A Homer Hilsen vs LHT - Will I notice a difference?

[Drew Henson]

Are there any surly LHT owners that also have an A Homer Hilsen? I'm curious how the ride really differs, in practical terms.  I currently own an LHT and it's been a great bike, but it's "too much" bike for me.  I'm looking for something that would be snappier than the LHT but still able to carry a 10-15 lb commuting load.  I've liked to looks of an AHH for a long time but am concerned that I'd be trading one heavy steel bike for another, without much difference in the ride when it comes down to it. 

Then there's the AHH vs Sam Hilborne debate I guess, which Rivendell brought up themselves when I emailed asking about AHH availability..  So if you've owned a Sam and an LHT I'd be interested in your experience as well.

I've browsed this use group a bunch but this is my first post, so thanks in advance for any info! 

[Deacon Patrick]

Drew,

Of course you’ll notice a difference. Next question? Grin.

The only way to answer your question is to ride an AHH and/or Sam, be that as a bike you buy or try. There is, however, a reason Surley is called a poor man’s Rivendell. There are geometry similarities between some of the Surly lineup and Rivendells, especially in the touring area, but differences in tubing, various specs, etc make for a big difference in ride feel. Will that difference be significant enough for you to be delighted you spend more to get a Sam or AHH? That is a querry only you can answer. May I suggest saying where you live and asking if anyone has a Riv in your PBH range near you you could try?

With abandon,
Patrick

[Dave Small]

I own a Hillborne and a Homer Hilsen, and used to own a LHT which I replaced with a V-O Campeur for heavier touring.  The Hillborne, LHT, and Campeur all ride like I expect a touring bike to ride, and ride similarly.  I know the Hillborne and Campeur do, and I know the Campeur and LHT do, 'cause I compared them head-to-head.  The Hilsen feels sportier then the Hillborne, Campeur, and LHT.  All 4 bikes were set up similarly except the touring bikes had racks and the Hilsen didn't, so I think the difference is in the frames and not in differences between builds.  

Whether the Hilsen would feel as sporty with a 15-pound load on it, I don't know.  Last tour I took was on the Hillborne with an 18-20 lb load in back and a 4-lb load in front, and it rode very nicely.  If I were gonna carry that kind of load routinely I'd opt for the Hillborne or the Campeur, but with only several pounds of load I'd opt for the Hilsen 'cause it's a bit more spritely and fun.  They're also less expensive and are available now, if that matters.  

As far as your concern that concerned that you'd "be trading one heavy steel bike for another," I don't think so.   

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Drew,

I have a lot miles on Homer and Hunqapillar. Both set up with racks/baskets. 

Hunqapillar was more stable feeling with higher loads-- grocery pickups, etc., were no-big-deal. Homer did fine for similar loads, but certainly did not ride as well as Hunqapillar. My commuting load is occasionally 10-15 lbs with a mail-package drop off, or beer pick up. Homer is great for that, and I don't notice any negative change in handling.

Homer is a faster bike. In my ~7-mile commutes (over many iterations), Homer was 10% faster or maybe more. I haven't ridden LHT, but I have a CrossCheck. Homer is a much nicer ride and can carry loads better than CrossCheck.

Both Homer and Hunqapillar are super versatile: from trails to roads, all sorts of handlebar configurations.

Good luck!

shoji

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned an AHH and it's definitely in the "light road bike" category. I've never ridden an LHT but it has a reputation for being a heavy, stiff ride very much designed for touring loads. Hilsen is a lighter, thinner-tubed, lugged all-road..you'll love it.

[Jeff Lesperance]

My "primary" all-things/touring bike was formerly an LHT (actually two, I started on a 56cm and traded to a 58cm), which I replaced with a Sam Hillborne, which I replaced with an All City Space Horse Disc. During the Sam Hillborne days, I brought an AHH into the bike stable. 

