Roadini and "The Curse of the Triple"

[Brian David Lewis-Jones]

I was curious if anybody was willing to share info on their 3x Roadini setup. What are you running? How's the shifting?

Kind of a leading question I suppose - but I've been having trouble running a 44 34 24 with pretty much every FD I've tried (including IRD's Alpine D, Sora, and an old Deore 9 speed). 

Each FD clears the chainstay only by a whisker - and shifting is always rough between the middle and big ring - to the point where there is extreme caution needed so as not to throw the chain onto the crank arm. Best I can guess, it's due to some combination of chainstay angle, and most 3x FDs preferring 1. a larger big ring, and 2. a large jump between middle and big ring.

I felt particularly dismayed after I SOS'd to a LBS and they said "We don't deal much with vintage stuff." Oh, blessed youth...

Anyway, curious to hear about other peoples' setup and how it's working for you!

-Brian in MPLS

[Brian Lewis-Jones]

Just replying to my own thread to start 🙃

When talking with Riv, they mentioned that bottom brackets for shipped framesets would be 110 - for a 45mm chainline. 

Fast forward, I didn’t think to measure it myself. But another thread recently had me second guessing… Sure enough, measured, and voila, 113!

So that answers a lot of my own questions on rough shifting! Next up, I’m trying my hand at a 47.5 Altus triple FD and expect it to be smooth as butter. And if not… well, I’ll certainly let ya know!

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[Brady Smith]

I had mine set up with a Microshift R539 9-speed FD for a bit. Worked great, but I eventually swapped to a spare 48-34 crankset I had lying around, just for additional simplicity. 

[Garth]

A good ol' road double FD shits triples like that just fine. By good 'ol I mean those designed for 9-speeds and less.

[Charles Staunton]

I’ve had pretty good luck using the 

Shimano Claris FD-R2030 Front Derailleur (3 x 8 Speed) (28.6/31.8/34.9mm) (Down Swing) (Bottom Pull)

Especially with the down tube friction shifter.

I’m running it on a silver cranks double and a spa cycle triple (46,36,26}

Thank you

-Charlie 

Virgil Normal

4157 Normal Ave.

Los Angeles, Ca 90029

(323)741-8489

he...@virgilnormal.com

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[Brian Campbell]

Brian,

Sorry to hear things are not shifting as smoothly as you would have hoped. Can you share more info on the set-up?

crankset, bottom bracket length,  number of speed cassette, chain type front & rear derailer, etc.

It helps with painting the entire picture.

Thanks! 

 Brian in Berwyn

[Brian Lewis-Jones]

Oh yeah for sure. Although I do think this is a matter of assumptions vs observations:

Silver triple, 9 speed cassette

113 BB (previously presumed to be 110)

IRD alpine D

To summarize, I think a communication error had me banking on a 45mm chainline. 

And that said, I learned a lot about road triple FDs, and what will fit well vs what won’t. 

More to come… hopefully this week!

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[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 2:02:34 PM UTC-7 Brian David Lewis-Jones wrote:

... When talking with Riv, they mentioned that bottom brackets for shipped framesets would be 110 - for a 45mm chainline. 

Fast forward, I didn’t think to measure it myself. But another thread recently had me second guessing… Sure enough, measured, and voila, 113!

So that answers a lot of my own questions on rough shifting! Next up, I’m trying my hand at a 47.5 Altus triple FD and expect it to be smooth as butter. And if not… well, I’ll certainly let ya know!

If a 110 spindle yields a 45mm chainline, then all other things being equal,  a 113 spindle would give you 46.5 - not 48.  Maybe you realized that, but it wasn't clear from your post.  I can't imagine that this is your issue, as long as you're within the range provided by the limit screws.  The longer chainstays on Rivendell bikes are more forgiving in terms of chainline variations.  It doesn't need to be perfectly in spec because the chain isn't being forced to flex as much between disparate chainring/ cog combinations.

