Bike Life Lately

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I just want to talk bikes for a little bit. Threads with subjects are great and all, but so is talking shop. And we are about to hit a spate of cold weather here in SW Michigan and I am a little morose after a few days of Pretend Spring. I did get 25 miles in today and Monday, but now I want to talk shop.

I don’t know what you all have been up to, but I have been fighting with and fidgeting with my bikes.

Recently, I went through a great stem swap where I changed over most of my bikes to Faceplater stems. I even put one on my college boys’ big old Clem with Bosco bars. I even used my new torque wrench, and…the bars slipped! So now I have new Albatross bars and stem and shims because Riv believes this 31.8 clamp will grip 25.4 bars better. I have little experience with shims. And what I have learned about them is that they will set you to cussing. You want the bars centered, but then the shims slink out of their spot. When you want to nudge them just a bit, they have bitten into the center of the Albatross bar and you must find a way to knock them loose. Then the whole bar moves and you have to re-center and line up the gaps in shim/clamp.  When you knock the shims loose a few times you realize there are metal shavings on your fingers, which means you are damaging stuff. And every time you decide to adjust the position you have to fight with the shims AND loosen and re-tighten 4 bolts with your torque wrench. I have emailed 2 people about this, badgering them to check my work and say it’s safe. I made peace with the shims being a millimeter uneven because at least the bars are centered. Then I went to wash the metal shavings off my hands.

Shims. In short, I hate them.

During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on its way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see every day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close color match. It’s passable, but sad.

I turned my attention to the mermaid Platypus, which I have no good excuse to have anymore, and noticed the rear tire is flat again. This is because on Monday, I decided I would top off the sealant, and could not be bothered to put the bike in the stand. The clamp on the stand needs more seatpost and I didn’t want to raise my saddle. So I did it with the bike on the kickstand and was never able to recover the seal between rim and tire. I have gotten by with this in the past. Got cocky and have now been brought low. Every week, and you can set your watch by it, I do the walk of shame into the shop. I fling open their door, the cowbell rings, and I announce, “Guys! A terrible thing has happened!” I will go there again tomorrow because a terrible thing has happened -  that seal did not hold and we are back to flat tire and dripping sealant. They are sick of me at this point but they are Michiganders, good folk through and through, and they do not let on. 

Meanwhile, Charlie. I’ve been running away with Charlie on club rides. High winds have really cramped our style. Charlie and I are on a learning curve. I try and find out if the sounds he’s making are benign or malignant. There was a screeching pedal (a terrible thing that happened!) that my shop addressed. But now there is ghost shifting and something whirring when I stand to climb and toss my weight on the drive side of the bike. Charlie had been denied his accoutrements because I tried to make him Pure Road Bike and keep his accessories minimal. We failed miserably and I’ve junked up the bars just like Charlie’s a Platypus. The final piece, his German mirror, arrived today.  I still don’t know if Charlie is any faster than a Platypus. Nothing is fast in these winds. We are out there shredding our thighs, trying to brave winds and get fit for the season with Charlie and his junked-up non-aero bars.

What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop?

Leah

[John Robert Williams]

Good Morning Leah....I feel your pain....I'm 3-4 hours north of you and not only do we have the wind off the frigid lake, we've had SNOOOOW...all the schools are closed up here today in TVC.

On your tire issue, if you cannot put the bike on the stand because of not enough exposed seat post, try hanging your bike on the top of the repair stand by the nose of the saddle...yes, it may rock back and forth, but they balance quite nicely up there. At least it gets the wheel/tire up off the ground and allows you to spin the wheel to slosh the sealant around before pumping it up. A trick I learned from the sealant guys, (but it takes removing your wheel) is to put in the sealant in and then lay the wheel across the top of a 5 gallon bucket (or any bucket, I guess). Then flip it over, wobble it like a hula-hoop to get the sealant into all the cracks along the bead. Let it sit for 5 mins at least per side. It always works for me.

On the shim front (pun intended), it's at best a draconian crude "patch" of a mis-match. Stems that don't fit bars, or vice-versa, are just a full stop for me. They are never a tight, snug fit. Then, as you have found they dig in and do unnecessary damage to the bar. Shims are a weak attempt to blend old and new standards. Buy the stem to fit the bar. NITTO's are nice, but they are not the only game in town. 

On the paint chip, I hear you there too! It would be nice if RBW made some nice small logo stickers that acted like band-aids over a zit. A classy solid cover-up that looks like it belongs there. (you seem to have their ear!). Before I put the fork stops on the Platypus, the front rack whipped around and took a nice chunk out of the downtube, the first day. GRRR! Oh well, I'm treating it like a warn-in pair of jeans. They can't stay showroom perfect forever.

Please do the WARM UP Sunshine dance for us....the next ten days look like sheer misery here.

I hope this helps!

JohnRobertWilliams

Traverse City, MI

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John Robert Williams

[Jay]

What a great topic and story you've shared, Leah.  I'm guessing many of us here can relate!

"Great stem swap of '25" is brilliant.  I feel for you.  I have an infinite number of spare stems from years of dealing in fit, and the saga continues (new one arrived last week).

Regarding fighting and fidgeting with bikes - I'm there with you.  I ebb and flow between I'm going to tackle something myself, to why bother, let the pros handle it.  On one bike I'm converting from drops to alt bar I installed the rear derailleur, shifters, brakes and bars of course, and I'm also tackling new cables and full-length housing.  I can't get the shifter to work.  It could be multiple things so I'll be doing the walk of shame into the shop today at lunch.  This is one of the reasons I love my Roadini - rim brakes, QR levers, downtube shifters, simple but effective brake levers, inner tubes.  That doesn't mean it's impervious to frustrations at times.

Do you lay in bed after a frustrating experience earlier in the day and rack your brain over these things?  I do :-)

[Leah Peterson]

Ooh, John, fork stops - I did not know about these. I also have a purple Platypus with a Nitto Basket Rack and the bars DO swing around and hit the top tube at times. I will go find your thread so I can see what those are. 

Also, I thought the same re: shims. But this was the rec from RBW so I went along with it. More clamping surface, and such. I am not an engineer, just a layperson in that world but I find the flaking of steel unnerving. And this is my SON’S bike, and heaven forbid I would ever set him up with something that could be unsafe. (This college kid thinks nothing about the bike. He *might* notice a flat tire, but I doubt it. He just rides it and enjoys it and thinks absolutely nothing else about it. I got him new tires, dynamo, and better gearing and he noticed none of it on the inaugural ride.)

Jay - I have the exact same feelings you do but none of the skill. I cannot convert bars and install cables and housing…kudos to you for trying and muddling through when the parts aren’t playing nicely together. I do not lay in bed and rack my brain over mechanical problems - I hand wring and feel anxious and desperate until I arrive in Pedal’s parking lot and see glorious, wonderful M working at the stand. I don’t have anything wrong that he can’t put right. I used to cry in Vegas bike shop parking lots because it never went well and they never understood my bikes and I often left their shops with new problems. But this shop - they usually get it right, so if hearts come out of my eyes when I see them, it’s to be expected because of my long and tragic Bike Shop History. I have been there enough that I now have a labor code in the computer -the “Leah Labor Code” and I’m not joking. For a time there was a Leah Shelf with stuff for my bikes on it. I am their best, most hapless customer.

Everyone tells me it’s not hard to work on bikes. That you can’t really mess things up. But I find it astounding how many little things you can get wrong that make the bike unsafe. A couple months ago I had my new stem slammed and guess what - that’s dangerous. Guess what else - it can get stuck. Another problem glorious, wonderful M had to fix for me. 

L

On Mar 20, 2025, at 7:19 AM, John Robert Williams <johnrober...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Drew Fitchette]

Love this thread Leah! 

As an obsessive tinkerer I find that I "overwork" my bikes sometimes when I should be spending more time riding them.

I've been spending time dialing my Appa in to it's current form this winter, which has brought me lots of joy and time for introspection in my makeshift shop area. One big revelation is the amount of things I've accrued in the "just in case" category. This has mostly been extra bags, racks, and accessories. It's given me good impetus to clear out some of that stuff to the local bike nonprofit here in Atlanta, or on the list if it's something I figure folks might want. One advantage I've got is that said bike nonprofit is a 5 minute drive or 10 minute bike ride from my house and the shop manager is a good friend... so when I inevitably break something or mess something up I can tuck tail and have it remedied quickly. 

Per the paint chip discussion, my first big ride on the Appa I had a chain mishap and took some nice paint chunks out of the chain stay. Jay, +1 for stickers or Newbaums covering paint chips if you can't find a perfect nail polish match. Really like how Riv showed the shim/wrap trick to cover the ding on their showroom Platty. 

One slow moving project the last couple months has been shifting my wife's Schwinn Crosscut from a more aggressive drop bar set up to a more upright comfortable ride. After complaining about her shoulders and back on longer rides I swapped out her Velo Orange drops to a 100mm Tallux and Albatross set up. Her bike has a Microshift Advent 1x set up with a trigger shifter so it's a really nice simple riding experience. I also swapped out her WTB Nano 40mm tires to wider RH 44mm Manastash Ridge that I'd ridden on my Sam for awhile. Pretty wild what a huge difference it makes to the ride quality! It's been really rewarding to work on her set up so she's more comfortable this coming spring/summer while we take advantage of the nice weather.

My next project should arrive mid next week... and I'm excited to have another Riv that checks a different box than my "everyday driver" Appa.

- Drew in Atlanta.

[Leah Peterson]

Drew, what new Riv is coming to live with you???

I am in sympathy with you and your bag/rack extras situation. But on these bikes, aren’t those the things we most often change? The Platy was a road bike. Now it is a do-anything bike. I had a rack stored and ready for it and boy am I glad. In fact (STORY TIME), the reason I had the rack was because Pam and I were running around the ‘24 Philly Bike Expo and we had stuffed everything we needed in our bike bags for the day. Different changes of clothes - I had one set so I could be darling but then also another set to sweat in for the morning ride and yet another with wool and layers for the night ride. At the time, that was my Racing Platypus, and it had a saddlebag support and a BagBoy. This was inadequate. “Give me that,” Pam said, swiping my gear from me. Into her Backabikes it went. Tiny as she is, her Betty already weighs as much as her, and I hated to weigh her down further. I went straight home and ordered a rear rack. Then I had it fitted to my Platy and put it aside. I’m so glad I have it now.

I say keep the accessories. You’ll come back to them later!

L

On Mar 20, 2025, at 11:50 AM, Drew Fitchette <drewfi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Love this thread Leah! 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8e800077-5bb6-4c97-b4b1-da51f721d87cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I personally think shims are pretty great!, certainly best to avoid, but when they’re necessary to use in order to use what you’ve got, great.

One thing I was curious about was your method of sealant refilling. Sounds like you pop the bead out of the wheel and pour it in? Then hope for a relatively mess free reseating? It works, but not as good as sending it through the valve stem. If you’re not familiar, your presta valves on your tubeless wheel sets have easily removable cores that, when removed, provide an open tube into the tire. Orange seal sells these small bottles with the properly sized feeder tubes to make it easy and clean. They also provide a dipstick/reamer to clear that tube into the tire in case that sealant has sealed over the valve. It’s very straightforward and rarely messy, and no reseating of the tire necessary, just pump it up and you’re on your way.

As for my bike life lately, I’m working on a rack for my Clem, and was scrounging for small bits of brazing rod last week to finish some small stuffs and accidentally used some brass rod that looked the part. Didn’t “flow” like it was supposed to, but all’s well after some filing and a trip to the olde welding shoppe. 

Last question- do you and anybody else out there dedicated to friction shifting swap your lower and upper derailleur pulleys? I believe the idea is that no side to side float on the upper pulley gives more feedback to your body’s sensors when it’s not settled, and presumably could lead to less ghost shifting?

Curious.

-Kai

.

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 8:23:58 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Laing Conley]

Handlebar shims are the worst. Unfortunately I like the Nitto lugged stems which are 26.0 and all of the handlebars that I have (except for the Frank Jones Sr) are 25.4. Add in that the Nitto shims are two piece and larger in width than the stem. So I have to trim the shims which makes them even harder to install. A few months (years?) back, Rivendell sold some 1 piece shims and I bought two. I have yet to install them. Fortunately, I have yet to tape the bars on my Custom (5 years?) so at least I don’t have to deal with re-taping the bars. I have switched back and forth between 100 and 90 stems a couple of times. The paralysis of analysis. Faceplaters would make life easier, but I am not a fan of the way that they look. One nice thing about bullmoose and boscomoose bars is they simplify bar adjustment to up and down and they never slip. 

I have way too many bikes and have never even considered trying sealant. Sealant is a solution to a non-existent problem in my mind. When a tire gets low I just pump it up. I have no idea what a goathead is.  I did put a set of TPU tubes on the Custom - no problems yet. 

I have been playing musical tires though. I bought a set of Rene Herse 700x44 Corkscrew Climb semi-slicks to replace the 700x44 Snoqualmie Pass tires on my Rosco Bubbe V1 gravel bike. I then put the Snoqualmie Pass tires on my Frank Jones Sr to replace the 700x38 Barlow Pass tires. They fit the Frank Jones Sr, no problem - definitely a cushier ride now. Funny how 38mm has become a narrow tire. 700x19 and 27x1 were a long time ago. 

Laing

Delray Beach FL

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/51fd15ac-1390-4ff8-8fa1-4cf6e89040b3n%40googlegroups.com.

[Armand Kizirian]

Speaks to the merits of having as little bikes as one needs. As life goes on, I find the decisions that allow for the most abundance of time (and actual bike rides) are the best ones to make. I rebuilt my road and mountain bike last year. Bikes that I've owned for 10+ years (and have rebuilt many other times). It was a pain. I don't ride them as much as I used to. Having one bike and making peace with that grows more and more attractive by the day.

[Leah Peterson]

I have felt exactly this way, too, Armand. When I see Pam and her weathered do-it-all Betty I envy that those two have all of their adventures together.  It’s simple, it’s nice, it’s sentimental.

I got sucked done a different path after getting more free time to ride as my kids grew up. I needed a road bike. But I still needed a racked and bagged bike. And then I wanted a shorter wheelbase bike so I could put it in my SUV or Amtrak. And so on and so forth. But maybe I whittle down the collection a bit in coming years. I do not relish taking care of 4 bikes.

On Mar 20, 2025, at 1:33 PM, Armand Kizirian <kiziria...@gmail.com> wrote:

Speaks to the merits of having as little bikes as one needs. As life goes on, I find the decisions that allow for the most abundance of time (and actual bike rides) are the best ones to make. I rebuilt my road and mountain bike last year. Bikes that I've owned for 10+ years (and have rebuilt many other times). It was a pain. I don't ride them as much as I used to. Having one bike and making peace with that grows more and more attractive by the day.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4cca4ec3-eb44-494b-b440-8487fe253a63n%40googlegroups.com.

[Drew Fitchette]

I agree about swapping things out, Leah! Though, I think the overlap of things that function similarly just got to be a bit much for my limited amount of space in the house. My rule of thumb is a front and back rack solution for each bike I've got, and plenty of bags that I can store inside of one another when they're not being used. Too often I fall victim to grabbing something from the bins or on a forum just because it's a good deal and I've seen them online when I've got a perfectly good option in my quiver. That being said variety is the spice of life! 

Laing, I love the Bullmoose bars on my Appa and was even thinking about Chocomoose or Boscomoose for my incoming bike as I'm leaning toward swept back bars for it. My only worry is that the new bike's stack is going to be pretty tall already... so I might need to go 90-190 and a Tosco/Billie. Also interested in the new bars coming in the fall.

Armand, I hear you on the merits of less bikes, I can see myself pretty comfortable with 2-3. My Appa was purchased as a Swiss army knife "do-it-all" bike, but I'm finding myself feeling similar to Max who posts here that I'd like something that can be a dedicated trail/MTN bike where I don't have to pick my lines as much. Similarly could see wanting a dedicated road bike like Leah's Charlie later on down the line... but don't have that itch yet as the Appa is so pleasurable to ride with friends or on the beltline here in Atlanta. 

Leah, I've got an orange 59cm Clem L on it's way and I've already bin doing some digging for some fun NOS parts to mix with some of what came stock on the bike. Will post a NBD when I've got it purring! 

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Kai!

I do the exact method you describe - the 4 oz Orange Seal Endurance bottle with tube right into the presta valve. But the tire came unseated anyway. That green bike has been problematic - and last year I had the tires replaced for that reason and it had been fine. No idea why it’s acting up again unless it was just because I unseated it by filling the valve while standing on its kick stand. 

I’m excited to see this rack! Amazing you can make your own.

I have never heard of swapping derailleur pulleys! Anyone?

On Mar 20, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:



I personally think shims are pretty great!, certainly best to avoid, but when they’re necessary to use in order to use what you’ve got, great.

One thing I was curious about was your method of sealant refilling. Sounds like you pop the bead out of the wheel and pour it in? Then hope for a relatively mess free reseating? It works, but not as good as sending it through the valve stem. If you’re not familiar, your presta valves on your tubeless wheel sets have easily removable cores that, when removed, provide an open tube into the tire. Orange seal sells these small bottles with the properly sized feeder tubes to make it easy and clean. They also provide a dipstick/reamer to clear that tube into the tire in case that sealant has sealed over the valve. It’s very straightforward and rarely messy, and no reseating of the tire necessary, just pump it up and you’re on your way.

As for my bike life lately, I’m working on a rack for my Clem, and was scrounging for small bits of brazing rod last week to finish some small stuffs and accidentally used some brass rod that looked the part. Didn’t “flow” like it was supposed to, but all’s well after some filing and a trip to the olde welding shoppe. 

Last question- do you and anybody else out there dedicated to friction shifting swap your lower and upper derailleur pulleys? I believe the idea is that no side to side float on the upper pulley gives more feedback to your body’s sensors when it’s not settled, and presumably could lead to less ghost shifting?

Curious.

-Kai

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/51fd15ac-1390-4ff8-8fa1-4cf6e89040b3n%40googlegroups.com.

<IMG_1038.jpeg>

[Piaw Na]

During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on its way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see every day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close color match. It’s passable, but sad.

When I put together the Roadini for the 13 year old (back when he was 12), I took extra care to buy helicopter tape (the kind they sell as screen protectors for smartphone), and taped up all the conceivable places where he would abuse the bike when locking it up at school. Top tube, down tube, fork blades, you name it. I must have added at least 200g in weight based on how much tape I used. Well, on Sunday I took a look, and despite the helicopter tape, he had abraded enough on the fork to scrape past the tape and chipped away at the paint underneath. I replaced the tape, but hey, if your college boy hasn't destroyed the paint on his bike yet I'd say you're doing great.

My wife put 4000 miles on her Ritchey Road Logic and somehow she needs a new rear derailleur again. Luckily, Shimano CUES stuff is not expensive but it's also supposed to be more durable than regular stuff, so that's at least one disappointment.

As far as your Charlie Gallop choices, I stand by my stance that if you're going to have multiple bikes, you should make them as different from each other as possible. But that's just me.

 

[Ben Miller]

Hi Leah,

Can you describe your "Great Stem Swap of ‘25" a bit more? You had a 25.6 mm bar with a 25.6 clamp Technomic or similar stem? And wanted to swap in a 25.6 clamp Faceplater? But then was told to use a 25.6 bar with a 31.8 clamp FP with shims? Is that correct? If so, very curious! 

Carbon Assembly Grease/Compound, like Park Tool's SAC-2, is great for setting up handlebars with shims. The "grease" acts like a weak glue during assembly, holding things in place, much like using actual grease during loose ball bearing assembly. But then during operation, it increases the friction 'tween the surfaces to help improve the clamping of the bars/shims. Maybe you did this? But given your description and frustrations, I'd thought I'd mention it. 

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Ben!

I did now know this hot tip, but boy, it would have helped me. Now of course I have it all put in place and am loathe to take it apart again, but I’ll google that compound and get it so I have it on hand.

So, the Great Stem Swap of ‘25. 

I developed the most annoying tic in my red Platy’s bar/stem interface. The bar was aluminum in the 25.4 clamp Tallux. It made me crazy. Adhesive was applied to the bar at the collar where the clamp grabs it, which has so far worked. But before we realized the source, I was blaming the stem. And I thought, that’s IT, I’m done dealing with wide bars on these one-bolt stems. And I decided I’d change over all the stems to Faceplaters.

I included my son’s Clem because it lives a rough life and needs the security of a 4 bolt stem, I think. He had stock steel Bosco bars in his 59 Clem. Ugly. Wide. No collar, just a textured area where the clamp goes. His bike wintered at our house, and when we reconnected to go to the Philly Bike Expo together, I returned his bike to him and he got to try it out at the Philly rides.

The bars slipped immediately. And they had not slipped with the stock Tallux stem. Because Riv was at the Expo I showed them. I had installed with the torque wrench everything.  The fix was we should get rid of both stem and bar and replace with the 31.8 clamp Faceplater with a 31.8 Tosco bar. That bar was way too wide for the bike to live in college bike racks so I said, no, Albatross or Billie, which are 25.4. They said it should still be the 31.8 Faceplater stem, even though the bar is 25.4. Would offer more gripping. And that’s how we ended up here. I wish I just had a 25.4 but I defer to experts because I am afraid of doing things wrong and damaging precious sons or their bicycles.

I would not be surprised if Riv is changing these stems. They have already DCd the 225 angled Faceplater in favor of the 90-190s. Maybe they will get rid of the 25.4 bars and just do the standard 31.8 instead. I wish they would, and I don’t know why they haven’t.

Who is still following this? Is anyone tracking? It’s a lot…

L

On Mar 20, 2025, at 4:16 PM, Ben Miller <ben.l....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Leah,

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/71869656-0a84-439b-a4ee-28ed1f87d13bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ben Miller]

Leah, 

Well, you got my attention now! Haha.

A few things:

1. Soma/Merry sales sells an aluminum 31.8 clamp Albatross bar. It's 1 cm wider (56 vs Riv's 55), but still narrower than the Billie. I know you just purchased a new handlebars, but this might be option for you with a 31.8 Faceplater?
2. I mentioned with in another recent post, but more bolts doesn't necessarily mean more better. The maximum clamping power of a clamp/stem is only related to the lowest torqued bolt in the clamp/stem. I know this is counterintuitive, but it's all about the bolt size, not the number of them! Since M8 bolts can be torqued higher M5, a Tallux stem can be torqued to a higher spec and likely offer better holding power compared to Faceplaters with their M5 bolts. (Torque specs are only for bolts, those will break long before you're able to damage a handlebar thru over tightening)
3. Besides the bolts, the other major factor preventing bars from slipping is the clamp diameter. That's why MTB have gone to 31.8+ size clamps (it's not to stiffen them, because then you'd have to increase the diameter much more than just at the clamp). So, everything else being equal, an Albatross 25.6 in a 25.6 clamp or shim will slip easier than an Albatross 31.8 in a 31.8 clamp. (Shims really just convert your 31.8 clamp to a 25.6 clamp, not to 31.8 handlebars)
4. Final note on torque specs: to get the maximum clamping force from your multi-bolt stem, always torque to the maximum torque spec. One of the things that multiple bolts do offer, is a decreased likelihood of breaking a bolt. However, with a single bolt, you're better off torqueing to the lower end of the spec, to decrease the likelihood of breaking your single bolt. And this is the reason why stems with M8 bolts can have only 1 bolt, but stems with M5 bolts need to have 2 or more. The lower end of the torque spec for an M8 bolt is still 2 or more times greater than the max torque for an M5. 

All that said, I do have a set of drop bars with 25.6 clamps size in a 4-bolt stem shimmed from 31.8 to 25.6 on a rigid MTB, so I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with it. But albatross bars are going to generate a lot more torque on the clamp area with their big long levers of swept backiness :) 

Best of luck!

[Armand Kizirian]

Haven't read everything in this thread, but if you haven't tried using carbon friction paste, you should. There should be no need to go with a larger stem + shim for proper clamping. Be sure to thread all x4 screws in slight increments evenly before torquing them down, also critical.

[Leah Peterson]

Ah man, Ben, NOW what am I gonna do???

On Mar 20, 2025, at 6:57 PM, Ben Miller <ben.l....@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah, 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/91c037f2-e7f5-49e9-8dc5-4514e65b194en%40googlegroups.com.

[Kat]

I don't want to derail the stem/clamp/handlebar part of this discussion but call me tubeless-curious. I feel like I mainly see complaints about the difficulty of sealant. Are the benefits (from what I can tell, less weight, less flats) good enough to outweigh the fussiness of setup?

For me, I can't recall the last time I had a flat honestly. Although I am definitely jinxing myself by saying that. And I am not a weight weenie, so I just don't get the appeal of tubeless. I'm ready to be enlightened though!

Kat & her monogamous, do it all, Appaloosa

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, March 19, 2025 at 9:23:40 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop?

Same weather here on the other side of Lake Wisconsin (fka Lake Michigan, but hey, apparently all geographic names are up for grabs). I've had a few 4-5 hour rides to settle in on the great bar and stem swap of the winter of 24-25. I'm in the process of going to narrower bars and shorter stems on all my bikes. Goes well with taking my first Social Security check, I think. The last bike to succumb is my Riv Road, my racing bike, with its Campy Daytona group, 53t big ring, long, low position, and a weave handlebar tape job that has been on there for about 15 years. Well, that tape job is now in the bin. I've been going with single-color jobs, matching the tape to the saddle, more or less, and not sure if I'm going to stick with that. The Riv Road bars are bare for now, as I might still put different bars and a different stem on there.  The Riv Road has a white saddle, and white tape isn't going to last 15 years without a fair amount of shellac turning it not white. The tape that just came off was blue and white with a fair amount of shellac. Of course, a single layer of tape is a breeze to remove and replace, so a clean white wrap on a regular basis isn't a bad thing. It's also possible that I'm going to decide I don't need two almost identical road bikes - the Riv Road and the UrHeron. But it seems impossible that I'd decide to sell either of those.

My shop is a nightmare mess. I tried cleaning it and the leprechauns just swooped in and trashed the place. And the rest of my house is worse. We had a deer jump through a window into our living room. The window is fixed and now all the wood-look-vinyl tile is completely removed (and all our furniture in the garage) in prep for new flooring installation next week. 

I'm going to Portugal for a week of wine and grandkid time. The d*** leprechauns better have tidied up my shop while I'm gone. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Jason Fuller]

Tubeless is definitely in the "over-hyped" category for me, as someone who also rarely gets flats with tubes. I can imagine if you live somewhere with thorny things that tubeless could be life changing, but I'm of the opinion that if tubes aren't giving you problems, there's no reason to "fix it" with tubeless.  More mess, more periodic maintenance, more scrapping of otherwise good tires because they won't hold sealant anymore, etc. 

Lots of people have next to no issues with tubeless, and it's true that small punctures become a non-issue instead of a trailside repair, but I think most people run tubeless solely because it's the latest technology and we're conditioned to believe whatever is the latest is also the greatest. All of us here know better :) 

[Will Boericke]

If you are not riding big tires in dubious terrain, I don't believe there is a benefit to tubeless.  I have 5 bikes set up tubeless; I am not at all certain it's saved me from much of anything, but it does give me piece of mind in running low pressures on singletrack amid the new england rocks.  If you haven't flatted in memory, there is certainly no benefit - carry on with tubes!

Will

[Ben Miller]

Leah, It sounds like you're setup is currently working, so if you're happy with it, just ride! But if you continue to have problems, try the assembly grease/paste/compound. If you got $140 burning a hole in your pocket, and don't like the aesthetics and/or still concerned, buy the 31.8 Albos! They are options! :)

Kat, I agree with Jason and Will! I don't see much value in tubeless outside MTB/Fat bike tires. I do have them setup on one of my road-ish bikes, but I've had absolute horror stories with them. And this is with a completely tubeless "ready" system. It's really made me question some of my life choices.

[Kim H.]

@Leah,

As mentioned from Piaw Na using helicopter tape to protect your frame set, I second this. I have purchased a 30ft roll of this tape a couple of times.  There is enough to cover your whole bicycle with some left over for those areas that you may have forgotten. I highly recommend it. The tape will not pull off the decals on your bike.  I purchased it through AMAZON:

https://www.amazon.com/ISC-Racers-Tape-HT2308-Helicopter-OG/dp/B000O65W9Y/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.buPLsr2A8kh-Z7-LkH5V-7V73ci-XePAKKiJp09d30HjiyKhljNdUz_Px5zrCLLlmLyGlhLcfAQeOhFIcmBYOAenJ0OCNwR9LH5hPtHN2PqauT_2UgKUcES8RhF_Ih5R7akLSWeMWAJ_BmaFZ1yNLXUem5W_AawhhW59jPRHcNc9jKGmUmnmfQv7ho_ppe3nLV8N_h6NICTV3g2QBzaBx875nc-qRPY3yyPY4FrUh8M.pHNjEpAjru8kRd9aIqnyEFhTWagYpGbaxZZfbWbP0nU&dib_tag=se&keywords=helicopter+tape&qid=1742529398&sr=8-6

Kim Hetzel.

[Dorothy C]

I haven’t tried these, but noticed them on the  Rene Herse site yesterday - TPU tubes. They might be a good solution for the mermaid  bike if you don’t want to deal with sealant issues, but don’t want to use the standard butyl tubes either. They say they are a little thicker than the TPU tubes available elsewhere, for easier installation and strength, and also state they are suitable for rim brakes, another reason I had never considered TPUs for my bikes. 

Speaking of superstition around flats, I made a patch repair kit with spare tube, tools, a Speedier tire lever and a cussin patch tin  for each of  my bikes since Will’s newsletter discussion earlier last year, mostly in Elf pouches, and haven’t had a repairable flat since. Only a valve tear on the wheel of my Burley Nomad trailer, but that was discovered at home. I too don’t usually get many flats, maybe three or four a year at most. 

[Toshi Takeuchi]

TPU tubes sound really great, except for the price.  They are about 30$ each.  They are very light and you save more than 1g/dollar per tube compared to std butyl tubes, so it could be a bargain by that measure :-). Apparently they are also very easy to patch. (I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but may spring for 2 + spares if I do a grand randonnee someday.)

Tubeless is great for trail riding where low pressure tires give much better handling and you don't have to worry about pinch flats, but TPU tires apparently don't pinch flat readily, so you may be just as well off with TPU tubes without the mess of sealant etc.  Of course sealant is great for patching thorn holes or those pesky steel belted radial tire wires that penetrate standard tubes fairly easily.  TPU tubes are apparently more difficult to puncture, but I don't know how much more resistant they are.

Toshi in Oakland

[Bernard Duhon]

My experience with TP U tubes is mixed. I got several flights punctures right away. Tubolito replace 2 of them without question. The third I had to eat.

I have also had mixed results with patching them. Some paches very well others not so much.

 

I'm a glutton for punishment as the weight savings in a wheel are substantial so I'm gonna keep trying I currently have two running and they seem to have lasted a respectable period. I will try the Renee Hurst next

On my Rd. bikes and have run around 40 lbs

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[Ted Durant]

On Mar 21, 2025, at 9:16 PM, Bernard Duhon <ber...@bernardduhon.com> wrote:



My experience with TP U tubes is mixed.

There is an extensive thread covering my experience with RH TPU tubes. Short story is I am using latex tubes and have been very happy with that decision. I have only had one valve stem leak issue and, unlike TPU, it was repairable. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI

[Dan]

Thank you for your interesting posts Leah. I love reading about your thoughts as you grow and tinker your bike collection in ways to suit your preferred way of riding.

I'd like to touch on one aspect of what you've brought up, and share a similar experience. You say you tried to make your Charlie a "Pure Road Bike" with minimal accessories, but that you failed miserably. I can relate. I have a Roadini as of the start of the year. It's built as my Pure Road Bike, one to bring along on rides I take with the roadies I've been riding with lately. So it has fenders yes, but no racks. I've been trying. But I'm so used to being able to carry things on my bike that I feel like I am contorting myself to bring the bare minimum required for a ride: lock, pump, spare tube. With those jammed in I've no room leftover in my small handlebar bag for a coffee, outer layer, or book and pen for when I want to stop at a cafe to write in my journal. I feel like I'm only riding at 90%.

I'm inspired by you. Why fight what we know works well for us? I can see in my future a small front or rear rack, just enough to support a larger handlebar bag or saddlebag. It'll still be my 'road' bike, no doubt. But it will be MY road bike. I shouldn't fight who I am, just because nobody else is carrying a practical-sized bag on their 'road' bikes. Now that I think on it, that's a good philosophy for life in general...

[Patrick Moore]

This is very precise and useful information; I learned things I didn’t know. Thanks for sharing.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 4:57 PM Ben Miller <ben.l....@gmail.com> wrote:

… A few things:

[Patrick Moore]

Modern sealants were a game-changer for those of us who ride amongst the   (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris). Pre-sealant, I’d use up more than 150 Rema patches a year (I bought them in boxes of 100) and that was with pretty beefy tires.*

Instance: I installed a very supple lightweight tire on a Ram and got 5 punctures in the first 10 miles, this without sealant. I put sealant into my tubes and that solved the problem. That was Stan’s sealant; Orange Seal works ever better.

Tubeless: I use light tubes for road tires, from 30 psi (very lightweight 42 mm) to 60 psi (even lighter 28 mm) and I find that the right sealant — Orange Seal original formula — in tubes works as well against small punctures (thorns to small nails) as it does in tubeless tires. For off road I use tubeless tires with another Orange Seal formula.

So you don’t need tubeless to benefit from modern sealants.

But tubeless setups add other benefits, especially in fat low pressure tires: first, sealants might not work as well in tubes at very low pressures; I ride my light 50 mm tires as low as 18 psi. The right sealant in tubeless tires as low as 12 psi works very well.

Second, fat tubes weigh a lot; for a 50 mm 700C tire at least 150 grams and some are more like 200. So you save 1/3 to almost 12 lb per wheel.

Lastly, pinch flats. Me, I never pinch flat even at 12 psi with tubes, but it’s a risk if you hit a rock or cottonwood root at speed. Tubeless tires don’t have tubes and so they never get pinch flats. The sealant is necessary to seal punctures and also perfectly seal the tire beads against the rim.

Upshot: the right sealant lets one ride much, much nicer tires in areas where thorns would make them impossible otherwise; with tubeless tires it saves weight and prevents pinch flats.

But, con: sealants are messy. If you use them, be prepared for periodic replenishing as the sealant dries out; for punctures spraying sealant on you and the bike — fenders help! And with tubes, finding your flatted tube swimming inside a tire full of leaked sealant that didn’t do its job sealing a particularly big hole.

Still, balancing pro’s and con’s: If I didn’t live amongst goatheads, I’d not bother. A flat a week from debris is nothing for 3-4K miles (my earlier mileage) — I laugh when people complain about fixing 5 flats a year. But if sealant lets me ride very nice, light, and fragile tires that ride so nicely, it’s a godsend.

[Patrick Moore]

I’m sorry, I had to laugh, not at your travails but at the comic simultaneous arrival of minor mishaps, which can turn a sunny day into a cloudy one. It certainly happens to me. Sometimes it makes me give up in chagrin, go inside, and take a nap — and I’m only partially facetious here.

My own very recent frustrating failures was to, in retrospect foolishly, try to remove the dried Orange Seal Endurance from each RH Oracle Ridge. I spent the better part of 2 hours doing that — got front tire down from 620 grams to 510 grams and the rear from 640 to 530, but while doing this I also removed sufficiently thick, built-up layers of dried latex (OS Endurance dries in a skin instead of rubber octopuses) that by themselves had prevented most thorn flats over the last couple of months — the OS was perfectly dry as I’d not replenished it since early October.

110 gram and very effective and no-maintenance puncture-proof belts are something I should have just left alone.

Even worse, when I tried to reseat the beads so I could put in fresh sealant, the beads were too loose to seat with my compressor. Still, the exercise provided occasion to:

1. Air up once again the Soma Supple Vitesse SL wheelset that has been hanging from the ceiling for amost a year unused since I started riding the new Oracle Ridge wheeset. I added 3 fl oz of OS Endurance per tire and rode it today; man, at least 1 cog smaller in back for similar exertion in similar conditions at similar cadences. I had thought that the Oracel Ridges rolled pretty well on pavement but not compared to the SSV SLs. OTOH, the Somas don’t work as well in sand.

2. Finally try The Experiment: order TPU tubes for 50 mm tires and see if they work with OS regular formula this time, as Endurance doesn’t work in butyl tubes, at least for goatheads. If TPUs work with OS regular in 50 mm tires at 20 psi, I’ll probably switch my 28 mm Elk Passes and 42 mm Naches Passes from light butyl to TPU, too.

High in my area about 49*F, winds NW 18 to 25 gusts to 31 when I went out at just after 1 pm. I used the hooks on the Maes Parallels and I was very glad to have a multispeed cassette — used the 63, 66, 70, and 74 inch gears on the flat terrain as the roughly No-So route curved back and forth and broke in and out of the tree belt along Rio Grande Boulevard and return along the Paseo del Bosque recreational trail; and used them too on the short but steepish climbs and descents out and back on a Paseo del Norte trail excursus).

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 8:23 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just want to talk bikes for a little bit. Threads with subjects are great and all, but so is talking shop. And we are about to hit a spate of cold weather here in SW Michigan and I am a little morose after a few days of Pretend Spring. I did get 25 miles in today and Monday, but now I want to talk shop.

I don’t know what you all have been up to, but I have been fighting with and fidgeting with my bikes.

Recently, I went through a great stem swap where I changed over most of my bikes to Faceplater stems. I even put one on my college boys’ big old Clem with Bosco bars. I even used my new torque wrench, and…the bars slipped! So now I have new Albatross bars and stem and shims because Riv believes this 31.8 clamp will grip 25.4 bars better. I have little experience with shims. And what I have learned about them is that they will set you to cussing. You want the bars centered, but then the shims slink out of their spot. When you want to nudge them just a bit, they have bitten into the center of the Albatross bar and you must find a way to knock them loose. Then the whole bar moves and you have to re-center and line up the gaps in shim/clamp.  When you knock the shims loose a few times you realize there are metal shavings on your fingers, which means you are damaging stuff. And every time you decide to adjust the position you have to fight with the shims AND loosen and re-tighten 4 bolts with your torque wrench. I have emailed 2 people about this, badgering them to check my work and say it’s safe. I made peace with the shims being a millimeter uneven because at least the bars are centered. Then I went to wash the metal shavings off my hands.

Shims. In short, I hate them.

During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on its way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see every day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close color match. It’s passable, but sad.

I turned my attention to the mermaid Platypus, which I have no good excuse to have anymore, and noticed the rear tire is flat again. This is because on Monday, I decided I would top off the sealant, and could not be bothered to put the bike in the stand. The clamp on the stand needs more seatpost and I didn’t want to raise my saddle. So I did it with the bike on the kickstand and was never able to recover the seal between rim and tire. I have gotten by with this in the past. Got cocky and have now been brought low. Every week, and you can set your watch by it, I do the walk of shame into the shop. I fling open their door, the cowbell rings, and I announce, “Guys! A terrible thing has happened!” I will go there again tomorrow because a terrible thing has happened -  that seal did not hold and we are back to flat tire and dripping sealant. They are sick of me at this point but they are Michiganders, good folk through and through, and they do not let on. 

Meanwhile, Charlie. I’ve been running away with Charlie on club rides. High winds have really cramped our style. Charlie and I are on a learning curve. I try and find out if the sounds he’s making are benign or malignant. There was a screeching pedal (a terrible thing that happened!) that my shop addressed. But now there is ghost shifting and something whirring when I stand to climb and toss my weight on the drive side of the bike. Charlie had been denied his accoutrements because I tried to make him Pure Road Bike and keep his accessories minimal. We failed miserably and I’ve junked up the bars just like Charlie’s a Platypus. The final piece, his German mirror, arrived today.  I still don’t know if Charlie is any faster than a Platypus. Nothing is fast in these winds. We are out there shredding our thighs, trying to brave winds and get fit for the season with Charlie and his junked-up non-aero bars.

What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop?

Leah

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,

But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,

I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

[Leah Peterson]

Dan, this is so refreshing to read. You get it, you really do. 

You’re riding with roadies. I’m riding with roadies. We like our Rivendells, but wouldn’t it be nice to adapt them a little bit to make them more official road bikes? Maybe then the roadies might recognize them as road bikes? Pure Road Bike. Acceptance feels so nice. 

I had a Bag Boy on my racing Platypus, which was the bike I rode with the roadies before Charlie came along. It had only the lightweight rack, which was great. I had everything in that Mary Poppins bag. Oh, no toilet paper at the bathroom stop, you say? I got you. You need to shed layers on the ride? Give them to me. Ran out of water? I have this extra liter, hand me your bottle. I even had extra full-finger gloves (gave away a pair on a ride one time) and disposable surgical gloves so people kept grease of their hands during roadside repairs. Snacks for all. Pulling a bonking rider out of a crisis more than once. My best save was the woman who’d recently miscarried, was riding a metric and was, in my opinion, low on her lytes, which I had in the bag to give her. That bag made the bike so useful, though it may have made it heavy. 

I am not sorry I got a Rivendell road bike, but maybe I’m sorry I thought I should morph it into Pure Road Bike. There isn’t joy in Pure Road Bike. There is only a pleasing aesthetic.

Carrying a notebook and writing down one’s thoughts sounds dreamy. You should have this. Your bike can do this for you. Bring your things and be the happiest rider among the pack of roadies. Be the envy of all. Why would we fight this?

Leah

On Mar 22, 2025, at 9:04 PM, Dan <gril...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you for your interesting posts Leah. I love reading about your thoughts as you grow and tinker your bike collection in ways to suit your preferred way of riding.

I'd like to touch on one aspect of what you've brought up, and share a similar experience. You say you tried to make your Charlie a "Pure Road Bike" with minimal accessories, but that you failed miserably. I can relate. I have a Roadini as of the start of the year. It's built as my Pure Road Bike, one to bring along on rides I take with the roadies I've been riding with lately. So it has fenders yes, but no racks. I've been trying. But I'm so used to being able to carry things on my bike that I feel like I am contorting myself to bring the bare minimum required for a ride: lock, pump, spare tube. With those jammed in I've no room leftover in my small handlebar bag for a coffee, outer layer, or book and pen for when I want to stop at a cafe to write in my journal. I feel like I'm only riding at 90%.

I'm inspired by you. Why fight what we know works well for us? I can see in my future a small front or rear rack, just enough to support a larger handlebar bag or saddlebag. It'll still be my 'road' bike, no doubt. But it will be MY road bike. I shouldn't fight who I am, just because nobody else is carrying a practical-sized bag on their 'road' bikes. Now that I think on it, that's a good philosophy for life in general...

<IMG_0257.jpeg>

On Thursday, 20 March 2025 at 12:53:40 UTC+10:30 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I just want to talk bikes for a little bit. Threads with subjects are great and all, but so is talking shop. And we are about to hit a spate of cold weather here in SW Michigan and I am a little morose after a few days of Pretend Spring. I did get 25 miles in today and Monday, but now I want to talk shop.

I don’t know what you all have been up to, but I have been fighting with and fidgeting with my bikes.

Recently, I went through a great stem swap where I changed over most of my bikes to Faceplater stems. I even put one on my college boys’ big old Clem with Bosco bars. I even used my new torque wrench, and…the bars slipped! So now I have new Albatross bars and stem and shims because Riv believes this 31.8 clamp will grip 25.4 bars better. I have little experience with shims. And what I have learned about them is that they will set you to cussing. You want the bars centered, but then the shims slink out of their spot. When you want to nudge them just a bit, they have bitten into the center of the Albatross bar and you must find a way to knock them loose. Then the whole bar moves and you have to re-center and line up the gaps in shim/clamp.  When you knock the shims loose a few times you realize there are metal shavings on your fingers, which means you are damaging stuff. And every time you decide to adjust the position you have to fight with the shims AND loosen and re-tighten 4 bolts with your torque wrench. I have emailed 2 people about this, badgering them to check my work and say it’s safe. I made peace with the shims being a millimeter uneven because at least the bars are centered. Then I went to wash the metal shavings off my hands.

Shims. In short, I hate them.

During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on its way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see every day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close color match. It’s passable, but sad.

I turned my attention to the mermaid Platypus, which I have no good excuse to have anymore, and noticed the rear tire is flat again. This is because on Monday, I decided I would top off the sealant, and could not be bothered to put the bike in the stand. The clamp on the stand needs more seatpost and I didn’t want to raise my saddle. So I did it with the bike on the kickstand and was never able to recover the seal between rim and tire. I have gotten by with this in the past. Got cocky and have now been brought low. Every week, and you can set your watch by it, I do the walk of shame into the shop. I fling open their door, the cowbell rings, and I announce, “Guys! A terrible thing has happened!” I will go there again tomorrow because a terrible thing has happened -  that seal did not hold and we are back to flat tire and dripping sealant. They are sick of me at this point but they are Michiganders, good folk through and through, and they do not let on. 

Meanwhile, Charlie. I’ve been running away with Charlie on club rides. High winds have really cramped our style. Charlie and I are on a learning curve. I try and find out if the sounds he’s making are benign or malignant. There was a screeching pedal (a terrible thing that happened!) that my shop addressed. But now there is ghost shifting and something whirring when I stand to climb and toss my weight on the drive side of the bike. Charlie had been denied his accoutrements because I tried to make him Pure Road Bike and keep his accessories minimal. We failed miserably and I’ve junked up the bars just like Charlie’s a Platypus. The final piece, his German mirror, arrived today.  I still don’t know if Charlie is any faster than a Platypus. Nothing is fast in these winds. We are out there shredding our thighs, trying to brave winds and get fit for the season with Charlie and his junked-up non-aero bars.

What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop?

Leah

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[Jay]

I like how the thread is developing!

I will throw out a different perspective.  Just a thought I had when reading the latest posts...

Disclaimer: I am not a roadie.  I don't ride with groups of cyclists on road bikes.  They sometimes wiz by me, usually a few say hi.  Their style of riding is not my thing, my inner thoughts are what they're doing is silly (trying to act like pros), but then I calm myself down and say we're all cyclists, they're doing their thing, who am I to judge.

Because you have four bikes, you could make the Charlie as fast as possible, simply to get a different experience than with your other bikes.  It is fun to ride a lighter/faster bike, and even if the gains are marginal, from my experience it feels fun to go fast (most times). Lighter frame and build (check), skinnier tires (but not skinny), a mirror if you need it for safety, a couple of water bottles and you're out the door.  Simple.  If you want to bring additional items, of course you could, but isn't that what the other bikes are for?  Like if you want to stop and make coffee in the woods somewhere, bring a Platy with rack/bag.  It's not that you're grabbing Charlie for 'road' rides with other roadies, you should take whatever bike you want for these rides, depending on how you're feeling and your intentions that day.  I think there is value in keeping this bike different.

What is fun though, is changing the bikes in terms of your intentions with them, over time; even if back and forth, over time.  That's what keeps it interesting!

[Jason Fuller]

I connect with these perspectives about building bikes first and foremost to suit who we are, even when built for purposes that have a well-established "normal" that is perhaps different. My personal spin on this - I have a good variety among my six bikes, but even my 'road bike', which for me is a Hillborne outfitted with drop bars and a front rando rack, must be capable of exploring the woods without fear I'm going to wreck it or feeling too held back by the bike. 

What this ends up looking like is every bike has slightly knobby tires, a sufficiently stout frame, and the fully fendered bikes always have the front one rotated more forward than usual (to clear roots, etc) with a fabric flap to take up the difference. I agree with the need to carry stuff as well, as is obvious below - a comprehensive tool kit, plenty of snacks, a warm layer, extra set of gloves .. it adds up quick.  

This photo is from yesterday's 50 mile road ride; I had no intention of going off-pavement but it always tends to happen and that's how I like it. 

 

[David Ross]

I hate bar shims more than any other component. I finally figured out that the best thing is a swept bar with a BMX stem. I run a steel copy opt of a Crust Ortho on my Gus with a 70mm Paul Stem. It’s not the most aesthetically pleasing setup but the bars absolutely do not move. 

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 10:23 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just want to talk bikes for a little bit. Threads with subjects are great and all, but so is talking shop. And we are about to hit a spate of cold weather here in SW Michigan and I am a little morose after a few days of Pretend Spring. I did get 25 miles in today and Monday, but now I want to talk shop.

I don’t know what you all have been up to, but I have been fighting with and fidgeting with my bikes.

Recently, I went through a great stem swap where I changed over most of my bikes to Faceplater stems. I even put one on my college boys’ big old Clem with Bosco bars. I even used my new torque wrench, and…the bars slipped! So now I have new Albatross bars and stem and shims because Riv believes this 31.8 clamp will grip 25.4 bars better. I have little experience with shims. And what I have learned about them is that they will set you to cussing. You want the bars centered, but then the shims slink out of their spot. When you want to nudge them just a bit, they have bitten into the center of the Albatross bar and you must find a way to knock them loose. Then the whole bar moves and you have to re-center and line up the gaps in shim/clamp.  When you knock the shims loose a few times you realize there are metal shavings on your fingers, which means you are damaging stuff. And every time you decide to adjust the position you have to fight with the shims AND loosen and re-tighten 4 bolts with your torque wrench. I have emailed 2 people about this, badgering them to check my work and say it’s safe. I made peace with the shims being a millimeter uneven because at least the bars are centered. Then I went to wash the metal shavings off my hands.

Shims. In short, I hate them.

During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on its way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see every day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close color match. It’s passable, but sad.

I turned my attention to the mermaid Platypus, which I have no good excuse to have anymore, and noticed the rear tire is flat again. This is because on Monday, I decided I would top off the sealant, and could not be bothered to put the bike in the stand. The clamp on the stand needs more seatpost and I didn’t want to raise my saddle. So I did it with the bike on the kickstand and was never able to recover the seal between rim and tire. I have gotten by with this in the past. Got cocky and have now been brought low. Every week, and you can set your watch by it, I do the walk of shame into the shop. I fling open their door, the cowbell rings, and I announce, “Guys! A terrible thing has happened!” I will go there again tomorrow because a terrible thing has happened -  that seal did not hold and we are back to flat tire and dripping sealant. They are sick of me at this point but they are Michiganders, good folk through and through, and they do not let on. 

Meanwhile, Charlie. I’ve been running away with Charlie on club rides. High winds have really cramped our style. Charlie and I are on a learning curve. I try and find out if the sounds he’s making are benign or malignant. There was a screeching pedal (a terrible thing that happened!) that my shop addressed. But now there is ghost shifting and something whirring when I stand to climb and toss my weight on the drive side of the bike. Charlie had been denied his accoutrements because I tried to make him Pure Road Bike and keep his accessories minimal. We failed miserably and I’ve junked up the bars just like Charlie’s a Platypus. The final piece, his German mirror, arrived today.  I still don’t know if Charlie is any faster than a Platypus. Nothing is fast in these winds. We are out there shredding our thighs, trying to brave winds and get fit for the season with Charlie and his junked-up non-aero bars.

What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop?

Leah

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[Ben Miller]

Jason, nice bike! Looks like a great ride :)

Yeah, to quote Uncle Ronaldo Benedict Ultra Ronnie Romance, "Where are you even going without a bag?" Even Jan says a "performance" bike should be fully outfitted: "[It's] ironic: Even the most exotic sports cars are equipped for driving at night and in the rain." Even though he's focused on going fast on "performance" bicycles, he believes bikes should be equipped with fenders, lights and luggage. 

I live in SF, where it rains infrequently, so I only have 1 bike that remains fully fender'ed. But all my bikes have luggage and lights. My Roadeo is my most road-only focused bike, with STI levers, higher gearing, and 38 mm slicks. It has always had a dynamo hub and a Swift Rando bag (which I don't even think they make anymore?!?), but I can go just as fast on it as I could with my carbon fiber "race" bike that it replaced. That bike would only fit 23 mm tyres and had a tiny little saddlebag from the bare minimum of tools/repairs.

A few years back, I did the Kokopelli Bicycle Relay Race with 3 friends. It was ~530 miles from Moab to St George (It's since been retired, but here is the link: https://kokopellirelay.com/moab-st-george/) I rode my Riv Rambouie for my segments, which was ~150 miles. You need to complete it in under 24 hours. We weren't there to win it, but it does mean you need to average >22 mph to finish, not a slow pace. When I showed up with my Ram, with its leather wrapped handlebars, downtube friction shifters, flat pedals, and (comparatively) giant handlebar bag, the other teams laughed and thought I wasn't serious. But as the race went on, and we showed we could hang, all the jokes stopped and they starting respecting us. Sure we did finish last (My team was the definite goofballs, the rag tag underdogs. But we had waaaay more fun than anyone else). But when we finished, the race organizers admitted they didn't think we would and were clearly impressed that we had. Which to me felt like a win!

Anyways, one of my segments during the Kokopelli ride was a nighttime ride up to the summit pass near Boulder Mt before descending into the town of Boulder, UT. The climb was ~1000 ft and the descent that followed was >3000 ft. It was 2 AM and the moon was nearly full on a cloudless sky at 7000 ft. The ride up was a decent gradient, so I was pretty warm, but the ride down was freezing. To have a bike that I could carry all those extra clothes, plus food and water, and have a dynamo hub meant I didn't need anything, I was on my own. But everyone else needed to have their team to meet them at the summit to provide clothes and a good number of them also had their support vehicle shadow them done the descent to provide additional lighting. I did the whole thing solo, and it was one of the most magical bicycle experiences I have ever had. Just me, my bike, the moon, and the mountain.

Below is a photo from the Kokopelli ride, but during the day when it was pushing 95+ F :) The freezing temps would come later!

[Leah Peterson]

This thread is way more fun than I even imagined it might be! Everyone: I love your stories, reading about your conundrums, your solutions and your suggestions. And I love your photos! 

Turns out, I’m not the only one who just wants to talk shop. I wish we were doing that in my garage with bikes in stands and coffee in hand, but this will do since we can’t have that. 

I so appreciate both perspectives of “oh, just make this bike different” and “what are you even doing without a bag”. 

I tried. 

I really tried to let Charlie run around naked. But it was endlessly distracting to need the things I couldn’t have. The phone mount: I lasted a week without one. When I took my pull I couldn’t see our pace. You are expected to keep a pace on an advertised ride. I needed that phone mount the next week when I made a route for our women’s group for Ride with GPS turn-by-turn directions. You’re supposed to call out “car back” but I had no mirror, so I was bad at that. Ordered the mirror immediately after that ride.

I get mixed responses re: my “road bike.” N asked me, “What makes this a road bike?” And I really didn’t know what to tell her. “Rivendell says it is” came to mind. She walked over, lifted it up, put it down, seeming to decide no way is Charlie a road bike. 

Turns out, the only thing I’ve conceded on Charlie is a rack. He’s got a Bananasax on back. N looked at that sack and said, “How are you gonna carry our stuff?” 

Ben, I loved reading about that ride. Night ride with the moon and mountain = magic. But I wouldn’t have wanted to do it alone. I’ve never heard of a bike relay - so you did your segments all solo? When did you get to hang with your buddies? How does everyone get to their leg of the relay? Very interesting. Kinda wish I was doing one of these because it does sound like a party.

Jason, your bikes are All Adventure All the Time. Where are my spring flower photos? Shouldn’t be too long now!

L

On Mar 23, 2025, at 3:43 PM, Ben Miller <ben.l....@gmail.com> wrote:

Jason, nice bike! Looks like a great ride :)

Yeah, to quote Uncle Ronaldo Benedict Ultra Ronnie Romance, "Where are you even going without a bag?" Even Jan says a "performance" bike should be fully outfitted: "[It's] ironic: Even the most exotic sports cars are equipped for driving at night and in the rain." Even though he's focused on going fast on "performance" bicycles, he believes bikes should be equipped with fenders, lights and luggage. 

I live in SF, where it rains infrequently, so I only have 1 bike that remains fully fender'ed. But all my bikes have luggage and lights. My Roadeo is my most road-only focused bike, with STI levers, higher gearing, and 38 mm slicks. It has always had a dynamo hub and a Swift Rando bag (which I don't even think they make anymore?!?), but I can go just as fast on it as I could with my carbon fiber "race" bike that it replaced. That bike would only fit 23 mm tyres and had a tiny little saddlebag from the bare minimum of tools/repairs.

A few years back, I did the Kokopelli Bicycle Relay Race with 3 friends. It was ~530 miles from Moab to St George (It's since been retired, but here is the link: https://kokopellirelay.com/moab-st-george/) I rode my Riv Rambouie for my segments, which was ~150 miles. You need to complete it in under 24 hours. We weren't there to win it, but it does mean you need to average >22 mph to finish, not a slow pace. When I showed up with my Ram, with its leather wrapped handlebars, downtube friction shifters, flat pedals, and (comparatively) giant handlebar bag, the other teams laughed and thought I wasn't serious. But as the race went on, and we showed we could hang, all the jokes stopped and they starting respecting us. Sure we did finish last (My team was the definite goofballs, the rag tag underdogs. But we had waaaay more fun than anyone else). But when we finished, the race organizers admitted they didn't think we would and were clearly impressed that we had. Which to me felt like a win!

Anyways, one of my segments during the Kokopelli ride was a nighttime ride up to the summit pass near Boulder Mt before descending into the town of Boulder, UT. The climb was ~1000 ft and the descent that followed was >3000 ft. It was 2 AM and the moon was nearly full on a cloudless sky at 7000 ft. The ride up was a decent gradient, so I was pretty warm, but the ride down was freezing. To have a bike that I could carry all those extra clothes, plus food and water, and have a dynamo hub meant I didn't need anything, I was on my own. But everyone else needed to have their team to meet them at the summit to provide clothes and a good number of them also had their support vehicle shadow them done the descent to provide additional lighting. I did the whole thing solo, and it was one of the most magical bicycle experiences I have ever had. Just me, my bike, the moon, and the mountain.

Below is a photo from the Kokopelli ride, but during the day when it was pushing 95+ F :) The freezing temps would come later!

<IMG_1481.JPG>

On Sunday, March 23, 2025 at 11:44:15 AM UTC-7 dros...@gmail.com wrote:

I hate bar shims more than any other component. I finally figured out that the best thing is a swept bar with a BMX stem. I run a steel copy opt of a Crust Ortho on my Gus with a 70mm Paul Stem. It’s not the most aesthetically pleasing setup but the bars absolutely do not move. 

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 10:23 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just want to talk bikes for a little bit. Threads with subjects are great and all, but so is talking shop. And we are about to hit a spate of cold weather here in SW Michigan and I am a little morose after a few days of Pretend Spring. I did get 25 miles in today and Monday, but now I want to talk shop.

I don’t know what you all have been up to, but I have been fighting with and fidgeting with my bikes.

Recently, I went through a great stem swap where I changed over most of my bikes to Faceplater stems. I even put one on my college boys’ big old Clem with Bosco bars. I even used my new torque wrench, and…the bars slipped! So now I have new Albatross bars and stem and shims because Riv believes this 31.8 clamp will grip 25.4 bars better. I have little experience with shims. And what I have learned about them is that they will set you to cussing. You want the bars centered, but then the shims slink out of their spot. When you want to nudge them just a bit, they have bitten into the center of the Albatross bar and you must find a way to knock them loose. Then the whole bar moves and you have to re-center and line up the gaps in shim/clamp.  When you knock the shims loose a few times you realize there are metal shavings on your fingers, which means you are damaging stuff. And every time you decide to adjust the position you have to fight with the shims AND loosen and re-tighten 4 bolts with your torque wrench. I have emailed 2 people about this, badgering them to check my work and say it’s safe. I made peace with the shims being a millimeter uneven because at least the bars are centered. Then I went to wash the metal shavings off my hands.

Shims. In short, I hate them.

During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on its way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see every day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close color match. It’s passable, but sad.

I turned my attention to the mermaid Platypus, which I have no good excuse to have anymore, and noticed the rear tire is flat again. This is because on Monday, I decided I would top off the sealant, and could not be bothered to put the bike in the stand. The clamp on the stand needs more seatpost and I didn’t want to raise my saddle. So I did it with the bike on the kickstand and was never able to recover the seal between rim and tire. I have gotten by with this in the past. Got cocky and have now been brought low. Every week, and you can set your watch by it, I do the walk of shame into the shop. I fling open their door, the cowbell rings, and I announce, “Guys! A terrible thing has happened!” I will go there again tomorrow because a terrible thing has happened -  that seal did not hold and we are back to flat tire and dripping sealant. They are sick of me at this point but they are Michiganders, good folk through and through, and they do not let on. 

Meanwhile, Charlie. I’ve been running away with Charlie on club rides. High winds have really cramped our style. Charlie and I are on a learning curve. I try and find out if the sounds he’s making are benign or malignant. There was a screeching pedal (a terrible thing that happened!) that my shop addressed. But now there is ghost shifting and something whirring when I stand to climb and toss my weight on the drive side of the bike. Charlie had been denied his accoutrements because I tried to make him Pure Road Bike and keep his accessories minimal. We failed miserably and I’ve junked up the bars just like Charlie’s a Platypus. The final piece, his German mirror, arrived today.  I still don’t know if Charlie is any faster than a Platypus. Nothing is fast in these winds. We are out there shredding our thighs, trying to brave winds and get fit for the season with Charlie and his junked-up non-aero bars.

What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop?

Leah

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<IMG_1481.JPG>

[Ted Durant]

On Mar 23, 2025, at 8:50 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ben, I loved reading about that ride. Night ride with the moon and mountain = magic. But I wouldn’t have wanted to do it alone. I’ve never heard of a bike relay - so you did your segments all solo? When did you get to hang with your buddies? How does everyone get to their leg of the relay? Very interesting. Kinda wish I was doing one of these because it does sound like a party.

Leah - if you like the idea of a 24-hour ride but want to stay with a group, you might be interested in doing a flèche, which is a 24-hour team ride. All the teams ride different routes to end at the same place. (Flèche is French for arrow, so the idea is that the routes all converging on one spot look like arrows hitting the bullseye.) Minimum distance is 360km, which is pretty approachable, but you have to keep going for 24 hours, not stopping for more than 2 hours in any one place, and you have to ride 25km in the final two hours. I haven’t done it, yet, but am considering one this year.

Ben - a thousand kudos to your group. I have much less respect for people who do that ride with support. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Jason Fuller]

Those are very practical concessions really - a club ride bike needs either a GPS head unit with maps or a phone mount, and certainly a mirror is pretty important as well. Funny that the other riders have now come to depend on you to carry THEIR stuff - maybe it's someone else's turn to be the mule!  Keeping the racks off Charlie is a good plan, that's a significant weight savings, and there are rack-less bag combinations that will get you plenty of capacity for a fair-weather day out on the bike (EZPZ + Banana?). Having overlap between bikes might seem like a lack of variety at first, but with too little overlap the bike you end up wanting is somewhere between the bikes you have. 

Regarding flower photos - indeed I've started taking them!  My IG stories will slowly be taken over by flower pics for the next eight weeks or so.  I saw the 'Spring has Sprung!' thread exists and is as good a place as any for the continuation of seasonal photo threads so I posted a couple there from yesterday 

[ascpgh]

Ben, that's  a great example of the rewards of sticking to what you know and ignoring unsolicited input of others. I rode my Rambouillet across the country with a Carradice Nelson Longflap and some SKS fenders the day after it arrived. The trio of Serotta riders I was with smirked a bit until they saw the aplomb with which my bike handled the situations and conditions at the edge of the envelope in which we rode. 

Back in my shop days in the Ozarks I had a group of customers who bought MTBs and rode trails any time they could. One was selling his car and old bike on the way to architecture school asked if there was any way that he could buy a new bike on lay-away but take the bike and ride since it would be his only transportation. I went to bat with the owners on his behalf since we'd known him for four years. He chose the red Bridgestone MB-4 and a nice rear rack for a set of Jandd panniers for his travels, commuting and shopping over the next years.

The next couple years that group reunited at Canaan, WV from the places life lead each of them. They met to ride the 24 Hours of Canaan, an endurance mountain bike event as a team. They regaled me with the story of the starting line introductions where the six of them were followed by a shorter red haired guy with a beard, also riding a Bridgestone, the announcer naming as a team but all the names were permutations of John Stamstad. When looking over at him, Stamstad looked back and said "yeah it's all me". He rode solo for 24 hours and lapped the group of friends by the finish. They enjoyed that experience as much as their gathering and ride through the night that year.

Not that long ago I hosted my sister's kids for a week here in this area and we did all sorts of things but when it was time to meet their parents at the halfway point, Louisville, their father (not my sister's husband anymore) said "he wasn't going to be able to do that" and I had to fly the two kids and their stuff to Little Rock via a five hour drive to DC, an overnight with my sister-in-law and an out and back to LR from BWI. 

My niece and nephew's dad was dismissive, at best, of the effort and expense I went through to get them home on time and I had three hours to stew in the airport after carrying all their luggage out to extended parking on the 100° afternoon.

I got in the ticketing line to get my boarding pass and as I stood there I heard my name yelled. Not registering it at first since I hadn't lived or frequented the area in a decade, I looked around when I heard it again and in the queue at another airline's counter was that architecture student, Blake. He came over and first thing said while reaching out his hand and shaking mine was "Thank you for helping me get that Bridgestone, it got me through school in more ways than you'll imagine." He'd graduated, took a job in Denver, rode extensively in the front range, raced and was a CO Masters MTB champ. His daughter and he were taking long road rides together and his wife couldn't be happier. 

Stay true and it all plays out in the end.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Leah Peterson]

In Bike Life Lately over here, I decided I just had to get out in the 30 degree weather because there was SUN and surely that would make up for the cold. But I got distracted. I stared at the 4 bikes I now have, paralyzed by choice. I settled on the purple My Little Platy.

But FIRST! Why not top off the sealant, I thought. You guys. When I say it was just a passing thought that I don clear Oakleys for this task I am not kidding. I grabbed my glasses and boy, was I glad. As I was filling the rear tire, the sealant was refusing to leave the bottle and go into the tire. I stuck a thing in the valve to break up the goop that was blocking and the air came rushing out with a geyser of sealant. 

On my glasses, my face, in my hair and all over my new L.L. Bean down jacket. 

The mail lady chose this moment to drive up and thank me for the new mailbox (the snowplow had destroyed the other). There is no telling what she thought, but whatever it was, she did not say it. 

After laundering my coat and re-washing my hair and face, I finally rode my bike.

I don’t care what you haters say though, I still love tubeless.

Leah

On Mar 24, 2025, at 9:14 AM, ascpgh <asc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ben, that's  a great example of the rewards of sticking to what you know and ignoring unsolicited input of others. I rode my Rambouillet across the country with a Carradice Nelson Longflap and some SKS fenders the day after it arrived. The trio of Serotta riders I was with smirked a bit until they saw the aplomb with which my bike handled the situations and conditions at the edge of the envelope in which we rode. 

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[Jason Fuller]

Ahh yes, I've been there, but never had to interact with someone who was not privy to what happened before I could clean up. That one is all you. It really doesn't take very much residual pressure in the tire to do this, either.  

As mechanically apt as I am I still don't really know how much and how often to add sealant. I have to say though, once the tire seems happy it seems to stay happy even with some neglect. I guess until it doesn't. 

Good to see you getting out and it's always nice to see the Purple Platy out and about. You don't use strava / ridewithgps / komoot for logging rides do you?  I feel like I've asked this before. For me I don't care about all the various metrics that cater towards "athletes" but I love tracking mileage for myself and each bike.  I would totally be sleuthing to find out how many miles each Riv has in your stable on an ongoing basis. 

[Bikie#4646]

Andy Cheatham, Just sayin', someone should put your story in print. (Adventure Cycling?) 

And, I too have fond memories of Davis, WVa and racing the Canaan Mtn. Series back in the mid-to-late 1980's. 

Paul Germain

Midlothian, Va.

[Leah Peterson]

Jason, shockingly little pressure! Was not expecting that kind of blowback! 

Analog got me started on tubeless and they would do 4 oz of Orange Seal Endurance per tire, every 6 months, I think. But everyone else in the industry seems to top off their sealant more often. So I go like every 4-5 months, just to be safe. When I lived in Vegas I did have the sealant dry up on me one time and the tire went flat.

I log my rides using my Apple Watch. It works great for keeping track of mileage but it does not track mileage according to bike. And that bothers me. Pam has her cycling computer and knows exactly how many miles she gets every year on her Betty, but with 4 in the rotation, I can’t see keeping up batteries on all their cyclometers. Only the raspberry bike has one. I do have Ride with GPS and am constantly frustrated with it. It is, admittedly, new to me though. I planned a ride around the lake with some of my bike club friends and it took us on wrong turns more that once and then barked at me the whole time. Do you use it? I’ve never gotten on Strava because it intimidates me. People will be looking in on me and that seems weird. I might be wrong, since I’ve never actually used it!

But you raise a great point about mileage, because 4 bikes is a lot of bikes and you can only ride one at a time, and everyone is not  getting equal miles in the group. I can already tell you Charlie will get the lion’s share of mileage because I ride club rides Monday, Tuesday and Friday. That’s a minimum of 75 miles right there. Wednesday is the night ride with the rabble rousers and that requires the fat-tired purple Platy. The raspberry bike has been converted to errands/shopping/fun and the mermaid Platy is now out of a job. That one will likely sit. But should I sell it? It is from the first generation and has the cool brazing in the back. And it’s a great Guest Bike for visitors. But it is now redundant, this is true.

Which bike is getting the most mileage these days, Jason? Sam? Are you using Strava or Ride with GPS?

L

On Mar 26, 2025, at 10:53 PM, Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahh yes, I've been there, but never had to interact with someone who was not privy to what happened before I could clean up. That one is all you. It really doesn't take very much residual pressure in the tire to do this, either.  

As mechanically apt as I am I still don't really know how much and how often to add sealant. I have to say though, once the tire seems happy it seems to stay happy even with some neglect. I guess until it doesn't. 

Good to see you getting out and it's always nice to see the Purple Platy out and about. You don't use strava / ridewithgps / komoot for logging rides do you?  I feel like I've asked this before. For me I don't care about all the various metrics that cater towards "athletes" but I love tracking mileage for myself and each bike.  I would totally be sleuthing to find out how many miles each Riv has in your stable on an ongoing basis. 

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[Ryan]

Leah..I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell the mermaid...I almost feel like I would have left the raspberry as is...because you know it'll work on club rides and it could be a backup if Charlie is in the shop for some reason...but that mermaid is such a unique bike, it should be kept for its original purpose....although now that you have changed everything over, that ship has sailed

Ryan who resists the idea of selling her Rivendells even though she's not riding them as much as she should

[Johnny Alien]

I went tubeless on my Clem because the rims and tires supported that and the tales of no flats was just too great a siren call to ignore. I found out that I dislike it. There are fantastic tubes now that are both extremely light and extremely durable. I rarely flat so I am not sure why I ever stressed. Went back to tubes and have been loving it. No more tubeless for me

[Kim H.]

My personal take on going tubeless is it is more bother than it worth. If I get a flat, I will take the time to repair it and be on my merry way. I always carry a spare butyl inner tube. I have not had a flat tire since last year riding on pavement.

Kim Hetzel.

[James McGregor]

What tubes are you using?  Latex?  I've had a couple of trail rides ruined by pinched flats after airing down, so I'm looking into tubeless, but between tire selection, tire/rim interface, the mess, topping off, etc, it sounds more and more like a hassle.

James in NJ

[Eric Daume]

I'm the same way with tubeless. I'm an experienced rider, so it almost feels like peer pressure that I should be using tubeless. But every time I try it, it's much more hassle than it's worth. I'd rather deal with my typical flat or two per year (which are made more difficult now due to tubeless ready rims, yuck)

Eric

who probably just cursed himself to a flat, in 

Plain City, OH

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2025 at 2:18 AM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I log my rides using my Apple Watch. It works great for keeping track of mileage but it does not track mileage according to bike. And that bothers me. Pam has her cycling computer and knows exactly how many miles she gets every year on her Betty, but with 4 in the rotation, I can’t see keeping up batteries on all their cyclometers. Only the raspberry bike has one. I do have Ride with GPS and am constantly frustrated with it. It is, admittedly, new to me though. I planned a ride around the lake with some of my bike club friends and it took us on wrong turns more that once and then barked at me the whole time. Do you use it? I’ve never gotten on Strava because it intimidates me. People will be looking in on me and that seems weird. I might be wrong, since I’ve never actually used it!

The way I track mileage per bike is using Strava linked to a Garmin bike computer. After the ride, the Garmin uploads to Garmin Connect (which lets you track mileage per bike, but since they debuted the feature after Strava I've stayed with Strava), which then syncs to Strava which lets you track which equipment you used on the activity. You can keep all your rides private if you like and just make the ones you want public viewable by all. (I do this because my CEO follows me on Strava so I don't publish the mid day escapes --- he's a cool guy, but I don't have to rub it in his face :-)

 

As for tubeless, I've rented 3 bikes with tubeless, one from the Santa Cruz factory, one from Whistler, and one time from another private shop at Whistler resort. 2 times out of 3 I ended up with a flat that the sealant didn't work on, and ended up with me riding to the shop to get it fixed because the tubeless tire was so stuck onto the rim I couldn't get it off with tire levers. One time the tubeless tire had an insert so I just rode it back to the shop (the shop was kind enough to refund me the day's rental and fixed it up so I could keep riding after lunch), the other time I was stuck pumping up the tire every 3 miles (no refund, and the mechanic was shocked that the flat was unrepairable). Both experiences convinced me that if I rode tubeless on my personal bikes someday I'll be stuck hiking 20 miles out of the wilderness with an unrepairable flat.

[Jason Fuller]

Leah, regarding tracking apps - I have RidewithGPS too and while I like it for designing routes, I find Strava way easier to use for recording rides - also, I'm not sure how to track per bike in RWGPS if it's even possible?  In Strava, you have to add bikes (err, "gear") in the browser version and then you can select it when you upload your ride. The free version is totally find, I can't see any reason to use paid for recreational use except to support them financially.  The Bombadil has been getting more miles than the Hillborne over the past while but the Hillborne still leads in total miles (a little over 12,000 km vs 8500km); Bombadil is definitely my "grab and go" choice when I don't want to think about it, it's ready for anything! 

[Drew Fitchette]

I just spent the last two nights and this morning before work dialing in my Clem, and took it out for a ride on my lunch break today only to find a creak happening somewhere around the bottom bracket/crank... which had me laughing at how you can feel like things are perfectly in place only to have to go back to the repair stand.

Really love the ride on this 59 Clem though, what a huge contrast it is to the 54 Appaloosa. Long and luxurious like riding a surfboard, and the Shwalbe G One's(with tubes!) roll over everything. Has me wondering if I should put swept back bars on the Appa Again... or keep the Bullmoose for more variety. 

[Kim H.]

Drew,

I thank you for sharing your first experience riding your new Clem.

I smiled in reading your enthusiasm in spending the last two nights and one morning before work dialing in your Clem.

"Riding like a surfboard" is a very fine way to explain how it rides. Yes, the Clem rolls over most everything with big tires. When I go off road, I use my SIMWORKS HOMAGE 55mm tires.

I would love to see close up pictures of your orange Clem.

Ride on !

Kim Hetzel

PNW.

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[Kat]

Grant weighed in on today's BikeSnobNYC post:

"Not to brag, but in the '70s thru about the early '80s I used to get three flats a month. (I rode the then-popular Specialized Touring II tires, and a fresh rear one wore out in 600 miles.) I always patched, never tossed a tube unless it was slashed, and that's how I became good at flat repair. TODAY'S tires are relatively flat-resistant except agains nails and goatheads, and many of today's riders are wealthy tech titans (no offense to many of them) who don't know how to fix flats because they're too rich to bother and they flat so rarely, and they don't want to take the time or demean suffer the stress of sitting on the side of the road getting blackish hands and still failing. I'm one of the few, or maybe the only one at RBW who hasn't tried tubeless. I've seen every unique-to-tubeless problem many times---failure to seal, dried sealant, fits so tight that cussing ensues. Typically, the guy will give them a second chance, but not a third, and I think we're all on tubes again. A TubelessCompatible rim + TC tire with an inner tube is really hard to put on or take off, YouTube tips or not. It's hard to find non-TC tires or rims, but they're out there. A normal rim with TC tire is fine, a TC rim with normal tire is fine, but both makes it hard. Sorry so long."

After this informative discussion I for one am happy to stick to tubes... although I have the exact setup Grant describes above, TC rims and TC tyres with tubes, which I am dreading removing when the time comes.

Kat

[Dan]

Hey Leah,

After our discussion here I went down to my favourite local bike shop today and used a voucher I received for my birthday to pick myself up this Swift Catalyst handlebar bag. 

It fits perfectly between the drops of my Roadini and has a very welcome extra capacity over the bag I was previously using. I don’t notice it while riding either, even with a heavy lock inside. And the colour is, I think, perfect!

Pictured behind my bike is my friend’s Soma. With a front and rear basket on his bike, he’s the one to carry everyone’s spare gear or come to the rescue with an extra litre of water where someone needs it! 😜

Thanks again for the inspiration, Leah, Riv and everyone here in the community. 

[Cormac O'Keeffe]

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the recommendation on the bag, it looks pretty nice. However, what really caught by eye was the cable hanger on your friend's bike!

[Brian Turner]

Dan, that’s an interesting Buena Vista cockpit setup!

[Drew Fitchette]

Thanks Kim! The guy who sold me this Clem had upgraded the 34/24 to a triple with a 44 ring instead of the chain guard, and a new 11-36 cassette in the back. He also put fresh Schwalbe G-One All Around tires on, and left a well loved Brooks b17 carved on the bike. It also came with the nifty frame bag from 22 by 9.

The only things I've swapped from the Stock Clem was putting on some XT V brakes and Levers from the parts bin, some MKS Bear Trap pedals, and swapping the Sunrace Rear Derailleur and trigger shifter for a Microshift Marvo and upside down Microshift Thumbie. I also threw a crane bell, VO Mojave Cage, some Blue Lug Koma lights and a reflector triangle on it. 

+1 for bags on bikes Dan, I've got a larger handlebar bag than this one that I plan to have live on the Clem.

[Kim H.]

@Drew,

You are more than welcome.

I thank you for a very good close-up picture of your orange Clem.

Those Schwalbe G-One All Around tires look real nice and very capable of rolling over most anything that you may encounter on the trail. Do you have a lot of hilly terrain where you live ?

Your nifty frame bag is that custom made by a company called 2 by 9  ?

Do you have a web link ?

The orange MKS Bear Trap pedals are an excellent matching touch complimenting the color of your frameset.

You are looking good. I thank you for sharing.

Kim Hetzel 

...experiencing a lot more warmer weather with light spring rain here in the PNW.  I love the increase of the daylight hours.

[Drew Fitchette]

Hey Kim,

Atlanta is hillier than one might imagine, and there's lots of trails to explore between here and Athens. The wide range gearing and big tires are very useful! My Appa has RH 48mm tires and with how poorly some of the roads are maintained here I'd not go much smaller than 40mm tires in general for maximum comfort. These Schwalbe tires are really nice and plush, not surprised that Will, Roman, and Grant like them so much. 

Upon doing some research it looks like 22 by 9 was made for Understory in Oakland. Doesn't look like they've still got/stock them but you might be able to reach out to find out who made them. I also have a friend in town here who runs a bike bag company called The Spindle who does custom frame bags if you want something specific. The owner Ezz is a total sweetie and a good bud. 

- Drew ...who is itching to get the Clem back out today for a ride. 

[aeroperf]

Also in Atlanta.  I put Schwalbe G-Ones (size 42) on my wife’s 650b Platypus.
She really loves them, even if she doesn’t usually go off on dirt.

[Kim H.]

Hello Drew,

I have never been to Atlanta, Georgia. Therefore, I am all ears to listen what the physical geography is all about. I never thought the terrain would be so full of hills. 

Where I live here outside of the state capital of Olympia in Washington state, there are alot of hills, valleys and mountains to answer to with a lot of evergreen forests and deciduous trees close by to explore. There are occasions that I place my Clem on top of my car and travel to ride off road. My favorite place is the Willapa Hills Trail. It runs 56 miles between Chehalis and South Bend. I switch out my 43's for the 55’s to ride out there.

I thank you for your information about the framebag being custom made and referring me to your friend's company The Spindle. I will place this on  the back burner for now and let it simmer for a while in thought. 

Wishing you another joyous ride on your orange 🍊 Clem. 

Kim Hetzel. 

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[Kim H.]

What make and model seat does your wife have on her Platypus?

Kim Hetzel. 

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[Dorothy C]

Kim

It looks like a Serfas E-gel

[Kim H.]

Thank you, Dorothy. 

Kim Hetzel. 

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[aeroperf]

Dorothy has it right.  A Serfas E-gel.

She wanted a basket, so that's a repurposed Nantucket pannier.

[Kim H.]

Thank you,aeroperf

Kim Hetzel.

On Fri, Mar 28, 2025 at 3:57 PM 'aeroperf' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dorothy has it right.  A Serfas E-gel.

She wanted a basket, so that's a repurposed Nantucket pannier.

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[Jay]

My bike life this morning involved cleaning out and remounting a tubeless tire.

I had noticed that my front tire sounded like there was a bag of sand tumbling around within it as the tire started to slow down, or just slowly moving the bike around in my basement.  I figured it was dry sealant.  It was a year since it was mounted.  I added some sealant once since.

The bead came off very easily, I collected the dried up muc-off sealant and threw it in the trash  I added some fresh sealant and tried to remount the tire.  The sidewall on this Sim Works tire is quite flexible so air would escape out of the space between the tire and rim.  I got out my air chamber, blasted it, several times, no luck.  I then had to pull the bead over onto the 'shelf'; I did this several times alternating this and pumping/releasing the air chamber.  After about 30 minutes of doing this, it worked.  But good grief!  All that to get rid of a minor sound, that had no negative impact on anything, or me.  Lesson learned though!  Tires stay mounted until ready to replace them.  Add sealant through the valve with core removed (how I usually do it).

That was my shop-talk for today.  A day I would rather be riding, but freezing rain, followed by rain, then as the temp warms, high winds, means no rides for a few days :-(

[Leah Peterson]

Jay - out of curiosity , what sealant do you use? I’ve had my tubeless tires for years now and I’ve never had the sound or feel of muck rolling around in them. Analog started me on tubeless and they said Orange Seal Endurance and nothing else will do. So far, they have been right. I even asked at the shop if they might clean up the tires during a tune up and they told me they have really not found goo-balls rolling around in the tire to be an issue. So, I’m wondering if you changed sealant if maybe this would cease?

On Mar 30, 2025, at 1:55 PM, Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

My bike life this morning involved cleaning out and remounting a tubeless tire.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/df5e90bd-8c50-4ea8-8592-ca4d97d4ac7bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Jay]

Hi Leah - it's muc-off.  Wouldn't have been my choice, but the guy who built the wheels mounted the tires for me and used muc-off.  It's been fine, and this 'sand' effect isn't really bad.  These weren't the goo-balls I've heard happen with Stan's, looked more like someone sharpened about a hundred pencils and threw the shavings in my tire (pink pencils!).  When I change the tires, likely next year, I'm going to use Orange-seal.  I do ride this bike in -10C temperatures, so maybe that contributed to this flaking off of the sealant?  So far, just the front tire.

[Patrick Moore]

Orange Seal Endurance dries into a skin, thick or thin, on the inside of the casing, not the Stan’s rubber octopuses. If the OS Endurance skin is thick and well distributed enough it will protect against thorn flats by itself even though the sealant is entirely dried out.

[Patrick Moore]

Is helicopter tape easy to remove after months or years on a frame? I’ve used other types of tape for frame protection but after a few months the layers coalesce into a solid lump and the tape is very hard to remove.

I’d like to find a tape that protects the paint and remains securely in place but that, after a few months, is still easy to peel off. Does helicopter tape fit this bill? 

[I’ve devised a QR system to switch the 1999 gofast between the main Phil Dingle wheel and SA 2-speed fixed IGH wheels using a strongly indexed BES, a suitable length of cable + housing, plastic “spring” housing clips, and an old chainstay derailleur cable housing stop clamped to the top of the right seatstay. It’s for the last that I’d like a sturdy but easy-to-remove protective tape. This avoids having to clamp both the 1" OEM top tube quadrant shifter and cable roller to 1 1/8” frame tubes, which can be done but it’s finicky.]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:04 PM Kim H. <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Leah,

As mentioned from Piaw Na using helicopter tape to protect your frame set, I second this. I have purchased a 30ft roll of this tape a couple of times.  There is enough to cover your whole bicycle with some left over for those areas that you may have forgotten. I highly recommend it. The tape will not pull off the decals on your bike.  I purchased it through AMAZON:

https://www.amazon.com/ISC-Racers-Tape-HT2308-Helicopter-OG/dp/B000O65W9Y/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.buPLsr2A8kh-Z7-LkH5V-7V73ci-XePAKKiJp09d30HjiyKhljNdUz_Px5zrCLLlmLyGlhLcfAQeOhFIcmBYOAenJ0OCNwR9LH5hPtHN2PqauT_2UgKUcES8RhF_Ih5R7akLSWeMWAJ_BmaFZ1yNLXUem5W_AawhhW59jPRHcNc9jKGmUmnmfQv7ho_ppe3nLV8N_h6NICTV3g2QBzaBx875nc-qRPY3yyPY4FrUh8M.pHNjEpAjru8kRd9aIqnyEFhTWagYpGbaxZZfbWbP0nU&dib_tag=se&keywords=helicopter+tape&qid=1742529398&sr=8-6

Kim Hetzel.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I had no problem removing and replacing this tape after 1 year. https://amzn.to/43AiGOq

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[Patrick Moore]

Good to know; thanks. I expect that the clear rack protector tape that Tubus sells in pre-cut pieces is helicopter tape and I’ll use some of that for the housing stop in question.

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[Leah Peterson]

Good morning bike friends. This email comes to you from a downtown coffee shop, because it is my only possibility of having any coffee, as we have been without power since Sunday. It is now Tuesday. I got dressed in the dark, and you should see my outfit. We won’t talk about my hair. Don’t feel sorry for me, people died in the storm that blew through the whole state of Michigan, and there is hope we will have heat and power today at some point.

Because of this mess, bike life has been halted a bit. BUT yesterday was New Bike Day for my husband. He got a nasty e-bike, all matte black and therefore kind of ugly. We met at the shop to pick it up. My #1 Favorite Bike Mechanic In All the World, M, quipped, “It’s just like one of your bikes, huh, Leah?” I knew it was a joke but I was offended anyway. “Well, it does have fenders,” I conceded. 

It was so cold yesterday that we did not do a ride, and it will be even colder today. Charlie and I are still in love and I miss him and we need to run away together and Wednesday would be the day for that, except they are forecasting another, more severe storm than the one that hit on Sunday. So we will see. Here is Charlie, he is yummy, try not to swoon, he does do that to people:

My husband’s plans for the e-bike are to take it to Chicago and Detroit on Amtrak and then do things in the city, getting around by using the bike. He does not want to ride for the pleasure of riding. But maybe I can lure him into some of my more rural adventures. 

My son wants his College Clem back. He is a freshman and loved getting around on that Clem first semester. It has been wintering at our house and I think I will take it to him Thursday after the storm has blown through. Over the winter I got him new Velocity Cliffhanger wheels with Gravel King tires and dyno! I changed his gearing so it is higher now. WHY does Riv put such low gearing on the big Clems? He’s got that new Faceplater stem with new Albatross bars and shims. I have no idea how he will feel about that. He probably won’t notice any of the changes I made at ALL. But I will sleep better knowing he has lights since his Clem is his car. He once said to me, “Mom, it’s FINE. I can see, campus is lit up pretty well.” 

I threw up my hands, “Yes, but the cars need to see YOU!” 

“Oh,” he said. 

I hope lots of you are having better weather than we Michiganders and that you are throwing a leg over a romantic Rivendell of some sort, pedaling through flower-infused scenery. Thanks for talking shop with me on this thread!

L

On Mar 31, 2025, at 7:32 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Drew Fitchette]

Aw, Leah. That's such a pain! Glad to hear y'all are alright!

