Curious Brooks damage

[Mark Reimer]

I've been riding a Brooks B17 Special since I got my Atlantis, which was about 1.5 years ago. I applied proofide when I bought it. Over time I've developed this weird 'snake bite' pattern right above the metal nose piece. I just emailed Brooks and they indicated it was 'in desperate and immediate need of tensioning', which I find odd. The saddle still has the shape it had when new. It's not sagging or a hammock like some very old and worn saddles. I was under the impression tensioning these saddles unnecessarily could lead to premature failure. 1.5 years seems pretty early. Anyone else have this problem? I'm going to follow their advice, but thought it was weird.

[Ron Mc]

it does kind of look like the leather is bending around the nose bridge - it's the exact shape of it

http://www.pedallingabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_3909.jpg

[David Banzer]

No experience with that type of wear, but the worn area looks like it lines up with the edge of the nose-piece. Does the leather change shape in this area as well? Maybe a side pic would help. I know when I ride in the winter, my saddle feels not as comfortable as in warmer temps. 'Brittle' isn't an accurate term, but it's the best I can think of. So, maybe weather related?
IMO, tensioning a saddle doesn't necessarily wear it out faster if it's done only when needed and doesn't tighten the leather back to its original hardness.
Definitely add some leather treatment on the top spots. Check the underside for wear. Maybe it's a good time to give the underside a full treatment as well.
David
Chicago

[Mark Reimer]

Yeah, very true. I guess I'm just a bit confused because when you look at it from the side, it doesn't really have much sag at all. Particularly compared to my other brooks and others I've seen. I know the special is a more supple leather, perhaps it's more delicate? 

[David Banzer]

The side pic shows it better. Looks worse than the first photo. While it's not sagging, there is a shift in the direction of the leather, and that area is starting to wear through. The leather at the nose is angling up, while after the nose piece, it becomes horizontal. The leather looks worn and dried out in that area. Is there wear on the underside?
What I would do is de-tension the saddle completely, move the nose piece around where it clamps to the rails. It can get stuck in a position, which would start deforming the leather. Give the leather a solid treatment on the underside, then on the raw exposed leather on the top. Then re-tension, while trying to keep the nose piece as horizontal as possible.
David
Chicago

[Ron Mc]

it really looks like it's about to tear through there - any chance it's been soaked through and ridden wet?  

I bought my first select last year, and I don't think I'll ever buy anything different.  It's the only Brooks that I've been totally happy with the rate that it's stretching - i.e, negligible.  

[Mark Reimer]

Yikes!

Nope, never been soaked or anything like that. I'll take your recommendation of inspecting the nose piece. This is how my saddle has looked since I got it - the nose shape I mean. It was slowly getting lighter at that spot, but only very recently did the grain change. That's what got me thinking hey this isn't just a wear pattern, this is actually damaged. 

[Mark Reimer]

One more photo...

[Scott Henry]

Seeing that last photo....

Ever turn the bike upside down, resting on the bars and saddle?  

Rub points for storage or vehicle transport?

Or wear something with a crotch zipper?  

That looks like mechanical wear to me...

Scott

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[Mark Reimer]

Nope, not that I know of.

Check out these photos. They are from when I first bought the saddle, one year after (bright colour striped photo), and then one year more (present day).

You can see it's been a slow progressive thing. First starting out as some lighter spots, then turned tan (I thought it was just the dye wearing a bit quicker there), then starting to split. To my eye, the profile of the saddle never changed. Never sagged. Never got water logged and wasn't physically scraped or damaged. 

[Hugh Smitham]

Hey Mark,

By the looks of the pictures you've shared I'd say it looks defective to my eye. I have the same saddle and have been riding it since 2013 and the leather at the nose has slipped to one side. I don't notice it or feel any adverse effect but it definitely looks funny. I'd go back to the retail outlet that sold it to you and get it warrantied. It shouldn't do that.

Cheers,

~Hugh

[Reid]

It looks to me as though the nose piece is at the wrong angle, probably from new. As have a lot of people on this list, I have seen some pretty well worn and abused Brooks saddles, but never any like that. I agree with the "warranty" comment above.

Reid

[Jim Bronson]

balls of steel?

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Mark Reimer <markn...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been riding a Brooks B17 Special since I got my Atlantis, which was about 1.5 years ago. I applied proofide when I bought it. Over time I've developed this weird 'snake bite' pattern right above the metal nose piece. I just emailed Brooks and they indicated it was 'in desperate and immediate need of tensioning', which I find odd. The saddle still has the shape it had when new. It's not sagging or a hammock like some very old and worn saddles. I was under the impression tensioning these saddles unnecessarily could lead to premature failure. 1.5 years seems pretty early. Anyone else have this problem? I'm going to follow their advice, but thought it was weird.

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[Hugh Smitham]

I think that thought passed though others minds but you Jim voiced it :)

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[ascpgh]

Something else of steel if sitting with those wearing leather there.

I've had the same saddle on my Rambouillet since 2001 and nothing like that, or even foreshadowing of such.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Ron Mc]

Please don't shoot the messenger here, but I'm going to throw out one more idea.  Any chance you are sitting too far forward on the saddle?  If you sit back, does the saddle feel too wide?  If this is the case, you may want to try Rivet Indy All Road.  Regards.  

[Mark Reimer]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Contrary to speculation, I do not have steel balls. But I do agree that there is a defect here. I've taken it to the shop I purchased it from (another reason to buy local when you can!) and they agree, and are going to attempt to have it replaced under warranty. It is three months shy of two years old, so it falls under the regular Brooks warranty. 

The question of sitting too far forward, it's a good question, though I'm positive it's not the case. Even as far as Brooks riders go, my saddle angle is often quite 'upward', sliding me toward the widest part at the rear. I did that because when it was flatter I had a tendency to slide forward, which was rather uncomfortable on my non-steel balls. I'll keep you posted on the warranty response...

[Deacon Patrick]

"I do not have steel balls. But I do agree that there is a defect here."

Perhaps you should be more specific than "here"? Sardonic grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Mark Reimer]

Hah!! Oh dear. This is spiralling downward here.

[Deacon Patrick]

[deep, gravely Animal the Muppet voice] Sorrrrrrrry That's a common side-effect of communications in which I participate. My wife and daughters accurately accuse at least half of me of still being five. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/10/2016 11:16 AM, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> "I do not have steel balls. But I do agree that there is a defect here."
>
> Perhaps you should be more specific than "here"? Sardonic grin.
>

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/trumpshowusyourpenis

[Mark Reimer]

Very good news!

My LBS contacted their Brooks supplier on my behalf. Initially I went to the Brooks website and contacted their warranty department. I was told my saddle needed new leather and to send it in for a $110USD replacement service. I didn't feel that was appropriate, asked the shop if they could help. They received an immediate warranty replacement, and lucky for me, they had a B17 special on the shelf already, and I walked out with a new saddle AND my old saddle this afternoon. 

It can be difficult to justify purchasing local with bike components when there are so many sites now that offer the stuff I want at a huge discount. But these experiences remind me that service and a good relationship with your shop are often worth paying a bit more for. 

[Hugh Smitham]

Glad this worked out Mark.

These saddles aren't inexpensive and going through the warranty process with online retailers is a pain. I try to support my LBS' s as best I can. If I buy online I really need to scrutinize whether this is the right part?

Now all you need to do is start the breaking in process all over again.

FWIW I have been told that one should only use proofhide once a season.

Tail Winds,

~Hugh

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[Mark Reimer]

Regarding Proofide, here is what the Brooks contact told me via their warranty claims process:

I would also like to make you aware at this point about the dangers of excessive use Brooks Proofide (or any other brand) dressing.  In my experience, Proofide should only be applied to the leather sparingly and just twice per year.  By adopting this regime, you are correctly using the Proofide as an “anti-ageing” moisturizer.  It is important to realize that Proofide does soften the leather and it frequent use can result in (irreversible) over softening of the leather.  In turn, this will result premature stretching and the sinking effect that I described earlier  

Personally I only apply it at most once a year, unless it's seen a lot of damp weather

[Howard Hatten]

Mark,
Glad to hear Brooks stood tall on your saddle. After reading your post I gave my b17 special an inspection and I notice that nose piece is starting to leave a witness mark on mine too. I tensioned the leather and it seems to help. I think tomorrow I'm going to punch some holes & lace the skirt up.

Howard
Livonia Mi.

[Hugh Smitham]

Yup. I knew it was an infrequent thing.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

[Lungimsam]

Have you tried a Cambium?
That would eliminate leather issues.
I am thinking of trying their sprung Cambium if it comes out this year.

[Lungimsam]

Thats cool you could keep the old saddle.
You could hang it on the wall as a decoration. A badge of honor.

[Metin Uz]

Nice of Brooks to stand behind their product.

On a somewhat related note, I have noticed that the leather is significantly softer on the recent Brooks saddles. I have a 15 year old B17 that has seen at least 40,000 miles (on my commute bike). The surface was getting rough, so I replaced it with a B17 Select a year ago. The new saddle already has more established dimples (at the sit bones). I doubt I will get more than 5 years out of it.

--Metin

[René Sterental]

+1 for the Cambium!

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[Jack Doran]

Mark,

I had to keep coming back to this thread because of the curious damage to your saddle, but I'm so glad it all got worked out. Three cheers for your LBS!

[Mark Reimer]

Indeed I have tried the cambium. It's been on my atlantis since I brought the b17s into the shop. I normally have it on my single speed cx bike. I like it a lot, but don't find it anywhere near the comfort of the leather saddle. For me the b17s is like a 10/10. Cambium a 8/10 or maybe a 7.5. Everything else I've tried a 5 or 6/10. 

On Mar 11, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Jack Doran <jackd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mark,

I had to keep coming back to this thread because of the curious damage to your saddle, but I'm so glad it all got worked out. Three cheers for your LBS!

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[Mark Reimer]

I put in 85km on the new Brooks B17 Special yesterday. I had an interesting observation, which is that this new saddle is much stiffer and much less comfortable out of the box than my first Special was. I remember being shocked how my first one felt as if I had been riding it for years on the first ride. It was so supple and fit me so well, I didn't even have a break-in period. This one is much more like every other Brooks I've had (B17 Narrow and Swift) - hard! 

I wonder if my first Special was cut from a particularly thin or supple piece of leather, contributing to its early demise? I also compared the metal nose pieces and the failed saddle does indeed have a misaligned nose piece. Whether that is from the leather stretching or was misadjusted right from the get-go I don't know. I don't have detailed photos from when I first purchased it to compare. 

Either way, I feel pretty confident this stiffer saddle will hold up better over time. It wasn't toooooo bad on the 85km ride, but definitely will take some persuasion to break in. 

[Belopsky]

I am liking my C15 a lot. I have not done a lot of miles yet, but it seems like I needed a narrower seat a long time ago. I suppose a B17 narrow may be in my future