Advice on herd thinning (or, scheming to get another bike)

[Sky Coulter]

Hey All,

I have a bunch of bikes, with a fair bit of overlap, and yet I find myself lusting after n+1. At the same time, I don't have a lot of cash to throw toward a new bike and love the idea of reducing the number of bikes I have.  So I'm kind of inclined to sell off one or two to make more physical and mental space and to fund the pursuit of the N+1.  With that in mind I invite advice, jeers, and any other comments you might feel inclined to make in helping guide and influence my decision process. It's a wordy post and probably of limited interest, but there are pictures at least.

pictures here:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/140959259@N03/albums/72157681401817736/with/32640008764/

The N+1 I'm after is a 55cm silver appaloosa. It's quite a bit smaller in seat tube length than my other bikes, but Will told me the standover is 83.5cm and the stack and reach numbers on the geometry chart look about right for me. I'll build it up with drop bars. Will thought the 58cm would probably be a better fit, but I think the older I get the more standover clearance I'm likely to want.

In the stable currently are:

1. 60cm butterscotch Saluki. Probably my best fitting bike with a 84cm standover on 42mm parimotos (measuring closer to 38mm).  Not a bike I'm really willing to part with.  It's quite possibly the nicest bike I'll ever own and I can see riding it until I can't swing a leg over the saddle.

2. 60cm twin top tube dark green  Bombadil.  This one is probably the most likely to get moved on as the standover is a bit too tight for comfort.  It's ok on level ground, but a quick dismount on uneven terrain is a frightening proposition.  my pbh is 89cm, although generally I go by 88cm as I seem to prefer a slight size down approach with rivendells.  The standover on the bombadil with 45cm tires is ~88.5cm, which is ok for controlled dismounts, but really, feels a little too big.  My reluctance to sell it at the moment is that selling the frame alone won't get me enough for a replacement frame that fits and that if I sell it as a complete, I'll need to buy a new build kit.

3. 59cm orange Clementine. This bike won't go anywhere for the next while. It's really my baby daughter's bike, I just act as a chauffeur.

4. 61cm light blue Romulus.  I love this bike.  It feels the fastest of the bikes I own.  Unfortunately it does overlap a fair bit with the Saluki so it's a bit redundant to keep around. Currently I tell myself that it can be differentiated as my "beater" bike and ridden in crappy vancouver winter weather. But really, I'm just lying to myself there; I'd be perfectly willing to ride the saluki in crappy weather too and with the wider tires it's probably a better choice.  Really, I don't wanna sell it because I'm attached to it and I don't think it'd ever sell for as much as it's worth to me.  But I feel a little guilty holding onto it because it takes up space and doesn't offer anything the other bikes don't.

5. 2016 61cm matte black Specialized Sequoia.  I bought this a month ago to try out the allroad category from a big bike company and to try STI shifting and mechanical disk brakes.  It's alright.  I don't think I'll like it as much as my rivs and I kinda regret buying it instead of pre-ordering an appa frameset, but I wanted to try something different. I'd like to keep it for a year or so, try a couple different things with it before deciding to move it on.

So if you were in my shoes, and the Clementine and Saluki were the two bikes you intend to hold onto no matter what, what would u do?

thanks,

Sky in new west

[WETH]

Sky,
I'll get things started. If I were you, I'd sell the Bombadil as a complete package to fund the Appaloosa. I'd then move the Romulus' components to the Appaloosa and keep the Romulus frameset to see how much you miss riding it. If you really want to use it as a beater, buy some used parts and build away.

Finally, if you ever decide to sell that lovely Saluki, please let me know! ;)

Good luck with n+1!
Erl

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks Erl..that's a plan I hadn't considered...sky

[Valerie Yates]

Fun question. It sounds to me like you'd be happiest selling the Bombadi because it is too big for the kind of riding you'd like to do with it and the Sequoia because you don't love it.  I would not sell a bike I love even if overlaps with something else. You love the Romulus so I don't see why part with it. That seems a path of regrets. I have never regretted selling a bike I don't love. If you are not ready to sell the Sequoia this year, then wait on the Appaloosa until you are. If the Bombadil parts will work on the Appaloosa, then just sell the frame. 

Val in Boulder, CO

[Bob Lovejoy]

Sky,

It seems we live in parallel universes, except yours is a lot , LOT, nicer!  You have chosen well...

I do agree with Erl's recommendation on selling the Bombadil as that should cover Appaloosa costs.  That, and the Appa, set up the way you are intending, with drops and all, might be a mostly worthy and better fitting replacement.

And saving the Romulus as a frame (or complete) has merit.  You would be very hard pressed to find another 61cm I am thinking, though I suppose not impossible.  I sold my 61cm Romulus way back when and it is the one bike I most regret selling.

Also, I made the same kind of decision lately building a new Specialized AWOL.   You should ride the Specialized early and often and decide if it will ever really measure up or be used in a way that the Rivs cannot.  The problem with selling the Specialized is you will probably not get really close to what you paid.  BUT... the best bikes are the ones we love, the ones that call to us.  My AWOL is a perfectly good bike, with new technology and a great build, but the Cheviot I have, and an old Thorn tourer call to me more.

Anyway, from my universe to yours!

Bob

[Sky Coulter]

Val,

Thanks for the input. What u say is wise. Once gone a bike is gone. But i have found a reluctance to sell every bike i've ever sold. So sometimes i worry it's more a hoarder tendency than a true love. And though you're right, the sequoia hasn't made my heart sing, it took me a while to get the saluki just right. So i worry about giving up on it too soon.

I think right now, i'd be more inclined to keep the romulus than to sell it. And even if i can't justify the space, i'd probably go w erl's suggestion and just box the frame for fear of remorse rather than selling it.

Sky in new west

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks Bob,

Good advice. I took the AWOL for a quick spin too. I really quite liked it. But i felt a bit more comfortably stretched out on the sequoia, although i quite liked the improved clearance on the AWOL.

Sky in new west

[Valerie Yates]

Well, you don't sound too reluctant to see the Bombadil, so that's something. 

I wonder if a drop bar Appaloosa will make you happy. Has anyone been happy with that set-up? I love mine but feels very clearly an upright style bike. I feel on top of the world and can see forever when I ride it. I like drop bars fine on other bikes but, on an Appaloosa, it would be like buying a convertible and only ever driving it with the hard top. 

[Sky Coulter]

I don't really know for sure if the appa will work w drops, but i think it will, otherwise i prolly wouldn't be interested in it. The other rivendell option would be a 61cm atlantis. The stack and reach numbers b/w it and the 55cm appa are pretty similar. But if those numbers are similar, then the deciding factors for me are standover and asthetics. The 61cm atlantis is 85.1 as per the geo chart and will tells me the 55 appa is 83.5. I can tolerate up to 88cm, but i prefer it low, like the 84cm on my saluki. So i do tend to think the appa w drops should work. The saluki's top tube is 59.5. the appa's is 59.8 w a stack of 618 and a reach of 381.7 or something close. I feel confident enough that those numbers should work for me with drops that i'd be willing to buy one.

And if i do and then take it for a spin and it turns out i was wrong, i promise to post here at length about it, gnash me teeth, rend my clothes, and wail my misfortune to all, so as to save any other foolish souls from making a similar mistake :)

Sky in new west

[Tony DeFilippo]

You've got good 'problems'! :)  Great photo's and really gorgeous builds and bikes.

And you and I are about the same size... I've also got a 60cm Saluki which is the jewel in my collection and recently sold a 56 Bombadil.  I've never ridden a 60 Bombadil but given the fit of the 56 I don't think it would have worked well for me at least as the off pavement workhorse it was built to be.  For me personally 3-4 bikes is about the max for getting enough riding out of each of them to be worth it. Actually last year I had the Saluki, Bomba, XO-3 and Bob Jackson go-fast built and available almost the full year, the usage was about 80/15/4/1.  Your comments on the Romulus sound alot like my own for my Bob Jackson, without a doubt the quickest, lightest bike I own and w/ Compass 32mm tires it has 'magic'... but I don't ride it much, its not built up for carrying a commuting load and when I swapped my Saluki back to drop bars and unloaded it I feel like I've got 95% of the same sensation w/ extra cargo capacity and nicer lugs...  Unlike my attempts to sell the Jackson you'd probably find a pretty willing market on the Romulus.

Chris/Pondero made a comment to me and I think on the board about a year ago about continuing to build up the same bike over and over again that really struck a chord with me.  The dilemma/opportunity of an all-rounder frame is the draw to continuously re-imagine it.  Right now I'm more about perfecting each bike in it's existing build rather than re-building it up with different personalities.

Not sure exactly how to bend this back to your OP but I guess I'd say I heartily agree with your keep the Saluki/Clementine (wife has a 52 Clementine and its great!).  Like the others I'd say shop the Bombadil and I'd depart from the others a bit and say shop the Romulus to... commit to the next frame, burn your ships, er bikes! :)  Use the funds to splurge on some Saluki or Clementine components if you have anything leftover from the Appaloosa build.  On the Specialized sounds like you've got the right idea to ride it till you figure it out one way or another.

[Christopher Murray]

Sell the Bomba and keep the rest. It sounds like you know this is the best option but the price you'd likely get for the Bomba vs the price of the Appaloosa is stopping you. I'd sell the Bomba complete and buy a complete Appaloosa. Take off the parts you don't want and sell them. From your description the Bomba is just too big for you to be comfortable and there's no way to make it smaller. Sell it and move on!

Chris

[Mark in Beacon]

What are you expecting from the Appaloosa that you are not getting from your current bicycles? If it's the thrill of a new bike, a silver paint job, that's fine. But realize you will probably be in the same situation a year from now.

My advice would be sell the Bombadil and put the money in a bike slush fund, but don't commit to anything for the summer, just ride the bikes you have. Then see where you're at. Maybe a used Wilbury or Gomez or Cheviut in your size will come up for sale, and you won't have to worry about standover.

I generally deal with my obsession by buying used bicycles pretty cheap and circulating and selling parts and stuff to keep me at not too much money spent each year. And now that I have a 7-year-old who enjoys riding, I get to buy bikes for him. I also like to help out friends.

[Eric Norris]

I'm taking this whole thread about getting rid of bikes and deleting it before my wife sees it.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks Tony, I appreciate your comments.  Ya, I think the 56cm bomba would have been a better fit for me too.  I think there is a consensus building pretty quickly that the bomba should go and that the romulus should be next in line.  

I can't really think of much more that I'd want to tweak on the Saluki -- except maybe a lugged stem. But the work of undoing the shellacked bare tape will probably keep me from doing that for the next couple years at least.  And I'm pretty happy with the clementine as it is. I do have some fancier parts, like IRD thumbshifters that I could put on it, but since tightening the existing shifters, I haven't felt any need to swap them out.  I kind of like the idea of trying to keep the build cheap on it, if u know what i mean.

Thanks,

Sky

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks for your advice Chris. Ya, you're right. The size problem can't be corrected so moving it on is the right choice....sky

[Sky Coulter]

Hi Mark, thanks for the thoughts.  Ya actually, some part of it is the thrill of a new bike for sure. And I do love the silver-cream colour combo.  But I guess the "reason" I want the appa is for touring.  Not that I'm likely to get away for more than a couple days anytime in the next couple years, but at some point, I'd like to do a lengthy tour again.  My current 'touring' bike is the bombadil, but it is a bit bigger than I'm comfortable with.  So I guess the thought is to sell the bomba and replace it with an appa that fits better.  The possibility of getting rid of another bike or two comes up as I try to determine whether I can or should reduce the herd further.  

I feel quite similarly about building up bikes for family members. My wife has a betty foy, a trek 620, and a modern 520; my daughter (12) has a soma buena vista, and my son (10) has a long haul trucker :). A friend and I used to build up nice budget bikes for friends under our joke bike brand "hi-5 cycles" but he died a while ago and I've been sticking mostly to just building for family members since...sky

[Sky Coulter]

Well Eric, it looks like you're already diligently thinning the herd with the rivendell road sale.  Beautiful bike by the way.  The Romulus is my budget version of your road, but I imagine if there is a lot of interest in the upcoming roadini as Rivendell indicated recently in the rbw newsletter, then I'd think your road should sell quickly at the price you've posted it for...thanks, sky

[Sky Coulter]

oops, i meant 391.7 not 381.7 for reach

[iamkeith]

1. Sell the bombadil. As noted, it's too big for you, to be used as intended.

2. Don't buy the joe. It's too small for you.

3. Buy one of the new 56cm hunqapillars, and have it painted silver for the extra $100. It is exactly the right size for you, chainstays have crept up in length (making it and the joe more similar), wooly mammoths are cooler than horses, EVERYBODY needs a mountain bike of some sort, it takes a much fatter tire than your bomba and, once you try those fatter tires, you wont want to ride anything else.

4. In a year or two, when you realize that the hunq is all you need, sell me your saluki.

(If it seems like i put a lot of thought into this exact question, it's because i have. Like Tony, Im the same size as you)

[Deacon Patrick]

Cultivate contentment?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Sky Coulter]

Oh, I plan to Patrick. It's just that clearly contentment is just around the next corner, or in this case, in the saddle of n+1.

But ya, of course. That would be the truly wise choice....sky

[Ron Mc]

pick two, offer up both, see which bites, and let the interest of others decide for you

[Sky Coulter]

Keith,

I don't see why the joe would be too small.  Comparing the stack and reach numbers the appa would get the handlebars up higher and it would have a shorter reach to the bars - which i think would work well for drops.  Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks,

Sky

[Bob Lovejoy]

Not that I am a role model for patience, but there is some wisdom here...  That said, I truly understand the timing and the lure. 

Sky - Would there be any chance for you to find and ride a 55cm Appaloosa, just to verify the numbers with actual?  I study the numbers too, and believe in them for the most part, but seeing and riding is always the better test.   Out of curiosity, how strongly was Will making his argument on sizing?

Bob

[Sky Coulter]

He pretty much said that either would work out, but he thought the 58 was the more appropriate size. He did suggest that the bar height between the 55 appa and the 60saluki would be about the same, but didn't offer much more in the way of specifics. 

 I don't think there are any appas in BC at the moment, so a try before u buy seems unlikely.

Waiting is of course a totally reasonable option. I don't need a touring bike right now and if i do then the bomba can fill that role temporarily.  I guess some of what's driving this is the desire for the new shiny thing.  And I worry that they'll sell out of the silver appas. But like Keith suggested, it is just paint and a couple hundred dollars.

sky in new west

[Bob Lovejoy]

No, I know *exactly* the feeling as I am making the same decisions.   But agreed on the paint option and all for any of the bikes.  But still I look, envision, study, imagine...  I will admit the silver Appaloosa's call to me as well. 

Bob

[Leaf Slayer]

Sell the Bombadil and Sequoia. A few years back I sold off the last of my Rivs, an AHH to make room for and fund a mountain bike. I don't regret that move. This may sound crazy, but my LHT was the bike I wish my AHH was. I had previously sold off my Rambouilet and Quickbeam. About a year before I sold the Riv I had purchased a Salsa Vaya with the intention of that being a replacement for the AHH and LHT. It just never worked out that way. I really wanted to like the Salsa with it's disc brakes and all but it just never felt right. It's now in the process of being sold. My point is, if you're really not in love with or using the bikes, move them on to someone else and make room for the bike you want. 

Once my Vaya is sold I'll likely pick-up a 26" wheeled 60cm LHT. Sure there's redundancy with my current LHT but I always regret not getting that in the first place. I've threatened to build one up for years. I have most of the parts laying around with the exception of rims. I was looking at the Alppa's for a second but I'm in-between sizing. I know the LHT will work. I also thought about the Crust Bikes Romanceur (Sp?) but again, why not just stick with what works, the LHT. And finally, I'm fine with cantis for 90% of my riding. Besides, I'll likely be selling my Krampus frame later in the year and that combined with left over funds from the Vaya sale should allow me to pick-up a new Surly Ogre frame for all my dirt road disc brake needs.

But yeah, sell the Bomba and Sequoia and get the bike you want. You should have no problem selling either.

--mike

[Jim Bronson]

I agree with Leaf Slayer, sell the Bombadil and Sequoia.

Of course, I'm the guy who keeps bikes just for the sake of keeping them, that I never ride.  I have 3 that should leave, really: my mountain bike from college (25 years ago) that's way too small, my tandem that is way too small, and my garage project fixie, I never ride them.  I have another one coming this week, a Clem Smith Jr.

On another note, the love for the Saluki is palpable.  I think Rivendell should wake this model up from it's sleep if possible.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

------------------------------------------------------------------

signature goes here

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm adding a catchphrase. From now on, the opposite of the lamentable action of "thinning the herd", will heretofore be called (by me at least) "thicking the herd".

BL in EC
ABT - Always Be Thicking

[Patrick Moore]

I'd reduce by reducing overlap. I'd want a road bike, an off road bike capable of touring, and perhaps a bike that is fun to ride but that I could lock up and lose without much wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

I'd certainly keep the Bombadil and I'd be tempted to keep the Romulus since it's the fastest. I'd certainly (in your shoes) dump the Sequoia, though if it were 30 years older, I might keep it instead of the Rom. 

And why the Appaloosa? What niche will it fill, and will it do so better than the Bombadil or the Clem? (I'm not quite sure if the Clem is similar to the Ap or not.) Certainly the Bombadil will be hard to replace, and the Saluki sounds like the ideal all rounder. 

Me, I'd not drop a bike to get a new one unless there were some real advantage to the new one over the old one to be jettisoned.

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Sky Coulter <incomm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey All,

I have a bunch of bikes, with a fair bit of overlap, and yet I find myself lusting after n+1. At the same time, I don't have a lot of cash to throw toward a new bike and love the idea of reducing the number of bikes I have.  So I'm kind of inclined to sell off one or two to make more physical and mental space and to fund the pursuit of the N+1.  With that in mind I invite advice, jeers, and any other comments you might feel inclined to make in helping guide and influence my decision process. It's a wordy post and probably of limited interest, but there are pictures at least.

pictures here:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/140959259@N03/albums/72157681401817736/with/32640008764/

The N+1 I'm after is a 55cm silver appaloosa. It's quite a bit smaller in seat tube length than my other bikes, but Will told me the standover is 83.5cm and the stack and reach numbers on the geometry chart look about right for me. I'll build it up with drop bars. Will thought the 58cm would probably be a better fit, but I think the older I get the more standover clearance I'm likely to want.

In the stable currently are:

1. 60cm butterscotch Saluki. Probably my best fitting bike with a 84cm standover on 42mm parimotos (measuring closer to 38mm).  Not a bike I'm really willing to part with.  It's quite possibly the nicest bike I'll ever own and I can see riding it until I can't swing a leg over the saddle.

2. 60cm twin top tube dark green  Bombadil.  This one is probably the most likely to get moved on as the standover is a bit too tight for comfort.  It's ok on level ground, but a quick dismount on uneven terrain is a frightening proposition.  my pbh is 89cm, although generally I go by 88cm as I seem to prefer a slight size down approach with rivendells.  The standover on the bombadil with 45cm tires is ~88.5cm, which is ok for controlled dismounts, but really, feels a little too big.  My reluctance to sell it at the moment is that selling the frame alone won't get me enough for a replacement frame that fits and that if I sell it as a complete, I'll need to buy a new build kit.

3. 59cm orange Clementine. This bike won't go anywhere for the next while. It's really my baby daughter's bike, I just act as a chauffeur.

4. 61cm light blue Romulus.  I love this bike.  It feels the fastest of the bikes I own.  Unfortunately it does overlap a fair bit with the Saluki so it's a bit redundant to keep around. Currently I tell myself that it can be differentiated as my "beater" bike and ridden in crappy vancouver winter weather. But really, I'm just lying to myself there; I'd be perfectly willing to ride the saluki in crappy weather too and with the wider tires it's probably a better choice.  Really, I don't wanna sell it because I'm attached to it and I don't think it'd ever sell for as much as it's worth to me.  But I feel a little guilty holding onto it because it takes up space and doesn't offer anything the other bikes don't.

5. 2016 61cm matte black Specialized Sequoia.  I bought this a month ago to try out the allroad category from a big bike company and to try STI shifting and mechanical disk brakes.  It's alright.  I don't think I'll like it as much as my rivs and I kinda regret buying it instead of pre-ordering an appa frameset, but I wanted to try something different. I'd like to keep it for a year or so, try a couple different things with it before deciding to move it on.

So if you were in my shoes, and the Clementine and Saluki were the two bikes you intend to hold onto no matter what, what would u do?

thanks,

Sky in new west

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.

By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

Other professional writing services.

http://www.resumespecialties.com/

www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

****************************************************************************************

The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

Le sacre est la projection du Centre celeste dans la peripherie cosmique, ou du "Moteur immobile" dans le flux des choses. F Schuon, Le Sens du Sacre, Etudes Traditionnelles, 1r q 1979

[Patrick Moore]

Whoops, just saw that the Bombadil is too big. Sorry. Well, in that case, I'd get rid of it. Even the best bike is no good if it doesn't fit. But I'd try to trade it for a smaller one.

[Tony DeFilippo]

The Saluki design of 650B at all frame sizes no longer aligns to Riv's philosophy of matching wheel sizes to frame sizes... At one point they were offering to send you either AHH or Saluki decals and head badge on the tweener sized frames though.

I love how the 60cm frame can wear 42mm tires and not feel tall. The 56 Bomba had the same trait even with 2.25" tires.

Sounds like you are really just taken with the Appa, aesthetic, design, whatever... I'd say go for it and see for yourself. I haven't regretted buying any bikes even the two Riv's I've ended up selling.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 10:30 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

Whoops, just saw that the Bombadil is too big. Sorry. Well, in that case, I'd get rid of it. Even the best bike is no good if it doesn't fit. But I'd try to trade it for a smaller one.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd reduce by reducing overlap. I'd want a road bike, an off road bike capable of touring, and perhaps a bike that is fun to ride but that I could lock up and lose without much wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

I'd certainly keep the Bombadil and I'd be tempted to keep the Romulus since it's the fastest. I'd certainly (in your shoes) dump the Sequoia, though if it were 30 years older, I might keep it instead of the Rom. 

And why the Appaloosa? What niche will it fill, and will it do so better than the Bombadil or the Clem? (I'm not quite sure if the Clem is similar to the Ap or not.) Certainly the Bombadil will be hard to replace, and the Saluki sounds like the ideal all rounder. 

Me, I'd not drop a bike to get a new one unless there were some real advantage to the new one over the old one to be jettisoned.