I had the pleasure of meeting up with part of the Atlanta based contingent of the Owners Bunch over the weekend at a local bike swap. Rich, Tom, David, Will, George and I got to check out each others bikes and talk about riding life. It sounds like there's an appetite for a meetup/ride this summer at some point, so folks wanting to make the trip are more than welcome to join in(details to come)! I only snapped a couple photos of bikes on the rack(Doh!), you can see Will's giant Roscoe, and Tom's amazing Saluki prototype next to my Appa. Apologies to David's beautiful Appa and Rich's killer Sam! I'll get better photos when we all meet up again this summer!

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Leah! 

I'm sorry I've sent you all the crazy weather from California whilst still having it here, too. I rode my romantic Rivendell on a lovely Sunday, it's been raining like heck ever since. Hopefully you have power and we have sun soon. Then we ride! 

Joe Bernard 

Soaking in Clearlake 

[Piaw Na]

WHY does Riv put such low gearing on the big Clems? 

One visit to Walnut Creek to climb Diablo will suffice to enlighten you on the answer to that question.

 

[Leah Peterson]

Piaw, 

Do only tall people on 59 and 64 Clems ride Mount Diablo? Enlighten me.

On Apr 1, 2025, at 12:12 PM, Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:



WHY does Riv put such low gearing on the big Clems? 

One visit to Walnut Creek to climb Diablo will suffice to enlighten you on the answer to that question.

 

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 9:45 AM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Piaw, 

Do only tall people on 59 and 64 Clems ride Mount Diablo? Enlighten me.

Tall people tend to be heavier which translates to a lower power to weight ratio. They also tend to have more damage to their joints if they're heavier. But I suspect that many short people would also pray for lower gears when they attempt Diablo. To paraphrase what John Finley Scott wrote about Sonora Pass, this is where 42x21 drivetrains pray for chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings. 

[Leah Peterson]

Sounds largely speculative.

These bikes are shipped all around the world. People use them as commuters and shoppers and sometimes use them as hillibikes. Very few of them will ever ascend Mount Diablo. No matter, I will just email and ask the source himself and then you’ll know for sure.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 1, 2025, at 12:49 PM, Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Drew Fitchette]

Leah, I'd love to hear what you find out. 

My clem has a triple on it, as the previous owner swapped the chain guard for a 44. 

After riding around the neighborhood and the light trails near my house I can't imagine a 34/24 satisfying my needs around town. 

- Drew... whose bottom bracket is still creaking.

[Bill Lindsay]

Leah is going to ask Will why small complete Clems come with a 38T big ring, while big Clems come with a 34T big ring.  

Will is going to answer Leah that they come that way because big Clems have bigger wheels than small Clems.  Bigger wheels make all the gears higher.  That's why.  

The highest gear on a small Clem is 93 inches.  The highest gear on a big Clem is 89 inches.  Pedaling that top end gear at a moderate spin of 110RPM will get you up to 30MPH.  If your twiddling about town requires you to have gearing to get you way above 30MPH, then you are a lot faster town-twiddler than I am.  My town twiddling is in the 12-15MPH range, and I never use a 90 inch gear unless I'm rolling fast down hill and can't be satisfied with coasting.  

More likely, this comes down to the spinners vs the mashers.  While 110RPM is a perfectly normal moderate spin for me, many of the masher-set freak out at 60RPM that they are pedaling way too fast.  If you are a dyed in the wool masher, a 90-inch top gear probably isn't high enough.  Some mashers brag about how they are perfectly content at 30RPM or lower.  The masher-types likely would disapprove of the stock gearing on Rivendell completes.  

A 44x11 on a 700c x FAT rear wheel should be good to allow you to pedal up to and above 40MPH.  It takes a long and steep descent to get me above 40MPH.  I would think a grocery-run-Clem would be a bit scary going a lot faster than 40MPH

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Kim H.]

@Drew,

You state that your BB is still creaking ?

Perhaps, do you think it would be a good idea to take a look at it by breaking down the crankset and removing the BB  ?

Kim Hetzel. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d11774b1-0dc7-4861-9c73-ef87f3217034n%40googlegroups.com.

[Drew Fitchette]

Billl, thank you for that. Totally makes sense!

I certainly am not riding much in my 44x11, if at all. I was spinning my 34x11 out on some downhills but Certainly won't be needing to go 40mph! 

Kim, I definitely need to take it all apart and have a look. I fortunately spent the weekend riding my other bike with friends and unfortunately fixing a broken oven... not as fun as working on the Clem. Hoping to get to it this afternoon/tomorrow!

[Ben Miller]

"at a moderate spin of 110RPM" Bill, is that an April Fool's joke? I don't consider myself a masher, but to me a "moderate spin" is much lower than that. My preferred cadence is closer to 90 RPM :)

Anyways, everything else you said is sound logic in terms of 38T x 29" wheels vs 34T x 27.5" and probably not needing to zip around town at more than 25 mph. But... a 10T gap on a double seems like too close of a step to me :)

[Kim H.]

@Drew,

I am glad to hear that you have plans to take apart your bike and find out what is going on with your creaking noise is in your BB soon.

Kim Hetzel. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/58898002-7beb-4b79-918c-90891cabaeb1n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

My brilliant theory is it's some kinda "that's what ends up on them in Taiwan" supply issue. 

Joe "has theories" Bernard 

[Bill Lindsay]

No, that is not an April Fool's Joke.  110RPM is a spin, but a do-able spin for a spinner, and I consider myself a spinner

90-110 is pretty well established as the range that is most efficient.  When I do my gear calculations for single speed and other low-gear-count builds, I calculate how fast I'll be going at 60RPM and how fast I'll be going at 110RPM.  So, for example, my RoadUno has two gears: 42 inches and 67 inches.  My low gear will go 7MPH at 60RPM.  My high gear will go 22MPH at 110RPM.  So that bike is good for speeds in between 7MPH and 22MPH.  

When people tell me they can't (or don't want to) ride at 110RPM I tend to believe them.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Doug H.]

Bill and Leah,

I often wondered the same and that explanation makes perfect sense. Thank you Bill.

Doug

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 11:44 AM Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

No, that is not an April Fool's Joke.  110RPM is a spin, but a do-able spin for a spinner, and I consider myself a spinner

90-110 is pretty well established as the range that is most efficient.  When I do my gear calculations for single speed and other low-gear-count builds, I calculate how fast I'll be going at 60RPM and how fast I'll be going at 110RPM.  So, for example, my RoadUno has two gears: 42 inches and 67 inches.  My low gear will go 7MPH at 60RPM.  My high gear will go 22MPH at 110RPM.  So that bike is good for speeds in between 7MPH and 22MPH.  

The book "Effective Cycling" recommended that you target 100rpm because traffic, scenery, and other distractions would cause your cadence to drop to around 80-90 in practice. On the tandem with the 9 year old, we've gone as high as 130rpm because our top gear is 38x11 and occasionally need to stay in a draft with a fast group on level ground.

My top speed ever on a tandem was 65mph. But we didn't need to pedal at that speed. 

[Leah Peterson]



As it turns out, Bill is right. 

I went right to Grant. Bigger wheels make gears higher. 

Also, Grant explained that the trad gear inches chart doesn’t account for wheel size, so he isn’t a fan. Different riders will want different gears and that’s easily changeable, so holler if you wanna change them! The big Clem’s gearing is adequate for most things except road rides, which is kinda what we were doing with the College Clem when we found it lacking.

Now we know. We are enlightened.

Leah

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a0aca015-1e17-472e-88b6-4fb4c6100777n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ted Durant]

On Apr 1, 2025, at 1:44 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

No, that is not an April Fool's Joke.  110RPM is a spin, but a do-able spin for a spinner, and I consider myself a spinner

90-110 is pretty well established as the range that is most efficient.  When I do my gear calculations for single speed and other low-gear-count builds, I calculate how fast I'll be going at 60RPM and how fast I'll be going at 110RPM.  So, for example, my RoadUno has two gears: 42 inches and 67 inches.  My low gear will go 7MPH at 60RPM.  My high gear will go 22MPH at 110RPM.  So that bike is good for speeds in between 7MPH and 22MPH.  

When people tell me they can't (or don't want to) ride at 110RPM I tend to believe them.  

Well, according to Grant, pretty much nobody on a Rivendell should be riding at a cadence of 90rpm. According to science, however, everybody has their own preferred cadence, and the cadence that is optimal for them (meaning most efficient power delivery) is rarely far from their preferred cadence. I’ve not seen any science that shows 90-110 is the most efficient. 

I do the same as Bill with my gear charts, except I use 75-100rpm, with a mid-point of 87. That’s about a 15% difference between the mid-point and the end-points, which is a change in cadence that I find meaningful but not disruptive. Thus, I look for 15% differences between cogs as ideal for me. My preferred gear chart metric is kph @ 87rpm. 

My personal observations are:

- I can spin fine at 120rpm (in sneakers on Clem pedals, no less) but I prefer not to spin that fast

- I can loaf along fine at 60 rpm, but I prefer not to go that slow unless I’m cruising down hill or down wind

- very often on a long ride if I have a down hill or down wind section I will ride at a low cadence to rest my legs but keep them moving

- level of effort makes a gigantic difference - the harder I’m riding, the more important it is to keep my cadence in a narrow range

- related to that - up hill (or up wind) vs down hill makes a gigantic difference - when you are working against gravity (or a big head wind) every time your foot speed slows and you then have to speed it up again, the speeding up again costs energy. “Pedaling squares” is what us old timers call it. As cadence slows it becomes more difficult to maintain a constant angular velocity; your cranks speed up in the power part and slow down in the dead spots. All that acceleration and deceleration is wasted energy. I find that it gets harder to maintain constant foot motion as cadence drops below 75; and below 60, if there’s any significant drag, it’s almost impossible _for me_ (I can’t emphasize enough… for me!). 

- Power = torque * angular velocity. I have skinny, weak legs, so don’t generate anywhere near as much torque at the BB as others. I have to make up for that with angular velocity. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Ted Durant]

On Apr 1, 2025, at 2:11 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also, Grant explained that the trad gear inches chart doesn’t account for wheel size, so he isn’t a fan.

I’d be surprised if that’s really what Grant said, as it’s not true. All gear inches charts make an assumption about wheel diameter (or radius). Wheel diameter is a function of both the rim size and the tire size. What might be true is that the assumed wheel diameter for the chart isn’t the same wheel diameter on your bike. The only gear chart that would not account for wheel size would be simple ratios. (e.g. 52x13 = 4.0:1)

[Patrick Moore]

I expect that Grant was referring to the standard old-fashioned gear charts calculated against a “27” wheel.” 

--

[Leah Peterson]

Patrick, I think so. Here’s the commentary on gear charts from Riv. I think Grant amended the chart a bit, as seen in this link…

Does this make more sense, Ted?

On Apr 1, 2025, at 4:36 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[DTL]

https://www.bikecalc.com/archives/gear-inches.html 

Here you input the Rim size and tire size.

34x12 with a 55mm 29er wheel is 82 inches, but a 45mm tires changes it to 79 inches

This has made me realise that I spend MOST of my time riding 70-60 gear inches.

[Ted Durant]

On Apr 1, 2025, at 4:02 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick, I think so. Here’s the commentary on gear charts from Riv. I think Grant amended the chart a bit, as seen in this link…

Does this make more sense, Ted?

Well, it demonstrates that, as I and others surmised, Grant isn’t faulting gear inch charts for failing to take into account wheel size. He states quite clearly that the gear inch chart assumes 27” wheels, and that his “yards moved per revolution” chart is based on 700x40C, which is exactly 702mm = 27.638 in. That may or may not be more relevant to an individual use case.

His main point is that “gear inches” isn’t meaningful and he suggests “yards moved per revolution” is. I don’t find his metric to be any more useful than gear inches; they are both somewhat abstract. A variation on Grant’s metric that I would find more meaningful would be the equivalent of walking/running stride length. That would be the distance moved with each half revolution, which would be better measured in feet than yards. This could yield, IMHO, a slight improvement over Sheldon Brown’s Gain Ratio, using ratio of distance moved per half revolution to a person’s walking stride length. Let’s call it “Stride Ratio”. So, a value of “3.1” would mean you are moving 3.1x farther with each “stride” (push of a pedal) on the bike than you would if you were walking.  A value <1 would suggest you might want to walk, though that would have to take into account how the slope of the ground would alter your stride length and differences between cycling cadence and walking cadence.

I’m with Bill on this …. Just tell me how fast I’m moving at a given cadence. All I really care about is 1) what’s the fastest I’ll go and still be able to pedal; 2) what’s the slowest I’ll be able to go with a smooth pedaling stroke; 3) what are the steps between gears; and 4) do I have my 27kph gear in the middle of the cluster on the big ring. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA