Long cage rear derailer options in silver

[Scot Brooks]

As my new bicycle is taking shape, I'm painfully aware all-over-again that there are very few rear derailers being made in silver these days that will accomodate my 12-36t cassette. Other than the euro LX sold through Riv, is there anything that comes in a plain silver finish? I don't like the look of the black or the silver/black Deore, though it's reliable, easily found, and economical. I've given up on a used one, since rear derailers tend to suffer quite a lot of cosmetic degradation before being offered for sale, generally speaking. 

[Leslie]

I prefer the older XT long-cage SGS derailleurs, have the same model on both the Ram and the Bomba... The Ram is w/ a 11-32 9sp, the Bomba is w/ a 11-34 9sp. I think they'd function with a 36, but can't promise that they could. Both of mine are low-normals instead of regular high-normal, but this one about the same era:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Deore-XT-RD-M751-MTB-Rear-Derailleur-9-speed-Long-Cage-Silver-/270988233662?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f18284bbe#ht_2432wt_1014

[Joe Bernard]

Campy makes a silver long-cage.

[Scot Brooks]

Joe, that Campy is gorgeous but only wraps up 29t per their specs. I know there's a little cushion there, but I might be pushing it with 36t. 

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 7:35:50 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

Campy makes a silver long-cage.

[Matthew J]

I have the same preference. Wound up haunting the eBay until a Campy Euclid (long cage ATB Ders Campy made in the '90s) came up for sale.  NOS Ultegras come up every now and then as well.

Really would be nice if Paul or White jumped in with a boutique option.  I imagine the design and tooling investment would demand either an impossible price or volume though.

[Joe Bernard]

I thought of that after I hit send. Oops! I found a nice NOS Sachs Quarz MTB mech on Ebay a while back. You should be able to find something in similar condition if you hunt long enough. If you're shifting friction with 7-speed-or-less, there's some nice Suntour derailers around which will climb that 36-tooth cog.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[Ablejack]

Crazy isn't it? Seems this is what everyone wants but nobody offers anymore. 

I use the Dura-Ace GS 7700 but the 7800 is also silver. Good luck finding a good one.

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shimano_Dura-Ace_derailleur_(7700_GS).html

[Ablejack]

http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-RD-7800-Derallieur-10-Speed-Medium/dp/B001VDSVNI/ref=sr_1_14?s=cycling&ie=UTF8&qid=1338819621&sr=1-14

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 10:21:45 PM UTC-4, Scot Brooks wrote:

[Scot Brooks]

I like the Dura-Ace suggestions quite a lot, but don't Shimano's GS derailers run out of wrapping capacity well before 36t? I just assumed that SGS (or equivalent) was the only way. If I'm not careful, I'll end up with a beautiful Dura-Ace RD and a new cassette just to use it :)

[William]

Those Shimano road models all say max cog = 28.  In my experience you can push it a little, but trying to get a Shimano road rear der to take a 36T cog is bound to fail.  Pushing it 2 teeth is no biggie.  4 teeth is usually a little noisy but it'll work if you have to do it.  8 teeth beyond the max cog rating is hopeless.  

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

What you want is either rare or non-existent. I've been though this with customers before, and my opinion is that it's much better if you can get the one that works and ride it and forget about the color. Speaking for myself, I've never judged a man's (or woman's) worth by the color of his (or her) dérailleur cage.

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 9:21:45 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Some may recall that in the Riv Readers of yore, Grant frequently (as I recall) talked about the Japanese concept of wabi-sabi, which, quoting from Wikipedia is the 'beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete"'. Sometimes it's good to have the "bad" stitch in a masterfully hand-woven rug, just like it's good to have a dérailleur that looks like a robotic piece from Darth Vader's costume on a bike that otherwise has a nostalgic or classic look.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

<Speaking for myself, I've never judged a man's (or woman's) worth by the color of his (or her) dérailleur cage>

 

But rather by the content of his cassette?

---

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:34 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Long cage rear derailer options in silver

What you want is either rare or non-existent. I've been though this with customers before, and my opinion is that it's much better if you can get the one that works and ride it and forget about the color. Speaking for myself, I've never judged a man's (or woman's) worth by the color of his (or her) dérailleur cage.

