Surly Pacer sizing

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Anybody know what size Pacer would fit me with a PBH of 85.5?
I was thinking 58 but their size chart looks more like a 56.

Thanks.

Jay

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Also looking at the Bob Jackson Audax end-to-end. Same question but in inches. What size?

[Richard Rios]

Here's my 02 and this is based off an 85ish pbh and purchasing a cross check. 56 for modern sporty bars below saddle, 58 for levelish bars. I'd even consider a 60 If you want them way up there Riv style. Also depends on how you feel about spacer stack. Surlys come with uncut steerer tube so if you don't mind spacers and upsloping stem you can ride a smaller frame no prob and still get the bars at a reasonable height. Lots of variables though just depends on what you are looking for and aesthetic preferences...In the end either should work fine with no worries or regrets.

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Thanks Richard. That's very helpful.

[Belopsky]

It's best to look at the geometry chart to compare, however. The pacer is not like the crosscheck or straggler. I can easily ride a 52 pacer, but a 54 straggler was a bit too long - 54 straggler is a 563.3 top tube, 52 pacer is a 540 top tube. 54 pacer is a 555..

[Richard Rios]

I'm with Grant sizing wise 100% on this one about not letting top tube length lead you around to much by the nostrils. My experience with the top tube length has been it is pretty easy to adjust for with a shorter / longer stem and depending on how high your bars are much of that length can be easily eaten up. Also if you do happen to look at the geometry chart on surly's website you will notice that the ETT lengths in the 56 58 sizes of cross check and pacer are very similar. Doesn't really make sense to compare the smaller sizes to middle and larger range. Bikes grow taller much more than they grow longer as sizes go up. Also surly did a little write up about how smaller frames will end up with longer top tubes due to a number of factors. It's worth the read. So again IMHO either frame should have you close enough depending on what you are looking for. Sportier clubish fastish rides 56, bit more distance / comfort oriented but still spirited 58... If I were you I'd personally lean toward the 58. Again just my .02 and I still think the 60 would be worth considering !)

[Belopsky]

Totally agree that ETT isn't the end-all-be-all, but for something a bit more racey/fastish don't you want more weight on the front of the wheel so a longer stem? 

[Scott McLain]

I have a 58 pacer and I have an 87 pbh and I am 5-11. Fits me pretty good. Surly publishes stand over heights. I go off that with an inch or two to spare.

[Garth]

   PBH is no absolute either, no method is !  This may be the most difficult thing to understand because people are so used to having other people tell them what they should want or be like. There are many variables of why a frame may be "just right" or not, some you can't even put into words let alone any "formula". I look at bike fit as quite personal, as in know thyself as no one else does or possibly could. 

  I say forget about trying to "fit into"  a certain bike or frame. We all know what we really want but for whatever no good reason it is self denied by "settling" for what we don't completely want. Sorry, "money" is not a limiting factor, it's just another excuse which amounts to nothing.  This is not good or bad, it is what it is, not much as the perfect ride is all that matters !

[Richard Rios]

Absolutely. There is no exact method for sizing a bike. Personal preference plays a huge role. After going round and around about the whole finding the "perfect" frame size...I have resigned myself to the whole F@#! it get a close enough frame size, to which there are no major compromises and it looks ok to my eye and shazam! Happiness and lots of bike riding ensues! Rather than the wring my hands and worry about a few mm here or there and constantly kick myself for not having had bought the other size frame camp. The "perfect" frame size or bike for that matter only exists in our minds. And as always the question of perfect for what? But this is not to say it isn't fun or worthwhile to discuss what the perfect frame / bike might be and why...Because we all know it is. :) But a suggestion was asked for and usually any one person should be able to ride at least 3 different frame sizes in 2cm incraments pretty happily. With the starting place for that being saddle / pbh range ...becauae ya gotta start somewhere and it was offered by the OP, which suggests it is an important sizing parameter for him. I think that problems pop up when people want or end up at the opposite extremes / high bars and the smallest frame possible when the bike is not designed for that. Then they get miffed and say all kinda bad stuff about the bike and the person who recomended the size. With that said, back to the question. A 58 would really seem to be the safest bet in this situation and subsequently my recomendation based on info offered. Jay provides his pbh which would suggest that is what is important to him about how he sizes a bike. Had he offered torso length or reach numbers it might have suggested different priorities size wise, maybe he has a long torso...but the 58cm would prolly offer the most versatility for higher or lower bars without extreme stems or spacer stack. The 56 and 60 will both work but they will commit to a racier or comfort driven position. Which all depends on info he knows that we dont. Therefore he can take the suggestion FWIW and make a decision based on his priorities and hopefully feel a little bit more comfortable about his purchase if he has to buy the bike sight unseen. Which is the point of asking such a question...I think ;^)

[Belopsky]

My PBH is 83.x. If I was going to get a Pacer, it'd be a 52 or 54, but certainly I would not want to go 56 because then i'd need a real short stem which IMO does not work for that bike..

the question is, and pardon if it was mentioned, but does Jay want drop bars or not? If not, well then yes, can go quite big as long as your boys dont hit the top tube

[Richard Rios]

I don't think it was mentioned and it's a great point about the bars. Lots of stuff plays into sizing. Perhaps he would like to offer more info and someone could offer a more specific response. Or maybe he was already leaning towards one and was looking for a bit of reassurance. Don't know. Hopefully some of the feedback he gets will be helpful though. I know I've bought a few bikes sight unseen for ok, better, and worse. It's a tough spot to be in because nice bikes can be kinda expensive and you tend to lose your butt if you decide to sell cause you don't dig the fit. Had happened to me a few times. For example I originally bought a 52 Sam H. And after riding and remeasuring my PBH decided it was a bit small...so then I bought a 56 and wow that felt like a huge jump in size. I never got comfortable and sold it. Truth be told they were technically both fine and great bikes But I was doing the whole hand wringing thing. In the end though a 56 atlantis feels much better to me then either of the sams...any way lost my behind on both bikes / frames so the topic is kinda close to my heart and if I can help a brother out in this area I do my best to point in a reasonable direction. I think performance / competitive has a fit calculator out there that offers three frame sizes calling them french, eddy, and something else...maybe try that see what shakes out.

[Igor Belopolsky]

I had a 56 Sam that was too long for drop bars for me but perfect w some upright ones, alas I sold it.

The now 51 would be a good fit for me if I was to buy another

On Thursday, September 22, 2016, Richard Rios <richard...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think it was mentioned and it's a great point about the bars. Lots of stuff plays into sizing. Perhaps he would like to offer more info and someone could offer a more specific response. Or maybe he was already leaning towards one and was looking for a bit of reassurance. Don't know. Hopefully some of the feedback he gets will be helpful though. I know I've bought a few bikes sight unseen for ok, better, and worse. It's a tough spot to be in because nice bikes can be kinda expensive and you tend to lose your butt if you decide to sell cause you don't dig the fit. Had happened to me a few times. For example I originally  bought a 52 Sam H. And after riding and remeasuring my PBH decided it was a bit small...so then I bought a 56 and wow that felt like a huge jump in size. I never got comfortable and sold it. Truth be told they were technically both fine and great bikes But I was doing the whole hand wringing thing. In the end though a 56 atlantis feels much better to me then either of the sams...any way lost my behind on both bikes / frames so the topic is kinda close to my heart and if I can help a brother out in this area I do my best to point in a reasonable direction. I think performance / competitive has a fit calculator out there that offers three frame sizes calling them french, eddy, and something else...maybe try that see what shakes out.

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[Richard Rios]

Ha! that's funny because I've been thinking that about the 55 !)

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Thanks guys.

I was toying with the idea of something a little lighter and sportier than my 56 Sam.
The Sam felt a tiny long for me with Noodles, even with an 8 cm stem. Much better since I changed to Albas and an 11 cm stem a couple years ago. Bars more or less level with the saddle depending on fitness etc.

Since Surly won't allow their dealers to ship, the Bob Jackson end to end Audax was a tempting alternative. With the weak pound i could get a frame and fork shipped for around $700.
They suggested a 22.5 of 23" frame which works out to either just shy of 58 cm or a bit over. Either way would probably be fine.

Unfortunately, as my wife has correctly and repeatedly pointed out, I live in an apartment and have no room (or need) for another bike. I could replace the Sam, but I don't think I want to.

Jay

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:23:53 AM UTC+3, Belopsky wrote:

I had a 56 Sam that was too long for drop bars for me but perfect w some upright ones, alas I sold it.

The now 51 would be a good fit for me if I was to buy another

On Thursday, September 22, 2016, Richard Rios <richard...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think it was mentioned and it's a great point about the bars. Lots of stuff plays into sizing. Perhaps he would like to offer more info and someone could offer a more specific response. Or maybe he was already leaning towards one and was looking for a bit of reassurance. Don't know. Hopefully some of the feedback he gets will be helpful though. I know I've bought a few bikes sight unseen for ok, better, and worse. It's a tough spot to be in because nice bikes can be kinda expensive and you tend to lose your butt if you decide to sell cause you don't dig the fit. Had happened to me a few times. For example I originally  bought a 52 Sam H. And after riding and remeasuring my PBH decided it was a bit small...so then I bought a 56 and wow that felt like a huge jump in size. I never got comfortable and sold it. Truth be told they were technically both fine and great bikes But I was doing the whole hand wringing thing. In the end though a 56 atlantis feels much better to me then either of the sams...any way lost my behind on both bikes / frames so the topic is kinda close to my heart and if I can help a brother out in this area I do my best to point in a reasonable direction. I think performance / competitive has a fit calculator out there that offers three frame sizes calling them french, eddy, and something else...maybe try that see what shakes out.

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