Good decaleur for use with an Acorn Boxy Rando

[pruckelshaus]

I just bought my first handlebar bag, an Acorn Boxy Rando. I am not
running a front rack or fenders, but adding a front rack isn't out of
the question if it's needed. What decaleur/rackaleurs have you all
used with success paired with the Acorn?

Thanks,

Pete

[Earl Grey]

The Acorn is specifically designed for a front rack (with velcro
straps on the bottom that go around the rack), with a decaleur
optional. Instead of a decaleur, you can run straps to the brake
hoods. If you don't want a front rack, sell the Acorn and buy yourself
the Rivendell Sackville BarSack and Nitto handlebar mount for it.

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/sackville-barsack/20-208

The BarSack makes no use of a front rack, unlike the Acorn. I just
bought a used Acorn that came with a VO decaleur. I'll be putting it
on a Nitto M12 or Mini Front. Don't have it yet, so can't say how well
the VO decaleur works.

Cheers,

Gernot

[Rene Sterental]

That is correct. No decaleur is needed. The straps to the handlebar
make it very stable.

Rene

Sent from my iPhone 4

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 06:09 -0700, Rene Sterental wrote:
> That is correct. No decaleur is needed. The straps to the handlebar
> make it very stable.

One big reason to use a decaleur is that it provides some stand-off from
the handlebar. Strapping a bag to the bars steals away most of the top
of the bar, preventing its use as a riding position.

[stevep33]

I used the VO threadless decaleur with an Acorn rando bag, and it
worked fine. One exception that very low handlebars on a small bike
with a long stem may not leave enough room to clear the edge of the
bag on the flat section of the handlebars. I just raised my bars a
bit to fix that. This wouldn't be an issue with a stem mounted
decaleur. Without a decaleur the Acorn bag wobbles more than I like.

Some avoid a decaleur and prevent bag wobble with p-clamps or Ortlieb
brackets. This approach is very slick.
JP Weigle uses clamps: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49353569@N00/4971213280/in/faves-27988383@N06/

[Rene Sterental]

The Acorn Boxy Rando Bag doesn't strap to the top of the bar. It's
lateral strings go to the bottom section of the drop on your drop bars
by the barend shifters. They work equally well with M bars. Not sure
about Albatross bars.

Rene

Sent from my iPhone 4

[pruckelshaus]

I can mount something like a Mark's Rack without any problem on my one
bike. However, I've done some more looking around and found this
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/racks-decaleurs/racks/rackaleur-front-bag-mount.html
which looks like it might work.

Pete

> > Pete- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 9:16 am, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:

> One big reason to use a decaleur is that it provides some stand-off from
> the handlebar. Strapping a bag to the bars steals away most of the top
> of the bar, preventing its use as a riding position.

Another big reason is the quick release feature of a decaleur.
Weigle's p-clamp solution is fine if the bag primarily stays on the
bike - but if one takes the bag on/off frequently, or uses the bag on
multiple bikes (as I do), fishing around in the bag to unscrew nuts
just to get the bag on/off the bike is simply not as convenient or
practical as using a decaleur, especially with a loaded bag. same
goes for strapping the bag to the handlebars.

I also note that J.P. was using a small berthoud bag at the D2R2 - not
a larger boxy bag. I'm skeptical that those p-clamps alone would be
enough to stabilize a large, loaded boxy bag. perhaps it is, but
still - no quick release.

In my experience, a rack and decaleur really allows a large handlebar
bag to be used to its fullest potential - the combination supports the
bag from below and keeps it rigid up top, keeping the bag very stable,
even when stuffed to the hilt. and i can get the bag on/off the
bike(s) in literally 2 seconds.

[omnigrid]

I think you'd like a rack better.

[omnigrid]

decaleurs do have their place, but with the acorn bag, I wouldnt bother. the acorn system is very stable and easily removable. I can take my acorn boxy bag off in maybe 5 seconds. maybe not as fast a with a decaleur, but fast enough.

[LBleriot]

After a number of unsatisfactory experiments, I settled on the new VO
rackaluer. The bag sits squarely on the rack and is fairly stable
when fully loaded, but I still use the side straps attached to the
bars. I gave up on the (threadless) stem mounted decaleur and Mark's
rack because the bag height was a mismatch.

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 8:58 am, pruckelshaus <pruckelsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>However, I've done some more looking around and found this .. . which looks like it might work.

it really depends on how picky you are. that run-over-gingerbread man
thing might work, but putting a loaded bag on your handlebars can
seriously affect handling. the idea is to keep the bag low and
stable. i think the mark's rack, coupled with either the Acorn straps
or a decaleur would be a better option.

The VO stem mount decaleur with a small rack works well - and that
decaleur can be cut/bent to semi-custom fit your set-up (see below
picture), so that helps. The second picture-link below shows
difference in bag size i noted above - you can see the berthoud bag on
Weigle's bike is smaller than the full size berthoud on my bike.
Again, it's kind of a personal thing - I don't like a lot (i.e., any)
bag sway with a loaded front bag. some folks are more tolerant.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22267176@N02/5269320951/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22267176@N02/4917979762/in/set-72157622654401429/

[nathan spindel]

+1 to the added benefit of a decaleur with the Acorn rando bag. I'd used the bag without a decaleur on a Mark's Rack before, but on a subsequent bike build I opted to go for Nitto M-13 + VO threaded decaleur. I was surprised at how much more stable and solid the bag felt with the addition of the decaleur. A lot less sway, especially when riding over bumpy stuff.

If you zoom in on this photo you can see how it looks: http://flickr.com/photos/natan/5374690588/

-nathan

[james black]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:33, nathan spindel <nat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 to the added benefit of a decaleur with the Acorn rando bag. I'd used the bag without a decaleur on a Mark's Rack before, but on a subsequent bike build I opted to go for Nitto M-13 + VO threaded decaleur. I was surprised at how much more stable and solid the bag felt with the addition of the decaleur. A lot less sway, especially when riding over bumpy stuff.

I agree, a decaleur does a ton of good. I have a homemade
quick-release decaleur for my Acorn bag:

http://appleblock.blogspot.com/2010/09/qr-lever-added-to-prototype-decaleur.html

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

[William]

I've used the Berthoud decaleur, which I think is the most expensive
one you can get, and it is working great in combination with a Marks
rack. It is not the easiest thing in the world to set up, so I was
going to do a youtube about it, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
The bag goes between two bikes. It takes much longer than 5
seconds.

On Mar 24, 9:50 am, james black <chocot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:33, nathan spindel <nath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > +1 to the added benefit of a decaleur with the Acorn rando bag. I'd used the bag without a decaleur on a Mark's Rack before, but on a subsequent bike build I opted to go for Nitto M-13 + VO threaded decaleur. I was surprised at how much more stable and solid the bag felt with the addition of the decaleur. A lot less sway, especially when riding over bumpy stuff.
>
> I agree, a decaleur does a ton of good. I have a homemade
> quick-release decaleur for my Acorn bag:
>

> http://appleblock.blogspot.com/2010/09/qr-lever-added-to-prototype-de...

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 1:27 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've used the Berthoud decaleur, which I think is the most expensive
> one you can get, and it is working great in combination with a Marks
> rack.  It is not the easiest thing in the world to set up, so I was
> going to do a youtube about it, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
> The bag goes between two bikes.  It takes much longer than 5
> seconds.

i'm sure the berthoud decaleur is super solid. but you could custom
fit two 2 VO stem mount decaleurs (which work as well as my custom
decaleur) for half the price of the Berthoud and make swapping the bag
between bikes much, much simpler.

[Brett Lindenbach]

I have also been looking into a decaleur.  I recently purchased a vintage French randonneur front bag on ebay (sorry if I outbid any of you.  well, not really ;^)
I have a Mark's rack in place on the front and looked into decaleurs.  While the Berthoud looks very stable, I don't like the paperclip as cotter pin.  For that price,
it should be something more substantial.  The VO stem mount decaleur (i.e. the classic style) looks great, but they are out of stock.  Here is what Pat from VO advised:
"Everyone at VO uses a stem mount decaleur; they are much easier to install. You simply need to remove the top nut. We don't have an ETA on the stem mount version."
So, my question to Nathan and other is whether you like the fork mounted dex?  Does anyone have a stem mounted one they would be willing to part with?
Best,
Brett

[Brett Lindenbach]

LBleriot,
Sorry, I didn't understand.  The stem mount dex are cut to size; the fork mounted dex look like they have a limited vertical adjustability.  Are you confusing the two, or am I?
Brett

[doug peterson]

I already had the small Nitto front rack when I bought my Acorn Boxy
Rando. I just used it with the velcro straps & never did bother with
the side attachments. The bag comes off easily enough but it was sort
of cumbersome to re-mount with the velcro. I installed a pair of D-
rings on the bottom, and use a piece of shock cord with an S-hook to
hold the bag down. Easy off, easy back on. The shock cord has just
enough tension to keep the bag from bouncing around; actually a bit
better than the velcro in that respect.

dougP

[William]

"While the Berthoud looks very stable, I don't like the paperclip as
cotter pin.
For that price, it should be something more substantial."

Please! Mine came with a safety pin, not a paperclip ;)

But seriously, if you think something stronger is required there, then
I suspect you haven't used one. There's no force trying to pull that
foot long stainless retention bar out. All that's needed is something
to keep it from wiggling itself out, which in my estimation will never
happen, even if I tossed the safety pin in the trash. If I do that
youtube, I'll include a comment about that.


On Mar 24, 10:57 am, Brett Lindenbach <brett.lindenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[William]

To be clear, it's worse than that! My go fast and my Hilsen each have
their own Marks rack and each have their own Berthoud decaleur. The
gofast uses an H91 and the Hilsen uses an H121. I use one handlebar
bag for both bikes. That's $180 worth of decaleur investment.
Ouch.

I'm sure lots of folks feel the VO is 'just as good' as the Berthoud
for less than 1/3 the price, just like lots of folks feel that a Surly
LHT is just as good as a Rivendell Atlantis. Both groups are probably
right. Pay for what you want to pay for and do your best to be happy
with what you have. I'm likely going to try a VO for when I go to
decaleur my Nitto lugged stem on my Bombadil. The Berthoud wont fit
that without some custom machining of parts. Custom machining isn't
out of the question, though. My dad is bringing me a kick-butt lathe
over spring break. :)

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 12:06 -0700, William wrote:
> "While the Berthoud looks very stable, I don't like the paperclip as
> cotter pin.
> For that price, it should be something more substantial."
>
> Please! Mine came with a safety pin, not a paperclip ;)
>
> But seriously, if you think something stronger is required there, then
> I suspect you haven't used one. There's no force trying to pull that
> foot long stainless retention bar out. All that's needed is something
> to keep it from wiggling itself out, which in my estimation will never
> happen, even if I tossed the safety pin in the trash. If I do that
> youtube, I'll include a comment about that.

I don't like standard paper clips because they don't last long enough.
I use a circular Clipiola paperclip.
http://volcanoarts.com/cart/accessories/clipiola.jpg I finally had one
fail, after a year of use.

As to the rod wiggling out w/o a cotter pin, yes it will. It happened
to me on Bike Virginia. Not enough so that the rod came all the way
out, but it did wiggle itself out about a cm or so.

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 1:57 pm, Brett Lindenbach <brett.lindenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So, my question to Nathan and other is whether you like the fork mounted
> dex?

i used one a few years ago - worked fine until it snapped (it was an
early VO model with shoddy welding). the new ones look better. the
big issue, which LBleriot alluded to above, is whether you can
position a fork mount decaleur to fit the bag properly. really, it's
the distance between a rack and the handlebars which should determine
the size of the bag.

[William]

An artisinal paper clip! Bike Snob would love that... :)

That's interesting that yours wiggles itself out, Steve. I can
imagine it happening on the roof rack with no safety pin. Hours and
hours of wiggling with no human to push it back in, I can totally
imagine it walking out entirely. Especially if the back wall of the
handlebar bag is rigid and the two tubes bolted to it are lined up
really straight. Then there won't be much friction holding the steel
retention bar in place. I'll leave the safety pin out on my 300k next
week and see what happens with me.

On Mar 24, 12:19 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 12:06 -0700, William wrote:
> > "While the Berthoud looks very stable, I don't like the paperclip as
> > cotter pin.
> > For that price, it should be something more substantial."
>
> > Please!  Mine came with a safety pin, not a paperclip ;)
>
> > But seriously, if you think something stronger is required there, then
> > I suspect you haven't used one.  There's no force trying to pull that
> > foot long stainless retention bar out.  All that's needed is something
> > to keep it from wiggling itself out, which in my estimation will never
> > happen, even if I tossed the safety pin in the trash.  If I do that
> > youtube, I'll include a comment about that.
>
> I don't like standard paper clips because they don't last long enough.

> I use a circular Clipiola paperclip.http://volcanoarts.com/cart/accessories/clipiola.jpg  I finally had one

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 3:19 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm sure lots of folks feel the VO is 'just as good' as the Berthoud
> for less than 1/3 the price, just like lots of folks feel that a Surly
> LHT is just as good as a Rivendell Atlantis.

i hear 'ya - but the Riv/Surly thing is kind of a false comparison.
the Berthoud/VO decaleurs are completely different designs.

at the end of the day, a decaleur is simply a bag mount - it just
needs to hold the bag in place. the "plug" style decaleur is more
than adequate in that respect and it's (i) more convenient to use (in
general, and especially if one uses the bag on multiple bikes); (ii)
less obtrusive when a bag isn't mounted; and (iii) in the case of the
VO decaleur, easy to install and able to be custom fit to a certain
extent.

my custom decaleur, which was at least as expensive as the berthoud,
has zero advantage over the VO mount other than looking rad and i'm
able to install/uninstall in a hurry if i had the notion. again, it's
only job is to hold the bag - one can pay a lot or comparatively
little or nothing at all . .. i've seen a lot of homebrew decaleurs
that work great.

[William]

Patrick in VT

You clearly have a lot more experience than I do with these things.
Since the VO is superior to the Berthoud in the several ways you've
listed, I'll make sure to treat myself to one when my next need
arises.

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 4:53 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Patrick in VT
>
> You clearly have a lot more experience than I do with these things.
> Since the VO is superior to the Berthoud in the several ways you've
> listed, I'll make sure to treat myself to one when my next need
> arises.

no, no. i'm not saying superior - it just has certain advantages
that make it a better design/solution for *me.* I take my bag on/off
the bike(s) several times a day. if my circumstances were different,
i may very well opt for a berthoud mount because i can't imagine
anything being more rigid than that set-up.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 13:39 -0700, Patrick in VT wrote:
> On Mar 24, 3:19 pm, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure lots of folks feel the VO is 'just as good' as the Berthoud
> > for less than 1/3 the price, just like lots of folks feel that a Surly
> > LHT is just as good as a Rivendell Atlantis.
>
> i hear 'ya - but the Riv/Surly thing is kind of a false comparison.
> the Berthoud/VO decaleurs are completely different designs.
>
> at the end of the day, a decaleur is simply a bag mount - it just
> needs to hold the bag in place. the "plug" style decaleur is more
> than adequate in that respect and it's (i) more convenient to use (in
> general, and especially if one uses the bag on multiple bikes); (ii)
> less obtrusive when a bag isn't mounted; and (iii) in the case of the
> VO decaleur, easy to install and able to be custom fit to a certain
> extent.

All that is true -- but for me, the big question is what type of headset
does the bike have. I like the VO threadless decaleur. It's widely
available, inexpensive, and it works great. The only alternatives for
threadless are either custom decaleurs (including DIY) or a custom
modification of the Berthoud.

But to me, the VO design for threaded is not nearly as attractive, or as
adaptable as the Berthoud. Yes, the Berthoud costs more, but for me,
for traditional stems the Berthoud is the better answer -- even if it is
a bit fiddly to mount the bag.

[William]

Patrick/Steve

This makes me want to sign up for that welding class at The Crucible
in Oakland and make some of my own racks and decaleurs. Hopefully the
original poster doesn't hate us for taking his thread sideways.

[pruckelshaus]

Well, for me, a "loaded" handlebar bag would be a windbreaker, a
snack, my wallet (which, these days, is certainly not heavy), and my
cell phone. With that said, I've not run a handlebar bag before, so I
don't know what even a couple of extra pounds up front is going to
do. On my "fast" bike, a 700c rando, I don't have braze-ons for a
rack. so the Rackaleur might be the best thing to try. However, on my
"slow" bike, a 650b path bomber/shopping bike, I did fork blade barrel
braze-ons for a VO/Nitto style rack. I guess I'll start with the
Rackaleur and wee how it works with both bikes, and if I don't like
it, I'll install the rack on the 650b and use that for rides where the
bag is warranted.

Thanks,

Pete

> http://www.flickr.com/photos/22267176@N02/4917979762/in/set-721576226...

[LBleriot]

Sorry for the confusion. When I used a stem mounted dex, the bag
lifted off the rack a bit (because of the height of the headset/
headtube) which caused it to sway when loaded. The dex on the
integrated VO rack sits at the perfect height and the bag sits flat on
the rack. The dex merely stabilizes the bag, but the weight is
carried by the rack.

On Mar 24, 2:04 pm, Brett Lindenbach <brett.lindenb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 13:24 -0700, LBleriot wrote:
> Sorry for the confusion. When I used a stem mounted dex, the bag
> lifted off the rack a bit (because of the height of the headset/
> headtube)

Or, more like, because you had the wrong size bag.

[Patrick in VT]

On Mar 24, 12:01 pm, pruckelshaus <pruckelsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, for me, a "loaded" handlebar bag would be a windbreaker, a
> snack, my wallet (which, these days, is certainly not heavy), and my
> cell phone.

I'm sure you'll find more stuff to throw in there! boxy bags are
downright cavernous. you'll have room for tubes, mini-pump, tools,
more snacks, another layer of clothing, rivendell jack brown coin
purse, camera . ... . i'm always a little surprised at how much my
berthoud can hold. plenty big, even for a long wet ride.

[LBleriot]

I'm not sure "wrong size bag" is accurate. Yes, the bag I purchased
was not tall enough to fit the stem mounted dex, but otherwise, it was
the correct size for my rack and carrying needs. For my particular
application, the VO rackaleur was the perfect fit (and fiscally
responsible solution) for my Acorn and VO bags given the height of the
stem mounted dex that I previously tried without success.

[pruckelshaus]

Well, I have an Acorn roll hanging from the back of my B-17, so that
takes care of tools and tubes, and I have a pump on the downtube.
Might see some use bringing a six pack and some Ben and Jerry's home
from the store on Friday nights.

I do want to see if Google Maps on my Droid X is usable under the map
plastic....that would be cool.

And no worries on the sidetrack, I've built two frames and I think my
next challenge (and reason to learn to fillet braze) will be to design
and build a rack.

Pete

[Gary Schulz]

Brett,

 

The height of the stem mounted dex is governed by the length of the headtube and the stack height of your headset.  The height of the tangs of the dex that attaches to the bag is governed by the size of the bag and the rack.  In my case (headtube length 14cm), the stem mounted dex sits about 3-4cm above the part of the dex tangs attached to the bad, lifting the bag off the rack.  The VO version takes the height of the stem mounted dex out of the equation.  The Acorn, Berthoud and VO bags will fit on the vertical of the rack.

 

Gary

---

From: Brett Lindenbach <brett.li...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Cc: LBleriot <gary....@att.net>
Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 2:04:17 PM
Subject: Re: Good decaleur for use with an Acorn Boxy Rando