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 9:21:45 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:

As my new bicycle is taking shape, I'm painfully aware all-over-again that there are very few rear derailers being made in silver these days that will accomodate my 12-36t cassette. Other than the euro LX sold through Riv, is there anything that comes in a plain silver finish? I don't like the look of the black or the silver/black Deore, though it's reliable, easily found, and economical. I've given up on a used one, since rear derailers tend to suffer quite a lot of cosmetic degradation before being offered for sale, generally speaking. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/BMXgk-A_jHIJ.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ****************************************************

To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein.
****************************************************
****************************************************

This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof.

Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request.
****************************************************
==============================================================================

[Phil Bickford]

On Jun 3, 5:07 am, Matthew J <matthewj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Really would be nice if Paul or White jumped in with a boutique option.  I
> imagine the design and tooling investment would demand either an impossible
> price or volume though.
>

On the contrary, both have built rear derailiers (and they were silver
of course). At one time I believe you could buy a Paul's but I'm sure
it was way pricey. Not to be confused with the single speed chain
tensioner he still offers.
Doug White had his personal bike (I think) in the foyer, and it seemed
to have all parts and components built by him. Cool guy.

Coming up with a design to suit all the various shifters and systems
would be quite a task, a thankless one at that. It might not cover
all the bases. Like a 36t sprocket.

Phil B

[Phil Bickford]

Thanks for the link Applejack, I havent seen that site for years

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shimano_Dura-Ace_derailleur_(7700_GS).html


Phil B

[David Yu Greenblatt]

I've been using a Suntour Cyclone short cage derailleur with a Shimano XTR 12-28 8-speed cassette and friction down tube shifters for the past few months with no problems. A Cyclone GT long-cage derailleur can handle big cogs -- 34 according to official specs, maybe 36 in real life? 

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/SunTour_Cyclone_GT_derailleur_%285905_2nd_style%29.html

These neat derailleurs do pop up on eBay in good and even NOS condition on a regular basis. 

David G, Madison, Wi

[Mark Chandler]

If you're running a 36t rear cog, just go with a current-vintage SRAM or Shimano unit.  Sure, it won't be all-silver, but you also won't have to worry about poor shifting, etc.

FWIW, the euro LX is quite heavy, and the stamped/bent steel pieces can develop slop quicker than all-alloy units.

---

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 10:33:36 -0700
From: thil...@gmail.com

To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Long cage rear derailer options in silver

What you want is either rare or non-existent. I've been though this with customers before, and my opinion is that it's much better if you can get the one that works and ride it and forget about the color. Speaking for myself, I've never judged a man's (or woman's) worth by the color of his (or her) dérailleur cage.

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 9:21:45 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:

As my new bicycle is taking shape, I'm painfully aware all-over-again that there are very few rear derailers being made in silver these days that will accomodate my 12-36t cassette. Other than the euro LX sold through Riv, is there anything that comes in a plain silver finish? I don't like the look of the black or the silver/black Deore, though it's reliable, easily found, and economical. I've given up on a used one, since rear derailers tend to suffer quite a lot of cosmetic degradation before being offered for sale, generally speaking. 

[William]

Buy one of these M751 ones.  NOS for $65 is a great deal.  Stock up on them even.  

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Will M751 rders handle the 36t big cog? We've noticed that recent Shimano MTB units can handle the big cogs... Older models, not so much.

[William]

I'm running the M751 med-cage GS right now on my Rawland with a 12-36 cassette.  It has a lot to do with the geometry of the rear drop out as well.  If the dropout holds the rear derailer really close to the axle of the rear hub, then the published max is pretty accurate.  If the drop out holds the der a little farther away, then you can go 2 teeth bigger without a problem.  In my experience, vertical dropouts allow you to push it.  Campy style horizontal dropouts do not.  

[Matthew J]

Ah yes.  I should had thought about that.  I've spent my 20+ years on a bike blissfully free of the horrors of index shifting.  

I met Mr. White with a nice woman I assume is his wife at the Indiana NAHBS.  A bike I am putting together this fall will have a White crank, bottom bracket and freewheel.  I would have built it with a White rear hub as well (front hub will be a SON28) but I have a Royce hub and do not want to waste it.

Cyclists are lucky to have companies such as White, Paul, Nitto, Berthoud and Royce.  I hope they all managed to keep going for many years to come.

[Garth]

Here 'ya go .  I've used on of these for a few years .   It's a modern Silver RD. They still have them in stock .  . .lol.
http://www.jensonusa.com/!xFzOUiKZz4ZvnT31UVLKxg!/Shimano-LX-M581-Rear-Derailleur

 Frankly .. the older Shimanos I prefer , like from the 80/90's.  They've lightened the spring action to make indexed shifting easier, but for friction, I find the lighter spring action a bit too easy.  The older RD's rock solid held a gear very easily. The newer ones you gotta be more precise or it can hop to another gear. Oh well .  .. one's "progress" is anothers "decline" .  .lol ;-)

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 10:21:45 PM UTC-4, Scot Brooks wrote:

[Matthew J]

I imagine this works well, but boy does it look chintzy compared to my '90s Ultegra.

[Montclair BobbyB]

Gotta go back... further... mid-80s... First gen Shimano m700 Deore
(Deerhead). These are wonderful friction derailleurs that will shift
like butter and last forever. Just look at this one... it's over 25
years old.
http://tinyurl.com/79vo4md

Or (from the same era), one of these.... Suntour XC... overbuilt,
bombproof, somewhat klunky, but beautiful and super reliable.
http://tinyurl.com/7sloy5o

I can't decide which one I like better... I have them both and love
em.
(Oh, and then of course there's the legendary Shimano XTR m951 with
the built-in rollamajig... It ain't silver, but there ain't too many
derailleurs out there better than this).
http://tinyurl.com/7zouyp5 (BTW this dude's out of his tree...$125...
that's BOO... I've picked these up for around $40)

BB

On Jun 4, 8:45 pm, Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here 'ya go .  I've used on of these for a few years .   It's a modern

> Silver RD. They still have them in stock .  . .lol.http://www.jensonusa.com/!xFzOUiKZz4ZvnT31UVLKxg!/Shimano-LX-M581-Rea...

>
>  Frankly .. the older Shimanos I prefer , like from the 80/90's.  They've
> lightened the spring action to make indexed shifting easier, but for

> friction, I find the lighter spring action a bit* too* easy.  The older

[Brewster Fong]

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 8:24:11 PM UTC-7, Scot Brooks wrote:

Joe, that Campy is gorgeous but only wraps up 29t per their specs. I know there's a little cushion there, but I might be pushing it with 36t. 

What about the Nashbar/Microshift 10 spd rear der:

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_169985_-1___202435 

The specs says it works with Shimano and max cog is 29t, same as Campy. Still, at only $40, its pretty cheap and worth  a shot. If it works and you want something fancier, then get the Campy. Good Luck!

[Scot Brooks]

Jim,

Undoubtedly there's some wisdom in your comment. Maybe the derailer big wigs will move their design back to the days of yore at some point, but there's no sense in making my bicycle wait. 

Phil B.,

Those Paul RDs and White RDs are awesome. I never knew such a thing existed, especially the Paul in the "rasta" color scheme. So cool. 

William,

I never even considered that the dropout would be such a key player in determining the abilities of the RD. I've still got a lot to learn I guess. 

Montclair Bobby,

Definitely some good stuff to consider in there. Thanks for doing the legwork. 

[Michael_S]

another way to get the low gearing you desire is to get a 94bcd crankset and run a 20T small chain ring. Then a 34 cog will get you a similar low gear. 

The White Industries crank will get you there and there are other available used MTB cranksets as well.

~mike

[Garth]

Well yeah ..lol... pretty much any decent quality RD from that era is better for friction than the modern ones .  I even used a odd looking Sport LX m452 on my Stumpjumper for years after the original ST crapped out. I bought in an emergency at a shop and it still works fine.  I bought a barely used MT-60 for a song on ebay a few years ago ...I'm saving it for a bike that doesn't need as much wrap as my Bombadil gearing of 48/36/24 and a 13-32. It was a bit too much wrap for the MT-60... but for my M737 and the M581 no problem.

[Michael_S]

correction... TA and Middleburn offer 94/58 cranksets not White Ind.

~mike