1. The LHT was a fantastic touring bike that handled well with medium or heavy rear loads, medium or heavy rear loads and medium to heavy front loads, and did not handle well with front loads only. I thought the LHT handled well as an unloaded or lightly loaded every-day commuter and weekend adventurer, but I didn't know what I didn't know... until I rode my Sam Hillborne. 

2. The Sam Hillborne handled similarly to the LHT with rear loads and rear + front loads, but also managed to ride fairly well with light to moderate front loads only (though this has never been my style for carrying stuff), and performed significantly better, IMHO, than the LHT when unloaded or lightly loaded. I'm 6' tall and float around 215 lbs, which to me says I have enough weight and oomph to awaken stouter frames, and not all folks will have the same experience with the Sam. I thought the Sam would suit me for spirited unladen rides, until I rode the AHH.

3. The AHH handled medium/medium-heavy loads on the rear or light/medium loads on the front, or a combination of the two, but as weight crept up into touring load range. it took a bit of getting used to managing what initially felt like a bit of confidence-busting squirrely handling. My experience with heavy tour-like loads on a variety of bikes, is that regardless of how odd they may initially feel vs. everyday riding, I can sync up with the nuances fairly quickly. The AHH outshined the LHT and Sam for lightly loaded or unladen spirited riding, over an array of road and road-like surfaces. I decided to sell my AHH because it was arguably a touch small for me, and I was in pursuit of simplifying my bike stable, looking for one or very few bikes to rule them all.

I would not put the LHT in the same category as the AHH. I think the LHT is more comparable to the Atlantis. If you're interested in carrying light to medium loads (which IMHO your 10-15 lbs. commuting load falls into), on the front or rear of your bike, on the road or non-technical mixed terrain, and it suits your budget, I think the AHH is a superior choice. If you think you may want to carry larger loads more regularly, I think you'd still find improvement in ride quality over the LHT in looking at the Sam Hillborne or Joe Appaloosa. 

FWIW, I think the only bike that I felt like I sync'ed up with immediately was my Sam Hillborne, and I own or have owned other Riv bikes - the aforementioned AHH, a Romulus and a Rosco Bubbe v2 and I've spent time on a borrowed Bombadill for a handful of weeks. 

-Jeff

Silver Spring, MD

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[Scott McLain]

Hi Drew,
I own both and really like both. The LHT gets the wrap of being a tank, but i think it rolls down the road very nice and provides a fairly cush ride. The AHH provides a bit of spring on hill and feels more responsive. I primarily like having a side pull brake bike and a cantilever brake bike to enable different tire types and widths. I ride my AHH every day and keep the LHT around for loaded touring trips and bad weather days. They are very complimentary of each other.

Good Luck,
Scott

[Christopher Wiggins]

Drew,

I've owned, and ridden both bikes for the better part of 10 years.  Will you notice a difference?  Hard to say.  I can only give you my thoughts based on my experience of 30 years of riding and selling bikes.  First- both bikes are great.  The LHT gets a bad rap for being "heavy".  I've never been bothered by this.  I don't think the bike "rides heavy" at all.  Is the AHH lighter?  Certainly.  With my communing load the AHH is nearly 6-7 lbs lighter than the LHT.  

The biggest ride difference comes from the geometry of the bikes, AND your set up.  My feeling was always that I was sitting on top of the Surly, and sitting IN the Riv.  There is no better or worse.  Just different.

A final thought.  I stripped my LHT last winter and had it powder coated.  In that time I rode my AHH and a Cheviot exclusively.  My fear was that when I reassembled the Surly I was going to be disappointed.  I was not.  I was every bit as great as I had remembered.  That being said, if I had to have just one bike (horrors), it would most certainly be a Rivendell.

The only option is to own both!  Good luck.

Chris Wiggins

Owner

A1 Cyclery

Indianapolis IN

On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 1:36:07 AM UTC-5, Drew Henson wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Drew,

I don't have time to read through all the responses but I have had a AHH and now have a LHT. Yes there is a difference. The AHH will be a snappier than the LHT. I always do things backwards :) What I like about the LHT is the 1 1/8 threadless stem. If I ever do a long loaded tour then I have a bike that costs much less so less money hanging in the garage. My brother owned a Sam and it's nice. Not as snappy as a AHH but a great bike nonetheless. Maybe consider one of the other bikes Riv is making now. Anyway enjoy the process.

~hugh

[drew]

Ok Hugh,
Not to hijack, but I’m curious. You had that Atlantis and took it on some great trips, and now you have a LHT, so you seem like the perfect person to compare the two. Thoughts?

[Drew Henson]

Thanks for the input everyone,. I am in the Seattle area, and my goals this year are to do more gravel riding and to complete the Seattle to Portland ride.  My primary use, however, is a 9 mile commute (with some decent climbs in parts) with the previously mentioned 10-15 lbs.  I'm really looking for a bike to tackle the commute but also be able to handle the Seattle to Portland ride (another bike will be my gravel bike). Seems like the AHH is probably the best Riv to handle that I just wanted some opinions over the difference over the LHT.  With the LHT i definitely notice the weight on my commute and I want something snappier.

[Mojo]

Drew, I have a LHT but have never ridden a AHH. I do also have a Rivendell road custom, a Legolas, and a Quickbeam. I love the LHT as my pickup truck equivalent. It shines with a load. Where it seems lacking is for hard-effort, spirited riding. The bike actually fights hard efforts. The Quickbeam also does not encourage hard efforts but does not discourage either. The custom and Legolas are a pleasure at any effort level, but their carrying capacity is low.

The LHT will always have a hook in my garage even when I may chose to let some of the other bikes go. That is perhaps because I am 61 years old and hammer-head riding is no longer important to me. Utilitarian riding and touring are more interesting to me now.

Perhaps part of my love of the LHT is its set up. It's my last bike with downtube friction (Mavic) shifters. It also has VO fenders, three Tubus/Nitto racks, low-trail handling from a custom Matchak fork, and SP/Luxos U dynamo lighting/charging. I also appreciate the 1 1/8 threadless stem over quill stems. Finally I like the LHT lack of pedigree. I don't have to worry about the paint or be afraid to use it in harsh conditions. It is a fine pickup with a certain style and flare that pleases me.

Joe from GJT but currently a care giver in ABQ where a bike ride would be a great pleasure right about now

[ascpgh]

Drew, I have a Rambouillet and a Disc Trucker I use for commuting. While not really in the set of comparisons, I can speak to using the Trucker for commuting. I know it's not as responsive as my Ram and it's heavier but it has some attributes I appreciate for commuting. 

For eight or nine months of the year I ride to and from work in the dark, generator hub and wired LED lights are necessary. Riding in the dark, despite lights, still brings on some thumps and bumps you don't always miss, mostly because I'm tired by the time I'm riding home and may not be as attentive to wheel path minutia. To that point, I also appreciate the bike's handling for my off-label use at the end of the day when I am happy that it feels like it knows its way home because of its geometry.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Justin, Oakland]

A riding buddy here has an Atlantis - his upgrade from a LHT. His feeling is that the Atlantis is more responsive, "just goes a bit faster" than the LHT. I have ridden his Atlantis and it is that much heavier than my Saluki (an AHH by another name). They are different classes of bike and if you aren't going to be doing the large amount of your riding as touring, I would hew to the AHH. 

-J

[Jonathan D.]

This sounds a lot like the my experience with a Joe versus my New to me Ram. Hey are very different bikes, though also setup different. The Joe is a lot of fun and carries weight well. I love it with the kid. The Ram feels faster and more responsive but wouldn’t carry weight well. The Sam seems like it can do both well but isn’t a fast bike or a true heavy load carrier.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I have an AHH and have ridden an LHT.  There is no doubt that you would notice the difference.  I've owned a more lively Surly Pacer and even that doesn't compare to the AHH.  Rivs are very responsive to weight shifts, and just feel more comfortable.  You might also consider the Sam Hillborne for your use.  My brother in law upgraded his LHT to the Sam Hillborne and definitely has not looked back.

Toshi

[Lester Lammers]

I had a Bleriot and now a Cheviot. Both fine rides. There is a $1200 difference between the Homer and Sam H. You can take the train to Walnut Creek and most likely ride both. https://www.goticketio.com/train/walnut-creek,ca/seattle,wa/ My two cents.

[lum gim fong]

Call RBW.
I don't see why a Roadeo (if you want snap) can't handle that load and commute. And now you can get it with fork rack braze ons. Maximum snappy riv ride. But call them. They could confirm the Roadeo's carriability and handling with such a load. Ask about stem length too. My Ram got wobblier with a longer stem and front load (7lbs.?). Went back to my favorite length now.

[Marc Irwin]

I've had an LHT which i upgraded with a Hunqapillar frame. There is quite a difference in handling. I always felt I was"turning" the LHT rather than leaning through the turns on the Hunq. The Hunq handles more like a mountain bike.
I've since bought a Hillborne since I wanted a lighter, faster version of the Hunq. It is, and has become the most ridden in the stable. It will handle a commuter load easily and be more fun than the LHT.
I haven't ridden a Homer but Grant has said he needs to look down to remind himself which he is riding.

Marc

[Belopsky]

I say check out the Sam

[Surlyprof]

I absolutely love the AHH but can +1 the Hillborne. It’s a great blend of solid and lively. I bought mine to upgrade from a Cross Check that I had tried to make into a budget Riv. The CC was a good, fun and very solid bike that took 42 Schwalbes with room to spare. I always had a few issues with the Cross Check, though. One, it was both heavy and stiff. Even though the CC was supposed to be livelier than the LHT, I wouldn’t call it lively. Second, the geometry kept me from getting the bars above the saddle. I even bought an uncut fork to raise them which made for an awkward looking stack. The last big problem was toe overlap (toverlap?). Probably won’t be a problem with the LHT. Ultimately, by the time I replaced the CC with the Hillborne, I’d spent just as much money creating my “budget Riv” as I would have just buying the Sam initially. And, the Hillborne has been a better fit and a much more fun, lively road bike, fire trail bike (different wheelset) and commuter that carries 20#+ without a complaint.

Good luck with your decision.
John

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi Drew, I have no experience with either of the models you mention and not sure how soon you realistically plan to make the change or when you plan to make the trek from Seattle to Portland but have you considered taking the trip on your existing LHT (which would seem more than suitable as a touring specific model) and then while in Portland swing by Rivelo for some test rides to compare side by side (assuming they'll have something your size?) 

Unless the Seattle to Portland trip is some kind of organized and faster paced randonneur type event?  If so, then I guess that further explains your desire for something more lively but if you just plan on casually taking the trip on your own then I stand behind my suggestion.

I've often been tempted by that which I do not have, and I too have considered saving up for an AHH (64cm Sam was Waterford made and no longer an option anyway so my Sam vs AHH question = 67cm AHH by default)

Although I aspire to live the one or two bike life it remains to be seen.  I've often pondered the question of what ONE bike may satisfy all my future needs but I know I still have more to learn and a few more experiments with existing projects I need to get out of my system before I'll be ready to make any firm decisions.  It was wisely suggested to me to keep what I've got for at least another year, ride what I think I could live with, and if needed, change what I ride to suit my changing needs/tastes.  So far, this is exactly what I'm doing... but this isn't about me, it's about you... and by borrowing the same logic it made me wonder why not ride the LHT to Portland first? 

[geontemt]

I live in Capital Hill and have a 58cm Sam with drops if you want to try it out.  We can meet up and go for a ride.  I have used it to commute ~7 miles for the past 2 years and I love it.