Does bar bag weight effect handling?

[lungimsam]

 

I have a small siddle bag I put on my race bike for more storage in a pinch. Looked great, worked great. I'm leavin' it on there!

 

Was thinking of getting a big barbag for the Bleriot sometime, after I get it back from the shop (hopefully within a week, but don't know how the coming hurricane will play into this).

 

Does the weight ever effect handling? Or is it fine no matter what the load in a bar bag (within reason).

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I think this topic has been covered a few times, so a quick run through the archives would be helpful.

To give the nickel tour:

- Yes, weight will affect handling.  Whether this matters depends a great deal on the rider.
- As one would think, more weight will affect handling more.
- Many people (myself included) adapt quickly to changes in front-loaded setups and it is not a concern within a short bit of distance.
- Other folks notice the weight and feel it degrades performance.
- 5 pounds is a lot in a bar bag.  More than that and you might want to think about panniers.

Hope that gets you started!

- Jim

[charlie]

Rivendell frames are supposedly designed with a bias towards rear loading rather than front......hence the emphasis on saddle bags over large front box style bags but........Grant seems to load his bike with a front basket and a rear saddlebag. There has been quite a bit of discussion in other publications on front loading and low trail fork design but I've use my Hobo bag up front stuffed full with tools and clothing and never noticed a major handling change. I think there is a difference but its minor unless a certain combination of rider weight, load bias and tubing gauge are all present at the same time. The wrong combo can result in a bicycle with noticeable shimmy at certain speeds. I'd say keep the load balanced and not too heavy on the front and you'll be okay. Actually a smaller saddlebag in the rear and a smaller front bag is a nice combo keeping the load balanced and the handling neutral.

[BSWP]

I notice the weight, but it's not detrimental.

Yesterday I rode home from TJ's with two bottles of wine, a quart of milk, a quart of OJ, three pounds of nuts and cheese, a pound of salami, and pound of coffee, all in the Sackville shopsack in my small Wald basket on the Nitto mini rack (on the fixed QuickBeam). I keep some tools and cable lock in the 'sack all the time, so the added weight was close to 13 extra pounds, up front, below the bars and just above the wheel.

The bike handles less quickly, my inputs get damped and smoothed out, but it's fine and not anything I don't adjust to pretty quickly. Also, bumps in the pavement that would disrupt the steering seem to have less impact.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[RJM]

I ride with a Sackville Barsack on my Hillborne and really like it. My usual setup on the bike is the sackville tool roll under the seat containing all my tools, tubes, pump and patches along with the barsack up front containing clothing, any food and maybe a spare bottle of water if I am on a really long ride. The setup works great for me. If I put a full water bottle into the barsack along with a few heavier items I can feel a change in the way the bike handles, it is a little less responsive and on steeper hills the front will tend to wander. I get used to it right away and don't feel hampered by the change in the way the bike feels. The feel does change though with, say, more than 5 lbs up there in the front.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I think that how "well" a bike handles with front -- or rear -- load
depends in good part -- not all by any means -- on both the
positioning of the rider and the tolerance of the rider for a given
feel or lack of another given feel.

That said, it also depends on how the load is carried: forward or
behind axle; high or low; tightly secured or floppy.

I once put 25+ lb in two small Ortlieb front Packers on a Tubus (=
very stiff and low) Taras on a Sam HIll and found that I could barely
persuade the front wheel to turn -- that was weird. OTOH, I've carried
5-6 lb on a slip-over-bar-and-stem VO front bag mount on my
lightweight Joe Stark gofast that put the bag forward, high and left
if rather floppy, and it worked fine. (I briefly had a Nitto Boxy Bag
and related bar-clamp rack on a Fuji Royale that made handling so
floppy that I immediately took it off. The same bike became rock solid
with 30 lb set low in rear panniers.)

My experience with 4 Rivendells and my particular positioning on them
(saddle way back, a lowish and somewhat stretched forward position
even with bar higher than saddle) AND my particular taste makes me
conclude that Rivs do best with rear loads but are tolerant of
moderate front ones.

For me, the acid test of front load handling is to sit way back on a
saddle and ride a bike up a steep hill in a very low gear with a front
load of at least 20 lb. I've ridden bikes that were so hard to keep in
a straight line that they were frightening.

I've been experimenting with such front loads on the Fargo -- ie, 20+
in front, nothing significant in back -- which I think (can anyone
give figures?) is a lower trail design than most Rivs and it seems to
be more stable; in fact, 20 lb or so low and in front seems to make
the steering more stable compared to carrying only a rear load.

On my erstwhile Herse I once had a huge platform rack and a custom
front rack bag into which I'd cram up to 30 lb. The Herse was
definitely a low trail design, but OTOH, it was not designed for heavy
touring or porteur loads -- Jan opined that it was a long distance
randonneur bike designed for fastish, self-contained "diagonales" --
ie, long distance, light load brevets. Anyway, the Herse certainly
handled big front loads better than any other bike I've owned, but I
personally didn't like the way it handled with more than, say, 15 lb
in front -- suggesting again that so much of what is "acceptable"
depends on personal taste.

I know that too many Riv riders carry big loads in baskets (ie,
forward and high) to claim that Rivs don't carry front loads well. For
such riders I have two questions:

1. Is your riding position upright or stretched?

2. How does the bike with 20 lb+ load in basket or front rack or bag
handle on a steep hill when you are climbing seated in a small gear?

Here is something you *don't* want: a Schwinn World Traveler with
Newsboy basket tested with two cinderblocks of 26 12 lb each. I
actually rode this setup for about 150 feet and decided that it wasn't
for me. The S WT handled just fine with 40 lb in rear panniers.

[PATRICK MOORE]

I meant to say: I know, too, that many Riv riders carry big loads in
baskets ... I was not making a moral judgment!

[jimD]

Dr. Douglas Brooks is his very articulate writing has characterized Rivendell bikes as 'resourceful'.
I take this to mean that he finds Rivendell designs to be adaptable.

This has been my experience with my Custom and Saluki.

Generally I ride with seat bags. On longer rides or during the inclement seasons (such as they are here in Calif.)
I add a front bag and discern no degradation in handling. On the Saluki I use a mini loafer on a Mark's rack.
On the custom I mount a Riv Bar bag.

JimD

[dougP]

The short answer is "Yes, but...."  How much weight; balance front v rear; riding style; rider's ability to adapt all play into it.  There is no formula that predicts an individual outcome.  As Jim points out, the archives contain long discussions about this very subject in minute detail. 

General thought:  if you're thinking about something to hold your pocket junk (wallet, phone, keys, etc) plus lunch & a light jacket, probably no problem.  Big boxy bar bag with a lock, tools, tubes, more clothes, maps, lots'o'food ( long day's worth), rain jacket, etc., you're gonna notice it.  Will it cause a problem?  Only one way for you to find out. 

Caveat:  stuff expands to fill available space. 

dougP

On Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:01:04 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote: