Racks/fenders, an aesthetics question

[Joe Bernard]

I need opinions on this matter because I've wrestled with it enough to think I might be bonkers loony and need to get out more (probably and yes): 

This is my Riv Custom (pictured below) and it's about to get a Nitto RBW51 rear rack to support a gray Medium Saddlesack. To go along with it I'm thinking of adding fenders even though I don't particularly need them, and find them to be a bit of a fussy headache. Here's my dilemma: I think racks need fenders. Like it looks wrong if you just have a bag-support rack and a bag over a bare tire. I know this is a thing with gravel/camping bikes now, but my brain is stuck on the 'full touring bike' look of the olden days which always had racks and fenders together. So whaddyathink? Do they need to go together to look "right", or is my drop-toptube low-kicker Rivendell already non-traditional enough that it doesn't freaking matter? 

Joe "he needs to get out more" Bernard

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I typically have my bikes with racks  set up without fenders. The look doesn’t bother me at all. I can’t stand a rack that isn’t level though...

I do live in SoCal so fenders aren’t typically necessary.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2020, at 10:05 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I need opinions on this matter because I've wrestled with it enough to think I might be bonkers loony and need to get out more (probably and yes): 

This is my Riv Custom (pictured below) and it's about to get a Nitto RBW51 rear rack to support a gray Medium Saddlesack. To go along with it I'm thinking of adding fenders even though I don't particularly need them, and find them to be a bit of a fussy headache. Here's my dilemma: I think racks need fenders. Like it looks wrong if you just have a bag-support rack and a bag over a bare tire. I know this is a thing with gravel/camping bikes now, but my brain is stuck on the 'full touring bike' look of the olden days which always had racks and fenders together. So whaddyathink? Do they need to go together to look "right", or is my drop-toptube low-kicker Rivendell already non-traditional enough that it doesn't freaking matter? 

Joe "he needs to get out more" Bernard

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[Patrick Moore]

I think you need to get out more. Still, I can sympathize, having sweated over similar trivial but obsessive questions myself.

My opinion is no, racks sans fenders don't look odd.

The 2003 Curt in earlier appearances: racks no fenders, no racks or fenders, racks plus fenders, rear shortened, and rack with flowers, a still life. I think that the bike looks fine in each mode, apart from the blackwall tires.

Note that, for my own personal aesthetic opinion, tanwell tires look better on bikes like this than blackwall tires.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Mike Godwin]

Patrick, 

Photo with new Honjos, did you install a rear fender on the front? Or is that the normal front fender length for Honjo fenders?

Mike SLO CA

[Brett Callahan]

Joe, I can certainly appreciate spending too much time worrying about aesthetics when you should be riding. Plus, this year in particular, I hope we all "need to get out more." I think you have a great looking bike that doesn't fall into a easily classified niche and the attendant (perceived) aesthetic roles that come with that kind of classification. It doesn't call out to me for fenders, and I don't think the rack is going to change that. Like Robert says, getting the rack level is far more important! 

IMHO, certain bikes DO need fenders (regardless of racks or other accessories.) For example, a 650b rando bike looks absolutely naked without metal fenders to my mind. Like...they should be tagged NSFW on Instagram. But I also need to get out more. 

Brett, in, in Portland. 

[Ben Mihovk]

I'd never set up my bike based on what other people think looks right. :) 

But...since you asked, I think the kinds of bikes I want to ride always look better with fenders. 

Ben

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[Jason Fuller]

I am firmly in the "yes, you should also install fenders!" camp. I think they'd be a great aesthetic addition to your custom, but also, I value fenders for more than just rain protection: the keep whatever you may run over from being flung towards you, ie animal poop. 

I imagine some smooth 62's from Simworks / Honjo would look great and fit the tires nicely

[Jeffrey Arita]

Joe,

VERY nice bike!

My opinion:  I appreciate in most cases what a bicycle looks like, but being of the engineering mindset I typically go with 'if it is desperately needed, then do it.'  Thus, if you cycle in rainy weather then by all means install mudguards.  If your weather happens to be mostly dry then I would probably forego them.

I have installed my fair share of mudguards on bicycles as we've cycled many different places (rainy places, normal afternoon thundershowers, etc.).  I definitely agree that patience is required.

Either way, you have a fantastic ride - enjoy it!

Best regards,

Jeff

Claremont, CA

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 10:05:22 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

Mike: First, the fenders shown may have been VOs, not Honjos, though I did once install Honjos. But to your question: That was a rear cut down to ease adjustment and installation of the rear wheel in the long dropouts. Despite the brake bridge being raised, the fender was still too close.

Contrast with the Matthews replacement designed for fenders, wheel centering with commonly used cogs, and 42 mm tires, attached.

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[Patrick Moore]

Mike: I see that I misread your question. In the photo of the 2003 Riv, the front fender is one designed for the front. 

[Jack Barnes]

Patrick, what rear rack are you using on the 2003 Curt? Looks like Nitto but not a model I've seen.

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 8:41:19 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

[Esteban]

Fenders always offer a more finished look. They can also be removed for dirt stuff... although I must admit that I almost never remove mine. 

Esteban

San Diego, Calif.

[Joe Bernard]

See I agree with you and Jason, and I also agree when someone has the opposing view on this topic. I'm ridiculous! 🤪

[Jay Lonner]

I absolutely would not run fenders if I didn’t live in a rainy climate. Aesthetics is part of it - I like the more muscular look of an unfendered bike (bikepacking rigs representing an extreme example). Fenders also limit tire size, can interfere with brake straddle cables, and in muddy conditions can get jammed up pretty quickly (a few years ago we rode the Canal du Midi after a wet spring and spent a *lot* of time prying “la boue” from under the fenders). While it hasn’t happened to me, fenders have the potential to fail catastrophically if a stay breaks and gets caught in the spokes at speed. Plus there’s the rattles, potentially finicky installation, the up-front expense, etc... Given my local climate I’ve come to regard them as a necessary evil, but still evil.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Dec 15, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Esteban <prot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fenders always offer a more finished look. They can also be removed for dirt stuff... although I must admit that I almost never remove mine. 

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[Jay Lonner]

A mud-packed fender on the Canal du Midi - this was a constant problem!

Sent from my Atari 400

On Dec 15, 2020, at 12:24 PM, Jay Lonner <jay.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

I absolutely would not run fenders if I didn’t live in a rainy climate. Aesthetics is part of it - I like the more muscular look of an unfendered bike (bikepacking rigs representing an extreme example). Fenders also limit tire size, can interfere with brake straddle cables, and in muddy conditions can get jammed up pretty quickly (a few years ago we rode the Canal du Midi after a wet spring and spent a *lot* of time prying “la boue” from under the fenders). While it hasn’t happened to me, fenders have the potential to fail catastrophically if a stay breaks and gets caught in the spokes at speed. Plus there’s the rattles, potentially finicky installation, the up-front expense, etc... Given my local climate I’ve come to regard them as a necessary evil, but still evil.

[Joe Bernard]

That is definitely not good. I don't ride in mud but I see your point! 😳

[Jason Fuller]

Brake clearance is a good point since you have V-brakes. Fenders are a safety feature for canti's since if your cable snaps the straddle cable can't drop onto the tire and catch on the knobs.  But they do pose potential risks as mentioned - stay into the spoke seems unlikely to me, since they tend to swing outwards if they come un-done, but if a stick finds its way between the tire and fender you've got a recipe for a bent fork and trip over the handlebars!  Rare but happens. I'm actually waiting on some PDW fender stays that have a break-away design for the Bombadil, since it's the bike this is most likely to occur on. 

[Joe Bernard]

Indeed I forgot about the v-brake situation, which would be a challenge with these big tires and the fenders they require. Question answered! I have the bag now (thanks Leah!) and the rack on the way (thanks Jamison!) so they're going on and then I'll ride a while and probably decide it's fine just like that. Or change my mind and buy fancy fenders. Could go either way 😬

Joe "this, but on the other hand that" Bernard

[EricP]

Used to be very much in the camp of fenders with rack. Even if the bike didn't really want fenders (i.e. Surly Ogre). That changed this summer. Was tired of always having to adjust the rear fender on the Hillborne with new tires and having problems with the long reach sidepull brake on the front. Also in the last couple of years just realized I rarely ride in the rain anymore. So, off came the fenders on the Hillborne. Definitely looks different and can now run slightly larger tires, which was the other goal.

The Clem does not have fenders and no intention of installing them. Am hoping to get larger tires also, and it's just too much trouble to get everything dialed in to the point I want. 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[Garth]

Your bike looks great as-is Joe.

I don't find fenders especially appealing myself. Neither in looks or dead rattling weight, let alone setting them up.

I'd rather see the whole voluminous shape of the tire..... visible tires "look cool" . 

It's like putting sauce on a really good grilled steak....oh God  W H Y ? Leave it alone as-is !

I don't recall ever seeing touring bikes or any bikes with fenders where I grew up in Minnesota.

Just the facts .... Joe. (Old time Dragnet reference)

[Patrick Moore]

It was a custom.

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