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Sky Coulter <incomm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey All,

I have a bunch of bikes, with a fair bit of overlap, and yet I find myself lusting after n+1. At the same time, I don't have a lot of cash to throw toward a new bike and love the idea of reducing the number of bikes I have.  So I'm kind of inclined to sell off one or two to make more physical and mental space and to fund the pursuit of the N+1.  With that in mind I invite advice, jeers, and any other comments you might feel inclined to make in helping guide and influence my decision process. It's a wordy post and probably of limited interest, but there are pictures at least.

pictures here:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/140959259@N03/albums/72157681401817736/with/32640008764/

The N+1 I'm after is a 55cm silver appaloosa. It's quite a bit smaller in seat tube length than my other bikes, but Will told me the standover is 83.5cm and the stack and reach numbers on the geometry chart look about right for me. I'll build it up with drop bars. Will thought the 58cm would probably be a better fit, but I think the older I get the more standover clearance I'm likely to want.

In the stable currently are:

1. 60cm butterscotch Saluki. Probably my best fitting bike with a 84cm standover on 42mm parimotos (measuring closer to 38mm).  Not a bike I'm really willing to part with.  It's quite possibly the nicest bike I'll ever own and I can see riding it until I can't swing a leg over the saddle.

2. 60cm twin top tube dark green  Bombadil.  This one is probably the most likely to get moved on as the standover is a bit too tight for comfort.  It's ok on level ground, but a quick dismount on uneven terrain is a frightening proposition.  my pbh is 89cm, although generally I go by 88cm as I seem to prefer a slight size down approach with rivendells.  The standover on the bombadil with 45cm tires is ~88.5cm, which is ok for controlled dismounts, but really, feels a little too big.  My reluctance to sell it at the moment is that selling the frame alone won't get me enough for a replacement frame that fits and that if I sell it as a complete, I'll need to buy a new build kit.

3. 59cm orange Clementine. This bike won't go anywhere for the next while. It's really my baby daughter's bike, I just act as a chauffeur.

4. 61cm light blue Romulus.  I love this bike.  It feels the fastest of the bikes I own.  Unfortunately it does overlap a fair bit with the Saluki so it's a bit redundant to keep around. Currently I tell myself that it can be differentiated as my "beater" bike and ridden in crappy vancouver winter weather. But really, I'm just lying to myself there; I'd be perfectly willing to ride the saluki in crappy weather too and with the wider tires it's probably a better choice.  Really, I don't wanna sell it because I'm attached to it and I don't think it'd ever sell for as much as it's worth to me.  But I feel a little guilty holding onto it because it takes up space and doesn't offer anything the other bikes don't.

5. 2016 61cm matte black Specialized Sequoia.  I bought this a month ago to try out the allroad category from a big bike company and to try STI shifting and mechanical disk brakes.  It's alright.  I don't think I'll like it as much as my rivs and I kinda regret buying it instead of pre-ordering an appa frameset, but I wanted to try something different. I'd like to keep it for a year or so, try a couple different things with it before deciding to move it on.

So if you were in my shoes, and the Clementine and Saluki were the two bikes you intend to hold onto no matter what, what would u do?

thanks,

Sky in new west

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/qzK1kc3-0IM/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/17/2017 11:06 AM, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
> The Saluki design of 650B at all frame sizes no longer aligns to Riv's
> philosophy of matching wheel sizes to frame sizes... At one point they
> were offering to send you either AHH or Saluki decals and head badge
> on the tweener sized frames though.

I understand that is the philosophy. What I fail to see is any
advantage to it. What matters really is rotational inertia. You feel
that in the handling. And when you expand the diameter to retain a
near-constant rotational inertia you have to reduce the tire width or
find another way to reduce the weight of the wheel plus tire.
Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder, obviously (otherwise, how
could people claim that the look of today's racing bikes is attractive?)
but in my opinion any claim that a 650B wheel looks "too small" on a 60
cm frame are purely bogus; and I can't help but wonder why the people
who claim that don't also advocate a larger wheel than 622 for taller
road racers.

>
> I love how the 60cm frame can wear 42mm tires and not feel tall.

The benefit of a 650B wheel!

[stevef]

I used to have a lot of overlapping bikes in my herd and I sold off more than half.  It wasn't easy but it was rewarding.  The simplicity of having fewer bike to maintain and store is pretty great.  They were all nice bikes that I appreciated but once I decided some had to go, it was pretty clear which ones I rode more, and which ones meant more to me as a rider rather than just "this is a nice bike and I want to possess it." 

Things to consider would be which bikes you feel most overlap each other, and/or the bike you hope to add.  And which bike, if any, you feel the least attached to the experience of riding, rather than just as a nice bike worth owning.  Also keep in mind that the Specialized would probably be the easiest one to sell anywhere but, well--here.

Steve

[iamkeith]

I guess i glossed over the part about wanting to use drop bars. Given that, the smaller joe might make sense than the hunq. For some reason (based on nothing but speculation) I don't think of the joe as a drop bar bike.

For what it's worth, i'm an n+1 guy too, and the thing that has so far kept me in check is a rule about not duplicating handlebar types, unless there's a drastic difference in bike capabilities, too.

I also read too quickly over the "sequoia" part, and thought you had a classic one. No brainer to get rid of that.

I still stand by the hunquapillar suggestion though. You could even use your bomba parts (including wheels) to build it up. You just need to relinquish the drop bar notion.

Interesting how some of the comments encourage contentment, while i seem to love encouraging you to spend your money.

[Patrick Moore]

I agree with Steve about the aesthetics part, but disagree largely about the rotational inertia part, ie that wheel diameters and circumferential weights make huge differences in handling. First, handling differences can in part be adjusted for by frame design. Second, these differences are not that great in any event. I've ridden very light "twenty six inch" wheels with 360 gram rims, 70 gram tubes, and 200 gram tires measuring 24 inches in actual diameter back to back with very heavy "29er" wheels with 900 gram tires, 200 gram tubes, and 800 gram (lightweight model!) rims and an actual  wheel diameter of 29 1/2 inches -- fully 5 1/2 inches bigger. Did I feel a difference? Of course. Was it shocking? Hardly; I noticed the transition from one to another much less than that between the 130 mm Q of the small wheeled bikes and the 160+/- Q of the 29er.

Do the small wheel bikes feel twitchy? Hardly; in fact they are my benchmark for good road bike handling with wheels of any size. Did the 29ers feel ponderous? By no means; in fact, when I took them on fastish (and flat) singletrack, I was surprised at how "flickable" the Fargo and Monocog 29er were -- and this with 60 mm Big Apples and SnoCat rims. Jan may be a lot more sensitive than I am, but while I believe there is no reason, in other than tiny frame sizes, to upscale wheels with frame size, I also believe that there is no reason to stick with one overall wheel diameter for handling purposes. And I've ridden enough bikes to know good from bad handling. Different? Sure. Bad versus good? Not at all.

I did notice that my brother's very light 26er mtb was more nimble than my Fargo, but the difference was interesting rather than bothersome. I had no problem keeping up with him on our twisty, thicket-smothered bosque singletrack.

For the record, my road bikes now sport very light wheels measuring 24 3/4" in diameter, and my 29er has very light wheels (for a 29er) of 28 1/2" in diameter. Once again, for handling, frame differences are much more noticeable than wheel differences.

[Ryan Fleming]

I'd have a tough time dumping a Riv since I love all of them...but in  your situation maybe it's time to move the Bomba since the fit's not ideal. And keep an open mind for the N+1 ...I suspect it would be nice to test ride the Appaloosa. You have an elegant stable BTW

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks Ryan. Ya, I'm not completely fixated on the Appaloosa. Just a riv that I can use for touring. If it could double as a mtb and take drops, that'd be about perfect. If I had a spare 3500 I'd be trying to convince Pudge to part with his Atlantis...or I'd be happy to go w a 56cm bomba....sky

[scott]

Touring bikes suffer from the pick-up truck syndrome. Some folks buy them for the potential of hauling a lot, but the actual amount they get used for the intended purpose is not worth the expense (both trucks and bikes). Your other bikes will probably suit light touring duty. When you are ready for epic touring, get a touring machine. That said, bike lust is a real thing that is hard to dissuade. Good luck!

[Max S]

I think I can relate to your original comment about freeing up mental space, which is at a premium for me, so going N-1 offers considerable merit, IMO. Also, I recently read Mari Kondo. And if pretending to be you, I would do this:

- Find a good new home for the Bomba
- Find a new home for the newest Specialized
- Find a new home for the Rom
+ Get an Appaloosa and set up with dirt drops, fat tires, and a riser stem, fenderless, narrowest Q factor crank 2x.
+ Get spare Compass EL tires for the Saluki.
= Everything else stays the same

DONE!

Seems like this way you'd be covering 99.5% of the riding you actually do, still have a spare when a friend visits, generate a bit of cash for the bike slush fund.

Just as an aside, I did an experiment: rode my then-newly-acquired, 58cm, 650b Ebisu exclusively for 1 year. Dirt roads. Smooth roads. Some off road. It was great. I was slower off-road than I'd be on a 29er, but oh well! I then got a second, light wheelset for it, and I think it could just ride this set up 99% of the time. My only wish would be to have an identical fender-less version for off-road or very fast rides with the faster of my riding buddies. Since I'm on a 58cm frame, I could just as well ride 700c. And I'm slowly getting to a Jobstian outlook on owning multiple bikes: it's just mentally, spatially, and financially too taxing to maintain a "fleet" beyond one or two frames, plus some spare components.

- Heretically, Max in A2

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks Max, good advice if a bit hard to take.

Well, thanks for the thoughts everyone. I think the bombadil will probably end up for sale. Not sure beyond that at the moment. If I'm gonna sell any of them on the list though, I'll create a new post with more info (prices, builds, etc).

Thanks everyone. a lot of helpful points were made...sky

[Bob Lovejoy]

And thank you Sky for letting people into the thought process!  That and for showing us some very cool bikes.  I do like the way you think - and the way you choose and use your bikes.  Do let people know if you decide to go the Appaloosa route or another direction.

To great rides and adventures,

Bob Lovejoy

Galesburg, IL

[Max S]

So, how'd it all turn out?.. 

(It's the long dark teatime of the soul here in MI right now, so I'm trying really hard to not compensate for my lack of riding by purchasing bike stuff.)  

- Max

[Sky Coulter]

Hi Max,

I sold the bombadil frameset to another lister and the specialized sequoia at a pretty steep loss on craigslist.

I bought the 55cm appa and it worked out great using the stack and reach numbers to choose size. I think the appaloosa is as nice as my saluki in general, with a prettier fork in particular.

I do still prefer the saluki overall as the nicest riding bike i own, but the appaloosa’s superior clearance, load carrying capacity and braking power (v-brakes) make it the one bike i’d keep if push came to shove.

I stripped the clementine down and but on 60mm schwalbe big ones and it’s made it a lot more fun and less of a chore to take my daughter out for a quick spin around the neiborhood. I thibk it’ll get the choco moose bar eventually as i find the handlebars a bit high w the boscoes.

The romulus is pulling commuter duty on those days when i’m tired and want easier uphills. A bit of a rough ride on 30mm tires though so i’m planing to eventually put compass 35mm tires on and jury-rig fenders w splits around the brakes (which i’m changing from tektro 539s to shimano br-6500s for better clearances). I also pucked up a genourously priced sackville barsack and f-15 rack from a fellow lister to make it a bit more effective as a commuter.

And i like the appaloosa so much, and so does my wife, that she’s got a 46cm heading her way as well. We’ll be a bit dorky with matching silver frames, but i’m ok w that.

Sky in new west

[Max S]

Sky, that's a really nice Joe Appaloosa set-up! I don't see many of them set up with drop bars, perhaps due to the longer TT. But if one decides that a long seatpost is OK, and takes into account the upsloping TT... I could see it working really well to get the bars level with or a bit lower than saddle, and gaining the smoothness of long chainstays. Hmm... 

- Max 

[Clayton.sf]

sell them all, get something different, experience, enjoy the journey, life is short.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

[Sky Coulter]

Bold thoughts Clayton. But I think I’m closing in on what works for me through slow refinement. The short-lived, sti-shifting, disc-brake-having sequoia was a good lesson for me in that sense. It might be fundamentally boring, but what I like most are Rivendell bikes. I don’t really see a point in chasing too hard after anything else. Although if I’m honest, I guess I’m still a little tempted by Mike Varley’s upcoming all-road.

For now though, I’m quite content w what I have. And I’m grateful that there is a bike company like Rivendell in the world.

And I apologize for the numerous typos in my last message. I was typing quickly before giving shift handover and didn’t look at what I was typing.

Sky in new west

[RichS]

Sky,

If you can swing it, Paul centerpulls for your Romulus would give you the fender clearance you’re looking for.

Just completed a Roadeo and installed the Paul CPs. They are as nicely performing as others on the list have noted from time to time.

Regards,
Richard

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks for the suggestion Rich.  I did consider pauls, but I wanted to keep it a super easy brake setup.  Mike Varley had an article about brake clearances that I cam across ( http://blackmtncycles.com/clearance-pt-ii-road-frames/ ) and from the images in it, it looked like the shimanos ought to offer adequate clearance for 35mm tires. The limiting factor will remain the frame bridges and fork crown, I believe.  I think the only way to get fenders on as well will be to split them at the brakes/bridges. I did something like this once before and am curious to tinker around with it again.  

Really, i should just ride the romulus without fenders, but living in the metro vancouver area, well, we get quite a lot of rain.

Sky in new west