New Rivendell

[Tim Bantham]

Hello All, 

I discovered the group today and decided to jump in and ask a question. My story is like many that you may have heard before. Maybe it's the same story as yours. After a decade of racing and spending tons of money on expensive bikes only to find that I am just not that comfortable on them I have decided that I was going to give Rivendell a try. I no longer race so the word "train" is no longer in my vocabulary. Now I like to just ride my bike for the pure enjoyment. Once I shed the burden of having to put in 3 hours on the bike in pursuit of a training goal the joy of riding my bike has returned.  So in the interest of brevity I will keep my question short. I have pretty much decided that I will get the Sam Hilborne. I'm 6' 1" with a PBH height of 95 CM. Long legs, long arms and a short torso. I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design. As one who has an appreciate for beautiful bicycles I am struggling a bit with the appearance of 2 top tubes. Is there any other 2TT owners who had similar hesitation? What has your experience been? I am wondering if it is something I'll eventually become accustomed to. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!  

[Curtis McKenzie]

Hi Tim,

Welcome. 

To own a 2TT bicycle is a joy some will never experience. I like the look. The second tube provides a spot for the pump to be out of the way. 

Rejoice in you good fortune.

Ride well,

Curtis "who has two 2TT bicycles" McKenzie

On Thursday, July 7, 2016, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All, 

I discovered the group today and decided to jump in and ask a question. My story is like many that you may have heard before. Maybe it's the same story as yours. After a decade of racing and spending tons of money on expensive bikes only to find that I am just not that comfortable on them I have decided that I was going to give Rivendell a try. I no longer race so the word "train" is no longer in my vocabulary. Now I like to just ride my bike for the pure enjoyment. Once I shed the burden of having to put in 3 hours on the bike in pursuit of a training goal the joy of riding my bike has returned.  So in the interest of brevity I will keep my question short. I have pretty much decided that I will get the Sam Hilborne. I'm 6' 1" with a PBH height of 95 CM. Long legs, long arms and a short torso. I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design. As one who has an appreciate for beautiful bicycles I am struggling a bit with the appearance of 2 top tubes. Is there any other 2TT owners who had similar hesitation? What has your experience been? I am wondering if it is something I'll eventually become accustomed to. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!  

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[Surlyprof]

I own a 56 single tube Hillborne but have always coveted the 2tt model even though 2 tubes are not needed in a 56.  I've always loved the more unique look of the double tube and would also really appreciate being able to carry a frame pump between tubes.  Often, when I lift the bike to go down stairs or to put it on the stand, I disengage the frame pump.  The second tube would reduce that potential greatly.

Enjoy your Sam.

John

[Joe Bernard]

I'm way too short for the double-tubers, which is kind of a bummer. I dig 'em.

[Austin B]

I had a similar hesitation--and a similar story (minus actually racing). I was on a carbon Trek wunderbike and after some very uncomfortable years began to wonder why I was fortysomething riding (but not racing) a racing bike. Enter the world of steel frames.

Though I just couldn't get past the 2TT thing for awhile. Slowly I became more comfortable with it--and on the Sam's the top tubes are closer to each other as compared to the Soma San Marcos or A Homer Hilsen. I think the closer TT look better.

I've had my 62cm (6'2" 94cm PBH) a couple months and honestly, don't give it any concern. Now I actually like the 2TT setup because it's different and utilitarian. I also like when I pass slower riders on their go-fasts with it. And I love the fact that my handlebars are even with the saddle with room to go up or down.

[Deacon Patrick]

My Hunqapillar has a diagitube, which is even more odd ball than 2TT. But then I'm not one concerned with appearence, I happily contribute to beausage through mud and rocks through use bikepacking and singletracking.

However, I'd question your statement that "I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design." Maybe, maybe not. I have a Quickbeam (66cm) that is single TT and it rides beautifully, including underbiking on singletrack. Conclusion: talk with Rivendell. They'll steer you right (and threaded, unless you go tandem. Grin.)!

With abandon,

Patrick

[drew]

I really like the 2tt, but understand the hesitation. Sometimes it draws attention, and you'll have to answer questions about it from the sceptical and the sincerely interested.

There are a few big atlanti and a 61cm homer on eBay right now, if you can't come to terms with it.

The pump issue is a legitimate benefit. Hard using a pump along the top tube on a normal bike now.

[Garth]

I got my Bombadil sight unseen and never owned a sloping tt bike let alone double parallel. I too had ridden only level tt road racing frames other than a Stumpjumper . Is the double tt necessary ?....not really but I discovered it makes for a great carry handle ànd is a preferred place to clamp on the repair stand , which being tall is really nice to work on the bike. Aesthetically , I just look at it as different, by now I don't even think about it as it is really just another bike . It is an efective way to raise the bars though which I never would have thought I would enjoy so much ! So what if it looks different than what I was used to, I quickly get over myself and all those silly ideas of what is "supposed" to be , or not, either way ..... so what so what so what ?!! Ride on .......

[Will]

I think I'd give RIv a call and see how this works... It's one of the RIv ready-to-ride specials.

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hilsen-67x.htm

[Tim Gavin]

I'm 6'1" with a 91 pbh (shorter legs, ape arms and torso) and 225 lbs, and I'm very happy with my lighter-gauge Rivs.

I have a 1st-generation 59 cm Riv Road Standard (753 frame) that I've converted to 650 x 38 and I use as a Rando/tourer, and a 59 cm Roadeo that I use as a road/anyroad bike (currently 700 x 32 but it clears a 700 x 37).

I've never felt the need for the added stiffness or stoutness of a 2TT frame, and I'm not light. 

Riv/Waterford can make you a 1TT Hilsen with centerpull posts for a small up-charge, and I would consider that a perfect do-anything bicycle: comfortable enough for a whole day in the saddle, enough clearance for Barlows and fenders, and still fast enough.

A 2TT bike would be great as well, but I don't feel the need.

Cheers,

Tim

On Jul 7, 2016, at 6:54 PM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All, 

I discovered the group today and decided to jump in and ask a question. My story is like many that you may have heard before. Maybe it's the same story as yours. After a decade of racing and spending tons of money on expensive bikes only to find that I am just not that comfortable on them I have decided that I was going to give Rivendell a try. I no longer race so the word "train" is no longer in my vocabulary. Now I like to just ride my bike for the pure enjoyment. Once I shed the burden of having to put in 3 hours on the bike in pursuit of a training goal the joy of riding my bike has returned.  So in the interest of brevity I will keep my question short. I have pretty much decided that I will get the Sam Hilborne. I'm 6' 1" with a PBH height of 95 CM. Long legs, long arms and a short torso. I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design. As one who has an appreciate for beautiful bicycles I am struggling a bit with the appearance of 2 top tubes. Is there any other 2TT owners who had similar hesitation? What has your experience been? I am wondering if it is something I'll eventually become accustomed to. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!  

--

[Scott McLain]

Hi Tim,
I shared your thoughts when I bought my first Riv not long ago. I enjoy the uniqueness of my Riv more and more. It is unique in two ways, unique to typical bikes being sold today, but most importantly unique to me because I can customize it to make it "my own" (fenders, bar tape, etc.)

It may take you a few months to get used to it, but I think you will enjoy the extra unique/weird factor with the DTT. It will be another thing that makes it uniquely yours!

Best,
Scott

[Patrick Moore]

I think that the double tt is largely aesthetic; a 55 or 58 bicycle for a rider not much more than 200 lb, who rides like most North Americans (ie, doesn't carry 200 lb loads of paraffin tins, firewood, fodder, or relatives) doesn't need a 2nd tt for reasons of strength; after all, Rivendell frames are very well made.

OTOH, Rivendell bikes have a certain je ne sais quoi of handling quality; even though I'd need only a 55, and even though I have no use for a second tt, if a Sam Hill in my size took 50 mm tires with fenders, I'd take the second tt, if no alternative, in order to get that signature Rivendell ride quality.

Patrick Moore, who not too long ago owned a 56 cm c-c  single tt Sam Hill.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All, 

I discovered the group today and decided to jump in and ask a question. My story is like many that you may have heard before. Maybe it's the same story as yours. After a decade of racing and spending tons of money on expensive bikes only to find that I am just not that comfortable on them I have decided that I was going to give Rivendell a try. I no longer race so the word "train" is no longer in my vocabulary. Now I like to just ride my bike for the pure enjoyment. Once I shed the burden of having to put in 3 hours on the bike in pursuit of a training goal the joy of riding my bike has returned.  So in the interest of brevity I will keep my question short. I have pretty much decided that I will get the Sam Hilborne. I'm 6' 1" with a PBH height of 95 CM. Long legs, long arms and a short torso. I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design. As one who has an appreciate for beautiful bicycles I am struggling a bit with the appearance of 2 top tubes. Is there any other 2TT owners who had similar hesitation? What has your experience been? I am wondering if it is something I'll eventually become accustomed to. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!  

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The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

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[Steve Palincsar]

A 60 cm frame made of 8/5/8 for a rider at or slightly above 200 lb who
isn't carrying a huge load doesn't need a 2nd tt. Neither does a 58.5
cm frame for that same rider and that same load made out of 7/5/7 with
an 8/5/8 downtube doesn't need a 2nd tt either.

[Lungimsam]

Can one get a larger sized Rivbike without the extra TT? Or is there no choice?

[Kainalu]

The 65 Clem is single top tubed. And for those of you who are long and enamored of the twin top tubed, I've got a 64 Hillborne for sale (see for sale post, but at this late hour I'll go lower than listed. I should update)
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[David Person]

I can totally relate.  I knew I wanted a lugged frame when I went to build my bike last year.  That ruled out a lot of other frames.  It was down to a Sam Hillborne and a couple others but I wasn't hip on the double top tube on the 62cm I needed (94cm PBH - 6'-2").  I also wasn't real hip on the sage or blue that were offered at the time.  Then they announced they would have a run of black and cream frames.  That was it.  I had to have one.  Now I'm at the point that I don't even notice the second tube.

Guess I'm being a twin of Austin B, who responded earlier.

David Person

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 4:08:55 PM UTC-7, Tim Bantham wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/08/2016 06:13 PM, David Person wrote:
> I can totally relate. I knew I wanted a lugged frame when I went to
> build my bike last year. That ruled out a lot of other frames. It
> was down to a Sam Hillborne and a couple others but I wasn't hip on
> the double top tube on the 62cm I needed (94cm PBH - 6'-2"). I also
> wasn't real hip on the sage or blue that were offered at the time.
> Then they announced they would have a run of black and cream frames.
> That was it. I had to have one. Now I'm at the point that I don't
> even notice the second tube.
>
>

Is that because the Dremel took care of the 2nd tt? Oh, no -wait -
that's Patrick...

[Patrick Moore]

"Beat, beat, and beat again."

Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin

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[James Warren]

Tim,

I was con-2TT in 2011 or so. But it was only due to not being used to it.

Experienced (described below) showed me that my aversion was superficial.

Because in late 2012 I got a 2TT Riv that handles well with big tires and fits me and is pure fun, and I have no idea if the 2TT contributes to all that, but I have so much fun on the bike that I am very used to looking at it, and I developed zero aesthetic aversion to the 2TT, and after a few months, it was no longer weird, and after more and more months it became a familiar part of this awesome bike, and along with that came the realization that in addition to any other pluses, real or imagined, the presence of the additional tube meant more more beautiful paint, more beautiful lugs, and more beautiful steel.

The actual frame I'm talking about is in this video that the Riv guys filmed:

http://youtu.be/5VR4KaDeAuI

If the Hunq fits your whatever-surface dirt style, then its beauty will only grow the more fun you have on it. That's my theory anyway, and I'd bet that it applies to other models.

-Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All, 

I discovered the group today and decided to jump in and ask a question. My story is like many that you may have heard before. Maybe it's the same story as yours. After a decade of racing and spending tons of money on expensive bikes only to find that I am just not that comfortable on them I have decided that I was going to give Rivendell a try. I no longer race so the word "train" is no longer in my vocabulary. Now I like to just ride my bike for the pure enjoyment. Once I shed the burden of having to put in 3 hours on the bike in pursuit of a training goal the joy of riding my bike has returned.  So in the interest of brevity I will keep my question short. I have pretty much decided that I will get the Sam Hilborne. I'm 6' 1" with a PBH height of 95 CM. Long legs, long arms and a short torso. I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design. As one who has an appreciate for beautiful bicycles I am struggling a bit with the appearance of 2 top tubes. Is there any other 2TT owners who had similar hesitation? What has your experience been? I am wondering if it is something I'll eventually become accustomed to. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!  

--

[James Warren]

Additionally, my prior reply was very much connected to my own Hunq's dirt-versatility. Knowing that you are talking about a 2TT Hillborne for yourself and not a Hunq, I should point out the following: that 62 cm Hillborne is VERY versatile. I have a 2TT one of those as well, and with 50 mm Big Ben tires squeezed into it, it does most of the any-surface riding that the Hunq does. And of course, it's second 2TT has always been a thing of beauty. (I got it 2 years after the Hunq had already indoctrinated me.) if you're looking at that 62 cm blue Hillborne that Riv sells, I think that is one of Riv's best looking bikes - understated, classic, beautiful. I love that color and the extra tube.

- Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello All, 

I discovered the group today and decided to jump in and ask a question. My story is like many that you may have heard before. Maybe it's the same story as yours. After a decade of racing and spending tons of money on expensive bikes only to find that I am just not that comfortable on them I have decided that I was going to give Rivendell a try. I no longer race so the word "train" is no longer in my vocabulary. Now I like to just ride my bike for the pure enjoyment. Once I shed the burden of having to put in 3 hours on the bike in pursuit of a training goal the joy of riding my bike has returned.  So in the interest of brevity I will keep my question short. I have pretty much decided that I will get the Sam Hilborne. I'm 6' 1" with a PBH height of 95 CM. Long legs, long arms and a short torso. I'll be one of those guys who needs a 2TT design. As one who has an appreciate for beautiful bicycles I am struggling a bit with the appearance of 2 top tubes. Is there any other 2TT owners who had similar hesitation? What has your experience been? I am wondering if it is something I'll eventually become accustomed to. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!  

--

[Tim Bantham]

Thanks everyone! I placed my order for my new Sam with the amazingly awesome 2TT's this morning. I'll be sure to report back after I have had some time with the bike and can comment on my experiences. 

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 7:08:55 PM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote:

[Austin B]

Terrific and congrats! Once you ride it a bit you'll see...

And post pictures or as they say "It didn't happen."

Cheers,

Austin

[Surlyprof]

Congratulations, Tim.  Post photos when you get it on the road.  You'll love it when you ride it and love it even more the first time you put it up in the repair stand without having to remove your framepump!

John (another reformed 23mm tire rider)

[Edwin W]

On the 2-TT deal. I agree that it is mostly aesthetic with the functionality of protecting your pump.
I had a single TT Sam and traded it in for a double TT Appaloosa. I like the pump protection piece. I think I like the simplicity of the look of single TT, but it is cool to have a unique looking bike. Just in case a mustard (or sky blue) colored lugged steel frame with fenders, racks and lights is not unique enough for you.

Edwin
Nashville, where there is at least one other Joe A, but I haven't run into it yet. I doubt there are two others.

[Zack]

I liked them so much I made these: http://www.cafepress.com/doubletoptubesrule

But seriously, it's all good, the function that they provide (strength on the bigger frame, a nice place to grab when you lift the bike, etc) far outweighs any downside from a design standpoint.

I think my 2TT Sam is a beautiful bike, and often hear the same from others who see it.