HS

[Pondero]

Let the speculation begin...

http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/365

[Ray Shine]

HS = Hub Shift?!?

---

From: Pondero <cj.sp...@gmail.com>
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 4:55 PM
Subject: [RBW] HS

Let the speculation begin...

http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/365

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[Marty]

Holy...

On Jun 17, 7:28 pm, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> HS = Hub Shift?!?
>
>
>
> >________________________________

> >From: Pondero <cj.spin...@gmail.com>

> >To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
> >Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 4:55 PM
> >Subject: [RBW] HS
>
> >Let the speculation begin...
>
> >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/365
>
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Leslie]

I think it sounds really interesting; I love the idea of the
'Nine' (for the Fellowship, eh?) (or, the Nazgul)....

Wish I could, but, a bit beyond what I need to be doing (I've got one
already in the pipeline, am patiently waiting on)...


I hope it's really successful for G....

[EricP]

Definitely beyond what I'd be comfortable spending. But I hope it does
work out and becomes a regular model. No matter what. (Well, maybe
not a mountain unicycle or full suspension recumbent.)

Was guessing "HS" meant "highly secret" as in, no telling what the
bike is until it's in your hands. (Or Harry Smith, whose Anthology of
American Folk Music was one of Bob Dylan's main influences.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[William]

I also hope it works out for Riv. It's a novel idea for raising
money. I hope there are enough people who can afford it and willing
to take the leap of faith. I imagine that those that walk up with
their $2500 deposit will get some of their questions answered while
leaving enough of the surprise for the end to make it fun.

What things do I buy without having any idea what I'm buying? Let's
see...a movie or play. Food. One of the best meals I ever had I was
out of the country, and nobody in the restaurant spoke english and I
couldn't really order. One of the cooks came out and said "I will
make a good meal for you". It was spectacular. Maybe this bike will
work out the same way for the fortunate nine.

[Zack]

Well, it definitely has a single chain ring (it says so in the HS
excel form: "You know it's a single-chain ring bike? Not a single
speed, single chainring."), so perhaps it is a 3, 7, or 8 speed
internal hub townie bike?

[newenglandbike]

I wonder what it is that will make it single-chainring only- will the
seat-tube angle/low BB prevent the use of a front derailleur? Or is
it that they will only ship with a single front ring(?) Or will it
have a fully enclosed chainguard?

I like the theory that it will have an internal-geared hub.


-Matt

[Ray Shine]

Yeah. Maybe IGh with a Kevlar belt drive. I had a couple of motorcycles that used Kevlar belt drives. Bulletproof.

---

From: newenglandbike <matthi...@gmail.com>

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:01 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: HS

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Roger]

I've wanted more saddle setback on every bike I've ever owned, and
I've read it's the front derailleur's expected operating range that
makes bike designers shy away from seat tube angles shallower than 72
degrees.

I had a single speed frame made by Mercian with a 71 degree seat tube
angle and by the time I slam a B17 all the way back it gives my
favorite position of any bike I've ridden. Still, being a heavy guy,
I'd rather have the saddle rails centered on the clamp (not maxed to
one end) so a slacker seat tube angle would be welcome for me.

[Lee Chae]

On Jun 18, 8:34 am, Zack <zack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, it definitely has a single chain ring (it says so in the HS
> excel form: "You know it's a single-chain ring bike? Not a single
> speed, single chainring."), so perhaps it is a 3, 7, or 8 speed
> internal hub townie bike?

Yeah, a fun game! I'm thinking the same thing. I would guess an
internal geared hub vs. rear derailleur'ed setup is one of the big
choices you get to make. So, a 1-by-x local bike, which you can
occasionally use on trails or for distance rides. Something that can
carry some stuff for errands around town. Perhaps a 'merican
descendant of the French porteur?

Have a great weekend, all,
Lee
SF, CA

[Anne Paulson]

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Lee Chae <lee...@stanford.edu> wrote:

>
> Yeah, a fun game! I'm thinking the same thing. I would guess an
> internal geared hub vs. rear derailleur'ed setup is one of the big
> choices you get to make.

I don't see how you could get to make that choice with the price
remaining the same for both options.

I say, internal gears for all, and, with Lee, I say an enclosed
chainguard. Integrated lighting system. Painted-to-match rear rack (or
maybe front rack, or maybe both). Painted-to-match fenders. This is
the bike they can sell to hipsters and to suburban women, the chic
cycling bike. Maybe a rear rack and a front wicker basket.

Or at least, if this isn't the bike, I wish it were. It would be very Rivish.

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[William]

I wonder if it will utilize the lug that Grant gave me:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/5626784096/



On Jun 18, 10:46 am, Anne Paulson <anne.paul...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Way Rebb]

I'm thinking it's the the Rohloff equipped lugged Pedersen type bike
everyone's been wildly speculating about.

[Anne Paulson]

That would explain why the buyer doesn't get a saddle choice.

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Way Rebb <gray...@mac.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking it's the the Rohloff equipped lugged Pedersen type bike
> everyone's been wildly speculating about.

--

[Marty]

HS = Pederson-type = Hammock Saddle?

On Jun 18, 5:42 pm, Anne Paulson <anne.paul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That would explain why the buyer doesn't get a saddle choice.
>

[PATRICK MOORE]

Oh, please don't let Rivendell get too weird. What's next, lugged
pennyfars? (Personally, though, I'd prefer a pennyfar to a Pedersen.
Speaking of weird ... glass houses ...mmbl mmbl ...)

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
patric...@resumespecialties.com

A billion stars go spinning through the night
Blazing high above your head;
But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.
(Rilke, Buddha in Glory)

[SMP]

HS = hobbit size. A folding bike, perhaps?

[Ray Shine]

I hijacked this thread because I can't log-in to RBW group via Cyclofiend. Anyone else having this problem?

---

From: William <tape...@gmail.com>

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:28 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: HS

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Ray Shine]

Disregard. It finally came up. Sorry about the hijack.

---

From: Ray Shine <r.s...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com" <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:57 AM
Subject: [RBW] Anyone else having trouble accessing RBW Group?

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[grant]

Vince here calls it "Hyper-Speed"

On Jun 17, 5:28 pm, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> HS = Hub Shift?!?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________

> >From: Pondero <cj.spin...@gmail.com>

> >To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
> >Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 4:55 PM
> >Subject: [RBW] HS
>
> >Let the speculation begin...
>
> >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/365
>
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[CycloFiend]

on 6/19/11 11:24 AM, grant at gran...@gmail.com wrote:

> Vince here calls it "Hyper-Speed"

So, presumably, you are also getting two paint jobs in one, as when it gets
up to hyper-speed, there will be the expected color shift.

;^)

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

[charlie]

I'm thinking HS could stand for holy smokes, high speed, hauling
stuff, hardly simple or a myriad of other things but the 'G man' gave
us some tips and I think he is leaning toward a hub geared, town
style, integral racked, lighted, upright bar with perhaps an option to
split the frame for transport although I think it could also be some
sort of lugged 'extendo' bike for hauling groceries like the big dummy
or even a small wheeled lugged folder which would be really cool. Now
that someone else has mentioned it, a Pederson style bicycle could
have some appeal although its a little more obscure and less flexible,
fit wise, than the Rans style semi recumbent featured in one of the
past readers so Grant, you have us wondering..............

On Jun 19, 12:55 pm, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> on 6/19/11 11:24 AM, grant at grant...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Vince here calls it "Hyper-Speed"
>
> So, presumably, you are also getting two paint jobs in one, as when it gets
> up to hyper-speed, there will be the expected color shift.
>
> ;^)
>
> --
> Jim Edgar

> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net

[charlie]

Well now that I've read the Riv page......I think HS stands for 'handy
shopper' but actually I think the mystery bike will be some sort of
daily 'transpo' bike capable of hauling stuff and will be built semi
rugged with braze ons for practical stuff . I think it could still
have a derailleur gear system but only one chain ring with a useful
set of ratios. Keep in mind that this is a test for a frame that can
be mass produced later which is why I think it will be fairly
conventional but with different frame angles etc. that will make it
fit a larger range of people without making too many sizes. The words
elegant were used so I think more of a city, all rounder, roadster
like machine is in the works.

[James Warren]

HS must stand for "hub shift". The big clue for me is the statement that you can't use more than one chainring on it. At first I thought, "what, you can't clamp on a front derailleur?" But once "hub shift" was suggested, I realized that a hub shift with no rear derailleur hanger would make it hard to have something that would take up the slack required when switching between multiple chainrings. So hub shift with no rear hanger fits the clues given.

I like having a 135-rear-spacing bike that has a derailleur hanger, because I have the option of doing one of the new internally geared hubs and could still use it with multiple gears up front.

-Jim W.

[Esteban]

Not that people can change, but there's a few things in the discussion
that are not up Grant's alley, at least up to this point: So, this is
me channeling GP:

1. Belt drive - "why when a chain works perfectly well and is easy to
fix?"
2. IGH: "overly complicated - Xx9 works fine - Xx7 is great"
3. Low trail: "my bikes don't do that."

I'm really confounded - especially the idea of no option of a front
der. I saw this in Paris, and I'm happy to report that it looks like
it has a front der, so this is not the HS prototype:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/5843048796/in/photostream

This being said, my first inclination was to think that the ideal city
bike of my weeks in Paris is coming true - a 1x9 dedicated commuter
and city bike. So, how would a front der. be impossible - if there's
no cable stop? Some kind of weird U-frame shape like a Velib - that
seems also impossible considering GP's attraction to triangles.

Maybe it is the RAAM bike in the photo!

Esteban
13 Arr., Paris France (for one more week)

[James Warren]

Lack of cable stop wouldn't make it impossible. Clamps available. I use a front shifter on my QB.

Lack of rear derailleur hanger is the only thing I can think of.

On Jun 19, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Esteban wrote:

> So, how would a front der. be impossible - if there's
> no cable stop? Some kind of weird U-frame shape like a Velib - that
> seems also impossible considering GP's attraction to triangles.
>
> Maybe it is the RAAM bike in the photo!
>
> Esteban
> 13 Arr., Paris France (for one more week)
>
> On Jun 19, 11:47 pm, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> HS must stand for "hub shift". The big clue for me is the statement that you can't use more than one chainring on it. At first I thought, "what, you can't clamp on a front derailleur?" But once "hub shift" was suggested, I realized that a hub shift with no rear derailleur hanger would make it hard to have something that would take up the slack required when switching between multiple chainrings. So hub shift with no rear hanger fits the clues given.
>>
>> I like having a 135-rear-spacing bike that has a derailleur hanger, because I have the option of doing one of the new internally geared hubs and could still use it with multiple gears up front.
>>
>> -Jim W.
>

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-06-19 at 16:20 -0700, James Warren wrote:
>
> Lack of cable stop wouldn't make it impossible. Clamps available. I
> use a front shifter on my QB.
>
> Lack of rear derailleur hanger is the only thing I can think of.
>

There used to be plenty of bolt-on derailleur hangers on Bike Boom
bikes.

[James Warren]

True. I'm guessing that nothing is impossible, and the statement "you can't use a front derailleur on this bike" probably means that the design of the bike precludes the use of a front derailleur, but someone who has a will would find a way, and in this case, that way would be to get a bolt-on hanger.

[Marty]

Seems like the mystery is too much to bear for at least five gamblers
out there. See the post update. This is gettin' good!

[EricP]

It might if the tube for the hand grip is right where a front derailer
might go. That would be somethin'. Then an aftermarket braze-on
would be required.

However, believe a 1x9 (or 8 or less) would be good. Finding that a
39 with a 12-36 gives a pretty impressive range on my Cross Check.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[charlie]

Guys listen, you don't even need a front derailleur to shift on the
front end. Just dismount and move the chain with your hands. Slow yes
but certainly way faster than changing ratios on the Simple One/
Quickbeam. I wouldn't get all hung up on that anyway. I rode today
with just a 51 and 66 inch gear on hills that I normally find my self
pedaling up in a 27 inch or lower gear. For most urban riding or even
open road stuff something from about 30 to 80 inches is plenty. If you
had no front derailleur and had a real gut busting steep climb ahead
simply jumping off and manually shifting to a smaller front ring would
just give you time to eat or drink a little before embarking. Heck a
1x5 would be good enough.

[Bill M.]

OK, my take on the HS:

Not a Pedersen, because "It's not a wack-job bike, out of character
with the others". Besides, someone already makes them.

Single chainring + multi-speed = IGH. I would expect to see the the
Alfine 11 with a J-tek bar end shifter, the Rohloff would seem a bit
pricey for this project. Dynamo front hub.

FD is not an option = seat tube angle is too shallow for normal FD's
to work without the cage hitting the chainstay, so no provision will
be made for one.

The major choice would be brake style, cantilever or brazed-on
centerpull.

Bill

[Joe Bernard]

- Vince here calls it "Hyper-Speed" -

I love it..it reminds of those '80s Bstones that said "for the super
competitor"- or something like that - on the frame. I think Grant
should keep the name: "HS" in big letters, underlined with "Hyper-
Speed for a Head Start".

Joe "marketing genius" Bernard
Fairfield, CA

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2011-06-19 at 19:57 -0700, Bill M. wrote:
>
> FD is not an option = seat tube angle is too shallow for normal FD's
> to work without the cage hitting the chainstay, so no provision will
> be made for one.
>

If you can solve the common problem of front derailleur angle on small
wheelers with a braze-on bracket that incorporates the necessary
back-angle, why couldn't you use a braze-on derailleur bracket with the
opposite angle, tipping the derailleur forward a bit, to correct for a
too-shallow seat angle?

Or if not a braze-on bracket, how about a stub front derailleur mounting
tube set at the correct angle, as found on RANS crank-forward bikes like
this: http://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion-N.htm ? The Fusion-N looks
like its seat angle is down around 45 degrees or less, and it has a
front derailleur.

[Peter Pesce]

What a fun game! Here's my guess...
This is the prototype for the commuter/city bike Grant mentioned a while ago.
But, I think, Riv wants to have a sample size greater than 1 to assess the various ideas on the bike, so the idea of a "limited edition" of higher-end prototypes is a pretty good one. I'm also guessing that this is a test of concepts, not fabrication efficiency or build quality, like you would ask for from a factory. By hand-building all the frames locally, Grant can observe, fiddle, and tweak as necessary. Oh, and the R&D gets paid for by the customers, which is probably a big deal if things are as lean as they sound at Riv HQ.
I agree with others that the front derailer issue probably stems from the inclusion of the bottom bracket hand grip that we saw mocked up in bar tape a couple of months ago. Doesn't mean there couldn't be a work-around, but declaring "no FD" heads off any potential whining...
As for the "mystery option" - brake type is a pretty good guess - Riv is probably interested to see how many takers there are for canti or sidepull. I'd LOVE to see them offer center-pull braze-ons, but I doubt it. The other option could be dropouts - horizontal or vertical.
No clue what the "HS" stands for!

[Ginz]

To me, brazing a handle to the seat tube is in the "whack-job"
category. A triangular frame bag is a possibility.

[Ray Shine]

I don't think I'd go so far as whacky, but I must admit that a handle would be completely unnecessary.  I've toted many bikes around for many years without a handle, and it's worked fine so far.

---

From: Ginz <the...@gmail.com>

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:21 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: HS

To me, brazing a handle to the seat tube is in the "whack-job"
category.  A triangular frame bag is a possibility.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Charlie]

A Hunqapillar mixte - just wishful thinking.......

Charlie

[Anne Paulson]

If I ponied up $4300 for a Rivendell and got a Pedersen type bike, I'd
be furious. Too weird, I wouldn't want it, and there's no way I'd
recover anything close to my money if I tried to sell it. And I
suspect I wouldn't be alone in that opinion. That's why I'm still
thinking a hub-shift townie bike.

By the way, speaking of townie bikes, has anyone else seen the Civia
Loring? I was getting groceries one day and a Loring was parked next
to my bike. OMG that bike is gorgeous. I spent like ten minutes just
admiring it.

-- Anne

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Way Rebb <gray...@mac.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking it's the the Rohloff equipped lugged Pedersen type bike
> everyone's been wildly speculating about.
>

> On Jun 17, 4:55 pm, Pondero <cj.spin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Let the speculation begin...
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/365
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>

--

[cm]

I think an IGH bike makes the most sense and possibly even a Rohloff.
What other IGH would you want to ride off road and take touring? And
that would put a lot of restrictions on the bike. What else would
there be left to choose? Brakes would be determined by whether the
bike was set up for cant-, center, or v. Handlebars would need to be
25.4 (unless I am not aware of a road bar Rohloff shifter). That would
also determine brake levers. So you are left with choosing the crank
(maybe) and front wheel (unless he is planning dynamo)?

Of course the handle thing is possible-- but that isnt anything really
different, just another piece of metal (more triangles!).

If I had a spare $4300 I'd be all in!

Cheers!
cm

[Kenneth Stagg]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM, cm <chrisp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think an IGH bike makes the most sense and possibly even a Rohloff.
> What other IGH would you want to ride off road and take touring? And
> that would put a lot of restrictions on the bike. What else would
> there be left to choose? Brakes would be determined by whether the
> bike was set up for cant-, center, or v. Handlebars would need to be
> 25.4 (unless I am not aware of a road bar Rohloff shifter).

It would be very cool if they also made a real shifter for the
Rohloff. I'm not in the market for a new bike but I'd be very, very
happy to get a bar end shifter that was setup to handle the extra
throw required by the Rohloff! I'd ditch that damned twist shifter in
a split second.

-Ken

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 12:18 -0700, Anne Paulson wrote:
> If I ponied up $4300 for a Rivendell and got a Pedersen type bike, I'd
> be furious.

Not a chance, I'd say. Pedersens have to be fitted to the individual,
no way you're going to get a decent range of sizes with 3 frames.
What's more, you can buy a Pedersen replica right now. Jan tested one
in BQ last fall. Where's the uniqueness in that? Might as well do a
rip-off of an F-frame Moulton.

[cyclotourist]

Ohhhh yeah, that would be nice.  I would love a 29er version of the Mtn. Mixte:  http://www.cyclofiend.com/mages/rbw/pdf/original_brown_mixte.pdf

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Charlie <Croma...@cox.net> wrote:

A Hunqapillar mixte - just wishful thinking.......

Charlie

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would probably benefit more from
improving their taste than from improving their performance. - RTMS

[Ginz]

Chaincase. I would still put on two rings and shift with a big stick!

[Roger]

" It would be very cool if they also made a real shifter for the
Rohloff. I'm not in the market for a new bike but I'd be very, very
happy to get a bar end shifter that was setup to handle the extra
throw required by the Rohloff! I'd ditch that damned twist shifter in
a split second."

I feel the same way about the SA 8-speed I have and its twist shifter.
I tried using a friction thumbshifter with it but had too many bad
shifts. I see that J-Tek has taken it upon themselves to do what SA
should have. Maybe I'll spring for the $125 barend shifter some time
and put the SA back into service.

Does anyone prefer twist shifters?


On Jun 20, 1:19 pm, Kenneth Stagg <kenneth.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kenneth Stagg]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Roger <rogerd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> " It would be very cool if they also made a real shifter for the
> Rohloff.  I'm not in the market for a new bike but I'd be very, very
> happy to get a bar end shifter that was setup to handle the extra
> throw required by the Rohloff!  I'd ditch that damned twist shifter in
> a split second."
>
> I feel the same way about the SA 8-speed I have and its twist shifter.

I'm not familiar with the SA 8-speed. Is the shifter indexed or just
the hub? The silly thing about not offering a bar-end or similar for
the Rohloff is that the shifter has no indexing - it's all handled at
the hub - so the only issues are the dual cable setup (easy enough)
and pulling enough cable (more work but doable.)

-Ken

[Leslie]

On Jun 20, 5:10 pm, Roger <rogerdhod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Does anyone prefer twist shifters?

Well.... my Nishiki MTB has GripShifts, and I've always liked
them... I've been considering a (potentially wacky) idea to try to
mount some grips on the lower part of some offroad-drop bars.....
still under 'hypothetical'....

[Jim M.]

It can work. I've seen pictures on MTBR some where. If I find it, I'll
post a link.

[Roger]

"I'm not familiar with the SA 8-speed. Is the shifter indexed or just
the hub?"

The SA 8-speed hub isn't indexed, but it definitely wants to be
centered into each gear without much feedback. Supposedly Sheldon
Brown could do it, but like 99% of the things Sheldon could do, it was
beyond my skills. I miss Sheldon.

Part of the allure of the thumbshifter (which would be about equal
with a barend shifter) was that I used the wheel/cable/shifter setup
as a self-contained module that I could have on or off of my single
speed bike in a couple of minutes with nothing but 2 or 3 zipties for
the cable and tightening the shifter clamp on the bar. Except for the
constant "is it in or out of gear" fiddliness and ker-chunking out of
gear under load it was great. I'd like a clamp-on downtube shifter
best of all for this concept.

On Jun 20, 2:53 pm, Kenneth Stagg <kenneth.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Montclair BobbyB]

OK folks... HERE is the solution to HS.... (And thanks Esteban for
giving me a clue)... It stands for Hammerschmidt... it's a 2-speed
crankset developed by SRAM (similar to the Schlumpf) with a built-in
transmission (in the crank). It obviates the need for a front
derailleur. The question is whether this will be an all-out front AND
rear internal transmission bike... I say yes, it will.

OK, everyone can watch reality TV once again, I'm spent....

Peace,
BB

[Montclair BobbyB]

Read more about it here...

http://tinyurl.com/3g7eyk4

Could this be it??? If so, that's some pretty funky stuff...

On Jun 20, 8:22 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[charlie]

Yea that looks pretty cool........off road looking which seems to be
where the Riv folks ride quite a bit.

On Jun 20, 5:29 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>

[Bill Gibson (III)]

Retro-direct, anyone?

My guess is that he means it when the HS will be a more "elegant", maybe a more "integrated" design. It may be less of a bike meant to be widely adaptable to different configurations, as many Rivendell designs are. But it won't be a single-purpose bike at all.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

[William]

....and now SEVEN of them are sold. I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm
waiting for a lister to speak up and say that they've put their money
down.

On Jun 20, 7:09 pm, "Bill Gibson (III)" <bill.bgib...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[doug peterson]

It's plausible. 22 or 24T chainring with 1:1 or 1.6:1 ratio. So you
get a granny in 1:1 and the equivalent of a 35 or 38T ring in the
overdrive. But IMHO the grey or black or whatever doesn't really look
like it belongs on a Riv. Maybe it looks better in person than in the
photo?

dougP

On Jun 20, 5:22 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > > -Ken- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Montclair BobbyB]

Hopefully they'll be first sent to Nitto for "resurfacing"...

[grant]

nupe...the HS won't be no "gramps gets Botox & goes disco" bike

On Jun 19, 6:44 am, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, please don't let Rivendell get too weird. What's next, lugged
> pennyfars? (Personally, though, I'd prefer a pennyfar to a Pedersen.
> Speaking of weird ... glass houses ...mmbl mmbl ...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:33 AM, Marty <mgie...@mac.com> wrote:
> > HS = Pederson-type = Hammock Saddle?
>
> > On Jun 18, 5:42 pm, Anne Paulson <anne.paul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> That would explain why the buyer doesn't get a saddle choice.

>
> >> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Way Rebb <grayc...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> > I'm thinking it's the the Rohloff equipped lugged Pedersen type bike
> >> > everyone's been wildly speculating about.
>

> >> --
> >> -- Anne Paulson
>
> >> My hovercraft is full of eels
>

> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> --

> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW
> patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com
>
> A billion stars go spinning through the night
> Blazing high above your head;
> But in you is the Presence that will be
> When all the stars are dead.
> (Rilke, Buddha in Glory)

[jamison brosseau]

I signed up. I know nothing though. It will b a good bike.

On Jun 20, 10:58 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ....and now SEVEN of them are sold.  I'm pleasantly surprised.  I'm
> waiting for a lister to speak up and say that they've put their money
> down.
>
> On Jun 20, 7:09 pm, "Bill Gibson (III)" <bill.bgib...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Retro-direct, anyone?
>

> > My guess is that he means it when theHSwill be a more "elegant", maybe a

> > more "integrated" design. It may be less of a bike meant to be widely
> > adaptable to different configurations, as many Rivendell designs are. But it
> > won't be a single-purpose bike at all.
>
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 6:34 PM, charlie <charles_v...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yea that looks pretty cool........off road looking which seems to be
> > > where the Riv folks ride quite a bit.
>
> > > On Jun 20, 5:29 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Read more about it here...
>
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/3g7eyk4
>
> > > > Could this be it???  If so, that's some pretty funky stuff...
>
> > > > On Jun 20, 8:22 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>

> > > > > OK folks... HERE is the solution toHS.... (And thanks Esteban for

[William]

If you look on ebay for HammerSchmidt cranksets there are silver ones
as well...at least the arms. Sounds plausible.

On Jun 20, 8:50 pm, Montclair BobbyB <montclairbob...@gmail.com>

[David T.]

I think HS will stand for Harry Salisbury, or maybe Hank Snow.
Something along those lines.

It will be a bike for riding in the city, doing errands and picking
things up. Racks for carrying items. Single front chainring with a
chainguard of some sort.

Large tires, expanded frame; because it is coming in only three sizes.
Based on the “underpaint elegance” remark it will probably incorporate
some kind of diagonal tube or reinforcing, something unusual in the
frame shape.

When do we find out if we guessed right?

[cyclotourist]

Awesome!!!!

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:31 AM, jamison brosseau <jamison....@gmail.com> wrote:

I signed up.  I know nothing though.  It will b a good bike.

[MichaelH]

At 66 with four bikes plus the tandem I don't have many bike purchases
left in me, but hub shift suggests IGH to me, which brings up my ideal
winter bike:

Rolhoff rear hub; gates carbon belt; Schmidt front hub; Ti frame; room
for 42 mm studded tires and full fenders. I don't see this bike
coming from a desert in California!

Dang i wish this site didn't take so long to load... what gives? I
can load the cached version or the /discussion version... but the
basic .groups/rbw-owners-bunch takes almost 2 minutes on a decent
cable connection with Safari & lots of spare memory.

Gotta go out for a ride on my new White pedals..

michael

On Jun 19, 5:47 pm, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> HS must stand for "hub shift". The big clue for me is the statement that you can't use more than one chainring on it. At first I thought, "what, you can't clamp on a front derailleur?" But once "hub shift" was suggested, I realized that a hub shift with no rear derailleur hanger would make it hard to have something that would take up the slack required when switching between multiple chainrings. So hub shift with no rear hanger fits the clues given.
>
> I like having a 135-rear-spacing bike that has a derailleur hanger, because I have the option of doing one of the new internally geared hubs and could still use it with multiple gears up front.
>
> -Jim W.

[Ray Shine]

Jim has acknowledged a glitch in the load from Google group site. I am having the same problem as you, only I use Firefox instead of Safari.

---

From: MichaelH <mhec...@gmail.com>
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:09 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: HS

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[doug peterson]

Jamison:

Good for you to be in a position & have the faith to sign up.
Hopefully the first run will get scattered all over the country and
NOT concentrated around San Francisco Bay. Then the rest of us could
have a hope of seeing one in person. All this speculation is
intriguing but I predict Grant's got a few surprises in store for us.
I gotta admit the dual range crank coupled with an IGH, using a belt
drive, has a lot of merit, at least in concept.

dougP

On Jun 21, 8:31 am, jamison brosseau <jamison.bross...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > > Tempe, Arizona, USA- Hide quoted text -

[charlie]

Well.....I hear those belts are finicky and can be damaged if not
handled properly. Carrying a spare is not such an easy task either due
to how you have to maintain the shape or whatever, besides the link
chain revolutionized the world and I can fix it myself.
The idea of disc brakes appeals to me though since it rains here so
much your rims get ground to nothing in no time.

[Ray Shine]

Interesting. I wonder why the Kevlar drive would be so much more prone to failure than the Kevlar drive belt on my 1400cc motorcycle, which has never failed or had a problem? Different Kevlar?

---

From: charlie <charle...@hotmail.com>

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:54 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: HS

> > > > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Bill Gibson
> > > > Tempe, Arizona, USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Montclair BobbyB]

Oh, if only I didn't have 2 kids to put through college over the next
5 years...
I'd say it's a sound investment... and it will likely be a total hoot
to ride... whatever "it" ends up being...

Jamison, I'm gonna hafta come see yours in Red Hook... Perhaps we need
a winter Riv Rally NYC... meet in Prospect Park, then ride over the
Brooklyn Bridge and circumscribe Manhattan...

Peace,
BB

On Jun 21, 9:21 pm, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Interesting. I wonder why the Kevlar drive would be so much more prone to failure than the Kevlar drive belt on my 1400cc motorcycle, which has never failed or had a problem? Different Kevlar?
>
>
>
> >________________________________

> >From: charlie <charles_v...@hotmail.com>

> >> > > > > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> >> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> >> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Bill Gibson
> >> > > > Tempe, Arizona, USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Brett Lindenbach]

+1 to Riv Rally NYC, keep me posted (CT)!

[charlie]

I'm not sure either but I read some info on these Gates belts and
supposedly you can't just fold em up in you saddlebag for a spare as
it damages them somehow. I've seen plenty of timing belts crap out on
autos and I know they are tough I just don't like the idea as a
replacement for a bicycle chain. Clean & quiet they are but I want to
see how they perform over a longer time period for bicycles.

On Jun 21, 6:21 pm, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Interesting. I wonder why the Kevlar drive would be so much more prone to failure than the Kevlar drive belt on my 1400cc motorcycle, which has never failed or had a problem? Different Kevlar?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________

> >From: charlie <charles_v...@hotmail.com>

> >> > > > > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> >> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> >> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Bill Gibson
> >> > > > Tempe, Arizona, USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >--
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[grant]

but I predict Grant's got a few surprises in store for us. (Doug P.)

now I gotta think of surprises? Oh man.....pressure.

[charlie]

Just have a cobbled together gag bike made up to freak everyone out
with....then reveal the actual bicycle. But the gag bike has to work
and you must ride it. Maybe a clown bike or something like that would
be fun.

[Bill M.]

Modern, high-strength timing belts don't like to be bent backwards or
crimped tightly. Forcing them to do so can cause them to de-
laminate.

Bill

[William]

That's why you need to master the triple loop fold for timing belts
(and wire bead tires). If only somebody would do a 12-second youtube
movie showing how to do a twistless triple loop. They should probably
wear a railroad shirt while doing it....

http://www.youtube.com/user/RivBikeWorks#p/u/16/INIG3NRTbEE

[robert zeidler]

I may be too late, but just in case, I filled out the form anyway.

[Esteban]

My goodness, I finally figured it out. I can't believe it took me
this long! Voila! It's a scooter bike.

[Ginz]

Great idea. The photoshoppers are now hard at work adding triple diag-
a-tubes, invert-a-tubes and xris-xross-tubes!

[tarik saleh]

Right! lugged this bike:
http://www.tariksaleh.com/bike/flashy/flashy.html

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>

--
Tarik Saleh
tas at tariksaleh dot com
in los alamos, po box 208, 87544
http://tariksaleh.com
all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com

[Liesl]

I think the new bike will have creative and beautiful seat stays here-
to-for never seen.

liesl
minneapolis
(and the family where John Blish's spectacular 58 Quickbeam went)

[robert zeidler]

Or better yet, 6 diaga tubes, all specially tuned to match the strings
on a guitar. You could ride your axe! Or play your bike.... or...

[Scotty]

I dont know about all of this silliness. I just wish they would get to
building my A Homer Hilsen. :-(

[Robert Harrison]

The Les Paul model.

Sent from my iPad

[Abcyclehank]

Down to only one left.

Wondered if anyone was not included due to size factors.
At 6'7" 235 with a 99 pbh I have been tempted but figured I might be
out of luck.

Robert has potentially given me hope.

Ryan

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Fuz]

- I did notice that Grant has been featured on http://pushingthepedals.com/ just before the announcement of the HS.

- I also note more than a few of the bikes featured on http://pushingthepedals.com/ have single ring cranks with an IGH.

- Also noted that there has been talk of a simple commuter bike.

Deducing from what exists of the current model lineup, what could fit in, and what ancillary data has circulated, my guess is also that it will be a highly integrated IGH frame with provisions for internal wiring/cabling, chain-guard, disc brakes, lighting, along with the usual riv design philosophies.  It's about as modernish as you can get, but outside of questionably proven new tech.

For its purpose it will have be be somewhat plain to avoid looking like a theft target, with a durable (possibly power coated?) finish.

But part of me has some doubt since a bike like this already exists in one form or another.  Like the Retrovelo Rolf 14 model.

[Anne Paulson]

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Fuz <edibles...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Deducing from what exists of the current model lineup, what could fit in,
> and what ancillary data has circulated, my guess is also that it will be a
> highly integrated IGH frame with provisions for internal wiring/cabling,
> chain-guard, disc brakes, lighting, along with the usual riv design
> philosophies.  It's about as modernish as you can get, but outside of
> questionably proven new tech.
>
> For its purpose it will have be be somewhat plain to avoid looking like a

> theft target, with a durable (possibly powder coated?) finish.

That's what I think too. And if I KNEW that's what it would be, I'd be tempted.

By the way, looking at those pictures of Grant and the Pushing the
Pedals dude camping makes me think two things:

(1) I need to take my bike for a small jaunt to the Marin Headlands.
Angel Island, too. Those S24O's look great.

(2) As I suspected, the Large Saddlesack by itself isn't big enough
for camping. Grant appears to be using one, but he is also using some
sort of large front bag, and he has jammed a lot of stuff on top of
the front bag too.
--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[grant]

Three of the so-far-eight gamblers have PBH of 95+, with a 99 already
in there. So...although ifwhen a production model happens, we'll limit
it to 3-4 sizes, on the gambler's run, it looks like they'll be made
to fit, anyway. But there is a detail that makes them fit a slighly
wider range fine. Still, I've having to design bigger ones than I'd
expected to. No biggie, can do it, and Nobi certainly can make 'em.
Uno left, but we may just have it built and keep it as a demo here, as
a sample to show in case we have a production model. Mine could be
that, too, but it would be good to have two styles, etc.

It's a fun and educational project for me, personallyprofessionally.
It reveals some gaps in the framebuilding supplies menu, and I've got
to figure out whether to turn left or right, so I talk to the guys
here about it. "Simple or superfluous?" comes up a lot. Is
"superfluous" just more versatile, or is it too much? Options are in
general desirable, but too many options are mean and confusing. The
bike won't look radically weird. People on the street may stop and
look and know they're looking at something special or unusual, but
they won't see the stuff I think it neat about it. Of course, it is
all theory at this point. I could be wrong about it. The first one
made will be mine, and if I'm wrong about what I think should be the
coolest thing about the bike, then I'll go to plan A & 1/2 for the
gamblers, and that should nail it. Gamblers or not, I don't want to
design a monkey bike for anybody, and the leap-uh-faith that's going
on is something I take super seriously, and don't want to blow it.

[Robert Harrison]

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2011, at 8:01 PM, Anne Paulson <anne.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

(2) As I suspected, the Large Saddlesack by itself isn't big enough
for camping. Grant appears to be using one, but he is also using some
sort of large front bag, and he has jammed a lot of stuff on top of
the front bag too.

--
-- Anne Paulson

That looks like a SlickerSack up front. I use the setup when I go camping (which isn't often enough I'm afraid).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3556/4559543495_b73a201537_z_d.jpg

It's kind of hard to tell from my image but there is a SlickerSack with stuff piled on it under the yellow rain cover (I'd started in morning rain which had cleared by this rest break).

The SlickerSack has places one can strap stuff on. I've also tossed a net over the whole deal which I usually do. 

This was from last year. As I said; not often enough.

I'm actually off to do most of the same ride today (about 70 miles), but sadly, no camping. It's a one way ride with a bus trip home at the end.

Aloha!

[doug peterson]

grant:

This little corner of the bicycling world has a lot of faith in your
designs and trust in your selection of components, execution of
details, etc. If the gamblers on this bike are as happy with the
result as I expect them to be, do you have any idea how long the line
is going to be next time you start musing along the lines of "...I've
got this idea...."?

dougP

[robert zeidler]

As a "gambler", I'm quite pleased GP is serious about this. I gambled
on my Riv custom about 9 years ago, and every ride is like putting on
my favorite pair of jeans.

A pair of dice headbadge is stuck in my feeble mind. I'll have to work on that.

[robert zeidler]

I, thus far, have not heard from the good folks at the Riv. I am
curious as to what the project holds, though. Even though I disagree
wit a lot of stuff GP does, the fact is that every time we have spoken
by phone, he has been only kind and courteous to me. I continue to
spend money there, and have been a loyal BOB member since God knows
when. And, when all is said and done, it is his company. I have a
company too, and the most admirable thing about him, IMHO, is the
thing that I do myself. We follow our instincts, and do what we think
is best. Besides what better way to push the boundaries than a
Beanpole Edition!?

So here I sit.... patiently waiting.

[Leslie]

Rivbike updated, now says "All Gone"....

[Pondero]

I thought, pondered, and agonized, but couldn't pull the trigger.

Congratulations to adventurous out there. May you be well-rewarded.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I sympathize. I did the same for 8 days, but curiosity finally trumped caution. I was the last one in the pool.

Sent from my iPad

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
****************************************************

To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein.
****************************************************
****************************************************

This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof.

Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request.
****************************************************
==============================================================================

[robert zeidler]

Anybody hear anything?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Keven told me that we'll have a few decisions to make between now and delivery, and that GP might spill a few details, but I didn't get the sense that there's going to be a Big Reveal now that all HS's are spoken for.

Sent from my iPad

[robert zeidler]

That's cool, something fun to look forward to.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Allingham II, Thomas J