Front-loader cargo bike? Thoughts?

[Michael Morrissey]

Hi everyone,

I've been riding around with my little one on my Rivendell on a Yepp Mini. With the Tosco handlebars, it's perfect. However my little one is getting bigger each day and I think we're going to need something bigger. I love talking and singing with my child on the front, and I just don't want to move them to be behind me looking at my back (which is where I was when I was on the back of my mom's bike when I was little! There has to be a better way now!).

I really really want a front-loader cargo bike. Has anyone gone from a Rivendell to a front-loader? I passed up a broken 10 year old Urban Arrow a few months ago for $400 (unavailable electric motor parts and roller/drum brakes kept me away). I'm eyeing Larry vs. Harry Bullitt's around $2250 on Craigslist. Does anyone have any advice or experience with them?

I should note that my neighborhood (Queens, NYC) sucks for biking. With my little one, I mostly ride on the sidewalk at 3 MPH. There are tons of SUVs, big trucks and vans, and angry drivers. There are no bike lanes for the first 2 miles of my commute. Other neighborhoods (Williamsburg, Sunnyside) are much better for biking. I'm worried that even if I get a front-loader it won't be as practical as "underbiking" on the Rivendell. Or should I be the change I want to see in the world and bike unafraid?

I'm leaning toward a regular pedal-powered bike that I could put a Bafang electric motor on in the future. I'm worried about an electric-only bike having proprietary parts unavailable in 10 years (hello Urban Arrow Daum motors, hello Cake Osa). Mitch Hedberg once said, "An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs." A converted electric bike with broken electric parts would also still just be a regular bike.

Thoughts?

Michael

[J Imler]

Have you considered an Xtracycle Free Radical? I feel like it puts the youngsters farther back so that they get a 300-degree view of the world. I'm just of fan of the Free Rad. I'll share some pictures of my current build ASAP. I've been very close to building my Chev with the Free Radical, I'd call it the Chev-wagon. I'm sure a front-loader would be killer but maybe the Free Radical wouldn't be bad. You can Bafang kit it too.

[Steven Sweedler]

How about one of Crust’ forks with a 20” wheel

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[Laing Conley]

Conley's Crustendell Clementine Clydesdale Cargo Cycle Conversion:

Rivendell 52cm Clementine (the OG non-PC version of the Clem Smith Jr.) with Crust Clydesdale fork (humongous Wald basket) and 52V Bafang Mid-drive. 9 x 1. Blazingly fast.

Laing Conley

Delray Beach FL

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[Patrick Moore]

That's intriguing. Laing: How much weight can you carry in that basket, and how does the Clem handle with that weight?

And how does the Clem handle unladen with the Crust fork and 20" wheel?

If I didn't want a fast road bike for my shopping* I'd build up something like that -- a modern version of the "butcher's bike." (Or else get a grocery tricycle.)

* I often turn shopping trips into much longer detours with the loaded part on the short return, so my commuting/errand bike is a Riv custom clone built from thinnish-wall normal gauge 531; flexy but it handles loads of 50 lb f+r acceptably with good racks.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to ask: Please explain "Rivendell 52cm Clementine (the OG non-PC version of the Clem Smith Jr.)"

[Brian Forsee]

I picked up an Omnium Cargo (the fullsize/largest one) a couple of years ago and couldn't be happier with it. It's probably a bit overkill for a small child, but it can handle my 80lb german shepard with ease. Also makes grocery shopping extremely easy. Just drop the bags on the platform, cargo-net down, and go. No tetris-ing.

Their mid-size, what they call the mini-max, also looks intriguing. 

[Patrick Moore]

I just looked over their site; very interesting, and much more affordable than I'd anticipated, even the titanium option --tho' I'm not sure that saving a couple of lbs with titanium makes any sense for a cargo bike.

Does yours really handle like a regular bike?

[Brian Forsee]

I thought the same on the Ti.

I mean. A really long regular bike. The linkage steering is different, much lighter than a traditional fork setup, but it also depends on how much weight is on the front. So i wouldn't say that statement is 100% accurate but it handles CLOSE to a regular bike, all things considered.

[Laing Conley]

At a minimum, the 1st batch (and maybe more batches) of step-through Clem Smith Jr. frames came with decals that say "CLEMENTINE" and the "diamond" style frames had Clem Smith Jr. decals on them. Sometime later it  was apparently decided that it was kind of sexist (non-PC) to use the old girl's bike (step-through), boy's bike (diamond) frame nomenclature and they became Clem Smith Jr. L (low) and Clem Smith Jr. H (high) - all with Clem Smith Jr. decals. Now all of the Clem Smith Jrs are the step-through style frame as far as I know. I wish it had the man climbing out of the sewer seat tube decal, but it does not. The Clementines (and early Clem Smith Jrs) also have somewhat shorter chainstays than the later frames.

I have never put more than maybe 20 lbs in the basket yet. Basically, it shrugs it off. Empty or with 20 lbs, it seems to ride like the original bike. It does weigh about double what the original bike weighed. The Bafang mid-drive has way more power than I feel comfortable with, sitting upright. Note that the front V-brake is used as a parking brake, the front disc is used for stopping.

Laing Conley

Delray Beach FL

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[J Imler]

Here are some photos of my Xtracycle Free Radical build. The front is 26" knobby with cantilever brakes, the rear is 48-hole 700c with Schwalbe marathon with v-brakes. The SunTour shifter and the Nexave rear derailleur work SO well. I'm also fond of the Bosco bars on this Schwinn Mirada frame from the 80's. My son still rides on the rear without complaint and he's now 11.

 

[Nicholas A]

We have an Urban Arrow, I can honestly say it's the best money I've ever spent on a bike. We use it pretty much every day.

[Paul Donald]

I've only just officially started riding a Riv, and I must post about it here eventually, but I have been riding an Omnium Cargo for about 6-8 years and have a Crust Clydesdale fork that gets swapped out on an old Soma frame when needed.

I love that Omnium. I put a front wheel hub drive on it myself and prefer that option over mid or rear hub drive. Two power sources, you and the front wheel. The bike rides very predictably, "just like a bike", but with the little quirk of the steering being waaaaay up front. It is weird to watch the front end while turning. Un-motorised it's a goofy fun ride and is as capable as your own legs. Once motorized it I used it when I worked as a handyman/cabinet maker for a few years hauling 50-80 lbs of tools/materials. Now it gets used mainly for big errands like Costco (ALL the paper goods, cat litter, AND a case of sparkling water)  and Home Depot (half a dozen 8' studs no problem, sheet goods more limited). And collecting the tree at Christmas time. I think they offer a Yepp adapter on their site, and I have seen a lot of images of children (and even grown ups) being ferried about on both the Cargo and Mini-max. Storage is tricky. I've seen them propped up on their front end, I have a garage so it just gets parked.

The Crust fork I've had about 4-5 years. I like the thing, I did cut the steerer down which was stupid. By using a split fork race, I switch it out with the whole fork and wheel on a Soma Saga when I want to use it as a small cargo bike. I essentially have two front ends complete with tires and brakes. Unhitch the brake cable at the lever, lift the cockpit off, switch the race over, slide steerer in, put the stem back on and away I go. I'm not so keen on the geometry of the Saga with the Clydesdale though. I used to use it on a Soma Double Cross and then a New Albion Privateer, I think the subtle difference in HT angle had the steering feel more predictable on the Double Cross and Privateer. Folks use them on Surly Cross Checks apparently. I would NOT be comfortable putting a childs seat on my set up of the Crust fork. 

On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 7:31:25 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

[Brian McDermott]

Riv guy and bakfiets guy here. I’ve got a lot of experience with cargo bikes and trikes, rear and front loading, as well as carrying kiddos. A bakfiets is the ideal way to carry kids; you can see and talk to them, and they’re more stable. I have a Frankenstein’d Human Powered Machines long Haul (HPM is now defunct but was based in the also defunct Center for Appropriate Transport in Eugene OR). I put 750w mod drive on it almost two years ago and it’s a game changer, a total car killer. I have considered eventually going to a Bullitt or a CETMA. 

The Clydesdale is a great product, though relatively limited for heavy loads since the platform isn’t independent of the steering.

[Nick Payne]

This is my Bakfiets - a Taiwanese version. I paid about $AU1100 for it shipped to my door. It came fitted with a child seat plus seatbelt in the carrier, but I removed the child seat as our terrier was quite happy without it. It has a Sturmey Archer 8-speed hub, but even with a 24t chainring and 22t rear cog, it's a bit overgeared for the amount of weight you can carry on it. I've been considering getting a motor front wheel for it, as I already have batteries and controllers I can use, and I can buy a complete motor front wheel from somewhere like TopBikeKit for somewhere around $100.

Nick Payne

[ian m]

+1 for the Omnium. You will like the feel of this bike as a Riv fan. Sooo smooth and stable, regardless of load. Looks great, handles great, surprisingly light and fun to ride when unloaded. Will carry a huge inflatable tandem kayak with aplomb