Headset and bottom bracket life expectancy

[shawn]

How many miles can one expect to get out of a typical headset and
bottom bracket?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hi Shawn -

That's a fairly broad question with a good number of variables: Fenders or Open-Wheel?, Fair-Weather or Everyday? Delayed Maintenance or Son-of-a-mechanic obsessive?

Particularly with respect to the headset, where certain companies have focused upon making "the best" and managed to gain significant use and product loyalty. 

For me, the realization came during the El Niño winters of the late 90's.  I think I burned through three "standard" type headsets that winter on my open wheeled mtb - so a month and a half each? The effect of rain and dirt put a wonderfully fine spray of grinding paste up into the headtube, and the cups and balls got pitted and scratched beyond repair.  We'd slap in larger bearings and extra grease, run neoprene "shields" on the headtube, but nothing really mattered. I got really tired of dropping the fork and pressing in another headset.  At the time, I had full shop/tool access, so it wasn't even a problem of paying for the labor (headset press - though you can make one yourself - is one of those tools I never have bought.)  After number three, I bought a Chris King, which survived that bicycle and moved to its replacement. I've continued that habit through this day, and expect the headsets to last at least as long as the frameset.

On bb's, I've always upgraded from the base model - mostly out of latent weight-weenydom.  The UN72 type bb's (as opposed to the UN53/intro level ones) keep plugging along, and I know I've got over 10K on the ones in my bikes right now. I've heard 20K pretty regularly. I've replaced many more cogs, chainrings, cables and cranks than bb's.

hope that's of some help - what type of bike are you putting these on?

- Jim

Cyclofiend / cyclo...@gmail.com / Cyclofiend.com

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I recently sold my 1983 Stumpjumper, which I rode quite a bit the last five years. The previous owner didn't ride it as much, but he did regular maintenance on the bearings. The headset was original to the bike and still felt smooth. I've noticed that some people always have crummy headsets, and others seem to never have headset issues. I have never really had headset problems on any of my bikes. Aside from the Stumpjumper, I use sealed cartridge-bearing type headsets exclusively, though seldom anything as fancy as Chris King. Unfortunately the selection of quality 1" threaded headsets that aren't Chris King is quite limited.

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, April 2, 2012 11:52:50 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

I recently sold my 1983 Stumpjumper, which I rode quite a bit the last five years. The previous owner didn't ride it as much, but he did regular maintenance on the bearings. The headset was original to the bike and still felt smooth. I've noticed that some people always have crummy headsets, and others seem to never have headset issues. I have never really had headset problems on any of my bikes. Aside from the Stumpjumper, I use sealed cartridge-bearing type headsets exclusively, though seldom anything as fancy as Chris King. Unfortunately the selection of quality 1" threaded headsets that aren't Chris King is quite limited.

 

The key with Chris King and other similar designed headsets is it uses angular contact cartridge bearings instead of the old cup and cone ball bearings or even needle bearings. The Bicycle FAQ sums it up nicely:

 

"Shimano, Chris King, Cane Creek and others, offer angular contact, full ball complement, spherically aligned cartridge bearings. The Shimano cartridge bearings have contact seals, not exposed to weather, to retain grease for life of the bearing. The races are sufficiently reentrant that they snap permanently together with sufficient preload to prevent rocking (fretting) motion perpendicular to the rotational axis. Spherical steel rings, that move as plain bearings against an aluminum housing, support the cartridge bearing to absorb, otherwise damaging, out-of-plane motion while the cartridge bearing does the steering."

 

link: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/indexed-steering.html

On Monday, April 2, 2012 8:30:12 AM UTC-5, shawn wrote:

[Allan in Portland]

My favorite head set story, and one I think shows them to be essentially jewelry for most normal geometry bikes, is the one from my former commuter. It was 20 y.o. Miyata I bought from the original owner. He didn't do anything for maintenance because he literally never road it. It still had the factory tires.

I road it hard daily commuting for a few years and after a while the headset started indexing. A little at first which got progressively worse to the point at the end it would really get my attention on a fast, winding downhill. I had done nothing to maintain it and figured it was probably time to replace it. I also wondered if I rotated it 90 degrees that would solve the indexing. Seemed like it shouldn't matter, but what the heck, I took it apart to see if it would show any signs of indentation on the races. There wasn't any. They were like brand new from all that my eye could tell. I repacked the grease put it back together surprisingly to me it was like new again. My guess is replacing the grease spun the flat parts on the balls to be out of the way.

I don't know. It seems unlikely that the balls themselves would get flat spots, maybe something else was the cause of the indexing, but that's what I experienced. Unfortunately no pictures to prove it happened. :-)

Regards,
-Allan

[Tim McNamara]

On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:30 AM, shawn wrote:
> How many miles can one expect to get out of a typical headset and
> bottom bracket?

Well, This varies by headset. The headset in my 1996 All-Rounder is the original Stronglight (A-6, I think). I've repacked it two or three times in the past 16 years. Many miles, not sure how many- 15,000-20,000 probably. I've heard of headsets that were ruined with 0 miles on them after being on the roof rack of a support car. I've got a cartridge bearing "ThreadSet" in my Ritchey road bike that is also from ca. 1996- it was in the frame when I bought it used in 1999, and has never needed more than an occasional adjustment.

BBs, I've gotten years out of the Campy Veloce BBs and still smooth as silk. And I've gotten 15+ years out of good quality cup and cone BBs (SunTour Superbe, Ritchey Logic). I used to rebuild those at least once a year and replaced the ball bearings as needed.

Tim

[Bill M.]

1995 Riv Road - still on original headset.

1983 Miyata 1000 - still on original headset.  

Can't think of when I have ever worn out a bottom bracket.  I swap parts around too often for any one to get too much wear.  The Miyata has a Nashbar sealed bearing BB from the 80's or so.  Still smooth.

I'm not a mega-mileage rider, don't tour with heavy loads, and rarely get rained on,  so I may not be typical around here.  

Bill

[James Valiensi]

I've been using Chris King headsets since 1992. Never had one wear out or go bad. I used them on road bikes, mountain bikes, and city bikes. They last and are reliable. Grant used to sell them. 

James Valiensi, PE

Northridge, CA

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[Mojo]

Headsets wear out? Not in my experience riding 'serious' bikes since 1972. I did ruin (death by pitting) a Campy Record by tightening a half turn too tight. And I change the grease in my headsets every decade or so. And I have lived in arid-semiarid climates most of my life. Headsets sit there and do there little micro-turns (granted, under load, but not like the loads BB experience) and seem to live forever on my bikes. Bottom brackets too seem to live forever. Hmmm, maybe I need to ride more!

 

Mo '200 miles last week' jo

[shawn]

Jim,
Thanks for the reply. The reason I asked was because a friend of mine
bought a Trek carbon fiber road bike last year and after 2200 miles
had to replace the headset, bottom bracket and rear cassette. My
friend acted like this was normal, but I wasn't sure since my Atlantis
has over 4,000 miles and everything is fine. I was thinking that 2200
miles was kind of too soon to have these types of issues, but I wasn't
sure if others riders were getting the same results as I was. Thanks
again for the reply.
V/R
Shawn

> Cyclofiend / cyclofi...@gmail.com / Cyclofiend.com

[Peter Pesce]

Oh! You didn't say you were (or might be) talking about those new fangled external BBs and headsets. I'm assuming that's what's on your friends carbon road bike. I've heard tell of those going bad in 500 rainy miles. I have an external BB (no idea which flavor) with only a couple hundred dry miles on it, so can't vouch for longevity.

Pete in CT

[PATRICK MOORE]

11K+ miles on the original Tange Rollerball HS on my '99 Joe Starck,
ditto for Phil bb and rear hub. Very little rain but a lot of dust, no
fenders. All feel as new.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:30 AM, shawn <shawn....@yahoo.com> wrote:
> How many miles can one expect to get out of a typical headset and
> bottom bracket?
>

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[Ablejack]

I ride a phil bb installed in '99. No problems, but that doesn't mean much as it's anecdotal. If I ever need a new on I would get an SKF. 

SKF (they are the bearing company of the world) guarantees the BB for 10,000 miles. Much longer than anyone else. 

[Phil Brown]

I have a Phil BB that I bought in the early 70s that's installed and
still going strong. I also have a set of the 3 piece hubs and they're
rolling along as well.
Phil Brown
Saluki assembly again today with another Phil BB in Oakland, Calif

On Apr 4, 8:59 am, Ablejack <ableja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I ride a phil bb installed in '99. No problems, but that doesn't mean much
> as it's anecdotal. If I ever need a new on I would get an SKF.

> *SKF* (they are the bearing company of the world) guarantees the BB for

[E.B.]

SKF warranty is 10yrs/100,000km ..."whichever comes first"

I don't know how they'd determine when the mileage came first, though.

On Apr 4, 8:59 am, Ablejack <ableja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I ride a phil bb installed in '99. No problems, but that doesn't mean much
> as it's anecdotal. If I ever need a new on I would get an SKF.

> *SKF* (they are the bearing company of the world) guarantees the BB for

[Daniel M]

Is this thread still active?  I'll post my headset experience:  I bought a new Sam Hillborne from Rivendell, assembled by them, in April of 2010.  Within one month, the day after completing the Davis Double, I noticed that my headset was pitted, with a noticeable notch when the bars were turned straight ahead, thus requiring extra effort to turn away from straight ahead and spoiling the handling.  Rivendell replaced the headset for me at no cost.

Within one year, after a month-long tour from the Bay Area to Oregon and back, the headset had pitted again.  I didn't ask Riv to replace it for free since this one had lasted longer, and instead bought a Cane Creek headset from them and had a local mechanic (Stefan at Cycle Monkey in Albany, CA) install it for me.  When he pulled the old headset out he showed me the pitting marks on the lower race.  His theory what that because the "bearing keeper ring" (I have no idea what this is actually called but it holds the bearings in place while you are assembling the headset) was left in the headset when it was installed (he gave me the impression he would have removed it had he done the installation), that the same points on the bearings always contacted the exact same points on the race as the headset turned, accelerating wear.  He felt that without the "keeper" in place they would have rolled more "randomly", slowing wear.

Bottom line: since having the Cane Creek headset installed, I have had no problems.  Note that I am somewhat of an abusive user; this bike gets ridden every day, is occasionally hopped up and (as gently as possible) ridden off curbs, often with a bag in the front basket, and it gets ridden on rough trails and fire roads from time to time.  I think a lot of owners might put less wear on their bikes in one lifetime than I have each year.

Daniel

On Monday, April 2, 2012 6:30:12 AM UTC-7, shawn wrote:

[Brewster Fong]

I don't know what headsets you used before, but the Cane Creek hs has angular contact cartridge bearings like Shimano, Chris King and others. I know there are others who have standard cup and cone or needle bearing hs that they claim last 50K miles or more, but the cartridge bearing hs basically puts an end to pitted hs. For more, here's what  the Bicycle FAQ says about it and why its superior to the other types of hs:

 

"Shimano, Chris King, Cane Creek and others, offer angular contact, full ball complement, spherically aligned cartridge bearings. The Shimano cartridge bearings have contact seals, not exposed to weather, to retain grease for life of the bearing. The races are sufficiently reentrant that they snap permanently together with sufficient preload to prevent rocking (fretting) motion perpendicular to the rotational axis. Spherical steel rings, that move as plain bearings against an aluminum housing, support the cartridge bearing to absorb, otherwise damaging, out-of-plane motion while the cartridge bearing does the steering."

 

link: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/indexed-steering.html

 

Good Luck!

[EricP]

The stock headset on the early Sam Hillbornes was possibly not the best sealed.  Mine started leaking grease out the lower bearing after a couple of months.  While never causing any problems or pitting, after about a year had my LBS replace it with a Shimano 105.  It's not totally silver, but the quality seems to be such it might be the last one the bike will need.

FWIW, I've always had fenders on my Hillborne and did not ride it overmuch in rain.  And again, the stock headset was not bad in any way.  More than anything just got tired of wiping grease off the fork crown and fender.

 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN