Randonneuring Bike

[Dick Combs]

Looking for opinions/thoughts on the best Riv for Brevets, 200-400K rides. Looking for current models as well as older models. Thanks

[Eric Norris]

Dick:

People ride brevets and randonnees on every kind of bike, including this:

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/back-pedalling-onion-man-attempts-paris-brest-paris/ 

You just need a comfortable, reliable bike with a lighting system and, depending on local conditions, fenders for wet weather. 

Depending on preferences, riders have found that virtually any kind of bike meets those criteria. Look at the bikes ridden on PBP, and you’ll see everything from lugged steel to carbon fiber, and from traditional bikes to recumbents to stand-on Eliptigos. 

I’ve done PBP on a fixed-gear Quickbeam and several other bikes, including a purpose-built randonneuse from a French constructeur. It’s more fun with multiple gears.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

On Aug 18, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Dick Combs <rlc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looking for opinions/thoughts on the best Riv for Brevets, 200-400K rides. Looking for current models as well as older models. Thanks

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[JohnS]

Hello Dick,

Sorry, no experience with riding a Riv for a brevet, but last year I did ride a 200K on a Crust Lighting Bolt Canti without any issues. Very comfortable with RH Babyshoe Pass tires. Highly recommend it.

JohnS

[Wesley]

Hi Dick,

I've ben thinking about this myself. I believe the most important consideration will be your ability to endure 24 hours in the saddle of your bike. The pace for finishing a brevet within the time limit is not so fast (8.25 mph), so any bike can get you there. As long as your bike puts the seat, pedals, and handlebars into a comfortable configuration, you'll have a good base. Then you can figure out what bars, tires, pedals, and saddle will suit your preferred balance of speed and comfort.

-W

[Eric Norris]

Agree 100%. If you can’t sit in the saddle all day long, you won’t be successful. Comfort trumps pretty much everything else.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
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[Jeffrey Arita]

Hi Dick,

I will chime in here: I rode a 400k brevet in April on a (new to me) Rambouillet.  I purchased it from a list member here in 2021 and it rides well (vs. my other brevet bike).  I did use a Brooks Cambium 'carved' model (my favorite saddle).  Tires were 700x32 Panaracer GravelKing slicks at relatively low pressures.  Comfy.  As others have duly noted, just about any bicycle will do, as long as its comfortable for you.  

Good luck,

Jeff

Claremont, CA

On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:52:59 PM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:

[George Schick]

I would add that to the saddle the most comfortable pair of cycling shoes and pedals to accompany them - clipless if you use them or platform otherwise - are among the most important items you can select.  If your feet start to feel numb and painful after so many miles, not to mention your bottom, you'll be miserable long before the end of the brevet.

[ascpgh]

+1 on responses prioritizing comfort.

I haven't done any official randonneuring but I have ridden across the country with a small group on a light credit card touring ride and every summer I try to ride some self-inflicted centuries. 

When I was first approached about the cross country ride I realistically assessed my RB-1 as not up to it. I was sore, stiff and not very functional after anything more than four hours of riding it. I spoke to Grant about possibly a Riv custom and he told me about the upcoming Rambouillet and I bought one. Predictable handling, responsive to inputs and comfortable for long (8-12 hours) days of riding. Really great. 

My only addition is to consider what your load situation would be. I found that as I took on a bit more gear and anticipated more unpaved than I did for the mostly state road trek coast to coast the envelope of any bike can be reached. My Ram with fenders maxes out with 32mm tires and being moderate to high trail it doesn't tolerate loading in the front well and doesn't have braze ons to encourage such. This means if I head out for a few days my load in my Carradice Nelson Longflap saddlebag with a Bagman support adds to the already rear heavy distribution of just me on the bike and requires keeping the inflation of the rear tire to be higher, limiting the comfort of the 32s over time. A model with clearance for more tire width would be the next consideration 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[John Hawrylak]

I would say a Homer, to give a direct answer.   As the others pointed out, almost any bike would work.

A fellow in NJ Randonnuers has been using a AHH-MUSA for over 10 years (56cm I think).    

The one AHH-MIT I rode felt very light, lighter than I thought it would.   I was surprised.

You can fit wider tires and fenders compared to Riv models earlier then the AHH.

From everything that's been written on the AHH, it appears to have the lightest tubeset of any Riv model.   Just watch how much weight you carry in the front since the wheel flop is high (true for any RBW model).   

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 4:52:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:

[Ted Durant]

On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 4:52:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:

Looking for opinions/thoughts on the best Riv for Brevets, 200-400K rides. Looking for current models as well as older models. Thanks

I've done 200-600km brevets on various bikes, Rivendell and others. My first 200km was on a Heron road bike, and I just last week set my personal best time for 200km on that same bike. On the first one I had a saddle bag, and that was the last time I did a brevet without a handlebar bag! The most similar Riv models to the Heron road would be Roadeo, Rambouillet, or Roadini. I have done a large amount of brevet riding on a Bleriot, and the "country bike" line descended from that  (A Homer Hilsen, Sam Hillborne) would be similar. 

As others have said, comfort is the priority, but I would be more specific and say that comfort _over many hours_ is the priority. A lot of things, like cushy saddles and cushy shoe soles, are comfortable feeling at the start, but after 8 hours of riding can be the source of much agony. I would put your riding position at the top of the list, and everyone is different in that regard. I am light and flexible and the most comfortable position for me for very long rides is the classic road bike position, back at about 45 degrees, drop bars with the tops almost even with the saddle and a pretty deep drop so my position changes a fair amount as I move around on the bars. One of the important lessons I have learned is that riding too slowly can be a problem, just as trying to ride too fast can be a problem. They are different kinds of problems, to be sure. For me, riding too slowly means 1) I'm in the saddle longer (duh!), and 2) I'm putting more weight on my butt and less on my legs. I have many times been struggling in the last half of a brevet and found that spending some time riding a bit faster has helped me to feel better. Having the ability to change between a broad range of positions is important for me, and all my bikes, despite their differences in tubing and geometry, wind up with very similar rider positioning.

Back to the handlebar bag ... for me that is a very important part of the setup. While I love the way Grant's designs ride and handle, they tend to have fairly high steering flop that is amplified by the weight of a handlebar bag. I don't usually carry a lot of weight there, and  I mostly ride relatively gentle hills,so it's not a deal-breaker. If I was doing a lot of curvy mountain descents, I wouldn't choose a Rivendell with a handlebar bag that had much weight in it. That's one of the reasons I ended up replacing the Bleriot with a bike with less trail. I took the Bleriot (which was my travel bike) down some descents that would have been more fun with more linear steering response. Also, I had my Heron fork pulled for more rake, less trail/flop.

Lastly - tire sizes (carrying over from another recent thread!) - with the wide availability of truly excellent tires in 622 and 584 diameters and a wide range of sizes, it's almost irrelevant what size wheels the bike uses. If your brevets involve rough roads/gravel/dirt, of course you will want pretty wide tires. You probably want decent fenders, too, if there's any chance of it raining. I've done brevets on tires ranging from 26mm to 54mm wide. Wider is generally better, but I've had good and bad rides on all of them. All Rivendells tend to have more tire and fender room than other bikes designed for similar purposes.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[nlerner]

In past years before I sold it off, my brevet bike was a Romulus. It saw many centuries, a few 200k rides, a 300k ride, and a couple of 24-hour 320k flèche team rides. I ran it with 32mm tires and fenders. As others have said, comfort at the contact points is key: feet, butt, and hands.

Neal Lerner

Brookline MA

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hi Dick,

Because the 200k-400k rides would be done in all one shot without sleep stops, I think a Roadeo/Roadini would work great with a rear seatbag (Riv saddlesack or Revelate) and a small handlebar bag.  My Roadeo is set up more aggressively than my rando bike, but I have ridden 20+ hour rides on it. 

However, like all randonneurs you may think you want to do 200k-400k, but once successful with those, you start thinking about the 600k, and then the 1200k etc. :-).

In that event, the AHH or Sam Hillborne would be a nice choice for a multi-day ride--mainly because you can easily put a front rack on the bike and have a larger front bag that is well supported, and you can fit fatter tires on the bike, which would be more comfortable for the multi-day rides.

That said, I think the Roadeo would do absolutely fine with a Mark's rack and mounting with P-clamps.  I had that setup on my Rambouillet and it worked great.

Have fun!

Toshi

On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 1:53 PM Dick Combs <rlc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looking for opinions/thoughts on the best Riv for Brevets, 200-400K rides. Looking for current models as well as older models. Thanks

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[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

The best Rivendell for brevets is obviously a custom Rivendell designed for brevets. I understand the waiting list isn't crazy long. :)

I've done a few 200k and populaires, and had taken everything from my custom Rivendell that was designed for brevets, to my commuter Toyo Atlantis complete with front and rear racks, fenders, dynamo lighting and brevet-approved boxy front bag. I even rode a Jan Heine-archetype Boulder Cycles bike with "skinny tubing" to see if a planing frame with low trail geometry is the bee's knees. It's all doable, as long as you have the mental fortitude, physical fitness, and correct "comfort" bike fit. The speeds will be different, but randonneuring is never about all-out speed; randonneuring is about finishing within the time limit, having fun, and perhaps having a bit of self-discovery and introspection.

As others have pointed out, remaining comfortable (particularly with the contact points) and having a reliable bike are two critical factors that a bike can make. I'll also add that one shouldn't skimp on tires, so that eye-watering $$$$ spent on Rene Herse or other fast-rolling supple tires will seem good value when you're wondering if you can make that last 20%.

Good luck!

On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:52:59 PM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:

[Eric Marth]

I'm surprised that Bill Lindsay, a board member who's done a lot of brevets on a lot of different Rivs, hasn't written in. 

Seems to me that from the current lineup a Homer or Sam would be a great way to go given rack mounts as well as tire and fender clearances. Looking further back in the catalog perhaps a Saluki or Bleriot would be solid choices as well.

On the Velo Orange blog the other day there was a post titled "What Makes a Good Rando Bike?" Worthwhile read: 

https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2022/08/what-makes-good-rando-bike.html 

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Yeah, I've ridden with Bill when he has ridden 4 different Riv models: 

300k on a 700c A Homer Hilsen

200k on a 650b Sam H.

200k on a 700c Legolas

200k on a 700c Roadeo

I believe he also did a 200k on a Roadini, but I don't think I was on that ride.  The only complaint that I ever recall is that the Legolas handling is very responsive and for a long ride, it may require more attention than riding the Roadeo/Sam/AHH, so it might not have been as pleasant. He might have said that the Sam H. was a perfect brevet bike and that despite it being heavier than other bikes he has ridden, he was fast on the bike and rode one of, if not his fastest time for a 200k on the bike.

I'm sure we'll hear it from the horse's mouth soon enough :).

Toshi in Oakland

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[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 5:44:03 PM UTC-4 ttoshi wrote:

 He might have said that the Sam H. was a perfect brevet bike and that despite it being heavier than other bikes he has ridden, he was fast on the bike and rode one of, if not his fastest time for a 200k on the bike.

This wouldn't surprise me. As lots of people have chimed in, it's mostly about comfort. Even if there's a lot of climbing, we're carrying a bunch of gear and food and the weight of the bike is a small percentage of the total rider/bike/gear package.

As I mentioned, my fastest 200km ride was on my Heron Road, which was a prototype that was built using the rear stays from the touring bike as that was all Waterford had at the time they built it. It also has a very heavy rear wheel and freewheel, and when you pick up the bike you can really feel how heavy the back end is, even without the steel-rail Brooks B-17 that used to be on it!

My Bleriot, which is very similar to the Sam H, was plenty stout (let's say, heavy) and I happily rode it on 200-600km rides with a wide range of average speeds. It's much more about the motor than the chassis, though as the comment on the Legolas points out, the handling has a big impact on long-distance comfort.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hi all,

Bill is enjoying a trip in Europe right now, but was able to send me a quick message to relay to the group.  Straight from the horse's mouth:

As Toshi pointed out I’ve done brevets on a ton of Rivs and a ton of other bikes. I’m probably a lousy resource for suggesting ‘the best Riv for brevets’ because folks can do brevets on any bike. To me it’s all about setup and preparation.  If you are prepared and if your bike is set up well, you’ll have a great time. If you are poorly prepared, no bike will fix it. If your set up is poor, no amount of prep will be sufficient. The trick is how to tell somebody else to set up a bike that will work for them. I’m extremely adept at setting up a bike for myself, but it’s taken a lot of work to develop that expertise and self-knowledge. 

Some people don’t like to hear the truth about my Legolas. My Legolas is a cyclocross race bike.  One can do a brevet on a cyclocross race bike, but the Legolas is not a ‘brevet bike’ or even a ‘fat tire road bike’. It’s not a ‘gravel bike’ either. It’s a cyclocross race bike. 

I’ll chime in more in September 

Bill

[John Hawrylak]

Just 1 bit of advice for the weight in a front bag & saddle bag for a Rivendell, I remember from a Grant P blog

Put the heavy items, tools, tubes, extra clothes, extra food, in the saddlebag .    Put LIGHT items in the front bag, food until the next control and items you will want to get while moving or not dismounting.     

Since the Riv models have higher wheel flop (due to higher trail), keeping the load light upfront minimizes the effects of high wheel flop.  

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 4:52:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:

[Nikko in Oakland]

Bill (via Toshi) 

Off topic, but I gotta hear more about this delineation between a racing cyclocross bike and an aggressive gravel bike. I have my own thoughts on the same topic, but i'm happy to treat a cyclocross bike as a gravel bike any day. 

On topic, I was dithering pretty heavily on whether or not my Legolas was going to be my brevet bike or not, and decided against it for some of the same reasons Bill mentioned. A bit too responsive (great for short rides and hard corners), and it's set up slightly more aggressive than my past rando bikes. I was initially hunting down a 60cm Rambouillet for brevets and commuting, but ended up stumbling upon a good deal on a Boulder Brevet that is literally the perfect bike for me. 

My two cents... Ram, AHH, Sam, Roadini, Roadeo are your better bets for rando, from best to least best (mostly because of luggage options and the such). At Del Puerto 200km 2021, I did see someone on a really sick ruby or red Atlantis. 

[William Lindsay]

Nikko has gotta hear more about how I categorize bikes. He said “ i'm happy to treat a cyclocross bike as a gravel bike any day. “

There’s nothing wrong with treating a cyclocross race bike as a gravel bike. There’s nothing wrong with using your cyclocross race bike as a gravel bike or riding it on a gravel ride. Similarly one can take their cyclocross race bike on a road ride or a brevet or a commute. Those uses don’t change the fact that the Rivendell Legolas is a cyclocross race bike. That’s all.  

Gravel Bike means a broad spectrum of things in 2022.  For me the main differences between a gravel bike and a cyclocross race bike are the gravel bike has a lower BB, wider tire clearance, a longer front center, and a slacker STA (in my book). A cyclocross race bike is also set up to be carried in cyclocross races.  

Bill Lindsay

Somewhere near the border of Germany and the Netherlands. 

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