Thinking of replaceing the clem with the gus. Thoughts?

[NYCbikeguy]

Regardless of the price/value of each frame, what do all of you think are the pros and cons of either bikes? overlaps vs. differences? Ultimately, which would you choose to keep?

FYI, I tend to over-build my bikes and I enjoy riding them, so any comments alluding to "that's too much bike" will be disregarded. 

Thanks,

IY

[Johnny Alien]

A Susie would be a pretty lateral move from a Clem (by description and such) where as a Gus would be more stout. If the Clem covers the type of riding you like than the main difference would be style/visuals IMO. Which is 100% as good a reason as any other to swap frames. I love my Clem and am often tempted by the beauty of the Susie/Gus.

[Joe Bernard]

I have a Clem and love it (same color, formerly Leah Bicycle Bell Ding Ding's). Gus has higher standover, higher bottom bracket shell, clearance for fatter tires, threadless steerer and fillet welds. I don't need one over a Clem but I love those frames - and the name - and would grab one if opportunity and cash aligned. Get the Gus! 

Joe Bernard 

[Richard Rose]

When I measured mine (a while ago) the bottom bracket on my 57(large) Gus was a full 2”! higher than on my 52 Clem. This single dimension makes these bikes quite different in my opinion. I love both bikes but use Gus for trail/MTB duties almost exclusively. The Clem is my bike for pretty much everything else. Having both I simply could not choose one to keep. Sophie’s Choice. I thought but cannot claim I know that Gus & Susie are more or less the same.

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On Mar 9, 2024, at 1:39 PM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

A Susie would be a pretty lateral move from a Clem (by description and such) where as a Gus would be more stout. If the Clem covers the type of riding you like than the main difference would be style/visuals IMO. Which is 100% as good a reason as any other to swap frames. I love my Clem and am often tempted by the beauty of the Susie/Gus.

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[Richard Rose]

I said that wrong. What I meant to say is that Susie & Gus ride the same or at least very similarly. Riv claims they ride the same. I rode a Susie briefly - it felt the same as my Gus.

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On Mar 9, 2024, at 3:09 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

When I measured mine (a while ago) the bottom bracket on my 57(large) Gus was a full 2”! higher than on my 52 Clem. This single dimension makes these bikes quite different in my opinion. I love both bikes but use Gus for trail/MTB duties almost exclusively. The Clem is my bike for pretty much everything else. Having both I simply could not choose one to keep. Sophie’s Choice. I thought but cannot claim I know that Gus & Susie are more or less the same.

[Hoch in ut]

One thing I noticed on my Clem was with a heavy load on the rear, the tail wagged a little much for me. Due to the low step through design. I’d imagine with the Gus’ top tube being higher, the frame most likely wouldn’t flex as much. I noticed your rear rack on your Clem and thought I’d point that out. 

[Tommy Love]

Good points already noted above.  Although I wouldnt say Susie is a lateral move personally, but you were asking about the Gus (which does ride the same as the Susie).  main factors are 1) how big are you 2) what riding you do 3)do you like to sit on top of the bike, or more in the bike.  Clem you sit more in the bike, Ive also noticed a size large Clem rides sorta smaller than a 53 Susie, the height of BB makes the biggest difference.  If you ride trails, Gus will be an excellent upgrade, if you are cruising and commuting, Id argue Clem might be slightly better.  If you are doing a little bit of both, maybe toss up?  Then theres aesthetics, which do you like more?  I lean towards Susie and Gus as the fillet brazed detail and overall shape is really great... but Im not mad at the Clem by any means.

[iamkeith]

On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 1:09:23 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

When I measured mine (a while ago) the bottom bracket on my 57(large) Gus was a full 2”! higher than on my 52 Clem. This single dimension makes these bikes quite different in my opinion. I love both bikes but use Gus for trail/MTB duties almost exclusively. The Clem is my bike for pretty much everything else. Having both I simply could not choose one to keep. Sophie’s Choice. I thought but cannot claim I know that Gus & Susie are more or less the same.

Sent from my iPhone

^ Completely concur with this.^  They are very different bikes, no matter what the descriptions or adjacency in the hillibike category suggests.  Mine are both early versions, respectively.   ( clem H, and fillet susie.  Both 700c though.)  Current versions are slightly different ( clem has longer front, susie has ever-so-slightly lower bb, relative to my version) so my observations might not be 100% accurate.  In each case, the changrs seem to be improvements.

The higher bb on the Susie - and thus, rider's center of gravity - is the biggest difference.  It's very noticable.  But the chainstay length difference and frame stifness are notieable, too.  I don't really feel the different steering geometry.

If you want to ride trails, there's no question that the Susie is better.  I'm kind of a bike snob, so I like the fillet (and/or lugged) construction better.  And the current Susie colors are possibly the best ever.

All that said (and despite the fact that, on paper, Susie is my dream bike to grow old with), I'd  keep the Clem if I had to choose.  Or, probably, have a custom made that is based in it.  There's just nothing else like it out there.  Supremely comfortable and one of very few bikes that I choose automatically when going for a ride.  If I didn't have several other rigid mountain bikes that I can ride on trails, my answer would probably be different.

[Richard Rose]

Yes, my Clem does the same. I’ve tried a few loaded setups and balanced front / rear seems best. There is wheel flop aplenty if I load up the front. But, it really does not bother me. Gus is less sensitive to loading for sure.

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On Mar 9, 2024, at 4:42 PM, Hoch in ut <cack...@gmail.com> wrote:

One thing I noticed on my Clem was with a heavy load on the rear, the tail wagged a little much for me. Due to the low step through design. I’d imagine with the Gus’ top tube being higher, the frame most likely wouldn’t flex as much. I noticed your rear rack on your Clem and thought I’d point that out. 

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[Johnny Alien]

"Although I wouldnt say Susie is a lateral move personally"

To clarify I just meant the type of riding they covered. Since the Susie is the less stout of the two models (Susie/Gus) I would put it on similar ground as the Clem as far as what riding its aimed at. Not trying to imply the ride would be exactly the same.

[Brian Turner]

I’ve never ridden a Clem, but the factors that attracted me to my Gus were:
- 1-1/8” threadless headset: proper stiffness for off-road riding, and the ability to easily swap stems and bars. Plus, I like big chunky threadless stems and how securely they grip the bars. I don’t want to deal with bars slipping every time I torque on the bars or hit a bump on a descent.
- Ability to run 2.5” - 2.6” tires (because I’m running Motolites I can only clear 2.5”)
- bottom bracket clearance
- beefier tube set
- the weight limit thing (I’m not a heavy rider, but wanted to carry decent loads for bikepacking over rough terrain without worrying if I’m pushing the weight limits
- the fillet brazed frame is gorgeous

I’m not an aggressive trail rider, and I don’t typically ride anything overly technical or twisty, so for the type I trail riding I do, I find the Gus to be plenty capable and extremely confident and comfortable. It’s also awfully nice to ride around town too. My favorite tires that handle all the terrain I ride on my Gus (paved and unpaved) are Teravail Ehlines.

Brian
Lexington KY

[Richard Rose]

Thanks Brian for putting my thoughts on paper - every single one of them. The irony is I was I really after a Susie. I was in love with the gold ones & @ 170 lbs. was mildly attracted to the lighter weight. But they were all sold out. When this mermaid Gus became available I jumped. Now I love the color, the indestructible feeling & that front end stiffness & security.
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> On Mar 10, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I’ve never ridden a Clem, but the factors that attracted me to my Gus were:

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[Bill Lindsay]

I say go for it!  They are very different bikes, so as usual, I could justify keeping both.  If I had both and was asked to get rid of one and retain the other, I could easily see myself keeping the Gus.  I think the Gus would do a better job impersonating the Clem than the Clem would do impersonating Gus.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 9:34:49 AM UTC-8 NYCbikeguy wrote:

[Richard Rose]

Bill’s is an interesting take & I think I agree owning both. If I had to get rid of my Clem I could get a second set of wheels for the Gus for more roadish rides. But, my Gus handlebar/stem combo is more geared to trail use & that would not be as good as my Clem setup. Here is the big caveat though; Gus is not a true step through bike. That single characteristic cannot be duplicated & is easily my favorite feature of the Clem. This may not be important to others.

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On Mar 10, 2024, at 11:06 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I say go for it!  They are very different bikes, so as usual, I could justify keeping both.  If I had both and was asked to get rid of one and retain the other, I could easily see myself keeping the Gus.  I think the Gus would do a better job impersonating the Clem than the Clem would do impersonating Gus.  

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[Brian Turner]

Here’s how my Gus is set up most of the time. I typically leave the basket on and just take out the shop sack to ride the local trails:

[Joe Bernard]

Bill brings up a detail I skipped over in my answer: keeping both. My Sparkle Blue Used-To-Be-Leah's Clem L is a perfect shopper/cruiser I plan to hit the trails with when this rain stops. I'd love to find a Gus for the trails but I'm not giving up my Clem! 

Joe Bernard 

[NYCbikeguy]

Thanks, everyone!

I feel like my decision to upgrade is cemented from the mere facts that the Gus is fillet brazed (ie. stronger frame), has less tail wobble (I've noticed this on the clem, but didn't think much of it in the past), and the unique feature that this is one of the very few Riv frames that are 1 1/8 threadless. in 2019, I went 5 day tour on a Miyata 1000 to Japan, fully loaded, and have experienced the torquing of the handlebars in common nitto quill stems, as well as the torquing of the quill in the headtube. I can totally see this issue being eliminated with a threadless 1 1/8 system. I guess one of my lingering concerns is the overall length of the bike, since I'm going from a 52 clem (650b) to a 57 gus (700c). I've already had a hard time bringing the clem up the elevator to my workplace... the Gus may not even make it in there, and i'd have to resort to using the service elevator each and every time. Anyway, that's a minor concern compared to the points everyone mentioned, so that's the least of my worries. 

With that said, I guess my 52 Clem L in RBW blue will be going up for sale in a few weeks!

I'm in the NYC tristate area. I don't plan on shipping because this is an abnormally long frame to ship.

Looking forward to hearing from you all.

Also, Thanks for all the help and wisdom!

Best,

IY

[Richard Rose]

Will you be selling the Clem complete or stealing some of the components for the Gus. I am pretty sure you will not regret this decision.:) If it helps; my 52 Clem has 580 wide Bosco’s with a 135mm FacePlater. I built the 57 Gus with the same Bosco but a 90mm Nitto V-5 stem. That put both handlebars in pretty much the exact same position relative to my saddle @ 72-73cm height. I have since changed the cockpit on the Gus to a Hope Cyclery “Albacore” bar paired with a 35mm Paul Boxcar. This has proved to be a better singletrack setup for me while remaining just as comfortable. I love both bikes.:)

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On Mar 11, 2024, at 4:19 PM, NYCbikeguy <iyi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, everyone!

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[NYCbikeguy]

I'll definitely be parting out most of the components that are transferrable, but I will most likely bundle up the wheelset (Deore hubs, Ryde Andra40 650b's) since I don't have a need for 650b wheelsets for the foreseeable future. I have a ton of goodies that I can include as an a la carte deal, but the base sale will include a rolling chassis. I have a chris king headset on the clem, so this will be considered in the price. You guys are the first to hear about this soon-to-go-on-sale Clem! but I'm definitely going to snap all the pics I can for the photo gallery Riv is building on the site before this frame leaves me.

[NYCbikeguy]

Alternatively, I may rebuild the clem in a lesser spec than how it's built now, but it will still be a considered overbuilt compared to the clem completes that Riv is selling out of the box.