Is the Bleriot going?

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rrupp

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May 8, 2008, 10:17:06 PM5/8/08
to RBW Owners Bunch

Was reading something on the Hiawatha Cyclery blog about bikes they
want to sell and saw a little tidbit intimating that the Bleriot may
not be around much longer. I quote:

"* I understand that the Bleriot may not be around much longer. Get
one while you can."

Anybody know what's up?

Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

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May 8, 2008, 10:53:08 PM5/8/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
Yes, please have a look at our inventory clearance list. Some good
deals there:
http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2008/05/bikes-that-need-to-go.html

As for the Bleriot's demise, I can only hazard a guess. Internet
sources sell them for under $500, which is roughly a break-even point.
Rivendell and Rivendell dealers sell them for $750 which represents a
reasonable margin. It's hard to compete with sellers that use the
Bleriot as a loss-leader. I will be sorry to see the Bleriot go, but
I'm happy that it was largely responsible for the mass market getting
a look at 650B.

Esteban

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May 9, 2008, 3:35:38 AM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
Last I spoke with RBW, they talked about new Bleriots on the agenda,
perhaps in a green. Don't know if that was just something on the
table, but that's what I heard.

Bruce

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May 9, 2008, 9:44:30 AM5/9/08
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Not sure I understand the pricing issue. If all Bleriots are imported by RBW, THEY control what they sell them to distributors and ebay sellers for.

Bleriot frames are $750 on the RBW website (at least until the new prices show up) but $650 from ebay seller "ultimate bikes."  If RBW sold them to Ultimate for $675, then the ebayer could make 10% on them as a resale, if they too listed them for $750. 

B


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Sean Whelan

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May 9, 2008, 9:54:57 AM5/9/08
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Jim-
You are in the Twin Cities. Couldn't you just call QBP? Isn't it really QBP who decides the fate of the Bleriot?

Sean


Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, please have a look at our inventory clearance list. Some good
deals there:
http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2008/05/bikes-that-need-to-go.html

As for the Bleriot's demise, I can only hazard a guess. Internet
sources sell them for under $500, which is roughly a break-even point.
Rivendell and Rivendell dealers sell them for $750 which represents a
reasonable margin. It's hard to compete with sellers that use the
Bleriot as a loss-leader. I will be sorry to see the Bleriot go, but
I'm happy that it was largely responsible for the mass market getting
a look at 650B.

Mike

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May 9, 2008, 10:38:59 AM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
I'd love it if the Bleriot took a nap to make room for another
similarly priced bike similar to the AHH. And available in sizes at
least through 63.

mike


On May 9, 6:54 am, Sean Whelan <strummer_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jim-
> You are in the Twin Cities. Couldn't you just call QBP? Isn't it really QBP who decides the fate of the Bleriot?
>
> Sean
>

Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

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May 9, 2008, 11:07:58 AM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
As I understand it, the Bleriot was sort of a partnership between RBW
and QBP. RBW's cachet and design prowess combined with QBP's buying
power and industry connections. I don't believe it's accurate to say
that ALL Bleriots are imported by RBW and sold to QBP (and it may be
that the opposite is true, as was once suggested in the Reader or some
RBW catalog). I have no knowledge of the details of the deal, but one
upside is that 650B found a home at a major distributor, which I
suspect was a goal of RBW in entering the partnership. Aside from my
earlier price competition speculation and a few other speculative
ideas, I don't know why the Bleriot is going away, but I surmise that
one or both parties (QBP and/or RBW) decided it wasn't in their best
interest to keep it going. I'm pretty sure a phone call from me to QBP
isn't going to be the factor that swings the pendulum. I detached
myself from that fantasy a long time ago.

Of course, if you happen to ride a 57, 59, or 61, there are still
Bleriot frames for you at QBP (and some at HC, by the way). Maybe RBW
has other sizes in stock, too. No need to sit at the computer
lamenting this event when Bleriot framesets are still readily
available (for now).

I should add that I don't speak for RBW, and, in fact, am not as 'in
the loop' as some other contributors to this forum. I speculate on
such developments only as a hobby.

Jim

On May 9, 8:54 am, Sean Whelan <strummer_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jim-
> You are in the Twin Cities. Couldn't you just call QBP? Isn't it really QBP who decides the fate of the Bleriot?
>
> Sean
>

valb...@ix.netcom.com

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May 9, 2008, 11:39:33 AM5/9/08
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Here are my own speculations:

1. The Bleriot is going to continue as long as QBP finds it profitable for
them.
2. Some RBW models will be made in Taiwan by next year if the US dollar
continues to weaken against the yen. And Grant will be able to rationalize
this that this is still good.

Rene

valb...@ix.netcom.com
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thil...@gmail.com>


> To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

> Date: 5/9/2008 8:08:06 AM


> Subject: [RBW] Re: Is the Bleriot going?
>
>

Bill Connell

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May 9, 2008, 11:46:39 AM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:39 AM, <valb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Here are my own speculations:
>
> 1. The Bleriot is going to continue as long as QBP finds it profitable for
> them.
> 2. Some RBW models will be made in Taiwan by next year if the US dollar
> continues to weaken against the yen. And Grant will be able to rationalize
> this that this is still good.

I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing if there is another
Riv bike from Taiwan. They are completely up-front on where their
bikes are built, there's no deception about it, as many other bike
companies practice. There's a directly comparable choice between the
Bleriot and the Saluki, and their catalog is pretty honest about it.
Rivendell still has Toyo build plenty of bikes, and from US builders
like Waterford and Mark Nobilette. It's not like they're dumping all
of their old suppliers, if anything they are more diversified now
(even Taiwan aside) on the frame suppliers than they've been in years.
I don't see the problem.

--
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

Mike Havran

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May 9, 2008, 11:47:35 AM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Additionally to your point #2, the weakening USD may also tempt RBW to look
at, cherish the thought, USA production (although maybe not for the
Bleroit).
Mike

Brewster Fong

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May 9, 2008, 12:25:29 PM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch


On May 9, 6:54 am, Sean Whelan <strummer_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jim-
> You are in the Twin Cities. Couldn't you just call QBP? Isn't it really QBP who decides the fate of the Bleriot?
>
> Sean
>
> Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, please have a look at our inventory clearance list. Some good
> deals there:http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2008/05/bikes-that-need-to-go.html
>
> As for the Bleriot's demise, I can only hazard a guess. Internet
> sources sell them for under $500, which is roughly a break-even point.
> Rivendell and Rivendell dealers sell them for $750 which represents a
> reasonable margin. It's hard to compete with sellers that use the
> Bleriot as a loss-leader. I will be sorry to see the Bleriot go, but
> I'm happy that it was largely responsible for the mass market getting
> a look at 650B.
>
I recall someone had posted the *wholesale* price of the Bleriot as
being either $400 or $450 each. So, if a "dealer" is selling one at
$500, its basically is a loss-leader.

But, the question is whether the "mass market" is really looking at
650B. In SF, I have only seen one or two of these bikes. The mass
market may be looking, but even at $500, its not exactly flying out
the door. Brewster

Tim McNamara

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May 9, 2008, 1:33:04 PM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

On May 9, 2008, at 10:39 AM, "" <valb...@ix.netcom.com>
<valb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Here are my own speculations:
>
> 1. The Bleriot is going to continue as long as QBP finds it
> profitable for
> them.

Logical enough.

> 2. Some RBW models will be made in Taiwan by next year if the US
> dollar
> continues to weaken against the yen. And Grant will be able to
> rationalize
> this that this is still good.

It *would* be good. Japanese craftsmanship and all is nice, but fine
bikes can be made in Taiwan too, and why should lugged steel frames
be priced astronomically? $1300 for a frame is actually pretty
astronomical. $750 for a frame is pretty astronomical, for that matter.

valb...@ix.netcom.com

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May 9, 2008, 3:21:01 PM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
The Bleriot is marketed as a 650b bike. What if it is marketed also as
700c? There is enough brake clearance and with a bottom bracket drop
of 67mm, the bb height is going to be reasonable. I am just running
out of excuses to my wife to get another bike; but if I found one, I
will try a Bleriot as a 700c bike. I think it will work as a semi-go-
fast 700c bike. -- Rene
> the door. Brewster- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Larry Powers

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May 9, 2008, 3:26:07 PM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I tried 700c wheel on my Wife's Bleriot to see how they would fit.  I think the wheels had 28mm tires and they fit but it looked like fenders would make for a tight fit. 

Larry Powers

"just when you think that you've been gyped
the bearded lady comes and does a double back flip" - John Hiatt


> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:21:01 -0700

> Subject: [RBW] Re: Is the Bleriot going?

valb...@ix.netcom.com

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May 9, 2008, 3:28:47 PM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
Hi Larry,

How was ride?

Rene

On May 9, 12:26 pm, Larry Powers <lapower...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I tried 700c wheel on my Wife's Bleriot to see how they would fit.  I think the wheels had 28mm tires and they fit but it looked like fenders would make for a tight fit. Larry Powers"just when you think that you've been gypedthe bearded lady comes and does a double back flip" - John Hiatt> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:21:01 -0700> Subject: [RBW] Re: Is the Bleriot going?> From: valbu...@ix.netcom.com> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> > > The Bleriot is marketed as a 650b bike. What if it is marketed also as> 700c? There is enough brake clearance and with a bottom bracket drop> of 67mm, the bb height is going to be reasonable. I am just running> out of excuses to my wife to get another bike; but if I found one, I> will try a Bleriot as a 700c bike. I think it will work as a semi-go-> fast 700c bike. -- Rene> > On May 9, 9:25 am, Brewster Fong <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > On May 9, 6:54 am, Sean Whelan <strummer_...@yahoo.com> wrote:> >> >> >> > > Jim-> > > You are in the Twin Cities. Couldn't you just call QBP? Isn't it really QBP who decides the fate of the Bleriot?> >> > > Sean> >> > > Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com> wrote:> > > Yes, please have a look at our inventory clearance list. Some good> > > deals there:http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2008/05/bikes-that-need-to-go.html> >> > > As for the Bleriot's demise, I can only hazard a guess. Internet> > > sources sell them for under $500, which is roughly a break-even point.> > > Rivendell and Rivendell dealers sell them for $750 which represents a> > > reasonable margin. It's hard to compete with sellers that use the> > > Bleriot as a loss-leader. I will be sorry to see the Bleriot go, but> > > I'm happy that it was largely responsible for the mass market getting> > > a look at 650B.> >> > I recall someone had posted the *wholesale* price of the Bleriot as> > being either $400 or $450 each. So, if a "dealer" is selling one at> > $500, its basically is a loss-leader.> >> > But, the question is whether the "mass market" is really looking at> > 650B. In SF, I have only seen one or two of these bikes. The mass> > market may be looking, but even at $500, its not exactly flying out> > the door. Brewster- Hide quoted text -> >> > - Show quoted text -> _________________________________________________________________
> Make Windows Vista more reliable and secure with Windows Vista Service Pack 1.http://www.windowsvista.com/SP1?WT.mc_id=hotmailvistasp1banner

Larry Powers

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May 9, 2008, 3:32:34 PM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Unfortunately we didn't ride it with the 700c wheels.  I only put the on because I wanted to see if they would fit and because we didn't have the 650b wheels so I needed something to stand the bike on. 


Larry Powers

"just when you think that you've been gyped
the bearded lady comes and does a double back flip" - John Hiatt


> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:28:47 -0700

> Subject: [RBW] Re: Is the Bleriot going?

stanw...@bellsouth.net

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May 9, 2008, 6:22:06 PM5/9/08
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Actually, it makes a great 700c go fast bike. Mine is equipped with a set
of Mavic Krysirium Elite wheels running 27mm Conti Ultragatorskin tires, and
I run with the racer wannabe's on the LBS Wednesday night ride. It ain't
easy, but I suspect that has more to do with me being 53 years old and 190
lbs while they're all late 20's to early 40's.

Stan


----- Original Message -----
From: <valb...@ix.netcom.com>
To: "RBW Owners Bunch" <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Is the Bleriot going?

CycloFiend

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May 9, 2008, 6:29:01 PM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
on 5/9/08 8:39 AM, valb...@ix.netcom.com at valb...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> 2. Some RBW models will be made in Taiwan by next year if the US dollar
> continues to weaken against the yen. And Grant will be able to rationalize
> this that this is still good.

I'm not quite sure why this would be a _bad_ thing.

The only complaint that I recall seeing about the quality of Bleriots had to
do with masking of the paint - some folks on the Bleriot group mentioned
that it wasn't up to RBW's usual standards, but that it wasn't noticeable
from a couple steps back. (And masking lugs for two paint colors is not
exactly a common technique these days... )

There are also consistent threads and comments on the iBob list (and others)
that folks would love to see less expensive Rivendells. Folks have regularly
posted that they would love to see a Bleriot-type-Rambouillet or AHH.
Assuming that a percentage of those folks follow through, it could mean a
good chunk of additional business for the good folks in Walnut Creek.

Assuming that they could maintain the quality to their standards, it would
seem to be a reasonably good option for Rivendell.

- Jim

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
Current Classics - Cross Bikes
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Get your photos posted: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines

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just like that I knew it was dead"

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John at Rivendell

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May 9, 2008, 6:57:27 PM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
Some news from here. Nothing etched in stone. Details forthcoming.

The Bleriot, made in conjuction with QBP, is going away at the end of
June. It's been a great frame, at a great price.

QBP was great to work with, and there are no bad feelings on either
side.

If everything goes according to plan, we will have new frames, also
made in Taiwan, also attractively priced, available
next Spring to our own retail customers and to our dealers. It will be
a Riv-only thing.

We will still sell Japanese and American frames. This will just be an
additional tier. The quality will be commensurate
with the price. Better, in fact. They will be good, strong, attractive
bikes.

Expect a Mixte, a Hilsen-like, and an Atlantis-type.

That's all we know for now. Pricing, geometry, colors, details, and
sizes to be determined.

Have a good weekend, everyone.

Cheers,

John



On May 9, 3:29 pm, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> on 5/9/08 8:39 AM, valbu...@ix.netcom.com at valbu...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > 2. Some RBW models will be made in Taiwan by next year if the US dollar
> > continues to weaken against the yen. And Grant will be able to rationalize
> > this that this is still good.
>
> I'm not quite sure why this would be a _bad_ thing.
>
> The only complaint that I recall seeing about the quality of Bleriots had to
> do with masking of the paint - some folks on the Bleriot group mentioned
> that it wasn't up to RBW's usual standards, but that it wasn't noticeable
> from a couple steps back. (And masking lugs for two paint colors is not
> exactly a common technique these days... )
>
> There are also consistent threads and comments on the iBob list (and others)
> that folks would love to see less expensive Rivendells. Folks have regularly
> posted that they would love to see a Bleriot-type-Rambouillet or AHH.
> Assuming that a percentage of those folks follow through, it could mean a
> good chunk of additional business for the good folks in Walnut Creek.
>
> Assuming that they could maintain the quality to their standards, it would
> seem to be a reasonably good option for Rivendell.
>
> - Jim
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com

Mike

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May 9, 2008, 7:15:47 PM5/9/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
Thanks for the update John! Wow, that's some good news.

I've been collecting parts for an AHH for a while and placed an order
yesterday to get a few things before the price hike. All I really need
now is the frame and wheels. I'm hoping to have the AHH come together
this summer but if it doesn't maybe I'll just hold off until next
year.

--mike

Bruce

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May 9, 2008, 8:21:01 PM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Lemeno when I can get a deposit down on this one...

----- Original Message ----
From: John at Rivendell <jo...@rivbike.com>

, and an Atlantis-type.



Thanks for the handle on rumor control.


Eric Daume

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May 9, 2008, 8:33:44 PM5/9/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
A reasonably priced AHH? Looks like my Casseroll will be for sale next spring.

Eric D
Dublin OH

Big Paulie

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May 10, 2008, 12:42:05 PM5/10/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
> Actually, it makes a great 700c go fast bike.  Mine is equipped with a set
> of Mavic Krysirium Elite wheels running 27mm Conti Ultragatorskin tires, and
> I run with the racer wannabe's on the LBS Wednesday night ride.  It ain't
> easy, but I suspect that has more to do with me being 53 years old and 190
> lbs while they're all late 20's to early 40's.
>
> Stan


Stan,

In terms of front end stability, how did the 700c Bleriot handle?
Could you squeeze 33.3 Jack Browns into that frame? Which brake length
works with that combination?

Thanks!

Paul

Esteban

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May 10, 2008, 11:48:19 PM5/10/08
to RBW Owners Bunch
Just a thought - if Riv is moving forward, potentially, with a AHH and
Atlantis-like Taiwan versions, does that mean that 650B-to-the-masses
that the Bleriot represented is no longer needed, as the size has
enough momentum?

CycloFiend

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May 11, 2008, 12:17:31 AM5/11/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

I'm guessing here, but suspect that the '09 AHH may have 650B/584 in the
smaller sizes and 700C/622 in the larger.

- Jim

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com


Current Classics - Cross Bikes
Singlespeed - Working Bikes


"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do
it."
Mahatma Gandhi


stanw...@bellsouth.net

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May 12, 2008, 4:09:47 PM5/12/08
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
It handles very well Paul. Easy, but not twitchy the turn-in; holds a line
in a turn, yet is willing to change lines if I ask it to; great straight
line, hands off stability.

The Jack Brown's will fit the bike fine - plenty of clearance below the fork
crown and between the legs. The problem is going to be the brakes. I have
105's on my Bleriot and the Jack Brown's I run on my commuter won't fit
beneath them. I'm going to investigate alternative brakes myself as I'm
sold on the wider tires. Especially on the coarse aggregate roads around
here.

Stan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Big Paulie" <pauld...@yahoo.com>
To: "RBW Owners Bunch" <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Is the Bleriot going?


Stan,

Thanks!

Paul

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