On the other hand and if I'm visualizing correctly - you might be better off using any derailleur in the bottom/inner part  of it's allowable swing range, because the arc will be less "vertical" between adjacent chainrings.  But I guess it depends on the geometry of the specific derailleur - whether it's top swing, bottom swing, how long the arms are, etc.  If you're having trouble because the angle between the seat tube and chainstays is non-typical, and the chainstay is keeping you from mounting it as low as you like, then you're looking for something that moves side-to-side with the least amount of up-and-down.  Some pics could help us armchair a diagnosis a lot easier.

Other random thoughts:

Shimano made some "side-swing" derailleurs that had almost no vertical movement, that I've used for this precise chainstay clearance problem, but it was much more of an extreme combination of factors than you're dealing with.  Also, the cable routing is wonky.

A couple of years ago, Bill did a detailed post about shortening the shift cage so it would have more chainstay clearance.  Maybe he'll chime in or you can find that thread.

Lastly, Before spending a lot of time and money,  you might want to measure the actual chainline yourself, to know what you're working with:  measure from the center of the middle chainring to the face of the seat tube, and add half the seat tube diameter.

 

[Laing Conley]

Sounds like you are assuming that bottom brackets are symmetrical, side to side. They are not necessarily symmetrical. Some sizes are, some sizes are not, and not all brands are the same, size for size. The only real way to figure out what your chain line is, is to measure it.  

I addition, the type of gearing you are running has an impact. I am working on getting my half step plus granny Sugino triple working. It was a 24-34-44 with an Alpina D before I switched. I was quite surprised to find that the existing bottom bracket was a 107. I am about to try a 70s Campagnolo Nuovo Record front derailleur on the half step gearing.  Frame is a Bombadil, 3x7 gearing. 

Laing

Delray Beach FL

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[Garth]

I post this for reference, do save or download it for reference. It applies to the most cartridges like Shimano and Tange and most others, save SKF, Phil Wood/

Mathematically, the difference between the 113 and 110 is 2.5mm on the driveside. Given a certain amount of leeway in measuring, easily could be read as 48mm chainline.

I saved it as both a photo file and pdf so choose whichever.

Also note, that with cartridge BB's I use DS spacers all the time. I have them from .5mm to 2mm. This allows me to use a shorter length if applicable.

Still, even a road triple FD should shift a 47-48mm chainline easily. I'd check the cable install, ends and tension. Even my road FD's can easily do that chainline.

[Eric Marth]

Brian — Do you have any pictures to share? If the FD is so low as to be touching the chainstay and you're having trouble shifting from the middle ring to the large ring, I wonder if that derailer is mounted a bit low. In the past I've had to install FDs with a larger gap between the top of the outer chainring and the lower edge of the derailer cage than I thought appropriate. Looked wrong but it needed to be higher to shift cleanly. After this was fine-tuned I didn't have issues dropping the chain

[Garth]

I forgot also that FD's don't need to be in spec in regards to the distance from FD to big chainring. It can be quite a bit higher and work just fine.

[chrisd]

I'm running a Ritchey Logic triple on a Rambouillet with a 42 large CR and went through several FDs and this one works great and

clears the chainstay

https://www.wheelsinmotion.us/product/shimano-cx70-front-derailleur-207107-1.htm

On Tuesday, February 4, 2025 at 2:02:34 PM UTC-7 Brian David Lewis-Jones wrote:

[Tony Lockhart]

[Tony Lockhart]

@Brain 

Drivetrain - Silver 2 triple, 105 FD, Shimano HG cassette (11-32 or 34), Claris RD, Silver Shifters, BB that came with the frame

Impressions - super crisp shifting, no issues, FD looks pretty close to the chain stay however I haven't had any problems. As Keith suggested, all is well just so long as within limits of the FD screws. Every now and then I get a bit of ghost shifting, but it doesn't really bug me.

On Friday, February 7, 2025 at 7:11:11 PM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote: