OT: your opinion of the Bridgestone RB-T?

[Scot Brooks]

Back story; my girlfriend is feeling motivated to get into something slightly different from the 80s MTB she's been riding for the past couple of years, something with a little more spring in its step. A Rivendell just isn't remotely in the budget, so I've been looking around for Bridgestones, Miyatas, etc. that will fit a short person. There's a nice looking RB-T for sale on CL at $350, but it's one Bridgestone I have no experience with. By the look of it, I'm guessing it could clear Jack Browns and fenders but I don't really know. Any thoughts, experience, or even speculation will be greatly appreciated as always. 

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I think the RB-T would not be a great choice for a short person. Better to stick with the smaller-wheel bikes.

Jim

[Scot Brooks]

Good point, Jim. I forgot about that :) The little LHT would be nice, but I think I'll have quite a job locating one. 

[Joe Bernard]

How tall is your girlfriend; what size is the bike?

[Scot Brooks]

Hi Joe,

My girlfriend is 5' 4", the bike is a 50cm, but it's yet to be determined whether the bike will fit. No idea. It's just a bike that came on my radar. I just figured at least a few people around here would have some experience with the RB-T and could give me their impression of the bike. 

[William]

The 1994 RBT is a solid bike with decent resale value.  I've never been terribly fond of the components on any of the older RBTs, but the 1994 was nice.  There was toe clip overlap in basically every size, especially the small ones, if you run a fender.  Some people have a bigger problem than others over that.  

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Scot,

 

I'm 5'-7" and fit a 53 RB-T. I think she should check it out, those are really nice bikes.

On Monday, April 8, 2013 1:03:14 PM UTC-7, Scot Brooks wrote:

[Frank Brose]

 If it'll fit buy it. Great bikes. I have one and it's one of the few bikes I own I wouldn't consider selling. They will fit Jack Browns with fenders (that's what I have on mine) which makes for a real nice ride. Not to mention you can throw a rack (I have front and rear) on it and carry stuff. Ihave bikes that cost a helluva lot more that I don't like as much as my RB-T. If I come across another in my size at a decent price I'll buy it as well.

Cheers,

Frank

 
On Monday, April 8, 2013 12:02:28 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:

[cyclotourist]

My RB-T was one of my favorite bikes. I sold it only to finance a Rivendell. Very fun bike to ride as it has skinny tubes and fits fat tires. Best combo around! If it fits here it sounds like a great price. Watch the reach, as though standover may be okay, she may be pretty stretched out and that isn't comfortable over time.

Cheers,
David

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[Joe Bernard]

The toptube for a 50cm RB-T is 52.5.

 

http://sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1994/pages/71.htm

[Joe Bernard]

Is this the one?

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/3727866366.html

[cyclotourist]

As long as the paint isn't dinged up from locking up all the time (bane of commuters) then it seems like a real good purchase. If it was used in winter, then that's a whole other story. Seattle does get some precipitation I've heard.

The 52.5cm TT isn't bad at all for that size. Good to know!

Cheers,
David

[rperks]

the only real difference between the two smallest RBT sizes is the location of the actual top tube.  It is pretty subtle, but if you measure up 52/53 on the seat tube on a 50 and then horizontal to the stem they are pretty much the same bike.  IMO they are one of the better riding bikes where a 700c was crammed into a little bike.  As mentioned the toe clip overlap is horrible, but f you can get passed that, they are great riders.  I have one that I work on for a friend that is in the cue for a swap to albatross bars, the longish top tube makes them a decent candidate.

Rob

[Scot Brooks]

Pretty fancy sleuth work, Joe!

[Joe Bernard]

I'm a master of The Google (actually startpage.com. Google tracks your IP, but I digress). RB-Ts are good bikes, but that one is "well ridden". I wouldn't pay more than $250 for it.

On Monday, April 8, 2013 10:11:47 PM UTC-7, Scot Brooks wrote:

Pretty fancy sleuth work, Joe!

[Tom Goodmann]

Prices for RBTs seem to be on the rise (no surprise; so's everything, right?)  Before I lucked into a Heron--it just arrived yesterday!--I was on the hunt for an RB-T, and anything I turned up in my size (59 cm) was offered to me for no less than $500--and, as Joe says, in "well ridden" condition. --Tom

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

No comment particular to the RB-T, but of old, used bikes in general. IME, you can spend a load of $$$ on a used bike chasing an unattainable dream. At a minimum: unless the bike is a garage-queen formerly owned by an OCD type, or you happen to be a decent wrench yourself and have a garage full of good parts, you're probably going to have to spend a small fortune at the LBS replacing things that are worn out. Chain, cassette, crank/chainring(s), brake pads, bar-tape, cables, tires, and who knows what else, along with a tune-up/overhaul...could easily run to $300 or even $500 (even with mediocre replacement parts) at a LBS. As a "best-case" scenario, I'm not including stuff like cracked/bent rims or screwed up hubs or a stuck seatpost or a handlebar/stem that Nitto says you should replace every 5 years (or when your GF needs a different bar/stem for comfort)...things that can run into big money. So, let's say that, with this basic maintenance, the bike actually costs you $800 total. Even for that $800, most of the "good" parts that were not replaced (including the frame) are still 20 years old, and have an unknown history. And besides that, unless your GF really has her heart set on a RB-T, you've just spent $800 on a bike that you settled for because it was one of very few suitable options available on the local used market. If she doesn't like it after going through all that trouble, you'll be lucky to recoup even a fraction of the extra $$$ you put into fixing it up.

For that $800 or a bit more, you could buy a NEW bike with all new parts and a warranty and a LBS that wants you and your GF to be happy customers. Most importantly, the new bike world allows a person to shop around a bit to find a bike he/she really likes, rather than settling for whatever happens to make it to Craigslist.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

My previous comment was in no way intended to say that used/older bikes are not worth buying and/or fixing. I simply wanted to offer my perspective about what I consider to be reasonable expectations in this situation. Too often, people buy used older bikes while wearing a set of blinders because they want to believe that this cool vintage bike will be a fun and economical project. Sometimes it's not fun or economical.

[Peter Morgano]

As a owner of many a vintage bike I have to agree with Jim. I wouldn't buy one not expecting to spend extra on a host of things. But for alot of C&V people this is a built in cost, all depends on where you are coming at the project.

On Apr 9, 2013 8:06 AM, "Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery" <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

My previous comment was in no way intended to say that used/older bikes are not worth buying and/or fixing. I simply wanted to offer my perspective about what I consider to be reasonable expectations in this situation. Too often, people buy used older bikes while wearing a set of blinders because they want to believe that this cool vintage bike will be a fun and economical project. Sometimes it's not fun or economical.

[Bruce Herbitter]

Same holds true for old cars or boats.  If you know what you are doing and want to do the project, great. If you have no clue but see a low price on ebay or CL, you are just rolling dice. I bought a used frame set (RBW Road) here (or maybe it was on the 650B list?) from a reputable seller and knew what my budget would be. I also could (and did) build it up from scratch myself. It worked out  satisfactorily, but for the same money I could also have purchased new, decent quality mass production bike. The bike I built up is way more bike for the same money, imo. 

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

My previous comment was in no way intended to say that used/older bikes are not worth buying and/or fixing. I simply wanted to offer my perspective about what I consider to be reasonable expectations in this situation. Too often, people buy used older bikes while wearing a set of blinders because they want to believe that this cool vintage bike will be a fun and economical project. Sometimes it's not fun or economical.

[Frank Brose]

What Jim says is well worth considering. I don't know how much I have in mine but I know it would be way north of $800 if I would have bought everything new (might be anyhow).  I had it repainted and had used parts I on hand that I used and it still cost me a fair amount of money . The used parts cost me something at some point in time and new cables,chain, tire,tubes,ect. all add up. I also have enough parts that I knew if I didn't like the setup I could always change it's hairdo That being said it's still one of my favorite bikes but then again it fits me and I like the ride. If I were fiscally responsible when it comes to bicycles. I probably would have never pursued it. But I'm not.

[Joe Bernard]

Yes to all of the above. As a bit of a Bridgestone collector, I can say with some authority there are two ways to buy an expensive one: Buy and expensive one, or buy a cheap one...

[Scot Brooks]

It's amazing how on-the-money you are, Jim. It's almost like you were able to see exactly how much I spent resurrecting my brother's old Bridgestone. While I do want some perfect example of...something to come along, I also appreciate your point. The practical bike market is pretty great these days, and something like a Cross Check or a LHT might be the practical choice of practical bikes. 

[Eric Platt]

Agreeing with the other folks here.  I've come close a few times over the past few years to buying an older bike.  Once I've sat down and figured out how much would be spent, have decided it wasn't worth the effort. 

 

The other thing (and this is not a rub on the RB-T) but a lot of the older bikes don't take the tire widths I need.  As Jim Thill is well aware, came close to buying an older Miyata touring bike.  Once I looked and figured out the bike might be able to fit 28s with fenders that idea went out the window.

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Scot Brooks <scothi...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's amazing how on-the-money you are, Jim. It's almost like you were able to see exactly how much I spent resurrecting my brother's old Bridgestone. While I do want some perfect example of...something to come along, I also appreciate your point. The practical bike market is pretty great these days, and something like a Cross Check or a LHT might be the practical choice of practical bikes. 

--

[William]

I never go out looking for a used bike, but when the perfect used bike opportunity finds me, I am often ready to take advantage

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

So your perception is that used bike opportunities “go looking for you”?

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[PATRICK MOORE]

Interesting discussion. I've had great fun, great chagrin, and great expense trying to achieve silk purse perfection out of sows' ear beaters. OTOH, I've sold some such beaters and, afterward, regretted doing so. But on the whole, I've learned that, unless the cheap find is exceptional -- either exceptionally good or exceptionally cheap, it's not a good way to spend your money. But this sort of buy/rehab/try/sell-at-loss has at least given me experience with many bikes.

Now my brother, OTOH, goes through at least a dozen bikes a year -- at one point he had so many that he would lose bikes, frames groups, inside his very large garage that was packed floor to rafters, front to back, and side to side, leaving only a little gap near the door for his workspace. And this number includes only those he buys for his own interest, not those other dozens he buys merely to flip (tho' he ends up flipping many of the former category, too). Since he's much less picky about what he likes, and knows his stuff, he does manage to find excellent bikes and still come out way ahead financially - a sort of self-supporting acquisition addiction.

[William]

Absolutely they go looking for me.  All I do is keep my eyes and ears open.  

On Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:07:31 AM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:

So your perception is that used bike opportunities “go looking for you”?

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of William
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 1:04 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: OT: your opinion of the Bridgestone RB-T?

 

I never go out looking for a used bike, but when the perfect used bike opportunity finds me, I am often ready to take advantage

On Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:34:16 AM UTC-7, EricP wrote:

Agreeing with the other folks here.  I've come close a few times over the past few years to buying an older bike.  Once I've sat down and figured out how much would be spent, have decided it wasn't worth the effort. 

 

The other thing (and this is not a rub on the RB-T) but a lot of the older bikes don't take the tire widths I need.  As Jim Thill is well aware, came close to buying an older Miyata touring bike.  Once I looked and figured out the bike might be able to fit 28s with fenders that idea went out the window.

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

 

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Scot Brooks <scothi...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's amazing how on-the-money you are, Jim. It's almost like you were able to see exactly how much I spent resurrecting my brother's old Bridgestone. While I do want some perfect example of...something to come along, I also appreciate your point. The practical bike market is pretty great these days, and something like a Cross Check or a LHT might be the practical choice of practical bikes. 

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[Scot Brooks]

And, in perfect harmony with William's statement, up pops a lovely Waterford on Seattle CL. Thank goodness it's not my size :)

[Tom Goodmann]

yeah, thank goodness about the size! that Waterford looks like a good deal.

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Scot Brooks <scothi...@gmail.com> wrote:

And, in perfect harmony with William's statement, up pops a lovely Waterford on Seattle CL. Thank goodness it's not my size :)

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[Evan]

"IME, you can spend a load of $$$ on a used bike chasing an unattainable dream." < Great point, Jim! About six years ago when I started riding bikes, I caught the C&V bug and bought a Craigslist Miyata. And then a Univega. And then another Univega. And then an Austro-Daimler. Each bike had its good points but wasn't quite right, so I sold each at a modest profit. If you factor in the time I spent cleaning and wrenching, the profits were losses. But I had fun and I learned. Finally, I learned enough to buy a Sam!

[Matt Beebe]

If you like lugged steel bikes with traditional geometries, you just can't find a new bike in the <$500 price range that compares to the golden age 70's and 80's (and early 90's bridgestone) bikes out there.    There were some seriously high quality steel frames made back then.    I have a few vintage bikes in my stable, and it sometimes amazes me that they were at one time, in my lifetime, standard fare at the bike shop.   

I agree that you don't want to spend a lot on a rig in need of major TLC, but there are tons of 20+ year old bikes that have pretty much never been ridden.   One of my best bikes is one that was made in 1983 that I picked up several years ago, and which has served me well for those years and tens of thousands of miles of transport.   Now, it only fits 28's with fenders-    but has similar geometry to a Rivendell, rack and fender mounts, high quality steel, unbelievably nice shaped and filed lugs, and terrific ride characteristics and comfort.   I love riding that bike, and in about a half hour will begin putting another 30 miles on it.

BUT I also wholeheartedly agree with EricP.     If you want a 700c bike with better tire/fender clearances (larger than 28s)-  and this is a fundamentally important feature to those who are accustomed to larger tires-   vintage is definitely not where to look (unless it's an early Rivendell Allrounder or something unusual).     

Matt

[dougP]

Scot:

Bear in mind this bike is for her.  Unless she has a special spot in her heart for a Bridgestone, it may be "just an old bike" to her.  A brand new squeaky clean with new tire smell bike is pretty attractive to anyone, especially the recreational rider who is not a bike nerd.  Jim's point about the potential cost of resurrecting something is a strong argument in itself, and you could also face the issue of dealing with the obvious only to find more problems as she rides the bike.  Then it's back to shop, more wrenching or spending, etc.  IMHO she'll be happier with a new bike.

dougP

[Christopher Murray]

Another idea would be to search New Old Stock on eBay. I bought a 1996 Trek 930 brand new in the box for $150. Put on a B-17 and rack that I already owned and bought a pair of fenders, tires, and albatross bars from Riv. Couldn't be happier with the bike and it cost less than $300 total. A great all rounder. A little harder to find but there are road, touring, and mountain bikes out there that are from the 1990's, steel, and brand new.

Cheers!
cm

[Jimmy Hutch]

Finding and buying and fixing old bikes is a hobby, it as a very different one than riding bikes. Riding a bike can be transportation, exercise, a hobby or any combination but it is very different than finding, buying and fixing bikes.

If your girlfriend wants something cool to ride, I'd focus on finding a bike will best suite that need. There are tons of high quality bikes being manufactured today that are amazing and affordable from big brands like Trek and Specialized to Breezer and Jamis to Linus and Public. They often come with racks, fatish tires, mudguards and sometimes even lights. Many are made of steel and they ride great and are very reliable.

A reliable bike will get ridden way more than an old artfully crafted lugged beauty that needs constant TLC.

Good luck.

-Jimmy

[Matt Beebe]

> On Friday, April 12, 2013 11:53:28 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Hutch wrote:
>> A reliable bike will get ridden way more than an old artfully crafted lugged beauty that needs constant TLC.

I don't get why people think older bikes need constant TLC.   If anything, a good bike from the 70's, 80's or 90's is going to be more reliable for the price, than a new bike at that same price.     And if a person rides a bike, purchased brand-new or not- actually rides it-  he or she will eventually need to replace things on it.    Tires, chain/cogs, brakes, etc.     They haven't invented wear-proof parts yet (though steel chainrings will get you farther than buttery soft Aluminum :)   

I'm not trying to be a wise ass here-    the beauty of vintage bikes is that they tend to be simpler in design, so unless you buy something that only takes French threading or something else oddball, anybody experienced with pre-techno lego blocks can probably figure them out.    Rivendell has managed to similarly keep unnecessary complication out of their bikes, and that's one of the many draws to them.    But really, that's the beauty of bicycles in general-    most of them are simple and cheap to fix, compared to say, a car.

I understand the desire not to buy something that immediately needs TLC.     But on the other hand, there are so many "pre-owned" bikes out there that have barely been ridden, and furthermore there are bikes shops that sell older bikes that they have refurbished/made sure everything is in order.  Bikes Not Bombs or Cambridge Antique Market around here, for example.

Matt

[PATRICK MOORE]

After working at Stevie's, with its corral of used bikes old and new, I am amazed at the number of old Schwinns from the '70s that are still around, still rideable (at least with just minimal cleaning, lubing, adjustment) -- many after having sat outside at Stevie's for months (dust, not much rain).

I cleaned up an old 5 speed Schwinn Collegiate last week, hub dated 1971, with only one or two cables that were not original. I spent a couple of hours on it, much of that wiping it down and installing slimed, thorn-proof tubes and new cables and housing, but otherwise it was ready to ride -- even the gears (mighty, chromed, forged stem shifter pulling mint Alvit!) worked perfectly and the wheels didn't need truing. And there is that mint N*sh*k*!

Now I agree that a novice mechanic choosing a used bike from a private party is inviting trouble, but old bikes as such, particularly if sold by a shop -- common here in ABQ -- seem to me to be an excellent bargain.

Patrick Moore, who is very much enjoying his used Ram with its '80s drivetrain and '90s brakes that are giving him not a whit of trouble.

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

It may be blasphemous to say, but bikes have improved over the decades. Just something simple: almost all new non-race bikes have rack mounts and bottle bosses. Try to find that feature on most 1970s bikes. And fattish tire clearance is easier to find on current bikes than on bikes from earlier generations. Also, I have to believe that most cyclists prefer indexed shifting (RBW people excepted). And don't get me started on brakes! And smart gearing! Every time I've tried to resurrect an old bike, even one in good shape, I've had to modernize some of the components to suit my preferences. That could run into many hundreds of dollars.

[PATRICK MOORE]

This is true in many respects. Low end (sub $500) mountain bikes have indexed shifting that, once adjusted, works well and for a long time; brakes that stop better than any long-reach single pivot on a Schwinn, and sturdy but light aluminum frames. I expect that they won't be in as good condition as a Collegiate after 40 years, but they certainly are better in many respects.

But a refurbished Collegiate from a bike shop is still a very viable and in some respects -- IMO -- a sturdier option -- not to mention a used mountain bike from a bike shop.

On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

It may be blasphemous to say, but bikes have improved over the decades. Just something simple: almost all new non-race bikes have rack mounts and bottle bosses. Try to find that feature on most 1970s bikes. And fattish tire clearance is easier to find on current bikes than on bikes from earlier generations. Also, I have to believe that most cyclists prefer indexed shifting (RBW people excepted). And don't get me started on brakes! And smart gearing! Every time I've tried to resurrect an old bike, even one in good shape, I've had to modernize some of the components to suit my preferences. That could run into many hundreds of dollars.

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[Tim McNamara]

There is a tendency to look back with rose colored glasses in the world of bikes, guitars and amps, whatever. The majority of 1970s bikes were really crappy, not even as good as most of the bikes currently sold at Target. I spent many hours in my bike shop wrench days fixing the "BMA/6" bikes to try to make them operable. Even the lower end imports from Motobecane, Gitane, Peugeot, etc., were pretty much junk. And the top end bikes weren't much better made than the current mid-level bikes from Rivendell.

While the Bridgestones of yore are highly revered, the current offerings from Riv and others blow them out of the water. My wife's Heron is vastly better made than her 1993 XO-1 was. The brazing on the XO-1 was crude, the lugs were crude, the paint was crude by comparison. All of the AHHs and Atlantises and Rambouillets etc. that I have seen are far, far better made bikes than the old Bridgestones.

As for components, modern mid-level stuff is far better designed and made than the old mid-level stuff. At the top end the modern stuff works better than the old stuff... although I much prefer the looks of Nuovo Record and I use friction shifting on most of my bikes :-) We all have our rose colored glasses.

Tim

On Apr 13, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It may be blasphemous to say, but bikes have improved over the decades. Just something simple: almost all new non-race bikes have rack mounts and bottle bosses. Try to find that feature on most 1970s bikes. And fattish tire clearance is easier to find on current bikes than on bikes from earlier generations. Also, I have to believe that most cyclists prefer indexed shifting (RBW people excepted). And don't get me started on brakes! And smart gearing! Every time I've tried to resurrect an old bike, even one in good shape, I've had to modernize some of the components to suit my preferences. That could run into many hundreds of dollars.
>

[Matt Beebe]

I'm not sure who is looking through rose-colored glasses.     Unless you want to buy a new Rivendell for $2000 and up (which is well worth it, but perhaps beyond budget), you absolutely will not find a better bike for less than $500 than a 1980's Trek including any model from the 400 to the 720, or any number of specimen from Specialized, Fuji, Univega, late 80's Centurion, Bridgestones (as mentioned), many of which had bottle bosses and fender/rack mounts, good components (certainly better than you will find on a sub $500 bike today), attractive, long-lasting steel frames, and geometries that compare to the most comfortable (non-rivendell) bikes made today.    If you're scared of vintage, you can find $1000+ bikes that were made in the 90's or 2000's at a steep discount, often less than $500, virtually unridden.     The late 90's/early 2000's trek 520 or Fuji Tourings are good examples.

Here's a nice Trek 420 for $420:
http://madison.craigslist.org/bik/3728345005.html

This is a Fuji Cadenza MTB for $175:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bik/3740889274.html

Or a sweet larger sized MTB for $100:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/bik/3679764778.html

A Trek 620, $350:
http://worcester.craigslist.org/bik/3701528954.html

59cm Bridgestone CB-0 for $500.    Barely ever used:
http://pullman.craigslist.org/bid/3671050042.html


Matt

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

There is no one bike for everybody.

Today I saw a Trek 7.1 FX on the light rail train in Minneapolis. Just guessing it's a $450ish new bike. From an unbiased viewpoint, it has lots of attractive features. Good tire clearance (fendered 700x40 easy), smart gearing, good brakes, high handlebars. Easy to rack and fender. Sure, it had lower end Shimano Alivio components, but I'm not sure that 20-year-old XT parts worked any better or were more durable than present day Alivio. Obviously it lacks the cachet and street cred of a vintage steed, but not everybody who wants a bike to ride shares that nostalgia. For most cyclists shopping in this price range and wanting a good bike with minimal hassle, I'd not hesitate to recommend this model. Just walk into a Trek shop and buy it. No hunting Craigslist, no uncertainty about history or worn/broken parts, and a warranty!

Of course, the case could be made that a suitable older bike is worth the extra effort and risk of chasing down Craigslist leads and fixing up the bike as needed. Many of us here enjoy that sort of thing. Many of our significant others, little sisters, buddies at work, etc, probably don't have that hobby, and don't understand why buying a bike has to be a fussy, complicated process. Those of use who've been drinking the kool-aid for years sometimes forget that not everybody shares our tastes or our willingness to put up with inconvenience. For better or worse, the mass market bikes are excellent for mass market cyclists.

[James Warren]

My brother didn't have much budget for a bike, but wanted for camping/riding. He got a Trek 7.1 FX, and he and I had a great time touring for two nights out in Marin.

But there was one big issue: with its cheaper wheels, he has a lot of spoke-breaking problems on this bike. It's more frequent than should be considered tolerable for a reliable bike. To keep using this bike in the ways he likes (commuting, overnighters), he is going to need a better rear wheel. If this is typical of the model, I'd say that adds about $200 to its price. Solid wheels are non-negotiable.

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James Warren

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- 700x55

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I agree that the wheels on the typical hybrid are pretty cheesy. Of course, the older used bikes aren't necessarily going to have great stock wheels either.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

James, if you have a local wheel builder, I'd suggest having him or her use the existing hub and rim with new DT or Wheelsmith spokes and appropriate spoke tension. Should be under $100.

[Matthew J]

I was unable to find the perfect '70s era Masi for anywhere near the price Tom Kellogg of Spectrum charge me to make a 30th anniversary bike for me with Columbus SL tubing.  It is kind of the best of both eras.  The wonderful Geo and looks of the 70s, but much more tire clearance (currently using the new Grand Bois 700x30 Extra Legers, could easily fit 35s), the brazing and lug work is definitely better (may the bike gods strike me down for dissing Fidelio!) and Tom's wizardry with the paint is second to none.

I am very happy with the DT Simplex Retrofriction shifters.  So sometimes I may not know exactly which gear I am in.  As long as pedaling is comfortable, what else do I need?

[James Warren]

Thank you!

On Apr 13, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

James, if you have a local wheel builder, I'd suggest having him or her use the existing hub and rim with new DT or Wheelsmith spokes and appropriate spoke tension. Should be under $100.

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