New Roadini Clearance and Brake Reach

[Michael Doleman]

In a previous conversation I promised to post my findings on actual brake reach needs for the new Roadini frames. Specifically, I had been speculating that the Dia-Compe/Gran-Compe model GC610 center-pull could work, despite having only 61 of the specified-as-required 63 millimeters of reach.

My partner just received her new 50cm model, and I've conducted some initial studies. Findings are interesting, the main one being that there seems to be a rather huge difference between reach needed for the frame versus the fork. For the fork, the GC610 very easily works, with plenty to spare.

On the frame itself, it's a different matter. The brake shoe is very close to contacting the (35mm) tire.

Some might argue that it could work, but don't include me in that set -- too close for comfort. 

So I'll be installing the GC700 model which gives another 9mm of reach and is a very nice brake as well.

Side note: the fit of the rear wheel axle into the dropout was really tight. At first I didn't have the wheel set into it properly and it appeared that the reach was even greater. Make sure you get the wheel properly seated into the dropout -- with the paint, it's quite tight.

I tried to add photos to this message but was told the post was too long with them.

[Piaw Na]

Is there something wrong with using GC700 on both front and rear?

[lconley]

In the old days, different size brakes from and rear was normal, not sure exactly why - may have had something to do with horizontal dropouts. Schwinn Paramounts came with Weinmann centerpulls - 610 front, 750 rear. I have the same size combo on my Rivendell Mystery Bike and one of my Paramounts. Nothing wrong with 700/750 on both ends if they fit, but if the the shorter brake fits, it looks better and is lighter. If lighter does not compromise function - I always go with lighter, especially if it looks better. Note the quick release roller straddle cable carriers:

Laing

[RichS]

Hello Laing,

The QR straddle cable adjusters are a new one for me. After some quick research it appears these are a thing of the past. 

How unfortunate; what a useful design. 

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Michael Doleman]

Sorry if I caused any confusion, my post was supposed to be more about whether the GC610 brake model would work on the new Roadini models. I only intended to mention the reach differential between frame/fork as a "by the way" thing. I realize it's a thing on many other bikes -- I've worked on lots of other framesets where the difference is even more pronounced (and I've never been sure the cause of it). To answer the first response, I didn't intend to imply there was anything at all wrong with putting the GC700 brake both front and back (which is what I'll do).

There had been a much earlier thread wherein several people were concerned about the braking power of long-reach caliper style brakes, in particular the Tektro side-pull models. So I'd mentioned I would test the GC610 when my partner received her new Roadini. It was just interesting to me that it works perfectly well up front but not back. No big deal, the GC700 is effectively the same brake; in some respects maybe even better.

[lconley]

I got them off of eBay a few years ago. Just save your search and eBay will keep looking for them 24/7. That is where I get my Brooks B68 saddles, Vetta boxes and Nigel Smythe bags. Getting fewer hits lately, but takes no effort and costs nothing. Just have to go through the false hits - Brooks B68 turns up baseball cards and Vetta turns up sneakers and watches, but you can turn the automatic emails off and just check manually, but reasonably priced B68s go quickly.

Laing

[R Shannon]

Laing, thank you for the info. I could sure use those. Beats deflating my tire when I want to remove a wheel

Your mystery bike looks like a comfy rider. Love the crank too!

- Rich

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[Patch T]

Thanks Michael - I was eagerly waiting for these results. Are you running GC700 front and rear, or keeping the 610 up front?

Patch in NYC

[Michael Doleman]

My plan is to use the GC700 front and rear, for the sake of consistent look and convenience (the 610 has threaded pad mounting, while the 700 has unthreaded posts). Also I'd just prefer to keep sets together.

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[Will M]

Michael: Thanks for starting this thread -- very helpful. 

A related question: for the current crop of new Roadini's, is anyone running the Paul Racers (not the "M") and what max fender are you using on the Roadini with the Racer?   (Would like to run a 50mm VO snakeskin with RH 38mm tires.)

Thanks,

Will M

NYC

[Michael Doleman]

Despite the huge price, I am considering getting some Paul Racers for my partner's Roadini. While the GC700 pair has been serving well enough, she does report that controlling speed on steeper descents requires a bit of concerted effort. Not so bad that it actually "needs" fixing, but for longer term it's worth thinking about. I don't know if the Racers would definitely perform all that much better, but in looking at the design I think they very well might -- I'm guessing there would be less flex with the way the arms are designed. At almost 400 bucks for a set of the polished finish, though -- wow, that's a serious commitment. I guess that's what you pay for quality MUSA parts.

Part of the reason I'm using the GC700, though, is to be able to mount one of the small Ene Ciclo front racks which is specifically designed around the bolts of the GC610 & 700. I'd have to come-up with a different rack & mounting configuration (I think) if we decide to go with the Racers. I guess there's always p-clips :-/  Which leads to another point about the Roadini -- weird (to me) that Rivdendell touts the utility of racks on any given bike, but then fails to include fork mounts on the Roadini. I mean, not a huge-huge issue, but it would sure have been nice. For the little mini Berthoud bag my partner uses on the Roadini, I think I could likely get away with just hanging it from a decaleur (somehow), so perhaps that's the way to go.

Tire/fender-wise, right now we have Rene Herse 35mm tires and SimWorks/Honjo smooth/51mm fenders. That works reasonably well, with some minor fit-up headaches. I don't know that a 38 would fit comfortably with those fenders very well, and I think they are likely about the same as the VO 50mm. I think they'd rub somewhere unless kept in perfect alignment at all times. On my Hillborne, I like to run 38mm tires and I have the SimWork/Honjo smooth/62mm fenders. They fit with lots of room to spare, for the tire, but I did have to dimple them for clearance at the fork blades and chain stays. I suspect the same would be true of the Roadini.

[Will M]

@Michael: I don't have experience with the Ene Ciclo front carrier, but it seems an elegant solution.  I assume the Riv/Nitto Mark's rack would also be an option with the Racers (it performed the job just fine with the caliper brakes on my Riv Ram).  Agree with your partner about the "concerted effort" of the GC700 (well said). I was never able to get the GC610s on my VO dialed in in a way that gave the confidence of a linear-pull brake... or my old Ultegra sidepulls. Local bike shop was unsuccessful too.  Good points about fenders -- I guess there's only so much room on a Roadini.  There were some comments on an old Quickbeam thread where some posited that one really wants fenders 10mm wider than the tires to avoid the small finicky rubbing problems.  I note the SKS P50 claims 45mm max tire -- which I may try as the SKS doesn't have certain nuts and bolt heads inside the fenders like the VOs.  Cheers.  --Will