Front Rack Advice

[Michael Ullmer]

I'm looking for the group's advice on the best front rack set-up for my Sam Hillborne. What I currently have is the Nitto Big Front Rack with a medium Wald Basket on top. I really like this general set-up, the front basket gets daily use. I want to be able to mount front panniers occasionally, but am finding that the Swift Panniers that I have aren't able to mount low enough to clear the bottom of the basket. The wide-profile cantilevers that I have are interfering with the panniers as well.

I'm wondering what other people have used for front racks on their bikes to accommodate a front basket on top and front panniers. I was thinking a Marks's Rack and a separate tubus front rack, but was finding that the Marks rack wasn't stable enough. Also, it seems to me like the eyelets on the front fork of the Hillborne are a little higher on the fork than standard mid-fork eyelets and this may interfere with the mounting of low-rider front racks, I could be wrong though.

Thanks for any thoughts you have!

Mike

Seattle

[drew]

What swift panniers? I have the same big front-wald basket set up. Swift mini short stacks work fine for me on the lower rail when slid into the forward position.

Alternate option would be the campee rack with the removable pannier rail things which are lower than on the big front

[dougP]

Michael:

I haven't used the Nitto Big Front Rack but it looks like the low rider rail should give clearance.  Maybe look into other panniers?  Doesn't the Nitto have a couple of mounting rails for panniers?  There've been a few versions of that rack. 

FWIW, on my Atlantis I have a Tubus Duo sharing the eyelets just below the canti studs with a small Nitto front rack that supports an Acorn Boxy Rando bag.  I get Ortleib Back Rollers (the big honkin' 20 liter ea jobs) onto that set up.  BUT I have V-brakes which are pretty out of the way of everything.  That's all a lot different than your set-up, but food for thought.

dougP

[Joe Bernard]

I'm a little surprised to hear the Mark's Rack is unstable. It seems to me you could join that with a Mark's Hub Area Rack and spread the load between panniers and basket so you're not overloading the top rack. And it would look awesome!

[Garth]

Soma's Deluxe Porteur rack has rails for front bags .  It has 5 mount points now so it would be plenty stable. I don't know about clearance for wide canti's but here's a couple pics of it with CR720's . 

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-3773699254952/soma-porteur-rack-stainless-steel-8.gif
http://www.somafab.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/soma_rack_porteur_deluxe2_900.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3a/e3/5d/3ae35de52b3bb6156241f72daf0a3b70.jpg

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Mike,

Since you have a canti-Sam, I think you could use a Nitto Mini Front. That's the one that bolts through the fork crown and uses the braze-on mounts just below the canti-mounts. That rack is fine with medium Wald... maybe even large Wald. (See Manny's pics).

I use the Nitto Mini Front (sometimes with basket) with v1 Mark's HAR. Works great for me, even w/o hoop. 

If the wide canti's are causing clearance problems, I do recommend the Shimano CX70. For me, they worked better (stopping wise) than Tektro CR720s. 

Here's a pic of my Hunqapillar with the then-new HAR+bags.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stakx/14795951410/in/album-72157634163491121/

Good luck.

shoji

[Ron Mc]

or try a Paul touring canti up front  http://www.modernbike.com/product-2126191538?gclid=CjwKEAiAoIK1BRCRiMqphvnlwlwSJAAOebPMTmGNwCc8mxH3eyYbYiWId7Fzr6NsrwlvkM3fDwxJAhoCCS_w_wcB  

  

this is the best brake I've ever squeezed 

[Tim Gavin]

Or use the Nitto M12.  It has a substantial brake tang and straight arms to the cantilever posts.  It also happens to be the cheapest Nitto front rack.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Minh]

Just my experience, i use a pauls up front (neo-retro) with a BFR and the clearance is tight.  but if he goes with one of the smaller nittos than i agree, big fan of the pauls.

back to the OPs issue, i'm also surprised that you can't get enough stability with a marks or nitto mini with the Medium Wald, if it was the large i could maybe see that but a medium should be fine.   what are you trying to carry in the basket?

[Garth]

  I wonder about the Mark's rack too.  I've yanked and pried as hard as I can on my bike and I can't get it to budge. I have a 4 point mount, with 2 on top of fork .  I'd say the basket is much weaker than any rack. They were never intended to be mounted on top of racks like they are being done, there is no reinforcement, just wire. I bet it's the wire of the basket that's /flexing/moving and not the rack.

[Lungimsam]

Marks rack is only rated at 4.4lbs. Max capacity with 2 struts, 6lbs with 4 struts. RBW issues a serious failure warning on their racks page about this.

If a person has a canti bike it seems the best thing to do is use a rack with fixed, unmovable struts and fork crown arm. That way no loosening failure issues from adjustable struts or tangs.

Maybe someone who knows more can chime in.

[Edwin W]

I have had the same experience: Mark's rack is relatively strong, the basket is relatively weak. It is a "wobbly" kind of weak rather than a "snap" kind of weak, in general, but Manny posted some pictures of his rack where the wire snapped. I think the key to prevent that is not have the basket hanging off the front of the rack.

Edwin

[Garth]

  FWIW, the fixed Nitto front rack has the same rating !  So the adjustability of it does not seem to limit it at all.

And yes, at 4.5 pounds that's not alot. Yet, how many times have we seen/heard people carrying large melons with a basket ?  Of course this is overloading it , but people can and will do anything just because !  Again, these mini racks were never intended for such overloading by the nature of the tiny platform. They are often turned into not-really-so-cheap porteur racks but they're really not. Maybe if Nitto just made a porteur rack ......

[drew]

is the common failure that the struts come loose from the bolts and the thing rotates onto the front wheel?  i have a mark's rack, which has never had a problem, but it is sometimes wiggly and requires straightening and tightening on a regular basis. my wife has one of those fixed strut ones that goes to the mounts under the brakes and has a bolt thru the fork crown. that one feels way more solid.  ive never overloaded either though, so i cant speak to actual failure points. 

[Ron Mc]

I have a Nitto M18 with diving board and long stays to the front dropouts on one bike, and the Marks rack using just the rod bolt attachments in my photo above, and both are rock-solid.  The Nitto rod bolts are swages -steel on aluminum.   

The reason for the 4.4-lb. rating is that dynamic impact loads need a safety factor of 10 times, so the rack is rated really rated for 44 lbs static.   

[John Hawrylak]

I use the VO Pass Hunter with integrated decailuer on my 88 Schwinn Voyageur.  2 fixed struts to the cantilever bolt and a rod through the fork crown.  The weak point would be the brazing of the strut to the rack body.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Lungimsam]

The Nitto M-12 is 5kg/ 11lbs. rated (for canti bikes)

The M-18 is 8kg/ 17.6 lbs. rated (for sidepull bikes)

See here:

 http://nitto-tokyo.sakura.ne.jp/carrier-E.html

VO says their Rando rack is rated at 15lbs.

[BrettG]

I've been trying to decide between Mark's M-1 or M-18. 
They both seem identical except for the extra struts and light mount on M-1,
so I don't understand how the M-1 is rated 4.4 lbs and the M-18 is 17.6?
If you will only mount on the front, seems like the M-18 would be the better
choice as I don't see the advantage to the M-1 with lower weight rating.

[Lungimsam]

I, too, was puzzled by this and called RIV thinking they meant 4.4kg rating for their Mark's Rack, but they said it is indeed 4.4lbs. with 2 struts and 6lbs. with 4 struts.

So I went with the M18 since it is rated to carry much more weight.

[Michael Ullmer]

Thanks everyone for the input! Wow, I'm never disappointed by the amount of knowledge this group has. I'm going to try a few different options based on the equipment that I have on hand. That should keep me busy for a few weeks. Thanks everyone!

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 8:28:57 PM UTC-8, Michael Ullmer wrote:

[Tim Gavin]

I don't understand how the M-12 with its substantial fork tang and fixed struts is rated lower than the M-18, with its plate steel tang and adjustable struts.  My superficial analysis would ascribe the same integrity to the M-18 as the M-1.

But then, I'm not an engineer.  I probably would have given the Tacoma Narrows bridge an OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFzu6CNtqec

--

[Garth]

You are correct, it makes zero sense at all since the M-1 and the M-18 appear to be the exact same rack minus the 2 extra supports which need not even be used of course, but in no way should lessen it's rating. 


Lungimsam, The fixed Nitto rack I was referring to was the other one Riv sells, the 32F. Riv claims the limit is 4.4 lbs for each.

Regardless of weights and ratings, my point here is to use some sense in regards to loading any rack . These for example, are tiny platform racks meant for proportionately light loads.   If one wants a larger platform and proportionately heavier loads a Surly 8/24 pack would be a likely choice.

[Ron Mc]

I don't believe there is significant difference - certainly the racks themselves are all the same, only the mounting attachments are different.  I think maybe Grant pressed for a safer rating for the Mark's rack.  

[Bikie#4646]

Michael,

This is probably repeating much of what has been said here, but I've had experience with two setups. I found that the small Ortlieb Front Rollers fit nicely on the lower rail of the Nitto Big Rack and cleared the canti-brakes well, too:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/17362715074/in/album-72157652921196589/

I've since bought a new Sam and mounted the new HAR rack. Along with a mini front rack & basket, things are working out well. The front bags sit low enough that, in warm weather, I prefer to ride two panniers up front, none on the back, just the tent on top of the rear Big Rack:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/24287298002/in/album-72157663395643192/

Paul Germain

Virginia