Velocity Quill experiences?

[tc]

I now have a 62 MIT Atlantis frame.  I'm gonna order a new Rich-built wheelset for it.  Velocity Quill?  Cliffhanger?  

I'm leaning toward Quill because they fit a wider range of tires, esp. narrower ones in case I want to go crazy and fender it.  Also, Quills are lighter by a pound, seem to be strong enough (I'm not gonna tour with heavy loads).  Jan's article, "Myth 18: Wide Tires Need Wide Rims" started me on this path.  A chart in that article says a 21mm inside width (what the Quill has) should be able to handle a 64mm ((!) tire ... though Velocity recommends up to 47...which seems very conservative to me.  I'm running Dyads and 2.1 Nano's on my Toyo Atlantis...super combination.  

I won't be putting a 64 tire on a Quill, but will think strongly about the 55 Antelope Hills.  Also have some 29x2 G-One Speeds to consider.

Anyone have any experience with Quills?

Thanks,

Tom

[Andrew Turner]

I've got a 650b wheelset built by Analog that uses quill rims. They are fantastic rims and incredibly stiff. The first rims that I could actually feel a difference in especially when climbing out of the saddle. And you're right! They are very wide and can handle whatever your riv frame could fit. The only downside to them is the price. They're also wicked light so I wouldn't expect them to last as long as the other Velocity rims but that's performance for you. Just keep those pads clean. 

[Tim Bantham]

I love Velocity rims and own both models you mentioned. Weight was never a factor in my choice since all of my Rivs are already heavy. A few ounces won't make a difference for me. I have an Appaloosa that I use for extended tours and overnight camping trips, a Sam Hillborne that is my roadish bike and a Clem H that is yet to be built. I have Quills on the Sam and Cliffhangers for the Joe. Once the Clem is finished it will have Cliffhangers.  

I am a tubeless convert and find that both rims set up very well for tubeless. I also believe in going with the widest rim that makes sense. For the Joe my goal was to have sturdy rims that could withstand the additional weight that I intended to carry and the occasional off road use. I want to ride the widest tire I can on this bike and still fit fenders. For me this is a 48mm tire. The Cliffhangers are perfect for this bike.. 

The Quills are on the Sam. The widest tire I plan on using with this bike is a 38mm. Mine is the sidepull version of the Sam and I am running Paul Racers. I have tried as wide as 40mm but I find that a 38mm is what I prefer the most. The Quills are perfect for my Sam. They are still pretty wide and make for a very sturdy wheel that I am comfortable riding both on pavement and dirt. 

For my Clem I am building it up as a analog mountain bike. For this application, at least as far as I am concerned, the only choice is the Cliffhanger. I have a pair that I will build up over the next couple of weeks. When they are done I am going to run a 2.25 knobbie tread and want the wide rim to maximize the amount of tread that makes contact with the ground.  

FWIW I would recommend the Cliffhanger for your Atlantis. 

[Tony McG]

I have Velocity Quill on my Toyo Atlantis with 700x50 Soma Cazadero tires; the rims are awesome, but the tire/frame clearance it tight. I chose the Quill over the A23 because they were tubeless compatible and their wider inside width.  Our Salsa Powderkeg tandem has a Cliffhanger with dynamo on the front, and I will replace the Stan's rim on the back with a Cliffhanger as soon as I decide which hub I want to use. I'm leaning towards Hadley.

I'm not a weight weenie, but I can't imagine a better place to increase bicycle performance (besides the human motor) than wheels/tires.

[Adam Leibow]

I am using the quill rims on my 2018 canti sam. the rims are great looking and i dont worry about them ever. the wheelset rides wonderfully. would recommend but probably wouldnt exceed a 48mm tire on it. in my eyes this is a slightly beefed road rim.  

[tc]

Thanks to those who replied! The height of the Wuill maybe be a negative factor; have to check. All else seems great.

Tom

[tc]

Anyone tried the relatively new $85 VO Voyager rim?  I'm not familiar with the quality of VO rims in general.  This rim hits the gap between Atlas and Cliffhanger.  Comes in 26", 650b, 700c, for 38mm to 2.4" (61mm) tire, 638g (700c) and 597g (650b), stainless eyelets, tubeless compatible, rim or disc brake.

The Quill is much more expensive -- yet is 1/3 lb lighter (insignificantly so for me).

The Atlas is very slightly more expense, but not tubeless compatible (insignificant for me, so far), and can't fit as wide a tire.

The Cliffhanger gives up a little on the narrow tire size range, but can take a slightly wider tire, is insignificantly heavier, and very slightly more expensive.

More info:

VO:  https://velo-orange.com/collections/rims/products/voyager-rim

Bike Rumor:  https://bikerumor.com/2019/06/25/velo-orange-voyager-builds-classic-bike-looks-on-wide-tubeless-gravel-trail-rims/

Tom

[Andrew Turner]

I haven't had experience with that specific VO rim but have used their rims in the past. They're not light but they're definitely strong. Highly recommend especially for the price. 

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[tc]

I'm no wheel builder, but it's interesting that VO recommended spoke tension for the Voyager of 110 kgf, and not to exceed 115.  I'm guessing there's no universal "never go below, or above" a certain tension, and that different rims will spec different tensions.  But does anyone 'in the know' (Peter?) have an opinion as to whether a rim that spec's 115kgf or lower is in any way lesser quality?

Probably much ado about nothing, but reading this sentence, "High quality wheels generally have drive side rear spoke tension anywhere from 130 kgf on up to 155 kgf." in this article made me wonder.

Tom

[Joey Robinson]

I recently built up/bought new wheels for my Surly Ogre using the Voyager rims. Front is a SP PD-8, Voyager rim, and Sapim spokes. I built this wheel myself and it went really well. Only my second wheel build but it hasn't fallen apart yet. The rim was great but it came with a few metal shavings inside that were a bit tough to shake out. The rear wheel is the pre-built disc Voyager wheel that VO sells. I went with this combination because I'm currently running cantis on my Ogre but will probably switch to disc brakes in half a decade or so.

I also considered Cliffhangers seriously but ended up going with the Voyagers so I could buy the matching VO rear wheel, which sells for less than the sum MSRP of its parts, and saved me from having to build another wheel. I also like how you can take the freehub off that rear hub without tools.

The tires are 29x2.2 Vee Tire Co. Rail Trackers set up tubeless. The width seems to be a good fit for the rim and the frame. The tubeless install was really easy with a compressor and WTB tubeless tape & valves and after the initial sealing process I haven't had any problems. I also ran them tubed for a bit before that and it was still really easy to install the tires with tubes, so don't worry about that.

The polish is beautiful. I love the way the sun glints off the rims. I did experience some squealing with my kool stop pads at first, which I assumed was a combination of the non-machined sidewall and the polish. I scuffed the brake tracks up with sandpaper and the squealing went away.

I also really like the tall brake track on these rims. Easy to adjust even large brake pads to hit the rim square on without being dangerously close to the tire or the spokes.

Ogre photo with the shiny new wheels is attached.

[tc]

Joey, thanks for your insight is on the Quill. I haven’t built a wheelset yet — but that’s on my list to learn and have fun with some day. That’s a nice Ogre....brings back memories of mine, shod with Thunderburts; with a Jones bar it was quite a versatile bike.

Tom

[Jeffrey Arita]

Tom,

Your inquiry is timely.  I recently bought a BMC Monster Cross (frame and fork).  I was originally planning on installing a set of wheels (Velocity A23 rims) I already had to put on the new bike.  Wanting to go fairly wide-tires on the Monster Cross, I was limited in tire width on the A23's.  I actually asked Velocity if their Quill rims really made that much difference (internal width wise).  They responded (naturally) that it does make a huge difference....

Flash-foward to last night.  I finally finished both wheels and the Monster Cross is 95% ready to ride.  It has brand new Quill rims with re-purposed hubs (SON28, White Industries Daisy).  I was able to buy from WI a NDS spacer to convert it from 145mm to 130mm spacing.  Tires are Panaracer GravelKing slicks (700x38), tubeless.  The wheels came together really, really well.  My short jaunt last night was really good and once I have some mileage on them I can report back...

BTW: I finally purchased a wheel tension tool (Park Tool, TM-1).  I realize the tool is fairly decent and not the best out there BUT Park's "wheel tension app" makes this (to me) an almost indispensable tool.  One is able to quantify their work and to give a lot of confidence in their build(s).  I've been assembling wheels since 2016 without using a tool.  Most (maybe all) rim manufacturers provide maximum tension figures.  With the tool I am now able to approach that figure.

I spent quite a bit of time checking all of my other wheel builds and found the typical neighboring and opposing spokes "not sharing the load."  A fairly well-balanced wheel can now be realized.  I cannot hear well anymore, so this tool now does for me what my hearing cannot!

Good luck!

Jeff  

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 6:50:04 PM UTC-8, tc wrote: