinery needed to make it was not that sophisticated. Hence the design seams less than ideal from our stand point, because CNC mills and lathes are the norm. We can easily and cheaply make parts that would have cost thousands 50+ years ago.

Look at the evolution of the crank set and bottom bracket. The cotter'd BB is by far the simplest to make. I could make one with my 1910 South Bend lathe. The tapered square bb spindle is much harder to make, and you'll need more sophisticated equipment to produce these. Now we have the out board bearings and hollow crank arms, these parts exploit the use of CNC machinery.

And I'd like to add to my review that the Nitto SP-60 is heavier and less adjustable than just about every other modern seat post. I wanted one for the look and just because none of my bike club friends have one (most never seen one!) I have other bikes with Campagnolo seat post, Thomson, and other Nitto models, so a little diversity was needed.

On Aug 22, 2010, at 6:28 AM, Johnny Alien wrote:

> I am a bit lost on this as well. While they look great I always
> thought the two part seatposts of the past were a bad design
> decision. Past nostalgia what would be the benefit of this post?

James Valiensi, PE
Northridge, CA
H818.775.1847 M.818.585.1796

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 07:57 -0700, JoelMatthews wrote:
> Campy consistently made better product (save, of course, the
> lovely to look at but horrid Campy Rally rear der).

Never mind the Rally, if you're looking for examples of Campagnolo
Horrible, be sure to include its predecessor, the Gran Turismo: a cross
between a cheapie Valentino RD and a boat anchor.

[bfd]

On Aug 22, 11:29 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote:
> > OK...past aesthetics what is the benefit.
>
>

> It has always been a bit of a drag to work your keester off to come up
> with a full integrated look on your bike only to have the seat post
> mechanicals loudly make their presence known.
>

This is interesting. I consider the sp-60 to be a very industrial
looking seatpost. Compared to today's seatpost, I actually think it
may be "louder" than current seatpost just because it is so different.

For example, if you look at standard seatposts, most look like these:

Nitto CR
http://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full/0000/1149/11-031_site_pairheads.jpg

Kalloy
http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodl/ST1550.jpg

Campy Silver Seatpost
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tech/features/campy_midrange/cereggisella01.jpg

Of course, if you decide to really want "loud," check out the Miche:
http://www.freshtripe.co.uk/Freshtripe/Seats%20&%20Seatposts_files/Miche%20Super%20Silver-1.jpg

> Until now, most post and clamp options were decidedly on the budget
> side of the market.  Assuming this post and clamp meet Nitto's until
> now exacting standards, There is a fairly good chance this will be the
> missing component.
>

Agree, Nitto makes great stuff, so you'll probably won't have any
problems with it.

Good Luck!

[JoelMatthews]

> This is interesting. I consider the sp-60 to be a very industrial
> looking seatpost. Compared to today's seatpost, I actually think it
> may be "louder" than current seatpost just because it is so different.

Well, assuming you set it up right with a saddle like the Brooks B-17
or Berthoud, the mechanical looking clamp is out of site. If you
have a Brooks Swallow or a race style Fizik, probably does not make
sense to go with the SP-60, as there is no way not to see the clamp.

On Aug 22, 5:30 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 11:29 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote:> > OK...past aesthetics what is the benefit.
>
> > It has always been a bit of a drag to work your keester off to come up
> > with a full integrated look on your bike only to have the seat post
> > mechanicals loudly make their presence known.
>
> This is interesting. I consider the sp-60 to be a very industrial
> looking seatpost. Compared to today's seatpost, I actually think it
> may be "louder" than current seatpost just because it is so different.
>
> For example, if you look at standard seatposts, most look like these:
>

> Nitto CRhttp://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full/0000/1149/11-031_site_pai...
>
> Kalloyhttp://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodl/ST1550.jpg
>
> Campy Silver Seatposthttp://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tech/features/campy_midrange/c...
>
> Of course, if you decide to really want "loud," check out the Miche:http://www.freshtripe.co.uk/Freshtripe/Seats%20&%20Seatposts_files/Mi...

[JoelMatthews]

> Never mind the Rally, if you're looking for examples of Campagnolo
> Horrible, be sure to include its predecessor, the Gran Turismo: a cross
> between a cheapie Valentino RD and a boat anchor.

Yeah. They are so uncharacteristically ugly for Campy only the most
hard core collector bothers with them.

[EricP]

Would like to comment again - when I used a similar style, it was on
bikes with 70 degree seat tube angles. Personally, would feel this
design now would put my knees too far forward to be comfortable. At
least on a modern bike.

Anyway, it's a moot point, as I am way past the weight limit for this
saddle. Strangely, have never had a problem with the Brompton design,
even when I weighed more.

(Yes, I do get the look, and might even want to try one. But it's not
going to happen.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN