Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

[JimD]

For the longest time I've eschewed the use of zip ties on my bikes.

To moi, for the longest time, they just seemed wrong for beautiful Rivendell bicycles.

Boy was I wrong.

I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki. Couldn't get around to 

chasing down the appropriate hardware. 

Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties. 

Arguably the zip ties may even look as good (or better?) than machine screws, nut, and washers.

If someone had just invented zip ties they'd be regarded as some fantastic technical innovation.

Light, adaptable, easy to use - a fastener for the modern age!

Slick, easy. Once again Riv's got it right.

Finding myself on the slippery slope, I even used them to fashion a blinky light bracket. 

I'll have to post pictures.

-JimD

[Bill Gibson]

Execution is everything, but I suspect that not all zip ties are equal. UV light will take a toll on the plastic, some kinds more than others, so be vigilant and carry spares. While not in the league with fully integrated design and the custom hardware fashioned by the great French Constructeurs and secured with fine leather and beeswax, if I change up my setup regularly, for fun or adaptations, they are good enough and pretty good.

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[robert zeidler]

With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a "get-you-home" or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's "hack".

RGZ

[Mike]

I'm fine with zipties. They work well and I can't see them when I'm
actually riding the bike. I do wish they were reused.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335973@N00/4635658276/in/set-72157624126049816/

Zipties? What zipties? I don't see know stinking zipties!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335973@N00/4855266524/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335973@N00/4854649341/

--mike

[erik jensen]

i'd wager the set of "hack" bicycles with zip ties get ridden more.

do what works, do what lets you get out and ride quickly and easily.

stop bemoaning zip-ties, i think we all get the point and some of us think it's absolutely silly and even profoundly status-oriented to eliminate simplicity just because you have a "+/- $4000.00" bike. i'd wager plenty here bought rivendells for their fit, form, function; care little about such nonsense; and don't obsess about such trivialities.

oakland, ca
bikenoir.blogspot.com

[Allan in Portland]

If zip ties were covered by a patent and cost 6 bucks a pair people
would be raving over them like bee's knees.

In keeping with the sidewall thread, maybe some one needs to invent
some brass zip ties... Phil's Brassy Ties.

Merry Christmas,
-Allan

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 10:14 -0800, JimD wrote:
>
> I'd been procrastinating about installing mudflaps on the Saluki.
> Couldn't get around to chasing down the appropriate hardware.
> Motivated by the rain, I tempted fate and used black zip ties.
>

A Saluki will fit fenders properly with no hacking involved. Bridges
are correctly placed for a good fender line and there are fittings for
fender mounts. Everything fits as it should do, and there's really no
need for crude hacks on this frame. Do it right, you'll feel much
better for it.

[EricP]

Have been running zip ties for mud flaps on my Sam Hillborne since it
was new. Actually prefer them to screws on plastic fenders.

Then again, the bike doesn't even have matching mudflaps. So am not
the fashionista with this.

Back in the 1980's Moots designed their mountain bike fenders to be
mounted with zip ties.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

[Beth H]

On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler <zeidler.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
> ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic
> tools and use the correct fasteners. For a "get-you-home" or temp repair,
> OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's "hack".

I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with "a
job and bicycle prorities", the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell
bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of "hack". For evidence,
I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed
a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all
manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also
look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on "Beausage" (a word I
still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because
it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is
well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint
worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays.

While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or
fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply
because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for
those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties.

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

[rperks]

I have been looking at all the pictures of the Saluki frames I could
find, and nowhere did I see the fittings for the "mud flap".

[JimD]

Oh, Ive got fenders, hammered Honjos, and they have been 'properly' installed.

Jitensha Studio did the job and those folks don't hack.

I don't think I'd go so far as to use zip ties to install Honjo fenders. 

Wouldn't be prudent, wouldn't be wise.

Plastic zip ties with aluminum wouldn't be the appropriate material.

Now when it comes to plastic fenders the zip ties could be just the ticket.

-JimD

[JimD]

Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.

They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire.

-JimD

[Philip Williamson]

The mudflaps look great. The zips are very understated (and lighter
than milk).
My only problem with zipties is I've had them get brittle and break,
so I don't trust them.

Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:
>
>
> Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
> do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
> They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.

Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.

And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
world isn't going to change that.

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

+1, Ms. H.

+1

(Though I might qualify that "job" with "good-paying".)

When I first mounted a mud flap on a bicycle fender, it was a black
leather mud flap that I mounted with screws/washers/nuts/loc-tite.
Onto SKS (chromoplastic) fenders. One screw fell out after a couple
hundred miles of what would prove to be my typical riding. The zip
ties I replaced the screws/washers/nuts/loc-tite with have lasted over
5000 miles. Which if either solution deserves a perjorative?

And, though I love the look of metal fenders and am soon to try them
out, let us not pretend that metal fenders are uniformly better in
every way than chromoplastic or even normal plastic fenders.
(Chromo)plastic fenders have practical advantages. Metal has practical
advantages. Either is both a choice and a compromise.

Indeed, for my orange Hillborne, I went to the trouble of finding
*green* indoor/outdoor zip-ties to mount the olive mud flaps on my
chromoplastic fenders. Perhaps no one but me sees green&orange as a
better look than black&orange. But to me they really do look a lot
better. Black zip-ties are such a hack. :)

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[George Schick]

I learned quickly when I began working in the telecom industry (over
40 years ago) that BLACK zip-ties are the ONLY ones that will remain
largely unaffected by weather and UV radiation. All other colors
eventually fade, crack, and break. That's also the reason why the
outer sheath on plastic insulated telephone cable is black.

On Dec 23, 4:13 pm, Philip Williamson <philip.william...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 14:59 -0800, Thomas Lynn Skean wrote:
>
> And, though I love the look of metal fenders and am soon to try them
> out, let us not pretend that metal fenders are uniformly better in
> every way than chromoplastic or even normal plastic fenders.
> (Chromo)plastic fenders have practical advantages. Metal has practical
> advantages. Either is both a choice and a compromise.

Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less. Plastic
fenders are cheaper and easier to remove. Anything else?

[Anne Paulson]

And yet, what works better than zip ties to attach one of the huge
Rivendell Saddlesacks to a rear rack? As far as I can tell, those
beautiful big bags are designed for zip ties.

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:16 AM, robert zeidler
<zeidler...@gmail.com> wrote:
> With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic
> ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious.  Learn the use of a few basic
> tools and use the correct fasteners.  For a "get-you-home" or temp repair,
> OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's "hack".
> RGZ

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[robert zeidler]

Very true.  My comment was more about doing something right, so things don't go hanging/falling off., etc., and somehow got all these defensive remarks.  These bikes may get ridden more (doubtful), but they most certainly will be repaired more.  I'm thinking mostly of Grant's zip-tie-ing mud-flaps and fenders.  It's hack work.

[robert zeidler]

[robert zeidler]

Well said.  Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up.  Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is.  Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff.  I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic.  Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing?  It's a comment on workmanship not status.

[Erik C]

> Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less.  Plastic
> fenders are cheaper and easier to remove.  Anything else?

I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side.

[Kelly Sleeper]

Zip ties have a place and many viable uses.  A hack in one place, a good fastener in another.

Wouldn't using zips on the mud flap give more clearance for tires?  I know those lock nuts are limiting on my ahh.

Could be zips are even practical ... At times. 

Hmmmm

Kelly

Sent from my iPhone

[Kelly Sleeper]

Metal fenders front anyway are longer and will protect that light mounted in a mini rack.

Kelly

Sent from my iPhone

[robert zeidler]

They have their place.

[erik jensen]

robert,

for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring.

erik

oakland, ca
bikenoir.blogspot.com

[Steve Palincsar]

That appears to be a function of how well the metal fenders are mounted.
Plastic fenders eventually will crack. Some well-mounted metal fenders
have lasted half a century; other, poorly mounted ones have failed
quickly.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:13 -0800, rperks wrote:
> I have been looking at all the pictures of the Saluki frames I could
> find, and nowhere did I see the fittings for the "mud flap".

Mud flaps are mounted by bolting them to the bottom edge of the fender.
http://www.freewebs.com/palincss/angle_sideview_bag_street.jpg

[robert zeidler]

Not sure where the insult part comes in, I'm certainly not intentionally insulting anyone, it's a free country.  Let me explain further.

I've been reading this list forever also.  People buy these bikes ($3K for a custom), hang the finest components they can afford on them, and obsessively discuss the most minute details.  These are not Box-store specials (Yugo's), they are a higher quality, hand-made object that will give hours/days/weeks, etc of use/pleasure...whatever.  Let's liken them a nicer auto (you pick).  Would you put, say, some garbage wheel cover on your better auto, the same as you would on your Yugo?  Probably not.  It's not a status thing, for the f-ing 5,000th time.  It's a quality of workmanship thing.  Wire-tie the cables for your bike computer?  Absolutely.  Wire-tie a rack, or other bolt-able, screw-able components as a permanent set-up because of some aversion to drills or hand-tools, or work.  I'm just not seeing it.  Not a big thing.  Every mistake one can make wrenching a bicycle (or motorcycle for that matter)-I've made 'em.  Can't say as I liked doing that.  That's all bro.

[robert zeidler]

The ones with zip-ties through the bosses. (Just kidding!)

[Mike]

On Dec 23, 4:18 pm, robert zeidler <zeidler.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:

> These bikes may get ridden more (doubtful), but they most certainly will be
> repaired more. I'm thinking mostly of Grant's zip-tie-ing mud-flaps and
> fenders. It's hack work.

I don't see how a zip tied fender flap will lead to a bike getting
repaired more. The only Rivendell I had that broke (and was
subsequently repaired) had plastic fenders with appropriately attached
VO leather mud flaps. Perhaps it was the plastic fenders that caused
the frame to break?

All kidding aside, I know some people are fine with "hack" fixes and
others just want to do things "right". I've used metal fenders,
correctly installed, with zip tied flaps and plastic fenders with
bolted on leather mud flaps and both seem to do a good job of keeping
crud off my feet and the frame. The only fender malfunction I had was
on a 300k brevet when a bracket on my fender came loose. This issue
has since been reolved by usign some Loctite.

When I first got a Wald basket for my Nitto mini front rack on my QB I
wasn't really that enthusiastic about attaching the basket with zip-
ties but it works fine.

I'm a randonneur and always have a few zip ties with me on brevets.

Grant once made a comment about his bikes being like him, slightly
disheveled. I like that. I'm certainly disheveled. My QB is definitely
disheveled. Right now the Homer is looking good but that'll change...

--mike

[robert zeidler]

...and on that note, Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

--

[Philip Williamson]

I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...

Philip

[JimD]

Well the 'correct' use of zip ties involves purposeful, even tasteful, selection of color.

Otherwise, you are correct sir, it's just another hack.

-JimD

[JimD]

One man's koolaid is another man's pinot noir.

-JimD

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 18:03 -0800, JimD wrote:
> One man's koolaid is another man's pinot noir.

Bottoms up!

[JimD]

Wow, would-a-thunk-it?

Zip ties vs nuts-n-bolts turns into a mac vs pc like kerfuffle?

I can only say I've come to have a whole new regard for zip ties after trying them.

-JimD

[Ray Shine]

Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties?  Pix to back it up?

---

From: Philip Williamson <philip.w...@gmail.com>
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

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[RayO]

Tool kit of the ages: Duct tape, WD/40, magic marker, Leatherman multi-
tool and zip ties.

But my elitist leather mudflaps are attatched to my fancy pants
stainless steel fenders with
frou-frou hardware.

On Dec 23, 6:56 pm, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one
> efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties?  
> Pix to back it up?
>
> ________________________________

> From: Philip Williamson <philip.william...@gmail.com>

> To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
> Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
>
> On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:
>
> > > Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
> > > do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
> > > They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
>
> > Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.
>
> > And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
> > world isn't going to change that.
>
> I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
> bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
> The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
> edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...
>
> Philip
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW
> Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties
if you can find something that works and looks better without (third
condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop
rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly
sturdier and, IME, look better in most places.

Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill
(What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to
the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that
and dress them up accordingly.

OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene
Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course
-- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better
off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively
good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits.

There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now
I feel better.

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com

[PATRICK MOORE]

Toe straps, of course. What else? -- Sooooo much more elegant. (Sorry,
no pix -- my last basket went out the door some five years ago; but
trust me ...)

> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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[Kelly Sleeper]

Patrick,

Thank you for the below argument!! I"m quoting you to my wife as an
excuse to purchase the Poncho and Rain Hat on Riv which she thinks is
weird.. and I just quoted it to her verbally as I stated I needed it
for my mental well being.. saftey and individualism.

Owe ya a beer next one of these days.

Kelly

[Michael DiBenedetto]

^^^!Velcro!^^^

Michael DiBenedetto

www.lifeforcemassage.com

3190 Old Tunnel Rd. Suite C

Lafayette, CA. 94549

925-899-2785

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[JimD]

Well, once you get your mind right zip ties just might be the preferred solution in many

applications. Nuts, screws, and washers are so yesterday.

...as you can see, I'm converted.

-JimD

[grant]

I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke.

Beth

THIS---forget about the pro-Riv context or any associations---THIS
quote belongs in a coffee table book. I wish I'd said it, but I'm glad
to know the person who did. There's only one complicated word in it
("inventor"), but it was necessary in this case.

[Mike]

Jim,

At 09:08hrs you posted about cleaning tan sidewalls and suggested that
maybe you would switch to a tire with a black sidewall. Then at
10:14hrs you started this thread. Was this a calculated attack on the
sensibilities of some of the group members? Your first post kind of
sputtered but this one exploded! Who would have thought that something
as benign as a ziptie could bring so much angst to our community. By
history carbon bashing and trail have been the most divisive issues
but we crossed a line today. This aggression will not stand man.

--mike

[Mike]

On Dec 23, 9:15 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties
> if you can find something that works and looks better without (third
> condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop
> rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly
> sturdier and, IME, look better in most places.

My response:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c&feature=related

;>)

[rob markwardt]

I always tell my 7th grade students...focus on yourself, not what
others are doing.

[amoll68]

Yup, I agree with everybody. I love, and prefer elegant AND reliable
solutions. Zip ties are a hack - but I'm okay with that in some
situations.

Wondering if the OP, JimD, was talking specifically about the
Sackville flaps. See - they are designed to be mounted with zip ties.
I like some things about this flap, but on the front - they aren't as
effective as a thick leather flap (which I have bolted to other
bikes.) The Sackville flap really calls for a zip tie. They look fine
- get the outdoor/UV resistant black ones. I added another pair of
eyelets and zip ties to my front flap, and it works better now.

The Sackville flaps look good, are lightweight, and have that great 3M
reflective strip. It's a perfect rear flap. I think thick leather
probably works better up front:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39151498@N07/5069933431/in/set-72157625138189696/

Alex

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Small hose clamps lined with leather. 3 of them. No kidding. Pix
tomorrow. Wald medium on a Nitto M-12. Works great.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

On Dec 23, 8:56 pm, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Wow!  I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one
> efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties?  
> Pix to back it up?
>
> ________________________________

> From: Philip Williamson <philip.william...@gmail.com>

> To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM
> Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
>
> On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote:
>
> > > Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to
> > > do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'.
> > > They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems.
>
> > Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems.
>
> > And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the
> > world isn't going to change that.
>
> I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and
> bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties.
> The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing
> edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched...
>
> Philip
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW
> Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Robert Zeidler]

I love it!

Sent from my iPad

[Robert Zeidler]

Well said Patrick and may I add-every person reading this is a good corporate citizen.

Sent from my iPad

[Angus]

http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/pubint/index.cgi?a=heritage

From the Thomas & Betts web site:

"In 1958, Thomas & Betts secured a place in engineering history when
it developed the Ty-Rap® cable tie to facilitate assembling wire
harnesses in airplanes. In the first month, sales were $350. Today,
Thomas & Betts sells hundreds of millions of dollars of cable ties in
14 colors, 15 designs, 10 materials and multiple lengths. T&B cable
ties can be found on thousands of products ranging from motorcycles to
spacecraft."

...and bicycles!

I'm not sure about the specific inventor(s), but the company seems to
be doing OK.

Thomas and Betts makes Ty-Raps with a metal "ratchet" (typically
plastic)...I had not thought about this before, but there appears to
be a hierarchy in the Zip-tie/Ty-Rap market.

No more cheap Zip-ties for me!

Angus

[Robert Zeidler]

...and not in anyone of those situations listed below, will you find a Ty-Wrap used to secure metal to metal.

Sent from my iPad

[Beth H]

On Dec 23, 5:02 pm, Mike <mjawn...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Grant once made a comment about his bikes being like him, slightly
disheveled. I like that. I'm certainly disheveled."

Yeah, so I am; but I bet neither of you ever used your niece's
tangerine gloss nail polish to touch up a scrape on your
Rivendell. ..::grin::..

I greatly appreciate that there are disheveled Riv riders, and neat
and tidy Riv riders. Together we make a fascinating and interesting
little corner of the bicycle universe. Vive la difference!

(and Merry Everything to the listers)

Beth, who's hosting a Boxing Day Coffee ride Sunday. (Portland Riv
freaks -- email me offlist for particulars if you want to ride along)

[Beth H]

Grant -- thanks for looking out for me. If this ever gets in print
I'll be in touch about your finder's fee. ..::wink::.. --Beth

[newenglandbike]

It surprises me too that this group is so divided on zip-ties.
Rivendell have always seemed to promote zip-ties and such things as
perfectly apt for use on their bikes. It seems they focus more on
pragmatism and function in bikes than anything else. Yes, GP likes
ornate lugs and cream-colored head-tubes, but to me, that's about as
far as Rivendell goes in the name of aesthetics alone.*

Of course, Rivendell seems to promote other aspects of a bike's look
as well, such as 'fat tires and skinny tubing', but to me this grows
more out of an appreciation for the simple-yet-effective aspects of
these features, i.e. the functionality and comfort. Things 'look
good' because they are functional.

I remember reading an interview in Bicycle Quarterly where Grant
Petersen says that Rivendells are not designed to be fully integrated,
pre-packaged bikes, but rather bikes that can be added-to and modified
in a manner that is purpose-agnostic as possible. This philosophy
is counter to the design and implementation of, say, a Rene Herse,
which has become synonymous with integrated construction.

I guess my take is that Grant Petersen designs the bikes, and
recommends using zip-tie on them in the Rivendell Reader- along with
plastic fenders, un-taped bars, mixed shifters, rubber-band parking
brakes, etc.- so if you are using zip-ties on your bike, you are
using it in the manner in which it was intended. In fact, on the
Rivendell website right now is a photo of GP's bike, showing that he
uses an alligator-clip on his Atlantis to affix maps and other paper
items. Rene Herse may not have endorsed that solution. But you
didn't buy a Rene Herse.

Whether you use zip-ties or something else that works, whatever works
well is more than good enough.




* you can say what you want about extra top-tubes on their bikes, but
you don't know how many crunched frames they've seen from bike-rack/
garage-door mishaps.





On Dec 24, 3:31 am, Thomas Lynn Skean <thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net>
wrote:

[JimD]

The google tells the tale:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_tie

Inventor is said to Thomas & Betts - seems to be a corporate creation.

-Jimd

[Mike]

On Dec 23, 10:50 pm, rob markwardt <robmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I always tell my 7th grade students...focus on yourself, not what
> others are doing.

Love it! I'm a social worker and am often reminded of something my
graduate internship supervisor said to me--"Don't argue with crazy
people, you'll lose every time."

I don't think it's crazy to want to take the time to want to attach
flaps, fenders or other items to your bike in the manner your most
comfortable with. But, without a doubt, attaching something with zip
ties and then not trimming the edge is inexcusable and constitutes a
crime against fop humanity!

[Travis]

Zip-ties are the best option for us weight weenies, haha.

[George Schick]

Here's one solution that uses a combination of zip-ties, vinyl-lined P-
clamps, and stair tread-lined pipe hanger strap to fasten plastic
fenders to a dual-boinger, for what it's worth:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gp_rider/sets/72157611336739952/


On Dec 24, 2:31 am, Thomas Lynn Skean <thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net>
wrote:

[William]

Black zipties are the best fastener for the Saddlesack Large to its
support rack. The best. The used bits are recycleable.

> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[doug peterson]

Whoda thunk the humble zip tie would merit 62 (now 63) comments? Now
that you've all got your fenders'n'flaps mounted to your satisfaction,
weather is not an excuse so get out there and ride those bikes!

Merry Christmas to all,

doug peterson (in briefly sunny So Cal; no fenders req'd)

> > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[David T.]

"Things 'look
good' because they are functional."

Amen. You could write a book on that. Someone probably has. And to all
a good night.

[Way Rebb]

Zip tied duct tape mud flaps half way through their second winter
(okay a No Cal winter):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wrebb/5289538488/

A good rugged bike deserves good rugged mud flaps. Of course if this
was a custom or a Betty I'd use Monster Tape, but duct tape is plenty
good for the Hillborne. :)

-Ray

[Angus]

Ray,

That takes the cake!

Merry Christmass everyone!

Angus

[Bruce]

And judging by the colors seen, this must have been Red Green's bike....

---

From: Angus <angus...@sbcglobal.net>

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 6:25:30 AM

Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again

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[Doug Litchfield]

Oh my !!!

Only in the underground environment..

My Western Electric mentor told me NEVER use zip ties. Pros always sew their cables...(insert smiley face here)

So now, I can't help it..I sew pumps to top bars, cable housing to the frame, bags to handlbar or saddle..christmas lights to railings, plants to stakes.....

D.L.

 

 

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:02 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I learned quickly when I began working in the telecom industry (over
40 years ago) that BLACK zip-ties are the ONLY ones that will remain
largely unaffected by weather and UV radiation.  All other colors
eventually fade, crack, and break.  That's also the reason why the
outer sheath on plastic insulated telephone cable is black.

[Bill Gibson]

Not to mention the expert color coordination and camouflage. The tape of invisibility, juxtaposed with the brightest and the most reflective bits. A study in beausage. Melly Kalikimaka all!

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Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA