ISO Roadini...or?

[Brenton Eastman]

Hi all,

I have really fallen for these luscious new Roadini builds I've seen at Riv and Blue Lug.

I have a Sam Hillborne and love it. It's been through several iterations of cockpit/racks/bags/brakes/wheels/tires and all have been really fun. Right now it has flat bars with sweep, chunky 47mm tires, and is an excellent all around adventure/trail/camping ride. It's currently my only bike!

Before the Sam, I rode 90s road bikes exclusively for 20 years, and those worked great for city/commuting/neighborhood/pub rides. I've heard that the Roadini does NOT offer that kind of ride/speed/feel/handling/gusto/whatever, from several folks in this group.

So am I fooling myself into thinking another $2500 Riv build is going to scratch the itch? Or should I buy a <$500 Japanese Road Bike that can hold 33s and actually feel some performance?

[Doug H.]

This paragraph is from Will's recent email... If this sounds like what you're looking for then I say buy one. 

"Yes, the Roadini is heavier than a carbon frame, but, and even though it's a cliche phrase at this point, it rides light and I don't care if I'm two minutes slower than my alternate-universe self who rides a carbon bike. I still feel fast on it, and I'm not racing anybody anyway, even myself. My bike priorities are safety, comfort, reliability, and the ability to stretch the bike beyond it's stated purpose. Most of you aren't able to come test ride one before you buy, but those that do invariably say something like, "it's faster than I thought it would be!". It's always been more about the rider than the frame, but I know what they mean."

Doug

[Brenton Eastman]

I've read everything Riv Staff has written on the Roadini and I believe they are being honest. Lot's of folks here though, have said it's underwhelming. 

The geometry is remarkably similar to the Hillborne and I guess I don't know if it makes sense. 

[Eric Marth]

Over on the iBOB forum there's some discussion from time to time of how the Roadini and the Ram are overbuilt and don't have the performance and response characteristics typical of lively road frames. I myself haven't ridden one, this is a take I've observed time and time again from others. 

I'm currently looking out for a springy lightweight road bike myself that fits a 32mm tire. I'm not considering any past or present frames from Rivendell. I recently started a thread on iBOB asking about old plush frames that fit a 700x32mm tire. You can check it out here, but you might need to be a list member to view: https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/gvwRER6T3JE

Compared to the 90s road bikes you have in mind it's unlikely a Roadini will feel the same. I know it might not be practical but I'd say the best way to see if the Roadini is right for you is to test ride one for yourself! I do love the new Sergio Green. 

[Brenton Eastman]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards an RB-1 or something similar. 

Swap in some Noodles and a reasonable stem, ~30mm tires, and try it out. Definitely less risky than $2500 for a new bike from Riv.

[Piaw Na]

A drop bar Roadini with 25mm tires will feel great. With 32mm tires it's not going to feel like a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 with 700x23 tires! But you already knew that. I don't think there's anything disappointing about the Roadini's ride. I think the extra long chainstay takes away from the "stick up your butt" feel of shorter chainstay bikes but that's a feature not a bug. I think you cannot compare anything with modern sized tires to a road bike that was optimized for 23mm tires way back when. Now if you're looking for lightweight you shouldn't be looking at a Rivendell.

[Joe Bernard]

It's sacrilege to say but if you want a zippy road bike as a compliment to what you already have - a steel Rivendell road bike - for $1000 or less you can scoop up an aluminum Trek/Cannondale/Specialized/Giant off Craigslist and probably have a lot of fun. And you can test ride it! 

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:14:40 PM UTC-7 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

[exliontamer]

An RB-1 is a relatively heavy bike especially in 59cm & up & I wouldn't be surprised if the Roadini is the same or possibly lighter. That said, I don't think that's a bad thing depending on the frame size, your personal pedaling style/power, weight, etc. When I was focused on only riding fast I had a 59cm frame with EL/OS tubing that was very thin walled, flexy, & light. I'm 6'1" & weighed 160lbs at the time & that bike was too whippy for me personally. It took getting a '93 RB-1 (62cm wouldn't fit a 32 btw)  to make me realize that I preferred a stiffer frame...also my average speed increased even though the bike didn't "plane" & was 2 lbs heavier. 

I'm glad Jan & that crew are doing their thing but the message can get tedious. I'm sure it works for some people but a lot of it seems to be presented in a one size fits all way. All that said there are a lot of 90s steel frames that will fit a 28. Plenty of affordable lugged Bianchis that will be lighter and less expensive than the RB-1. I also second the used aluminum recommendation. Even the new Cannondale Optimo has clearance for 32s and, as long as a carbon fork doesn't freak you out, starts at 1k for a complete bike that's solidly spec'd and has rim brakes. 

[Eric Daume]

If the Roadini with its double oversized tubing is lighter than an RB1… I would be very surprised. I’ve owned both, but probably 20 years apart. But tall head tubes, long chainstays, and heavy tubing all add up quickly. 

Eric

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[Johnny Alien]

The RB's in the 90's were advertised as around 22 lb total for a mid-sized frame and that was built with a lot of non-light parts. I would guess the frame is lighter weight and flexier than a roadini.

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[Eric Marth]

I wish I had a breakdown by model and year (I don't!) but the Bridgestone RB series varied the tire clearances by year. Some years fit a bigger tire than others. For example, the TIG welded 1990 RB-2 could clear a 32mm tire. I haven't encountered apocrypha indicating any RB-1 could clear more than a 28mm. 

More on that 1990 RB-2 here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/pdfs/bstoneRB2synergy1990.pdf

As Ex Lion Tamer alludes to, there are other frames out there you can find that are cheaper than a top tier Bridgestone. Those frames have a lot of cache and often are not cheap. 

Here's another helpful iBOB thread with some discussion on RB-1 ride quality and suggestions for other frames to seek out: https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/IYFf1tLmYPM/ 

Grant would say that any Riv is better than any Bridgestone. Better made and without compromises. If your POV on tubing and geometry aligns with Grant's then Robert's your mother's brother. 

[JohnS]

I completed my '82 Specialized Sequoia build and couldn't be happier with it. Great feel, it has that, when I say jump, it says, how high feeling to it. It replaces my Surly Pacer which had a great fit but in comparison, was flat/dull. I'll post a few pics and a write up over the weekend. Highly recommend finding an early one if you can. Fits RH 700x32 tires cleanly, not sure if they would work with fenders, I'll check.

JohnS

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 8:24:18 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

[Piaw Na]

My '93 RB-1 fit 32mm Avocet inverted thread cross-type tires. I bought the frame and fork (it came with a headset) and weighed it at the time. It was 6.2 pounds or so (corroborated here: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/778487-bridgestone-rb-1-1993-a.html). My Roadini, by contrast weighed about a pound more. I put some parts I had lying around and on it and it weighed about 22 pounds ready to ride (pedals, bottle cages, etc). I can't tell whether it's stiffer, but it's definitely more flexy than my Ti touring bike which has 43cm chainstays and is modeled after the RB-1.

[Brian Cunningham]

Since I now own both a Sam and a Roadini (as of last month), the latter is noticeably zippier. The difference I feel in going from a stop to accelerating to a normal cruising speed is palpable. The Roadini just gets there faster and climbs more nimbly. My feelings seem to be supported by data. Now we’re not talking crazy differences in speed, but my rather flat commute   is somewhere around 14mph on the Sam and exceeds 15mph on the Roadini. (Though nobody rides a riv to break speed records, I like mapping my rides to keep track of mileage, and as a side benefit, I get to see the speeds, too.)

The Sam has a nitto rack/Wald 137/sugarloaf, while the Roadini has just a Fab’s Abs handlebar bag and a tiny Acorn bag in the rear for tools/tubes/patch kit. 

At this point I see myself leaning on the Roadini except in cases where I need to carry more stuff. Tire clearance is about the same between my 2015 side pull Sam and ‘22 Roadini. The Sam of course has braze-ons that the Roadini doesn’t. 

Hope this helps,

Brian

[Tim Bantham]

Well I was all set to buy one of these Roadini frames today but now I'm having second thoughts. Like some of you have mentioned I find them aesthetically pleasing (especially the Sergio's Green) but I am feeling unsure about whether or not I would be happy with how it rides.  I've churned through too many bikes and I just don't want to make the same mistake.. It's an affliction that we all share. I have a Sam that I absolutely love. It's my first Riv and I decided that I never want to part with it.  My only other experience with a tig welded Riv was a Clem H. I realize that this is subjective but the Clem H didn't do it for me at all. I sold it not long after I finished the build.
I'm afraid I might have the same experience with a the Roadini. I feel like I need to trust my instincts but the pull of FOMO is very strong.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I wrote 2 reviews of my Roadini: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html, https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/putting-together-my-roadini.html

It's a great bike. If you like Grant designed bikes, you will like the Roadini. But you have to be sure you want a road bike.

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[Brent Eastman]

There's so much subjectivity here. I love hearing different experiences and opinions. My plan is to hold out and see if some of the underwhelmed folks offer up their Roadini's for sale. In the meantime I'll be cruising Craigslist and the like for a 58ish Bridgestone RB, or similar, that I can try out and see if I don't just stick with Sam H 100% of the time like I have been for 2 years. 

[Brian Cunningham]

As someone who’s bought four Rivs over the last 14 years and has never bought one new (sorry, Grant! I still buy plenty of parts and accessories from the site!), waiting and letting someone else do the depreciating is fine as long as you’re happy with your current stable. I acquired my complete, virtually new Roadini, for only a few hundred dollars more than I would pay for the frame & fork to be shipped to me & inclusive of sales tax…

That said, I am super enamored with the Roadini!

Brian

Muddying the waters in Glendale, CA

[Eliot Balogh]

Erik,

See if you can’t find a Gunnar Sport (or Waterford)

I love mine and with VO calipers (which are excellent) it clears 35mm.  I run the 32mm RH slicks. 

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[exliontamer]

Just going to throw this out there about the RB-1. Here's the actual tubing spec and not what was listed in the literature. All of the 59cm & up used the heaviest tubes in this set btw. My 62cm weighed in at 7.8 lbs for the f/f/hs

https://web.archive.org/web/20160802144339/http://johndogfood.com/john/1993_DLR/reduced-1600/Bridgestone_Dealer_1993_10.jpg

I know smaller frames are a little different (smaller frames are generally lighter) , and I know it's blaspheme to some people, but they're not all that. I love the way they ride but I don't think they deserve the holy grail cult status they're given. They're overbuilt for some people (not me) and the tire clearance is not typically great. I take calipers out and I can honestly tell you that my '93 would not clear a true 30. 

There's a lot to be said with getting what your heart is set on though & confirmation bias is a powerful thing. A Gunnar or Waterford will be a much better choice if you're looking for zip & clearance. Also the Roadini is an amazingly designed bike. I've talked to Riv about it and they cut down the tubes to the lightest butting possible so the 57cm & 54cm (not sure what you're size is) will be noticeably lighter than the 61 frame. I have no personal experience with the Roadini but my wife got the 50cm & loves it more than her old (lightweight) Colnago & Battaglin. 

[Eric Marth]

Brenton — Other modern production frames to consider: Crust Lightning Bolt and Molocchio? 

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

The Malocchio looks interesting --- low BB and a nice headset. But it's not any cheaper than a Roadini (though it might very well be lighter!).

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[Brian Cunningham]

…and as of 1:30pm the Sergio Green in 54cm is the first to sell out.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

As a huge fan of the Roadini, I'm not surprised. I think it's still the most versatile bike in the Rivendell list of models. Maybe the A Homer Hilsen would be close, but then you start running into issues with packing that bike into a case for travel.

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[J S]

I have a question regarding the Roadini vs. the old Saluki and Bleriot bikes. I wonder how similar it is to these? I have a Sam and found a Saluki in my size so sold my Bleriot. I am not a fan of the loooong chainstays, so the Sam works perfectly for someone like me. I have fat 48mm tires on it and 42’s on the Saluki. Speed is a non issue or will be when my knees let me ride again. As I get older a go fast bike would be at the bottom of my list, but I did love my old go fast bikes when I was much younger. 

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 9:14:40 PM UTC-4 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

The Saluki/Bleriot were 650B bikes, not 700c bikes. Wheel size makes a world of difference to me.

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[Michael Hammer]

I was going to hold back adding to this thread but now can't resist.  I was the original owner of a 92 RB-1 and sent it off to a new owner about 4 months ago.  It was light, "jumped" when I got on it (consider I'm 74 when reading jump), climbed like crazy and handled smoothly and predictably.  Largest tire it would take was a 28.  I got a Roadini from the last batch in order to get wider tires and built it up with the cockpit, drive train and wheels (now with 38 Gravelking slicks) from the RB-1.  It is smooth, agile and handles exactly like a Grant bike.  It feels noticeably heavier than the RB-1 when lifting it, doesn't feel heavy on the move but doesn't climb as well.  On a curvy, small rises, downhill switchbacks bike trail for 10 - 15 miles any difference in time is lost in the wind conditions.  I had a very early Waterford All Rounder that always felt slow compared to the RB-1; the Roadini doesn't.  Then a friend made a permanent loan of a Gunnar Crosshairs cross bike with a comparable build to the Roadini.  Aside from the quick handling and high bottom bracket geometry, the frame is great; snappy and climbs and fits 38s.  This is my first and only experience with a cross bike.  I second the suggestion above to consider a Gunnar road sport or Waterford.  If a Gunnar road bike had similar comfort, handling and tire size to the Roadini I'd take it in a heartbeat.  But, it is at least 50% more expensive than the Roadini and Gunnar/Waterford are shutting down.  My wife has a Black Mountain Road v2 which is a really nice bike and fits 32s and maybe 33.3s according to Mike Varley.  But, he doesn't make them anymore.  My wife's is too small to really ride, but felt great and RB-1 like doing loops on the driveway.  And, about as light when lifting into the van.  Good luck.

[Tim Bantham]

I think we all have bikes that we regret letting go of. I had a custom Gunnar Sport. They called it made to measure so it wasn't 100% custom but it was fit to me where it counts. This was a beautiful tig welded steel frame with an Enve fork. It accepted 32s and rode like a dream. I ended up having a stuck seatpost on this bike and the frame ultimately was ruined when I had a friend take it to a machine shop in attempt to extract the post. This is a bike I wish I still had. If you can find one out there I would second the recommendation if a Gunnar suits you.

[Peter Bridge]

Since JohnS brings up the Sequoia, I have one like his, 1982, 60cm, which I need to move along.  It's a bit too big for me, and it's redundant because I also have a 1981 Sequoia.   Currently built upright rather than drops.  Tires in the photo are 33.  

Peter Bridge

Sebastopol CA 

[danielle da cruz]

Thanks for posting your most recent review, Piaw. I've been eyeing the Roadini after losing a fun 80s Peugeot to an SUV running a red light last summer. I have a Cheviot that I adore but found myself always grabbing the Peugeot for my three-mile road commute into work, or even for just fun, spritely rides along the Charles River here in Cambridge. I reached out to Will at the time to see if he thought the Roadini might give me close to the experience I had on the smashed bike and I trust his assessment that it will feel lighter and more nimble than the Cheviot. Also loving the Sergio's Green, same as the OP....3pm can't get here fast enough :)

[Chasen Smith]

I am about 200 miles into my orange-ass roadini and I love it. Set up with a23s, dirt drops, cavas and an analog 30mm stem. It is not flexy and light like my rb 2. It is no sports car. Its like a benz, smooth and comfy. I have a 90 stumpjumper (that I’m convinced could be the worlds greatest bicycle), and the roadini is v similar, minus canti post, add practical geometry. It is definitely stout, which makes the lack of rack mounts annoying, but its not toooo stout. To me, it feels like a road tourer, not a zippy speed machine. I think a crust mallochio or lightning bolt might be lighter/flexier/zippier. 

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 10:03:16 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

This paragraph is from Will's recent email... If this sounds like what you're looking for then I say buy one. 

"Yes, the Roadini is heavier than a carbon frame, but, and even though it's a cliche phrase at this point, it rides light and I don't care if I'm two minutes slower than my alternate-universe self who rides a carbon bike. I still feel fast on it, and I'm not racing anybody anyway, even myself. My bike priorities are safety, comfort, reliability, and the ability to stretch the bike beyond it's stated purpose. Most of you aren't able to come test ride one before you buy, but those that do invariably say something like, "it's faster than I thought it would be!". It's always been more about the rider than the frame, but I know what they mean."

Doug

[Bones]

I started with an Appaloosa, which I built as a workhorse to ferry my kids around. I wanted something without all the racks and utility so I purchased a Hillborne. Great bike, but I found it too similar to my Appaloosa so I moved it along and bought a Roadini. It was exactly what I was looking for. No, it is not a delicate, lightweight bike. That is to my benefit, as I can do stupid things to it without worrying about it being damaged. It is a Rivendell, and it rides like all of my other Rivendells. It currently resides at my parents' house, and I make a point to ride it whenever I visit. I love that bike.

Bones

[Eric Marth]

Very nice build, Bones!  B) 

[JohnS]

Hello Peter,

Wow, an '81 Sequoia! Those are very rare since only about 700 were made by hand. In '82 is when production ramped up. Please post a picture if you can.

Thanks,

John

[Valerie Yates]

I am not in the market for a Roadini but I love reading all these stories and comparisons. Very fun topic. 

[Andrew Turner]

2 cents: don't get carried away with frame weight, especially when comparing steel frames. I'd focus more on geometry. I wanted my Roadini build to scratch the same itch but the long wheelbase didn't align with my idea of a zippy, skinny-tire road bike. 
Conversely, I had the opportunity to purchase a 15lb carbon road bike, and I thought, now THIS is the chance to see if weight really does make a difference, and it does...when you pick the thing up...When riding, I really don't notice a difference besides sliiiightly sketchier descending.

Stick with your gut and upcycle a cool 90s frame! And avoid weight weenie tendencies when it comes to steel bikes. 

[Nick Payne]

I've come to like modern aluminium frames - they're a far cry from the rigid Cannondales of 25 years ago. I've been riding bikes for about half a century, and have multiple lugged frames spanning that period (including a custom Riv and a Bleriot), but I reckon that the Mason Definition frameset that I recently built up as a fairly lightweight zippy machine is the best riding bike I've ever owned. It can fit 35mm tyres - Conti GP Urban are what I'm using, and has rack and mudguard mounts on the frame if you want to fit those.

Nick Payne

[Piaw Na]

High BB, short chainstays, steep seat-tube angles, and disc brakes? That's as far away from the Roadini as you can get. Add in wireless shifting and I'm sorry, that's just not comparable to any Rivendell I've seen!

[Nick Payne]

I obviously haven't drunk the Kool-Aid:-)

[Joe Bernard]

Modern bikes are fine - I recommended the OP consider one as a companion to his Sam - but being on a Rivendell group and calling us "people who've drunk the Kool-Aid" is... interesting 😐

[Nick Payne]

On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 2:43:06 pm UTC+10 Joe Bernard wrote:

Modern bikes are fine - I recommended the OP consider one as a companion to his Sam - but being on a Rivendell group and calling us "people who've drunk the Kool-Aid" is... interesting 😐

I have Rivendell bikes, and they're nice bikes to ride. I just don't think they're the be-all and end-all of bicycle design. What the OP seems to be looking for in a bike is closer to what you and I both recommended.

Nick Payne

[J S]

For some of us who have had back pain with more modern bikes Rivendells have always been a breath of fresh air. I started buying them in 1997 and have not looked back, they made riding possible for me again. 

I do prefer the Rivs with the shorter for Riv  chainstays. Nice bikes for those of us who have issues with more aggressive geometries. For me not koolaide but a practical   comfort. 

Glad your aluminum bike works for you.

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[Davey Two Shoes]

Can someone explain to me what would prompt a decision for a roadini over a Homer aside from price? I though the Homer was Rivs "zippy" offering. With the Roadeo being their fast offering. The road bike category at Riv is starting to get crowded between the Sam, Homer, Roadini and Roadeo. I know Riv calls the Sam a Hilli/Gravel bike, but coming from a modern gravel bike, and before that a Salsa Vaya, the Sam is definitely a road bike that happens to be tough and capable elsewhere. But a Road Bike when the day is done.

[Piaw Na]

The AHH has 50cm chainstays, which might make it hard to fit into my bike box for flying (I use a Trico-Ironcase). The AHH also takes 135mm rear wheels, while the wheels I had hanging in the garage were all 130mm wheels. Grant advised against cold setting an AHH. In exchange the Roadini has a 5mm higher BB, which I dislike (others claim you can't tell the difference but I can, from having ridden an 80mm drop touring bike for many years), but something I'm willing to trade. If my current custom touring bike fails, I'll go for a custom bike with the Roadini geometry but with an 80 or even 85mm BB drop now that I'm unlikely to ride tires narrower than 28mm.

That's pretty much it. The extra $400 the AHH cost might also make a difference if you're stretching your budget, but it wasn't a big consideration for me.

[Piaw Na]

Oh yeah, the AHH doesn't have downtube shifter bosses, while the Roadini does. Again, a minor consideration --- I'm happy with my downtube shifter on my Roadini, but it wouldn't have killed me to go to bar-end shifters.

[Eric Marth]

Hi Davey — Why a Roadini over a Homer? As I understand it the Roadini is not designed to carry loads. Until recently the max tire size was considerably less than their other frames. While the Homer is apparently made with lighter tubes than the Sam it's still beefier than the Roadini. The Roadini has fewer rack mounts and eyelets (perhaps more have been added over the years?) Over time, like other Rivs, the chainstays have grown in length. They called the Homer and Sam their "country bikes," their term for gravel bikes. The Roadini has always been classified as a road bike. Now that it'll fit a 42mm tire I see even more overlap with the Sam and Homer. 

Piaw makes some good points here, too. I'll add that while some of the pictures on the Homer product page don't show downtube shifter bosses the most recent versions of that bike do indeed have them. 

Here's an excerpt from the 2018 frame catalog showing how Rivendell group their frames and split hairs. Set apart by tire clearances and hauling capacity. 

To get further into their categories the "Hillibike" was their term for mountain and trail bikes determined largely by tire clearance: Susie, Gus, Clem with the lower top tubes. An Appaloosa or Atlantis could be set up as a Hillibike as well given the clearances for 2.3" tires. Excerpt below from the unpublished Hillibike catalog. 

[Piaw Na]

Let me break down the road bike selection from Rivendell:

Sam: I refuse to consider this a road bike since it doesn't take sidepull calipers. :-) I've always hated both cantilever and v-brakes, having experienced many reliability issues with them (they're probably better now, but I still get PTSD from having them fall apart on me once and hours spent dealing with a heron that squealed like the proverbial stuck pig when descending major passes in the alps). I consider even disc brakes to be a better compromise if you need wider tires than a Tektro 559. And those squeal too just not as badly.

Roadeo: classic road bike using medium reach brakes ---- I've got a friend who got a Lynskey built up to match the geometry (Rivendell only had one demo Roadeo when he wanted to buy and the wait was such that a custom Lynskey would deliver faster) and he loves it. If you don't need more than 35mm tires it's a great bike.

Roadini: gravelish bike with Tektro brakes that can take 42mm tires. The higher BB means you can't treat it like a MTB and never have a pedal strike no matter what trails you ride on. It's versatile and heavier but a reasonable compromise.

AHH: fully lugged road bike with a low BB built for tires wider than 30mm. The ultra long chainstays means it's suitable for even rougher trails than the Roadini but might also mean it's harder to fly with. The 135mm rear wheel is strong enough to handle anything a MTB can. With good bike handling skills and 45mm tires this would be my choice for bikepacking (though I'm light enough the Roadini will serve well there).

[Chasen Smith]

Going off of what Piaw said of the AHH, the fact that the roadini will fit in my post transfer case was a huge factor in my decision to get one! 

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[Wesley]

In my opinion, the most significant difference between a Roadini and a homer is that the Roadini is designed for drop bars (so has a shorter top tube) and the Homer is designed for upright swept-back bars.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:32:03 AM UTC-7 Davey Two Shoes wrote:

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

Doesn't the post-transfer case require fork removal? Is that hard to do on the threaded headset? I've always avoided cases that require fork removal.

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[Chasen Smith]

Piaw- it does, I was intimidated but I saw a plp vid where he uses the case w a threaded fork, so I just got one of those mini adjustable wrenches that Riv sells and it’s p smooth sailing as long as you keep up with everything. I saw Russ posting recently about some Topeak travel-specific, light-looking, flat headset wrenches that would be amazing for this application, but they most be a prototype, can’t find them anywhere.

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[Piaw Na]

Haha. I haven't touched my Chris King threadless headset on my touring bike for years. Getting all the play out took quite a bit of futzing so now I avoid messing with it.   For a threaded headset I remember you need 2 wrenches. Just one more thing I don't want to deal with while I'm jet-lagged and putting together the bike at a hotel under time pressure.

[Wesley]

The two wrenches are to hold one nut still while turning the other, like when serving loose bearing hubs. Most (all?) threaded headsets use a keyed washer between the nuts to prevent one from turning the other, so there's no need for two wrenches. If you want to travel with a bike with threaded headset, it is worth using a sealed-bearing headset. For one, you can't lose some of the balls, and for another the preload adjustment is much less sensitive.

[Piaw Na]

2 cents: don't get carried away with frame weight, especially when comparing steel frames. I'd focus more on geometry. I wanted my Roadini build to scratch the same itch but the long wheelbase didn't align with my idea of a zippy, skinny-tire road bike. 

Geometry is by far the most important thing on a road bike. And I include the diameter of the tubes as well as the wall thickness. Having said that, I don't think I'd ever consider weight unimportant. If you're a heavy rider, maybe it matters less, but the lighter you are the more weight matters. At 140 pounds or so (going down to 130 pounds when touring), the difference between a 30 pound MTB and a 24 pound Roadini is very noticeable. Lighter bikes also mean I have an easier time placing the wheels precisely on a single track trail. They're also way more fun to ride. Finally, if you ever have to fly with the bike, United airlines has a 50 pound limit for those of us who're not premiere or paying for business class international flights. A lighter bike lets you fly with the bike in a sturdy trico ironcase (weight 30 pounds!) without having to pay the $200 oversize/overweight penalty. I do everything I can to shave the weight of a bike down without sacrificing reliability. I simply don't have any excess power to waste!

 

[Andrew Turner]

I dig Jan’s take on bike weight: your bike shouldn’t weigh more than it has to. As long as you have a good understanding of the bikes purpose and your riding style, your gut will know better than a bathroom scale. 

On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 12:50 PM Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:

2 cents: don't get carried away with frame weight, especially when comparing steel frames. I'd focus more on geometry. I wanted my Roadini build to scratch the same itch but the long wheelbase didn't align with my idea of a zippy, skinny-tire road bike. 

Geometry is by far the most important thing on a road bike. And I include the diameter of the tubes as well as the wall thickness. Having said that, I don't think I'd ever consider weight unimportant. If you're a heavy rider, maybe it matters less, but the lighter you are the more weight matters. At 140 pounds or so (going down to 130 pounds when touring), the difference between a 30 pound MTB and a 24 pound Roadini is very noticeable. Lighter bikes also mean I have an easier time placing the wheels precisely on a single track trail. They're also way more fun to ride. Finally, if you ever have to fly with the bike, United airlines has a 50 pound limit for those of us who're not premiere or paying for business class international flights. A lighter bike lets you fly with the bike in a sturdy trico ironcase (weight 30 pounds!) without having to pay the $200 oversize/overweight penalty. I do everything I can to shave the weight of a bike down without sacrificing reliability. I simply don't have any excess power to waste!

 

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[John Rigdon]

Bones, that's a beautiful Roadini build. Could I ask your saddle height? I'm 78.5ish with an 89.5 PBH and having a difficult time deciding between frames myself.

[Bones]

Thanks! The saddle height in that picture is probably between 79-80.

Bones

[jamin orrall]

Keep an eye out for an 80's specialized sequoia, they are wonderful bikes.  Fits 32's or 650b's with tektro r559s, rides like a fast Rivendell but a little flexier. One of my favorite bikes.

[JohnS]

Very nice ride Jamin, thanks for sharing.

JohnS

[Davey Two Shoes]

I've been giving the Soma Pescadero and New VO Rando a serious look.

[Garth]

I pre-ordered the VO Rando today. Through the 6th the frames are discounted 20% for pre-orders.  I hadn't even been aware of them. Road bike heaven, Yippee !

I finally got the drop bars on my Franklin and I had forgotten how much I love riding them, so I'm going the exact opposite of what Riv is doing, I'm all in on going back to pure road bikes.

https://velo-orange.com/products/rando-frameset

[J S]

Garth, looks really nice. Are they made in Taiwan? Enjoy 

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[Garth]

I have no idea where the frames are being made or any of the other particulars beyond what was printed by VO. Taiwan is likely of course as I think that's where they have the majority of the business relationships. I'm eager to try their Grand Cru calipers too. I've never used any caliper besides a Suntour somethingoranother in the 70's and Campy Record of the 80's. 

The main difference with the VO and the Riv models is one of how the rider is positioned over the BB. The VO is much more body forward, with a steeper seat tube angle(73.5 vs. 72), and notably more reach and longer font end. Also more fork rake, less trail, around 51 think, and a higher BB, all of which suits me. 

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 5:42:04 PM UTC-4 jrst wrote:

Garth, looks really nice. Are they made in Taiwan? Enjoy 

[Ryan]

Garth, FWIW I really like those VO Grand Cru calipers. I replaced a set of Record 80's calipers/brake levers with Grand Crus and the TRP levers someone posted about recently and it's a combo I've been really happy with.If it matters, a number of years ago in Bicycle Quarterly Jan Heine did an extensive and favorable review of this brakeset ...not sure if it's available online or not. But to my mind they really work well...although I admit I don't live in the mountains. They're good-looking brakes as well.$175 per set does not seem unreasonable

[Johnny Alien]

The Roadini frames were in stock long enough to tempt me into getting one. Dark gold one coming my way.

[danielle da cruz]

Congrats, Johnny! Excited to see what you do with it.